Teachers! need ADHD advice....

[Tuckins1]

Hi all...
I have recently met a little girl who is new to our school. She is in Kindergarden, so she is obviously still quite immature and doesn''t really know how to behave in school. She has the most severe attention deficit issues I have ever seen. She truly cannot focus on one thing for more than a few seconds...

Apparently her mother smoked crack when she was pregnant with her, and so the girl was born a true "crack baby". Her mother has since passed away and she is being raised by her grandmother. I''m sure grandma is doing the best she can, but she can only do so much.

The little girl will not sit still... She is a wanderer. We have found her all over the school. She even gets distractes in mid stream and will change direction from one thing to another...

The teacher has asked me if I have any good ideas on how to reach her, or how to keep her engaged in lessons. (Keep in mind that the teacher has 30 kids in her class, and one para-pro.) The little girl is actually bright, but you would never know it because she won''t keep a thought in her mind for more than a few seconds!!

Any ideas of what to do with this child?

 

[TooPatient]

I''m not a teacher. I don''t specialize in this area.

My brother was diagnosed with attention problems in pre-school (he is now 21) and I spent a year trying to teach FF''s daughter (7 at the time) to focus on stuff.

My brother was given different work than the other kids because he "couldn''t" do the same stuff they could. As he got older, he was given the same work but held to lower standards. Our mother wouldn''t even make him do his homework. If he got up and did something else it was okay because it was "harder for him".
(by the way, he was very good at stuff if he actually did it)
So now he is 21. Living at home with mom. Not working. Spends his days watching tv, playing games, eating, and driving where ever he feels like.


FFs daughter (A) was let to run around in school. No one told her to sit still. She was a mess.
I found out what she was interested in. And then we did it. A little at a time and increasing in length. That seemed to work pretty well. By the time her mother took her, she could sit down and do all of her homework (1/2 hour to an hour) with just some guidance to keep her on track.


Again, I''m not an expert. It worked for us so it might be worth a try. Puzzles, drawing, building, singing, whatever. If she likes it you might be able to get her to focus a little at a time.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 10/1/2009 2:58:46 PM
Author: TooPatient

FFs daughter (A) was let to run around in school. No one told her to sit still. She was a mess.
I found out what she was interested in. And then we did it. A little at a time and increasing in length. That seemed to work pretty well. By the time her mother took her, she could sit down and do all of her homework (1/2 hour to an hour) with just some guidance to keep her on track.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

This is probably more than ADHD. She might have an underlying neurological disorder.

Does she have an IEP? I will leave the classroom accommodations that work best to the teachers.

 

[Tuckins1]

Date: 10/1/2009 4:08:48 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
This is probably more than ADHD. She might have an underlying neurological disorder.


Does she have an IEP? I will leave the classroom accommodations that work best to the teachers.

No, she does not have an IEP. They do not like to test children for special education that young because children mature at different ages/paces... I do not doubt that there IS a neurological problem. I think it is way beyong ADHD, this girl truly can''t stop for 2 seconds...

She was playing a game with her class, left her class to go play a game with another class, got distracted on her way to that game, and veered toward another game....

I asked her her name and in the middle of saying her name she split off and started asking if she could go over here to play.... The teacher really does have to physically hold on to her at all times, because I swear she will be OUT THE DOOR in a matter of seconds!!! I am a special ed teacher, so I do know a lot about accommodations, but this is beyond my scope of advice!!

 

[CNOS128]

I used to teach special ed, but not such young kids. However -- my advice would be to reward her for doing the desired behaviors. I'm a big fan of the behavior chart, even though it's a lot of work for the teacher.

That is, if the girl is having trouble staying in her seat, make a chart that's broken up into small time segments, like 5 minutes blocks. For every 5 minutes she can stay in her seat, she gets a check mark. In the beginning, she gets a sticker or something at the end of the day for getting, say, 3 checkmarks. Then the next week increase it to 5 checkmarks. And so on.
Maybe if she goes a full week and gets a sticker everyday, at the end of the week she gets a bigger prize (something she wants), like candy or extra play time.

I've seen it work many, many times if teachers are consistent and kids understand the system. My ADHD kids really responded well to structure. But again, I never taught that age.


ETA: you can find lots of examples of behavior charts (and how to use them) online

 

[chiapet]

I''m an OT and work in a K-8 school. We have several children who are similar to the little girl that you''re describing. Some questions to consider: Have the student ever been in school or day care? If she''s not used a structured environment she might just need time to get adjusted. Have you tried a fidget toy (e.g., small bean bag, squeeze ball)? It might help her sit still if she has something to fidget with. Also, she might not be in the right setting. She might need a more restrictive classroom and possibly a paraprofessional.

I usually ask the parent or guardian to get a neurological exam and psycho-educational test for the child. As far as I know, they do those tests on kids that young and can diagnose ADHD at that age.

 

[KimberlyH]

This sounds like a lot more than a simple ADHD label to me.

I second the idea of a fidget that can be kept in her desk which she can use discreetly. I would build whole class time around sensory actiivites (movement to songs, Simon Says, etc.) so that she doesn''t feel singled out but recieves the input she so clearly needs; every 20 minutes or so I would find a way to get them up and moving -- I would extend the time as kids got older, but K is such a squirmy age/grade to begin with. I would also create a token system of sort for her, for every X amount of minute she attends she gets a token, when she earns so many she can take a walk around the school 1 time w/ the para-pro, or some other physical activity.

I am stunned that they don''t want to test children based on age; I understand children mature at different paces but when there is a child who clearly needs assistance to be a successful student I would think the sooner she gets help the better off she''ll be. Early intervention is fundamental and waiting seems counter-intuitive.

 

[chiapet]

[
I am stunned that they don''t want to test children based on age; I understand children mature at different paces but when there is a child who clearly needs assistance to be a successful student I would think the sooner she gets help the better off she''ll be. Early intervention is fundamental and waiting seems counter-intuitive. [/quote]

Well said, Kimberly.

 

[Tuckins1]

Date: 10/1/2009 9:39:55 PM
Author: chiapet
[

I am stunned that they don''t want to test children based on age; I understand children mature at different paces but when there is a child who clearly needs assistance to be a successful student I would think the sooner she gets help the better off she''ll be. Early intervention is fundamental and waiting seems counter-intuitive.

Well said, Kimberly.[/quote]

They don''t want to test for learning disabilities this young because not all kindergardeners or first graders have much experience with abc''s and 123''s before they come to school. They will however test for other things, like of there is suspicion of a cognitive impairment or other health impairments... This little girl needs neurological testing from a neurologist, not from a psychologist.

Thanks all for the suggestions. I will pass them on, since she is not my student.

 

[asscherisme]

Date: 10/1/2009 4:29:53 PM
Author: Tuckins1

Date: 10/1/2009 4:08:48 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
This is probably more than ADHD. She might have an underlying neurological disorder.


Does she have an IEP? I will leave the classroom accommodations that work best to the teachers.

No, she does not have an IEP. They do not like to test children for special education that young because children mature at different ages/paces... I do not doubt that there IS a neurological problem. I think it is way beyong ADHD, this girl truly can't stop for 2 seconds...

She was playing a game with her class, left her class to go play a game with another class, got distracted on her way to that game, and veered toward another game....

I asked her her name and in the middle of saying her name she split off and started asking if she could go over here to play.... The teacher really does have to physically hold on to her at all times, because I swear she will be OUT THE DOOR in a matter of seconds!!! I am a special ed teacher, so I do know a lot about accommodations, but this is beyond my scope of advice!!

That makes NO sense. My daughter and sons have had IEP's since preschool. Early intervention is so important. And having the IEPs gave them so much positive guidance. I shudder to think how much harder it would have been for my kids if they had not had early intervention.

Are you sure there is no way to get her evaluated? It maikes ZERO sense to me. I can't understand how that could be.

A teacher having to physcially restarain a child and the school system saying she is OK?

Her issues you have described plus her mothers drug use suggests this is not something she will simply outgrow.

This girl needs intervention and she needed it yesterday.

What a sad story regarding her mother. Her selfishness of exposing her baby to crack is heartbreaking.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 10/2/2009 10:27:03 AM
Author: Tuckins1

Date: 10/1/2009 9:39:55 PM

Author: chiapet

[


I am stunned that they don''t want to test children based on age; I understand children mature at different paces but when there is a child who clearly needs assistance to be a successful student I would think the sooner she gets help the better off she''ll be. Early intervention is fundamental and waiting seems counter-intuitive.

Well said, Kimberly.

They don''t want to test for learning disabilities this young because not all kindergardeners or first graders have much experience with abc''s and 123''s before they come to school. They will however test for other things, like of there is suspicion of a cognitive impairment or other health impairments... This little girl needs neurological testing from a neurologist, not from a psychologist.


Thanks all for the suggestions. I will pass them on, since she is not my student.

[/quote]

She will still need tests for cognitive and psychological function. She may have had a neurological evaluation you are not aware of. Sadly, with babies exposed to crack/cocaine, the behavioral traits you are describing are the long term consequences.

In kids with cognitive impairment, they don''t really qualify for the diagnosis of ADHD by the book. However, that diagnosis is the only way they can get treatment which is most often the most effective intervention. So often they will get the "label" to get the treatment. As a educator, you need to realize, that when you have a kid with a known exposure in utero with that diagnosis, you are going to be dealing with something far more severe.

Sorry I can''t help you more. I hope that she gets the intervention she needs. Stories like this break my heart.

 

[Tuckins1]

Date: 10/2/2009 11:31:50 AM
Author: LtlFirecracker

Date: 10/2/2009 10:27:03 AM

Author: Tuckins1

Date: 10/1/2009 9:39:55 PM


Author: chiapet


[



I am stunned that they don''t want to test children based on age; I understand children mature at different paces but when there is a child who clearly needs assistance to be a successful student I would think the sooner she gets help the better off she''ll be. Early intervention is fundamental and waiting seems counter-intuitive.

Well said, Kimberly.

They don''t want to test for learning disabilities this young because not all kindergardeners or first graders have much experience with abc''s and 123''s before they come to school. They will however test for other things, like of there is suspicion of a cognitive impairment or other health impairments... This little girl needs neurological testing from a neurologist, not from a psychologist.



Thanks all for the suggestions. I will pass them on, since she is not my student.

She will still need tests for cognitive and psychological function. She may have had a neurological evaluation you are not aware of. Sadly, with babies exposed to crack/cocaine, the behavioral traits you are describing are the long term consequences.


In kids with cognitive impairment, they don''t really qualify for the diagnosis of ADHD by the book. However, that diagnosis is the only way they can get treatment which is most often the most effective intervention. So often they will get the ''label'' to get the treatment. As a educator, you need to realize, that when you have a kid with a known exposure in utero with that diagnosis, you are going to be dealing with something far more severe.


Sorry I can''t help you more. I hope that she gets the intervention she needs. Stories like this break my heart.

[/quote]

I really don''t know if there has been any kind of diagnosis, because communication with the family is almost non-existent... I''m positive that once she gets a little older she WILL be referred, and she WILL qualify, and she WILL be one of my students, so I might as well try to help her out now so she has some sort of intervention early on.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We have kindergarteners who are labelled Developmentally Delayed and have IEP''s. They have to be evaluated by age 8 to designate a new category if they still qualify for services at that point. So this child''s teacher needs to refer her. It would be terrible for her to have to wait to qualify as LD when the reality is that she can''t hold anything in memory because of the attention issues. I agree that she needs medical evaluation, but the schools can still assess and determine of she is delayed and start serving her.

 

[Tuckins1]

Date: 10/2/2009 9:31:49 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
We have kindergarteners who are labelled Developmentally Delayed and have IEP's. They have to be evaluated by age 8 to designate a new category if they still qualify for services at that point. So this child's teacher needs to refer her. It would be terrible for her to have to wait to qualify as LD when the reality is that she can't hold anything in memory because of the attention issues. I agree that she needs medical evaluation, but the schools can still assess and determine of she is delayed and start serving her.

They have tried to refer kindergardeners. They will not test them. I am hoping that we can convince Grandma to have her evaluated by a physician. That way, if the physician report says that there is an issue, she will HAVE to be evaluated and will be placed in the appropriate environment to help her.

ETA- This is a charter school. We do not have self contained classrooms. We also do not have ANY CI or DD students. We do not have the resources to provide those services right now. Believe me, this is a point of contention between myself and the administrators. I am actually afraid to state in the IEP that a student needs a different placement/service that we do not provide... That would mean the school has to pay for them to go somewhere else, or hire another teacher. If I cost them that kind of money, guess who won't be hired back next year? It's a politics game...

 

[luv2sparkle]

I am just a mom, but I did have a son with ADD. This little girl sounds like she needs to be in a special class, and maybe not start school for another year.
I would also ask that she not be given any sugar at all, which does seem to affect some kids and make it worse.

It sounds like she needs one on one help. I am sure it will be hard to find. I feel for her grandma, it will be a long difficult road ahead.

 

[KimberlyH]

Tuckins, it seems the testing subject is a senstive on for you. "They" was directed at the parents first, their child, their responsibility, and the school/district second, who often pick up the slack when parents don''t advocate for their own child.

I hope some of the suggestions you have recieved regarding things that can be implemented in the classroom will help this litle girl and her teacher.

 

[merrymunky]

CHILD INITIATED LEARNING! As someone else mentioned...if that child has some sort of special interest, base their work around it. Everyday things can be adapted into structured lessons.

I also agree that the sensory input should be stepped up a gear. Is there a special toy/teddy/item this girl can have to cuddle or hold throughout the day. Sometimes just having one thing of their own calms them.

Reward charts for sitting sensibly, or completing a small portion of learning work well. We have a boy with Autism who is very unfocussed and flighty. We have an "I am working for..." chart. He chooses which activity he wants to work for and then has to earn 3 tokens before he can have that special reward activity.

Stickers work well also. Don't expect them to particiapte for the duration of a lesson. Their work should be broken into much shorter periods with an INSTANT reward if they complete a task. Even 5 or 10 minutes of work then a 5 minute reward, and repeat all day as necessary.



Oh and also? Sounds obvious but a firm "NO!" when they are doing something they are not supposed to be doing. Conistency is key. If everyone in contact with her follows the same protocol when dealing with her it will have a great impact. If a child recieves mixed messages from different adults it will unsettle them. Everyone should have clear expectations of how they want the child to behave throughout the day and all respond in the same way to her. If you say no, mean it. If you threaten a sanction, carry it through. It soon sticks with them.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

If Grandma puts something in writing requesting an evaluation, doesn't the law say you have to test any child over the age of three for learning disabilities? Why couldn't a teacher refer them for testing?

There is nothing that states that the school evaluation should only take place after a medical evaluation. Often, both are done at the same time.

 

[swimmer]

This is one of the really interesting situations that really differs by state and of course by the charter school funding laws of each state. Kudos to you Tuckins for thinking proactively. Can you search your state''s DYS/DSS/Early intervention services for something for this child? Do you have a director of SPED or a services coordinator who would bring in the Grandmother and have a planning meeting?

In many states there are early intervention OTs who go to the home starting as early as possible (days old sometimes) in order to help with some of the very developmental delays you are looking at right now. Perhaps she is already getting these services and they could be expanded? I would try to push the funding issue out of your mind for now, you could very possibly get state funded intervention for her that saves your school, or if she is provided with an advocate, they would most likely relocate her to a school that can demonstrate a history of meeting the needs of kids in her situation. Who can you talk to in your school about long term planning/problem solving?

I don''t think that folks who are outraged at her not being assessed are meaning at all to make you feel attacked, but it is SHOCKING and ALARMING that there is a policy in place at your school to not test until the student is older. Just a brief flit through IDEA legislation will show you a dozen ways that this position is totally illegal. Dozens of assessments exist for children under the age of 2. Hundreds for the pre-literate. If we had to wait for students to be literate, some would never get tested... I really hope for your school that this policy of non-intervention is not written down. They could lose both state and federal funding, not to mention the charter. I''m not writing this to frighten you, and have really been thinking about what to say here, but it is illegal to not assess and develop a plan for a child that has demonstrated profound and pervasive behavioral and intellectual delays. Getting her on a 504 plan will help to get funding from the govt for her meeting her needs. Waiting for her to get older is waiting for her to fall further behind, you of course know this all too well, and the day she shows up in your class, still with no plan for her educational success and no resources identified to help, will be a sad day for you, for her, and for all of your other students. Good Luck Tuckins, it is not your fault that your school is not prepared for this child. But it looks like it has become your business.

-sidebar, I have always wondered what charter schools would do with the public school''s most expensive students, the non-verbal, physically limited kids who need 2 full time aides, I''m getting a more clear picture here- those kids just can not go to charter schools? As more and more charter schools open, what will happen to the services for these kids? I really wonder.

Thank you for caring so much about this student, even before she is your own Tuckins.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ditto to Swimmer on the fact that it is illegal for the school to say they won''t test a kindergartener. The key is to get the parent (grandmother) to put a request in writing. Then they have to do it. And I agree that she is too young to diagnose LD since she hasn''t been working on academics for more than a few weeks. But she can be placed Developmentally Delayed if she qualifies.

My child has been in a charter school for 8 years, so I am very aware of the realistic limitations in that situation. This child definitely needs medical intervention, because her diagnosis probably will be medical (such as ADHD). If the grandmother can get that diagnosis and it is found that she is behind in learning, then she can be placed as Other Health Impaired. She may need medication or something, so it is very important that the family pursues the medical evaluation. And, I will say that not all kids will fit in a charter school. Sometimes the regular public schools have more services to offer when the challenges are more severe.