So my recent lab sapphire purchase is glass

[YadaYadaYada]

I bought what was described as a lab pink sapphire antique ring in rose gold recently off Etsy. The setting was a delicate tower setting so I got in touch with Ivy and Rose to reset into one of their lovely settings. I had also somehow chipped the stone despite being super careful with it. Anyways mailed it out Monday with tracking and insurance and got an email yesterday from Sara at Ivy.

They can't polish the chip out because the stone is glass. GLASS. Oh my, I am so upset, luckily I paid with a credit card, I have also fired off an email to the shop I bought the ring from to inform them of this.

This all transpired before I found out my husband was losing his overtime so I already have funds set aside for this. I will be getting a refund whether to shop is agreeable or if I have to file a SNAD with the credit card.

Anyways live and learn.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/243105..._query=Pink+sapphire&ref=shop_items_search_19

 

[OoohShiny]

Have you contacted the vendor? If so, what have they said?

You must leave feedback on Etsy once you have gone through that process, so others do not get ripped off!

 

[msop04]

OMG! What did the Etsy dealer have to say about this?? Shameful...

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I haven't heard back yet AND to top it off I already left them positive feedback! Of course this was before I found out.

Can you edit a review on Etsy?

 

[OoohShiny]

Might be worth contacting Etsy themselves, as if there is fraud involved, I would hope they would be interested in stamping it out as it reflects badly on Etsy's name.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I just got a response from the Etsy vendor:

"Thanks for following up on your order!

We are so sorry to hear this. We are very shocked to find out that a reputable jeweler told you that the stone is glass. Could you ask them how they came to that determination?

We were able to determine the pink stone was a lab created sapphire based on several tests. Using our refractometer, we were able to determine the refractive index was 1.762, which indicates corundum. In addition, the stone had a birefringence of .008. Under magnification, the stone showed little wear, due to its high hardness. Testing the stone with our polariscope gave us another verification of the stones identity, that it is doubly refractive.

Comparatively, glass often shows surface wear due to its low hardness along with rounded facet junctions. In addition, in the polariscope, glass has a singly refractive nature.

We stand behind our pieces 100%. We are very confused that a reputable jeweler would say this stone is glass. Do they have training in gemology? Many jewelers are not also gemologists, and may not having the adequate training to identify gemstones.

We are also surprised to hear your jeweler does not polish glass stones! We often have our glass stones polished by our jeweler.

I hope all that information makes sense and please feel free to ask us any questions you may have! Again, we are so sorry for any inconvenience".

I immediately called Sara at Ivy and Rose, although I know that they are reputable and 100% believe them that this is glass, I have to have an educated response to the original vendor.

If I'm being honest though, Sara is going above and beyond, she shouldn't be in this position and neither should I. They will end up paying more in bad word of mouth than if they had just refunded me like I requested.

 

[Arcadian]

Did you post this in colored stones area? According to what I read, this isn't sold as lab created but as a natural unheated stone.
*edit*
Interesting, I see your response but also see this from the link you posted.

The center stone of this a unheated Ceylon sapphire.

did they change the stone from the description?

Yes it does happen, happened to a very well known vendor some years ago. My question to you is did you talk to the vendor and tell her what was told to you about the stone? and, what is her response to it?

I believe it to be a problem (of course !!) but IMO, I also believe in giving the vendor a chance to give some input too and rectify this.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Hey Arcadian,

I didn't post this on colored stones maybe because I frequent Hangout more, it was just out of habit I guess.

The pink sapphire I bought was listed as lab created in the listing (I haven't posted a link to the ring I bought only to Yvonne Raley's ring because I am considering that one if the ring I have is indeed glass).

I have been in contact with the vendor who sold me the stone, their response is above, they are questioning how reputable the jeweler is that has the ring (I haven't given them any names). However I find them suggesting that they could buff out the chip in the stone to be asinine, like they expect me to keep this and have the chip buffed out. They had the audacity to question Ivy and Rose because they don't buff out glass. A GLASS STONE. I didn't buy a glass stone, I was happy buying. A lab created stone, not a piece of colored glass.

If Ivy and Rose come back and confirm this is glass then I will email the original vendor back and give them one last chance to issue a refund. If they refuse then I'm going to my credit card company for a charge back.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

This is the listing for the stone I bought that Ivy and Rose have identified as glass:

 

[Arcadian]

Hey Arcadian,

I didn't post this on colored stones maybe because I frequent Hangout more, it was just out of habit I guess.

The pink sapphire I bought was listed as lab created in the listing (I haven't posted a link to the ring I bought only to Yvonne Raley's ring because I am considering that one if the ring I have is indeed glass).

I have been in contact with the vendor who sold me the stone, their response is above, they are questioning how reputable the jeweler is that has the ring (I haven't given them any names). However I find them suggesting that they could buff out the chip in the stone to be asinine, like they expect me to keep this and have the chip buffed out. They had the audacity to question Ivy and Rose because they don't buff out glass. A GLASS STONE. I didn't buy a glass stone, I was happy buying. A lab created stone, not a piece of colored glass.

If Ivy and Rose come back and confirm this is glass then I will email the original vendor back and give them one last chance to issue a refund. If they refuse then I'm going to my credit card company for a charge back.

Oooo ok, I was confused then!!! My apologies because I didn't get what was happening.


Based on what the vendor is saying, she doesn't want to give you a refund. I would start the process with your credit card company, and, Start with contact with Etsy. https://www.etsy.com/help/article/486. Heck they got a facebook page, I would tell them about it there too, link to the ring that you purchased, and also the email you got from the vendor. I've heard that Etsy is iffy on what they will or won't do unlike ebay.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Oooo ok, I was confused then!!! My apologies because I didn't get what was happening.


Based on what the vendor is saying, she doesn't want to give you a refund. I would start the process with your credit card company, and, Start with contact with Etsy. https://www.etsy.com/help/article/486. Heck they got a facebook page, I would tell them about it there too, link to the ring that you purchased, and also the email you got from the vendor. I've heard that Etsy is iffy on what they will or won't do unlike ebay.

No, it's my bad I shouldn't have posted Yvonne's ring, that is confusing I think.

In any case though even if Etsy doesn't want to get involved I should be protected with my credit card right?

 

[BlingObsession]

I was also confused - the way I read this - you were saying the stone you bought from Yvonne was glass. Important to read the whole thread, I guess.

 

[Arkteia]

Sometimes even very educated gemologists make mistakes (I once met a person who thought an H(a) Burmese ruby was an unheated Thai ruby, but it was years ago). So between one jeweler and another, it is impossible to discover the truth. Even if glass is easy to tell from synthetic corundum. Only AGL cert will be a proof.

I would tell them that I am going to send the stone to AGL if they insist it is synthetic, but AGL says it is glass, they (etsy vendor) will bear full responsibility for selling glass, with posts, names, reports to Etsy, etc. My experience is, usually vendors usually do not mind taking the item back before you send it to AGL or GIA, they don't want negative reviews or poor reputation.

I assume it is not difficult to tell glass from synthetic corundum, but between one jeweler and another, it is impossible to prove anything. One says, "I see the bubbles", the other, "we have been in the business for 80 years, blah, blah, blah". If you really want Etsy vendor to take it back and refund, be prepared to send it to AGL.

 

[mochiko42]

I was also confused - the way I read this - you were saying the stone you bought from Yvonne was glass. Important to read the whole thread, I guess.

Ditto. I was confused too as I know Yvonne doesn't sell lab created gems.

 

[Arcadian]

No, it's my bad I shouldn't have posted Yvonne's ring, that is confusing I think.

In any case though even if Etsy doesn't want to get involved I should be protected with my credit card right?

Yep. Because depending on the card and all kinds of other crap, it can be a long and disgusting process at times and you're going to likely need the correct paperwork to prove fraud. CC's take that seriously as they can lose money in the process.

Always try to work it out before it reaches that point but its not looking so good.

I would respond back to tell her all you want is a refund on the purchase because its not as described. And that if she can't honor that, then you have to start the proceedings to get it back through other means. I'd give her a last chance to do whats right. Don't get into any other discussions other than that because it may not go well.

Lab grown sapphire is definitely not glass. RI values will be different. Anything can chip, but if the people you're working with know how glass chips, and are 100% certain its glass, ask them how they know and if they'd be willing to submit something in writing stating that fact. If they're willing to do it, even better.

Let me ask; who has the ring right now?

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Sorry about the confusion!

Arkteia, there is no way I'm going to the extra trouble to send this to AGL. I've already gone through the time and expense of sending this to Chicago to be reset. They don't have to take my word or Ivy and Rose but if it's glass I'm getting refunded one way or another.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Yep. Because depending on the card and all kinds of other crap, it can be a long and disgusting process at times and you're going to likely need the correct paperwork to prove fraud. CC's take that seriously as they can lose money in the process.

Always try to work it out before it reaches that point but its not looking so good.

I would respond back to tell her all you want is a refund on the purchase because its not as described. And that if she can't honor that, then you have to start the proceedings to get it back through other means. I'd give her a last chance to do whats right. Don't get into any other discussions other than that because it may not go well.

Lab grown sapphire is definitely not glass. RI values will be different. Anything can chip, but if the people you're working with know how glass chips, and are 100% certain its glass, ask them how they know and if they'd be willing to submit something in writing stating that fact. If they're willing to do it, even better.

Let me ask; who has the ring right now?

I'm totally giving them a chance to rectify the situation but I'm waiting on Ivy and Rose to get back to me as a double confirmation of their findings. That's who has the ring, Ivy and Rose in Chicago, I sent it to them to be reset since the original setting the stone was in is too delicate for everyday wear.

So to summarize as of right now I'm waiting to hear back from Sara at Ivy and Rose to confirm it is glass and then email the original vendor to demand a refund. Demand because at that point done negotiating, if it's glass they need to accept it and issue the refund and eat the loss.

 

[Karl_K]

That totally stinks that it is not what you paid for.
My question is why have a round lab sapphire reset when buying a beautiful freshly cut one is under $3?

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Hey Karl,

I wasn't planning on having it reset originally, I bought it as an antique ring to wear as is. So kind of ignorance on my part that I didn't realize how delicate the setting would be.

I haven't heard from Ivy and Rose but I will keep you guys in the loop!

 

[Karl_K]

ok
I guess what I was really wondering is why your new ring maker didn't recommend just getting a new stone. Even with b&m prices a new stone should have been less than the cost of shipping(if needed) and unmounting the stone.
Then if the ring had been as advertised you could have sold it intact to someone or just kept it for occasional wear.

 

[Arkteia]

Sorry about the confusion!

Arkteia, there is no way I'm going to the extra trouble to send this to AGL. I've already gone through the time and expense of sending this to Chicago to be reset. They don't have to take my word or Ivy and Rose but if it's glass I'm getting refunded one way or another.

I am not pushing you to send it to AGL. My experience has been, if there is any concern (and I bet they perfectly well know what they are selling), usually even the threat to send it to a reputable gemology lab is enough because public exposure is a big issue.

Especially if you sell antique items - while I can imagine that a gem cutter may make an honest mistake because there are so many new methods of enhancing colors (and this is why I try to certify everything before it is set, just because settings cost a lot), Internet is full of stories about antique dealers knowingly switching stones, not disclosing later repairs, etc.

What surprised me in their answer was: 1) getting into a lengthy explanation as to how they decided it was synthetic corundum and not glass, and then, 2) saying that a chipped piece of glass could be easily repolished. Does it mean that if it can not be repolished, it must be corundum, or precisely the way I understood it, "why can't they repolish glass, it is so easy?"

Seriously, what is this phrase supposed to mean? "We are also surprised to hear your jeweler does not polish glass stones! We often have our glass stones polished by our jeweler."

(Do they admit it is glass?)

 

[Squizabel]

Karl is making a good point. Created sapphires can be very beautiful but are worth literally a few dollars. I bought a nicely cut one recently for less than the cost of my lunch that day. In fairness to Ivy and Rose, they might have assumed the piece and stone had sentimental value. I have had stones set for more than the cost of buying a whole new piece for this reason.

The more pertinent issue IMO is the piece was too flimsy to be worn. You should have got a refund based on that alone. Definitely a shady sounding seller.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I am not pushing you to send it to AGL. My experience has been, if there is any concern (and I bet they perfectly well know what they are selling), usually even the threat to send it to a reputable gemology lab is enough because public exposure is a big issue.

Especially if you sell antique items - while I can imagine that a gem cutter may make an honest mistake because there are so many new methods of enhancing colors (and this is why I try to certify everything before it is set, just because settings cost a lot), Internet is full of stories about antique dealers knowingly switching stones, not disclosing later repairs, etc.

What surprised me in their answer was: 1) getting into a lengthy explanation as to how they decided it was synthetic corundum and not glass, and then, 2) saying that a chipped piece of glass could be easily repolished. Does it mean that if it can not be repolished, it must be corundum, or precisely the way I understood it, "why can't they repolish glass, it is so easy?"

Seriously, what is this phrase supposed to mean? "We are also surprised to hear your jeweler does not polish glass stones! We often have our glass stones polished by our jeweler."

(Do they admit it is glass?)

If I came off snippy in my response I totally apologize!

And I agree that their response was immediate and overly thorough, they also came off a bit condescending, they assume that the jeweler I use is not reputable because they came to a different conclusion.

Perhaps they know it is glass and the chances of the average Joe figuring this out would be nil and therefore worth the risk? I don't know, so far it's a real mystery but I have learned a lesson from this.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I have to say Ivy and Rose has been wonderful to work with and they did offer to set the stone even still if I wanted. It does have a sentimental meaning to me because my husband actually gave it to me even though I picked it out for a significant occasion.

However the issue now is that I did not set out to buy glass so if that's what it is, sentimental or not, it's going back.

 

[Arkteia]

Karl is making a good point. Created sapphires can be very beautiful but are worth literally a few dollars. I bought a nicely cut one recently for less than the cost of my lunch that day. In fairness to Ivy and Rose, they might have assumed the piece and stone had sentimental value. I have had stones set for more than the cost of buying a whole new piece for this reason.

The more pertinent issue IMO is the piece was too flimsy to be worn. You should have got a refund based on that alone. Definitely a shady sounding seller.

Does the age of the synthetic add any value? "Antique" means 1917 or earlier, the time when synthetic sapphires just emerged on the market. It was a new method, invention, history. The synthetics that flooded the market in early 2000-es probably don't cost anything but it is another matter. But I would assume that there is a difference in the timepiece made in 1917 with an authentic synthetic corundum created by Czochralski process (pretty new at that time) and something where an original stone has been replaced by later glass, or even the glass of that period. (Or, if it belongs to 1915, as the vendor stated, the sapphire was made by Verneuil process, the original one!). Now first glass jewelry was made 3500 years ago (I checked), and even Greek jewelry of 2 A.D. with glass stones costs a lot because it is a period piece. However, glass in jewelry made 100 years ago costs nothing.

 

[Karl_K]

Does the age of the synthetic add any value?

As a piece of jewelry yes maybe, but not the stone loose by itself.
In other words an old stone outside its original setting is worth the same as any other created sapphire. Not a lot.
It works the same for glass, next to nothing outside the setting, potentially more as part of one.

 

[kgizo]

If it isn't too late to edit your post you may want to delete the pic and question about Yvonne's ring and start a separate thread for that. I also thought you were talking about Yvonne's ring and about had a heart attack bc I own a few Yvonne stones.
Hope the fraud situation is resolved to your satisfaction quickly!

 

[YadaYadaYada]

If it isn't too late to edit your post you may want to delete the pic and question about Yvonne's ring and start a separate thread for that. I also thought you were talking about Yvonne's ring and about had a heart attack bc I own a few Yvonne stones.
Hope the fraud situation is resolved to your satisfaction quickly!

I couldn't edit it so I reported it. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * The more pertinent issue IMO is the piece was too flimsy to be worn. You should have got a refund based on that alone. Definitely a shady sounding seller.

The etsy listing included several pictures of the ring from different angles (plus, a hand shot) & also gave the weight of the ring in grams. If the listed gram weight of the ring was accurate, I think it would tough to convince a credit card company to issue a charge-back for this reason. Especially since Stephanie posted positive feedback, before Ilya advised her that the stone is glass.

Stephanie, I hope you get a speedy resolution!

 

[YadaYadaYada]

The etsy listing included several pictures of the ring from different angles (plus, a hand shot) & also gave the weight of the ring in grams. If the listed gram weight of the ring was accurate, I think it would tough to convince a credit card company to issue a charge-back for this reason. Especially since Stephanie posted positive feedback, before Ilya advised her that the stone is glass.

Stephanie, I hope you get a speedy resolution!

Thanks Molly! Don't you think though that I still have a good case for a refund since there is a specific description that states that the stone has the same "composition and properties as a natural gem'? I mean, glass is not going to fit that description. Also when I measured the stone before mailing it out (but after my review) my husband and I measured 6mm not the 8mm that the listing claims.

ETA: It's not the cost that bothers me as much as the possibility that they knew it was not a lab stone.