Home Small children telling the truth

[softly softly]

In light of recent threads about dealing with pregnancy, babies and small children and all the wonderful advice and insight these have garnered, I thought I would throw this one out there and see if I can get some perspective on this.

I have two small children aged 4.5 and 3, and until recently have never had any issues with them telling the truth (apart from the elaborate imaginative play scenarios the 3yr old likes to engage in, but I consider this a healthy part of her development). I have a friend who lives around the corner and who has a 3yr old son who we see regularly for play dates. Recently her son has developed the habit of saying things that are quite obviously lies and which are designed to either deflect blame for any wrong doing or, in some cases, to cause mischief.

At first it was just simply along the lines of ''it wasn''t me, I didn''t do it'', which I guess is harmless enough, and probably understandable, but he would generally try to deny something after just being caught in the act. Then he started trying to shift blame, again in situations where he was the obvious culprit. Lately though, he has started to ''tell tales'' about other children about things which clearly have never taken place with the (as far as I can tell) intent to get that child into trouble.

For example, last week I was at my friend''s house and while we were feeding the kids lunch she noticed what looked like a scratch on her son''s cheek. When she asked him about it he said that my 4 year old scratched him. I asked my son if this was true and he denied it. Two minutes later this proved true when my friend wiped her son''s face and the scratch turned out to be a food stain. My friend seems pretty unconcerned by this behaviour, which is certainly her right as a parent, but it''s starting to bother me because I am now noticing that my son is starting to emulate his friend. At the moment it mostly consists of him denying doing something which he generally confesses to after further questioning, but I''m bothered by this. I really, really don''t like lying and have been telling my son that lying about a misdeed is wrong, and that owning up to it is the right thing to do, even if it means he will be punished.

However, I''m wondering if I''m over reacting. Is telling the odd fib merely a normal part of childhood development? And if he sees his friend doing this with little or no consequence how do I teach him that it is wrong?

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I''m not a parent, but I think the advice here can be rather general...

Regardless of the age of children, if you''re uncomfortable with their friends being bad influences on them then you should limit or end the time they spend together. It doesn''t make you mean, but rather proactive. If this child is being allowed to "lie" without repermand on his parental end, then you have to do double time yours. If they are playing together, then perhaps you need to closely monitor it so you can see for yourself what exactly is going on.

 

[neatfreak]

I think this is potentially a normal part of "limit testing" behavior. Personally I think it''s appropriate to sit them down when caught in a lie and talk to them about why lies aren''t good, how lies can hurt people, etc. And don''t give them a crazy reaction-that is what they are looking for. Stay calm, reprimand a little, and they''ll get bored with it and move on.

But if it continues and your friend''s son is a bad influence-spend less time with them.

 

[nycbkgirl]

i have a 4 yr old niece and ive noticed some of these lying episodes coming up (minor ones tho)...for example ...she wants to eat some snacks and i ask her if she already had dinner and she says yes and i ask did ur mom let u have snacks and she says yes...so i say ok i will call her now and ask...she says...nooooooooo dont do that!....so she gets caught in her lies and then repremanded and doesnt get what she initially wanted. s oi think catching them on it and dealing with it one issue at a time will help as time goes on...she doesnt do it as often anymore...sometimes she just keeps quiet and doesnt answer (when the answer wont benefit her lol)

 

[atroop711]

as a parent of a 9yr old, 5yr old and 8mo old I'm with you. I've been through this with my older daughter. She's had playdates where the kids act out in a way I don't find acceptable (telling lies, calling others mean names, hitting , screaming, biting, ect). Many kids go through this BUT doesn't mean it's acceptable. I may be 41yr old but I'm old school in my parenting compared to many others who are very laid back and let their kids do as the please. They allow them hit others, make others cry by pushing, telling lies, ect ( and the parent completely ignores and smiles). Many also say OH THAT'S WHAT KIDS DO. I disagree...misbehavior is just that and shouldn't be allowed because of their age. I find that a lot of these parents that I know that are like this want to be their child's friend. I think (and this is my opinion) parents should be parents and not worry about being their best bud.

If you are uncomfortable with the way a child is around your child, you can just end those playdates with that particular child especially if you are seeing your child mimicking this behavior. I ended all playdates with this little girl in my building since she was NASTY. She would boss my daughter and other kids around. If they didn't do what she wanted she throw a hissy fit and would push them. She would also tell her mom she hated her, she was the meanest mom ever and called her mom stupid. Mind you she was only 4 yrs old. HELL NO....I stopped these playdates ASAP. I noticed that my daughter started whining when she wasn't getting her way, being mean to her little sister. I had a talk with her immediately and told her this is not acceptable and respectful behavior.

Kids will test limits with fibs, ect. You just need to nip it in the bud as soon as it happens and explain. I have lots of talks and do lots of explaining to my kids

 

[softly softly]

atroop711 I think you are right, we are getting to the point with this little boy where I''m going to have to limit or stop contact as he displays many of the behaviours you mentioned - biting, hitting, scratching and yelling. It''s not that his mother turns a blind eye, but this child does not seem to be responding to her attempts to discipline him and there are things he does that sometimes go unchecked because we don''t see them. These are generally the things my son will mimic from time to time which I guess is part of boundary testing, but I try very hard to make sure he knows it is never acceptable to hit, kick, bite, scratch or scream at his sister or any other child. Another issue has been that whenever we get our kids together we generally find ourselves breaking up fights and arguments which to me suggests they are not playing well together so there is little point in continuing with the play dates.

However stopping contact will probably be easier said than done as we live so close and have been in the habit of seeing each other so regularly as both our husbands travel for work. I really don''t want to tell my friend that I find her son''s behaviour so unacceptable I don''t want him around my son. However I also don''t want my son continuing to

Neat I agree with you about not giving the crazy reaction. So far I when I have suspected he is not telling the truth about something I have just questioned him about it again and when he has admitted the truth I have spoken to him about how upsetting and hurtful lies can be and how much better it is to tell the truth. Fortunately he is at an age where I can talk to him and he will listen and take things on board. I think I will also talk to his kindergarten (pre-school) teacher and ask if ''telling the truth'' is a topic she addresses in her lessons, or if she can suggest any other approaches.

 

[D&T]

hmmm we had to deal with this just recently about two months ago. It kind of shocked us, because we didn''t know our three year old knew how to lie, of course this came from her mirroring her older day care friends. We immediately took action as to a time out lesson, if it didn''t get better we started taking priveledged items away. When she would tell us the truth about something, we did not over react nor did we punished her so my DD knew that either time out or something gets taken away from her if she lied, so when she does something for the last two months she would say "mom did I tell the truth or did I lie" so I think she understands what lying is now. I don''t think you are over reacting, and its good to start early imo to instill honesty in a child.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Honestly, I don''t think it is a big deal. My girls often, when asked, say the other one did something. Like if I ask ''Who tore this book", my 3 year old will almost 100% of the time blame it on her older sister. My 5 year old rarely tears a book, so I know to take what she says with a grain. My older daughter is mostly pretty honest.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 7/6/2009 9:43:38 AM
Author: neatfreak
I think this is potentially a normal part of ''limit testing'' behavior. Personally I think it''s appropriate to sit them down when caught in a lie and talk to them about why lies aren''t good, how lies can hurt people, etc. And don''t give them a crazy reaction-that is what they are looking for. Stay calm, reprimand a little, and they''ll get bored with it and move on.

But if it continues and your friend''s son is a bad influence-spend less time with them.

I agree with this.

 

[D2B]

For most part it is part of normal development, they are still figuring out what is truth, what is their imagination and what is wisful thinking at the age of 3-5. I mean, we encourage them to listen to made up stories and have an active imagination and then for them a barrier comes up sometimes when to adults they lie.

I have tried not to make a big deal out of it when my DS was little, let him know that I want the truth, ie what actually happend and tried to explain the diference between imagination, making things up for fun and lieing and the consequences. Of course, I think intent is a big one, you know your child and if it likely to be malicious lies to get out of trouble or normal developmental stuff. i would never tolerate maliscious lies that would hurt someones feelings, get someone else in trouble etc.

db

 

[softly softly]

Date: 7/6/2009 6:30:21 PM
Author: D2B
For most part it is part of normal development, they are still figuring out what is truth, what is their imagination and what is wisful thinking at the age of 3-5. I mean, we encourage them to listen to made up stories and have an active imagination and then for them a barrier comes up sometimes when to adults they lie.


I have tried not to make a big deal out of it when my DS was little, let him know that I want the truth, ie what actually happend and tried to explain the diference between imagination, making things up for fun and lieing and the consequences. Of course, I think intent is a big one, you know your child and if it likely to be malicious lies to get out of trouble or normal developmental stuff. i would never tolerate maliscious lies that would hurt someones feelings, get someone else in trouble etc.


db

db you have hit the nail on the head!! It is was definitely the malicious intent this little boy appeared to display that bothered me. You make a very good point about distingushing intent.

 

[whitby_2773]

hi softly softly

i''ve been a kids'' psychologist for many years, so here''s a cross section of the sort of thing i''d have said to a parent who came to me with the same issue...

children tell the truth and tell lies for completely different reasons - and they''re strikingly similar to the reasons adults tell lies and tell the truth.

kids are developing individuals, and lies are part boundary testing or, if found to be successful, an easy tool to improve one''s situation. like - "i will get in trouble if i tell the truth, but if i lie i will be spared punishment/discomfort" or "if i tell a lie about so and so, he may be punished and i may gain some reward". obviously kids don''t think in this sort of advanced language, or have this level of self awareness, but they understand plenty about maximizing their own position, disadvantaging the competition when it comes to gaining a goal (mom''s affection/attention, the most desired toy, praise, extra food and so on), and manipulating their situation.

one of the basic tests for ''sanity'' was, historically, to test that a person will ''always improve their own position''. for instance, if i''m standing on burning asphalt, i''ll move, or go put shoes on, or something similar. if i''m hungry, i''ll go and eat. if something is hurting me, i''ll move away from it or try to remove it. these are basic biological, evolutionary laws, and when children lie they''re often exhibiting their ''baby animal'' nature in its most undiluted form; they''re trying to maximize, or improve, their position. they''re making sure their needs (be it a valid or invalid need!) are met and their position in society is as high as possible. maximizing one''s position in a social group is one of the ways to ensure survival, and it''s an instinct with which we''re all born. there''s nothing wrong with the instinct - it''s the METHOD that needs refining.

so firstly, if it becomes apparent that lying doesn''t improve a child''s position in his social group (ie instead of getting the desired toy, he''s sent to his room to sit alone for an hour), kids will generally learn that this is not an effective tool. this is what training and good parenting is all about. leaving a child to sort it out by himself generally only leads to ''more of the same'' as a child will persist with the tools he has found effective till they prove ineffective. and lying is such an easy tool. so it''s not too early to teach a child that ''this tool is a bad one and won''t get you what you want'' - which is where discovering a child in a lie and responding immediately is the best approach.

however, it''s not always possible to be ''right there'' at all times, which is where teaching a child to tell the truth is essential. telling the truth is a much more advanced skill as it''s not nearly so instinctual. telling the truth is often uncomfortable, involves taking the risk of incurring displeasure or discomfort, and thereby requires an act absolutely contrary to ''maximizing one''s comfort or position in society''. one of the best excuses to use with children is a simple one rarely utilized by parents: "because it''s what we/our family does." this hooks into a child''s need to identify with and be part of a group. it also strengthens a child''s identity and picture of self. "because i said so" is rarely effective, whereas "because it''s what we do" has all sorts of strengthening subtexts that will play into numerous needs of the child in question. this can be paired with "we tell the truth because....it pleases mommy and daddy/it''s good for your heart (touch a small child''s tummy/chest and tickle when saying this)/because it makes the world a better place/because good people tell the truth..." or any other reason you can think of which will make sense to your child. long explanations are generally less effective than something short which your child can internalize. as your child ages, so the explanations can become longer and more esoteric. as a child ages you can explain the concepts or morality, integrity, and goodness.

so softly softly - the long and the short of it is - don''t ignore it and hope it will go away; the only thing this teaches your child is that - either - you''re not capable of picking up on a deception and so can be manipulated (at that point you may as well just buy your child a badge which says "I''m in charge of this family"!), or that lying is ok and an effective tool. you can actually reinforce deception as a behavior, which is clearly not your goal.

if you decide you no longer wish your child to play with the child who seems to be modeling this behavior, do explain to your child WHY. this will send a huge message to your child (ie "children who lie lose their friends and we stay away from people who practice deceit"). your child is too young to clearly define that a behavior which is deemed acceptable to his peer is unacceptable to him; this is simply too much to ask. while your child may already be a more truthful child, that behavior can be lost or weakened by the confusion of seeing a peer make social progress (parental attention/praise/sympathy/etc) or gain physical advantages (toys/food) by a behavior your child has been taught to avoid. in other words - your child can be lured into lying by the apparent rewards gained by deceit.

keep it simple, keep it uniform, keep it repetitive, and build on it as your child ages. and most of all - make sure you always tell the truth; this is the biggest inducement a child can have.

good luck and good parenting!

 

[softly softly]

Thank you for taking the time to respond Whitby (I was hoping to hear from you), your advice and insight are very helpful.

Unfortunately this is also a situation where I find my own socialisation hindering me. The scenario I outlined in my original post wherein the other child in question claimed my son had scratched him is a perfect example. When my son denied it my instinct was to believe him, but I felt proclaiming that he does not generally lie about such things was would in essence be accusing my friend''s son of lying. When it became obvious that my son had been telling the truth and my friend didn''t reprimand her son for lying, again I didn''t feel comfortable praising my son for telling the truth.

 

[whitby_2773]

Date: 7/10/2009 8:38:00 AM
Author: softly softly
Thank you for taking the time to respond Whitby (I was hoping to hear from you), your advice and insight are very helpful.


Unfortunately this is also a situation where I find my own socialisation hindering me. The scenario I outlined in my original post wherein the other child in question claimed my son had scratched him is a perfect example. When my son denied it my instinct was to believe him, but I felt proclaiming that he does not generally lie about such things was would in essence be accusing my friend''s son of lying. When it became obvious that my son had been telling the truth and my friend didn''t reprimand her son for lying, again I didn''t feel comfortable praising my son for telling the truth.

hey softly

i understand your discomfort and i understand that there''s every chance your friend would have been offended or annoyed. however...

you can still praise your son in private or at home. more importantly, make sure you let him know you believed him BECAUSE he was truthful; kids rapidly learn the wonderful feeling of being believed - and they find it addictive. your belief/trust in him is one of the big rewards for him of telling the truth, so make sure he kows he had that from you.

at the end of the day, in a situation like this, you will need to choose which is more important to you - not offending your friend, or parenting your son. you sound like a thoughtful parent, so i''m pretty sure which one you''re going to choose.

in always requiring the truth, you''re asking your child to do something that will often lead to his discomfort; if you''re asking it of him, he has the right to expect you to step up with reinforcement and praise - even when it costs you something. as such, it''s then something you''re in together - and that''s a good bonding experience for both of you.

just keep it firmly fixed in your head what you''re doing and why you''re doing it...then go for it!

good luck, softly - you can do it!