Home Should I help? (& a minor vent)

[Italiahaircolor]

I don''t normally consider myself to be "petty" person...but one of my neighbors over the past couple of weeks has really rubbed me the wrong way--and today, she asked for help...

Background:

My husband and I live in a townhome...so, there isn''t much you can do as far as individuality is concerned. We decided this summer to put in a flagstone retension wall and plant some blooming bushes along with some really cool Asian-inspired solar lights to give our home some curb appeal and break away from the cookie cutter blah-blah-blah.

We worked really hard getting the approval to do this project. Lots and lots of hoops! And then, we worked really hard bringing it all together. So, needless to say--we''re pretty darn proud!

Flash forward to about two weeks ago...our neighbor pops over and makes so remarks about the front yard...it looks nice, where''d you get this things--so on and so forth. We''ve always been friendly with her...so we shared with her all the details. Including how hard it was to get approved.

Well, guess what? She went ahead and did everything we did to a "T" in her yard. Same stones. Same solar lights, even hung the same way. Same bushes. You get the drift. Now, I''m not saying that we had the corner market on flagstone and lighting kits...but it totally erased any and all individuality from our scape...which, lets be honest--burned and bumed me out all in the same moment. I know immation is the greatest form of flattery...but she could have created the same look but tweeked her design choices.

So...I''ve somewhat managed to swallow my resentment...but then today she pops over as I''m out watering and asks if she could have the blueprints we drew up and submitted...because she needs to get her project cleared. That''s right...the project wasn''t cleared...and now she wants our stuff so that she can get it all squared away. I nicely told her that my DH is out of town, but that I''ll mention this to him when he gets back. She was like "I really need those papers ASAP"...and I was like "I understand". I never told her flat out I''d give them to her...and now that I''m thinking it over...I kind of feel like I want to be stingy and hoard my papers.

I am not normally like this...so it''s kind of shocking to me...but I feel like we went to a lot of work, working and reworking and brainstorming--and it was all lost....and now I''m supposed to help her? Isn''t giving her the **idea** enough?

.

I''m on fence...DH was like "whatever you want, dear"...so I''m turning to you all...do I cough up the papers, or make her figure it out on her own???

TIA!

 

[purrfectpear]

Will you still feel like a grownup if you throw this little snit and act like a spiteful toddler?

Just askin''

Generally I try to be the bigger person, especially if I have nothing to gain by NOT helping a neighbor. You never know when you might want some karma points in your favor

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 5/23/2009 8:49:19 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Will you still feel like a grownup if you throw this little snit and act like a spiteful toddler?

Just askin''

Generally I try to be the bigger person, especially if I have nothing to gain by NOT helping a neighbor. You never know when you might want some karma points in your favor

I guess you''re probably right...but there is this part of me that wants be a b**** for just once.

 

[diamondsrock]

Wow, not only did she copy your design down to the last detail, but now she''s demanding you hand over the blueprints to her so she can breeze through the approval process? I honestly don''t even have words for that. I find it extremely inappropriate. It''s like she stole all your ideas, and now she wants to steal all your work as well to avoid her own battles for the permitting.
I think it would have been nice if she had taken a few of your ideas and made them her own. Then again, it is a compliment to your work. However, I think demanding the paperwork is going too far. It''s yours, not hers. I honestly am not much help but I would probably reluctantly hand over the paperwork after much internal stewing. I tend to avoid confrontation so usually take the easy way out!

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

I would say "husband is out of town on business and he has the plans squirreled away somewhere. I''ll ask him where they are when I speak with him next."

Then if she asks again say, he''s away on business, I haven''t spoken with him.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/23/2009 8:50:39 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor

I guess you're probably right...but there is this part of me that wants be a b**** for just once.

hahahaha I'm totally in your shoes here! What I would do is tell her the design was from a professional landscaper and the blueprints were copywrited and you're not permitted to share them without consent. Tell her the design cost $2K and it will be the same for her.

 

[kama_s]

My issue with this situation is that she never asked you if you would be okay with her replicating your design (but really, even if she did ask, how do you even say ''no''?!), and more importantly, she didn''t request for the blueprints, she demanded them. If it were a friend, I would give the blueprints without missing a heartbeat. For her? Na-uh.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 5/23/2009 9:46:49 PM
Author: kama_s
My issue with this situation is that she never asked you if you would be okay with her replicating your design (but really, even if she did ask, how do you even say ''no''?!), and more importantly, she didn''t request for the blueprints, she demanded them. If it were a friend, I would give the blueprints without missing a heartbeat. For her? Na-uh.

I agree...I really don''t think someone who copies your hard work, then demands the blueprints deserves them...

I would just say that you aren''t sure if you have them anymore-once the committee approved them you got rid of them. Is that plausible?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/23/2009 9:49:36 PM
Author: neatfreak


I agree...I really don''t think someone who copies your hard work, then demands the blueprints deserves them...

I would just say that you aren''t sure if you have them anymore-once the committee approved them you got rid of them. Is that plausible?

Is there an HOA? We have a condo/townhome that''s currently rented out. . .to do ANYTHING requires tons of approval. Once my neighbor cut back a shrub because it was rubbing against his car and he received a "warning." I''m surprised that your neighbor was able to complete all that work without any permission.

 

[megumic]

How rude of her! To me, it''s the same as if she painted her house the same color siding and same color shutters. In townhouse developments it''s hard to differentiate - she stole the one thing you had the ability to be different with!

Personally, I probably would be frank with her and let her know how you feel she''s stolen your idea and creativity. Perhaps she could have asked before taking action, instead of after the fact. Although it''s sometimes better to ask for forgiveness than for permission, I think in this case it''s a bit different as she now wants YOUR plans so SHE can be approved - AFTER THE FACT at that.

I''d be very uncomfortable sharing my plans - you could claim it''s legally protected as your "intellectual property"?

Good luck!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 5/23/2009 9:49:36 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 5/23/2009 9:46:49 PM

Author: kama_s

My issue with this situation is that she never asked you if you would be okay with her replicating your design (but really, even if she did ask, how do you even say ''no''?!), and more importantly, she didn''t request for the blueprints, she demanded them. If it were a friend, I would give the blueprints without missing a heartbeat. For her? Na-uh.

I agree...I really don''t think someone who copies your hard work, then demands the blueprints deserves them...

I would just say that you aren''t sure if you have them anymore-once the committee approved them you got rid of them. Is that plausible?

Ditto...I''m sure you would give them to her if you had them-it''s just too bad you lost them!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 5/23/2009 9:54:16 PM
Author: MC

Date: 5/23/2009 9:49:36 PM
Author: neatfreak


I agree...I really don''t think someone who copies your hard work, then demands the blueprints deserves them...

I would just say that you aren''t sure if you have them anymore-once the committee approved them you got rid of them. Is that plausible?

Is there an HOA? We have a condo/townhome that''s currently rented out. . .to do ANYTHING requires tons of approval. Once my neighbor cut back a shrub because it was rubbing against his car and he received a ''warning.'' I''m surprised that your neighbor was able to complete all that work without any permission.

Our HOA is incredibly strict, too. We need premission to put anything in or take anything out which also includes pruning and triming! Which is why before even starting the project, we had to do all the paper work, which attending an HOA meeting, presenting out case...and then wait 2 months for approval! It wasn''t "easy" to say the least!

I guess this is probably why I feel so "put out" just handing my work over. It''s not that I''m a nasty person--or anti-social... I''m all for a sense of community...DH and I host fire pits for our court, arrange court garage sales and a few other things. But I feel like this incident has crossed the line...for me...and that anything I do should be because I want to--not because it''s demanded of me.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Thank you everyone who replied. I was nervous to check this thread because I was afraid I was going to get a scolding for being childish (al a PurrfectPear)...so your understanding and support means a lot to me. Thanks.

Like I mentioned above in response to Neatfreak and MC...it was a lot of research to get this job done. I don''t mind, really, that she liked the look and it inspired her to clean up her space. But I really wish she had tweeked the design to make it her own instead of simply creating a carbon copy. She could have used any number of materials to make her space pop...and it burns me that she just was like "I''ll take that"...because it was for us and a reflection of us. I mean, use the stone--get your own lights...use the lights, use castle stone instead of flagstone....

There is a part of me, like I said to PP, that knows it won''t hurt anymore to just give her the paperwork...but, there is also this part of me (about 78%) that wants to be like "nope, they''re gone...I don''t have them...but you can print out a generic form on the HOA website"...

 

[Kaleigh]

I feel for you Italia. I think it takes a lot of nerve. Can I ask did she go ahead with the work without getting it apporoved? That part wasn't clear to me. My thinking was she needs your plans to get it approved but it sounds like the work was already done??

Best of luck with all of this, I think you've gotten some great advice.

 

[TravelingGal]

You know, sometimes I''ll about being the bigger person. In your case, I wouldn''t be. I''m not into rewarding the lazy. People wanted to copy my tests in school too. I didn''t let them.

If she didn''t get it approved beforehand, tough beans. She should have followed the rules.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 5/23/2009 10:44:26 PM
Author: TravelingGal
You know, sometimes I''ll about being the bigger person. In your case, I wouldn''t be. I''m not into rewarding the lazy. People wanted to copy my tests in school too. I didn''t let them.

If she didn''t get it approved beforehand, tough beans. She should have followed the rules.

I agree! I have had neighbour''s copy me before too, but geez, this is bloody well ridiculous!! She needs to get her own set of plans approved, and probably pay for them too.

 

[tigian]

I can totally see why you are annoyed. I would be too! She could have at least asked you if it were alright to use your ideas. If it were me, next time I saw her, I would say half jokingly, "Wouldn''t it be nice if you made your yard a bit different from mine?" As for the blueprints, "After the approval, DH put them in safe keeping and now it seems we can''t find them." It may be b****y, but she is being a meanie. So sorry you have to deal with that.

 

[Blair138]

Sorry but I don''t feel like right now is the time to be the bigger person...I equate it to copying homework and tests like TGal said...you put in all the work and now she just wants it so she can breeze through the process...SORRY! tough $h!t!

Tell her your hubby has the paperwork in the lockbox and he has the key!

 

[phoenixgirl]

I'd probably just try to avoid her/outlast her with vague replies until she draws up her own plans. I mean, come on . . .

How about this?

You: "Nope, you know what, we didn't keep them after all."

Her: "You didn't? Ugh. I don't know how I'm going to get this approved."

You: "Yeah, sorry. It just never occurred to us that we'd need them again. We didn't think anyone would do the same exact thing."

Her: "Well, could you maybe redo them? I really don't know how this kind of thing is done."

You: "We're really busy right now with [mention something going on] and we can't even really remember what we did. But you should be able to figure it out since you just did the landscaping. Sorry!"


If somebody is bugging you to do something unreasonable (like last weekend when this guy at my husband's mountain biking race wanted me to watch his dog for two hours . . . I am pregnant and the portopotties were 1 mile away . .. and this was a complete stranger not a friend or anything . . . or when the new teacher asked me to give up my planning period and be his substitute every time there is a softball game because he's not an official coach so the school won't provide coverage . . .), the best thing to do is to say your piece and then look sympathetic but don't respond to repeated entreaties. Eventually the person will say something like, "Well, oh well, thanks anyway," to which you say cheerfully, "Sorry!" Just ceasing to respond ends the conversation a lot sooner than trying to convince the other person that you're in the right. They don't have to agree; they just have to go away.

 

[lyra]

Tell her you had a professional draw up the plans and that you''ll split the fee with her if she wants to use them. Decide what the fee could have been, divide by 2. You get a little spending money, she gets the plans, everyone is happy.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Well everyone (again, thank you). I have decided to go with the b-streak, and withhold my design plans.

It''s not really about me being mean, but rather not being a push over.

So, thanks for the advice and support...I put it to good use!

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Date: 5/23/2009 10:44:26 PM
Author: TravelingGal
You know, sometimes I''ll about being the bigger person. In your case, I wouldn''t be. I''m not into rewarding the lazy. People wanted to copy my tests in school too. I didn''t let them.

If she didn''t get it approved beforehand, tough beans. She should have followed the rules.

Ditto! I''d withhold them too. It was nice enough of you to give her ideas. But this now equates to you doing all the work for her.

I''d do as mentioned above and if she asks again, say they''re personalized prints and forms, and each owner has to do their own for the individual design. Haha, then she''d have to admit it if she actually copied your design. Which wouldn''t really work anyway, since she apparently did the work without blueprints to begin with.

I''m glad to see you''ve chosen not to hand them over to her Italia. She may even end up having to rip up her stuff if they find out she''s gone about it in the wrong steps anyway. But even if she has someone come and do the blueprints, I can''t imagine many companies that would be willing to do them after the fact, knowing it''s against regulations. I think this is just a situation where she''s going to have to learn to follow the regulated steps by your HOA. And I don''t think you should feel bad about that either - none of this is your fault. You''re not responsible for making sure she follows the steps in order - that''s her job. You just offered ideas, and it''s the truth that blueprints are personal per project.

 

[crown1]

sorry about this situation. i kind of understand as i purchased a very nice piece of sculpture/statuary for my lawn. i was approached by several individuals who wanted to copy it. i was very vague and simply stated i had found it by searching the internet. i really wanted to keep it to myself and i knew if they searched they could find something similar. i did feel a bit bad but also felt it was easy enough for them to find their own if they were willing to exert the effort. i did not see anyone make the effort to get their own.

 

[doodle]

Italia, you''re nicer than I am. Not only would I not give her my plans that I worked so hard on, but I would have complained to the HOA that she hijacked my efforts! I can''t stand that kind of crap!

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 5/23/2009 10:26:27 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
Thank you everyone who replied. I was nervous to check this thread because I was afraid I was going to get a scolding for being childish (al a PurrfectPear)...so your understanding and support means a lot to me. Thanks.

Understanding and support, or just enabling and cowardice? I''m sorry I realize that''s offensive but I don''t know another word for it? I would encourage everyone who posted on this thread to go back and read what they wrote.

Not a single person said to tell the truth. Well, one person started out with the truth and still ended with a lie. That''s being a coward. Personally I don''t care whether you give the papers or not, but I do make a judgement about HOW you support your decisions.

If you don''t want to share the papers that is entirely your right. Be honest, look your neighbor in the eye and say "You hurt my feelings when you copied my landscaping. Because of that, and the fact that I think you are rude and lazy, I''ve chosen not to provide plans that I put my work into with you".

Because you know what, when you are tempted to LIE to rationalize what you are doing it''s either an indication that you aren''t doing the right thing, or that you aren''t a grownup. Otherwise why would you fabricate?

Share or don''t share, but stop trying to pretend that it''s OK to be a coward

Own your decisions. That''s what adults do. I honestly find it really, really sad to see how many women are afraid to stand for their beliefs.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 5/24/2009 1:22:33 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 5/23/2009 10:26:27 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
Thank you everyone who replied. I was nervous to check this thread because I was afraid I was going to get a scolding for being childish (al a PurrfectPear)...so your understanding and support means a lot to me. Thanks.

Understanding and support, or just enabling and cowardice? I''m sorry I realize that''s offensive but I don''t know another word for it? I would encourage everyone who posted on this thread to go back and read what they wrote.

Not a single person said to tell the truth. Well, one person started out with the truth and still ended with a lie. That''s being a coward. Personally I don''t care whether you give the papers or not, but I do make a judgement about HOW you support your decisions.

If you don''t want to share the papers that is entirely your right. Be honest, look your neighbor in the eye and say ''You hurt my feelings when you copied my landscaping. Because of that, and the fact that I think you are rude and lazy, I''ve chosen not to provide plans that I put my work into with you''.

Because you know what, when you are tempted to LIE to rationalize what you are doing it''s either an indication that you aren''t doing the right thing, or that you aren''t a grownup. Otherwise why would you fabricate?

Share or don''t share, but stop trying to pretend that it''s OK to be a coward

Own your decisions. That''s what adults do. I honestly find it really, really sad to see how many women are afraid to stand for their beliefs.

I see what you''re saying...but, as I''ve said before...your world PP is very black and white with no room for gray. This is an uncomfortable position I''m in, and I appreciate (very much, actually) ways and ideas posters supplied me with to gracefully turn her down.

I think most of the "lies" were for comic relief and I don''t think they reflect poorly on anyone for suggesting them. I''m going to handle her by simply telling her that I cannot find my plans anymore--and that she can print off the generic form from the HOA website and fill them out to her liking. If she''s pissed off by that...then there is very little I can do.

I certainly don''t think keeping my plans to myself makes me a coward. I''m not afraid to give them over to her...I simply don''t want too. There is a big difference between those two things. And I do own my decision--maybe I sensor myself more than you''d like me too...I don''t want to get into a war of words with her, I simply want to defuse the situation and make it go away with as little tension as possible. I think it would be far more childish to plant my hands on my hips and snark that I''m not going to give her my designs because she pirated my landscaping.

And believe me PP, I am very much an adult. I think it takes a big person to stand up for what you believe while messuring that against being civil. Sorry you disagree.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 5/23/2009 10:36:26 PM
Author: Kaleigh
I feel for you Italia. I think it takes a lot of nerve. Can I ask did she go ahead with the work without getting it apporoved? That part wasn''t clear to me. My thinking was she needs your plans to get it approved but it sounds like the work was already done??

Best of luck with all of this, I think you''ve gotten some great advice.

I realized just now that I never responded to this...

Yes, she did the work before getting approved. Stupid, I know. Which is why I''m think she''s in such a panic to get the plans...she may have received some communication to the effect that if she didn''t submit stuff asap she''d have to take it down.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 5/24/2009 1:22:33 PM
Author: purrfectpear

Date: 5/23/2009 10:26:27 PM

Author: Italiahaircolor

Thank you everyone who replied. I was nervous to check this thread because I was afraid I was going to get a scolding for being childish (al a PurrfectPear)...so your understanding and support means a lot to me. Thanks.

Understanding and support, or just enabling and cowardice? I''m sorry I realize that''s offensive but I don''t know another word for it? I would encourage everyone who posted on this thread to go back and read what they wrote.


Not a single person said to tell the truth. Well, one person started out with the truth and still ended with a lie. That''s being a coward. Personally I don''t care whether you give the papers or not, but I do make a judgement about HOW you support your decisions.


If you don''t want to share the papers that is entirely your right. Be honest, look your neighbor in the eye and say ''You hurt my feelings when you copied my landscaping. Because of that, and the fact that I think you are rude and lazy, I''ve chosen not to provide plans that I put my work into with you''.


Because you know what, when you are tempted to LIE to rationalize what you are doing it''s either an indication that you aren''t doing the right thing, or that you aren''t a grownup. Otherwise why would you fabricate?


Share or don''t share, but stop trying to pretend that it''s OK to be a coward

Own your decisions. That''s what adults do. I honestly find it really, really sad to see how many women are afraid to stand for their beliefs.

Sometimes in life you need to be vague or tell a white lie to keep the peace. This is one of those times IMO. Just because she doesn''t want to share plans with her neighbor doesn''t mean she needs to start a war with her.

 

[cara]

I totally get why you are annoyed and pissed off, and it is beyond ballsy that your neighbor is *demanding* your plans rather than asking for them. But...

This is not a test that she copied on. There is no academic dishonesty associated with lawn design, heck you even said you live in cookie-cutter houses. And she asked you for details about what you did, which you shared.

I realize you've already decided on your course of action, but can always "undecide" or, rather, casually mention that you managed to locate the plans.

This is one of those times where I think the adult thing to do is to swallow your disappointment/frustration and be neighborly and help her out with the retroactive approval process. Well, assuming she manages to ask nicely next time. Because withholding the plans is a really b%$chy way to make your point. You are upset she copied your lawn design to a T, and so you are going to make her suffer with the approval process hassle for longer than necessary? What does that help? Your yards will still be twins.

If you want to be direct, you could make a comment to her that you are disappointed that your lawn is no longer unique on the street, and hope (or even ask!) that she change something prior to getting approval from the board. But the work is already done, and this has the potential just to stir the pot without actually fixing the soup. If you want to make the situation go away with a minimum of drama, with the added bonus that this person owes you one in the future, then you hand over the plans with little additional support and just make a personal note not to share any future details of design work with this person.

Not saying here that you don't have a right to be annoyed. But sometimes you are not supposed to act on that feeling.

 

[risingsun]

It it were me, I would report her to the HOA. You put in the work and the money to hire a landscape designer to do this project for you. Your neighbor steals the design and now wants to legitimize it by using your designer's plans. That's just nonsense. What your neighbor was did wrong and lazy. I wouldn't reward her for it. Let her know that you paid for the plans and the work and you won't be able to share this information with her, but you would be happy to give her the name of the designer. Then call the designer and inform him/her about what the neighbor did. He/she may not think it's no big deal. We put in a lot of time and money for our landscaping. In our neighborhood, many of us have landscaped islands in our front yards. None of them look the same. It just takes some effort.