Serious family issue... what to do??

[Dreamer_D]

This morning my husband received this message via Facebook about his brother.

Hi,
> I know you don''t know me but I just wanted to msg you because I am concerned about [your brother]. I don''t know him very well, but hes an aquaintance i met [when he was at school] a few years ago. Anyways, he will randomly msg me from time to time, and it seems like he''s always on some sort of drug, usually hallucinating ones like mushrooms, etc. Anyways, he''s been msging me tonight saying he is going to kill himself and saying hes "too f^&%ed" and that hes "going to do it" and im trying to talk him down but its facebook chat and its not easy. But it seems like he always has these drug induced suicide, like, its happended more than once. I just wanted to make his family aware because he may need some support or any help he can get. I know this msg is random but i saw on facebook here that youre his brother and I thought i would bring this to your attention. Im doing this to be a friend fo him, though he prob ably wont want to talk to me after this, i just feel i need to do this for his safety.
> Thanks


We are at a loss as to what to do. We don''t know this friend at all. The brother is in his early 20s and lives accross the country from the rest of the family. There have been known drug & alcohol issues in the past, we had an intervention a year ago about his cocain use, but the brother has never received treatment and denies any problems. I believe it is totally possible that what the friend is saying is true, but on the other hand it could all be a bad joke by the brother... he has a bad sense of humour.
What do we do?? I don''t normally ask advice about this sort of thing on PS, but I thought that perhaps someone here has had a similar experience and can offer advice.

 

[House Cat]

I come from the school of thought that all suicide threats should be taken seriously. I have mental illness in my family, bipolar disorder and depression. It comes with drug and alcohol use sometimes as a way to self medicate. The suicide threats can be a byproduct of the use. It sounds as though your BIL needs some serious help.

Advise the email writer to call 911 the next time BIL threatens suicide...period. This will be a wake up call for him. He will be hospitalized and receive help.

As far as what your husband should do? Well, he can talk to his brother, but he will probably be met with denial. Your husband should tread very lightly.

 

[Moh 10]

This is very very difficult.

When I was a kid there was drug and suicide issues in my family.
We all worked so hard and went through hell "helping" the person for years and years - to no avail.

What makes this so hard is the person himself is the only one who can solve this.
All the love and support of the most perfect family may not be enough.

It is very hard to let go and not feel responsible when someone you love self destructs.

I'm not saying don't care or give up.
Do whatever you can to get this person to professional, medical, spiritual, AA help.
Whatever works, works.

But after you have done everything, that's all you can do.
Don't be an enabler by supporting him or covering up for him.

Good luck, and don't feel personally responsible.

 

[LilyKat]

I would give the messager the benefit of the doubt and take it seriously. I have worked in the field of suicide prevention before.

Have your husband call his brother. He doesn''t need to mention the message or suicide or drugs - just chat and gauge his mental state. Does he seem happy, pleasant, with it? That''s no guarantee of safety, but it would be reassuring, and if that''s the case I would probably leave it at that with regular calls over the next few days/weeks. However, if he seems truly depressed and hopeless, I would try to engage him and get him to talk. Suicidal people are often looking for someone to share with and don''t always hide things to the extent that others might think. A phone call could be the lifeline he needs. If you are seriously, seriously worried after the call, consider calling your local police (non-emergency number) for their advice - they can call his local police service to cross-refer if they think there is a serious risk, and someone could go visit him at home.

Ultimately, it can''t hurt to call him. I would do it.

 

[Lilac]

I'm so sorry - I wish I had advice on what to do, but I really have no idea. He obviously needs help, but I wouldn't know how to go about getting him help (it sounds like he won't admit he has any issues and refuses any treatment).

I absolutely would take this very seriously though. I would not look at this as a joke by his brother- it's a VERY serious issue and given the drug issues you already know he has, it's very possible and likely that this is truly a concerned friend contacting your husband. Do anything and everything you can to get his brother help.

I'm so sorry - it's such a difficult situation and I wish I had better advice to offer

 

[Mara]

ITA with house cat. Whether or not this is actually a joke by the brother, what would you guys feel like if something DID happen tonite and you could have potentially prevented it? Take it seriously and pursue it. If it ends up being a horrible joke by the brother, well lesson learned but at least he's alive. As for giving up on someone like that, I tend to think there are lines drawn and whatever they are is up to the person...but in terms of saving a life and given his previous history of having drug abuse, you should take it like it is a serious threat and at least follow up on it.

 

[rainwood]

DD -

I haven''t had a similar situation, but if it were me, I would treat the FB message as real, and take whatever course of action I''d have taken if I''d gotten that same information from a trusted relative. Maybe that''s to do nothing if the family has already done everything they could reasonably do to help the brother with his drug/mental problems. Or maybe it''s another intervention or forced rehab or involuntary commitment if they feel there is more that can be done.

 

[Dannielle]

I am also with HouseCat, any suicide threat should be taken seriously.

I don''t like to speak about this, but recreational drug use is common among my group of friends. They are all young, professional people... but do enjoy partying quite hard. I won''t go in to details, but I have heard a few stories where acid trips/shrooms can really mess with your mind and make you have horrible thoughts(especially if those feelings are underlying).. I have heard of people hurting themselves and someone FI knows jumped off a three storey balcony breaking both his legs. I have also known someone who''s son ran through a plate glass door, he didn''t make it.

Speaking as a friend of people who use drugs, I know what it feels like to be worried and feel like I should be trying to get my friends help- but I would never break their trust unless I truely thought they were in danger of hurting themselves or others. So I would definately take this message seriously.

 

[tlh]

I''d do something. Regret is a terrible thing. People regret doing nothing, more than they regret their failures. If the message is real, and it most likely is.. then your BIL has a problem. I don''t know what advice to give, but I hope he gets some help.

Your family is in my thoughts right now. I''m sorry you have to go through this.

 

[purrfectpear]

I''d be on a plane already, and off the internet

 

[Steel]

Looks like a bad joke to me. I would ignore it.

If you are worried make contact directly with your BIL.

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 8/10/2009 1:46:00 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I''d be on a plane already, and off the internet

I''d be on the phone with the brother, antennae out for any clue hints that might shed light on the situation... and then on a plane or on the phone with the local police, depending.

 

[dragonfly411]

I would most definitely contact the brother to make sure he is ok. If there is a history of drugs for him then I would contact the parents, so they can investigate further.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 8/10/2009 2:05:42 PM
Author: Steel
Looks like a bad joke to me. I would ignore it.

If you are worried make contact directly with your BIL.

I know you can''t ignore it and shouldn''t, but I agree with Steel. It sounds like the type of post a "troll" would do, a cruel joke to stir up trouble. Possibly someone angry at the brother, and trying to make him look bad.

But regardless, you''ve got to check it out.

Is the poster anonymous?

 

[joflier]

I would do something. Even if he''s playing a bad joke.....well, why would someone joke about that? Seems like, when I''ve dealt with someone ''crying wolf'' about harming themselves, its for the attention, but not only that it often has been a strange way of asking for help. Whatever the case, its better to do something, than have the possibility of regret of doing nothing.

 

[neatfreak]

Is there someone local to the BIL that can check out the credibility of this for you easily? That''s where I would start. Don''t ignore it on the offchance that it IS real.

Hugs DD-as horrid as this sounds I hope it turns out to be a joke.

 

[swingirl]

Take it seriously. There is nothing lost if it''s a joke or troll but you are already aware of some drug issues so it''s not totally out of the blue. You should be able to see what sort of "friend" this person is to your BIL by his other posts. And ask him who the mystery poster is without divulging the message your husband received.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I would take it seriously b/c you will never forgive yourselves if you don''t and he does commit suicide. Seems like your BIL is reaching out for help (assuming this message is for real). Call him. Visit him. Be there for him. Addiction is a difficult illness. Unfortunately he will not get help unless he is ready. He can also only get clean and stay clean for himself but love and understanding can help him more than you may ever know. If your BIL really is in such darkness I think his brother can shine some light by being there for him. This would qualify as a family emergency.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thanks for the replies.

I actually wrote the friend back asking her (was a woman after all, not a guy, makes me believe it more) to elaborate and this is what she wrote back:

***
hey there,
No i wouldn''t joke about this but i understand its hard to grasp. I might not be the best source because i honestly haven''t seen him for years but we chat online from time to time but he seems to always be talking about drugs, bragging about doing them and stuff like that. he will also talk to me about being depressed and he''s threatened suicide more than once... its been in a span of a few years I guess. You see I wouldnt really call me a friend of [DH''s brother''s]... we "dated" for like a week like 4 yrs ago when he [was in school] and we''ve just always kept in touch. He seemed to always open up to me and would tell me about how he went from just smoking pot once and awhile to doing heavier drugs more seriously.i told him he needs to stop and the other night when he said he wanted to kill himself i told him he needs to stop using drugs. So again, im sorry i dont have any more detailed information for you but it was something i thought was serious enough to let you know about. And im fully aware that he probably wont want to talk to me after this, but i think its worth it if he can get some help you know what I mean?
***

I believe her, I don''t think it is a joke anymore... but whether he is serious about actually being suicidal or is seeking attention I don''t know. He was actually *just* here for a visit for a week and seemed the same as he has always seemed. He is on the plane on the way home right now, which is why we aren''t also on the plane. This is the second time a friend of the brothers has contacted one of us to say they are worried. The last time was 18 months ago when we had the intervention. Since then he has moved away on his own and I know from talking to him that he hangs out with low life''s and dealers mostly. He''s a really good kid, but has dependency issues and real problems with self-worth/motivation in life.

I guess we wanted to figure out what to do/say to DH''s parents before we jumped the gun on this. DH is going to call them tonight. I don''t know what they will do.

But if it was my child I would be on that plan out there tonight.

 

[JulieN]

Wondering about the authenticity of the message or the seriousness of the issue or what to say to the parents are the last things I would be thinking about.

 

[robbie3982]

Dreamer, so sorry you''re going through this. I''d show your in-laws the message from his exgf. Even if he''s not serious about being suicidal, that''s an issue in itself. Keep in mind, depressed people can be really good at seeming normal. I had issues with depression in hs and college and all of my best friends would''ve told you that I was fine. A good friend OD''d in college (he ended up being fine) and I never even knew he''d been depressed and this was AFTER I''d had my issues.

::hugs:: I hope you''re able to get your BIL some help.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 8/10/2009 6:36:11 PM
Author: robbie3982
Dreamer, so sorry you''re going through this. I''d show your in-laws the message from his exgf. Even if he''s not serious about being suicidal, that''s an issue in itself. Keep in mind, depressed people can be really good at seeming normal. I had issues with depression in hs and college and all of my best friends would''ve told you that I was fine. A good friend OD''d in college (he ended up being fine) and I never even knew he''d been depressed and this was AFTER I''d had my issues.

::hugs:: I hope you''re able to get your BIL some help.

This is what we did. I also agree about the depressed people seeming "normal", and I think this is the case with BIL... if you call daily drug use normal I guess.

***

I''m not sure exactly what the in laws are going to do. Like any issue, you have to know the person IRL to understand all the nuances. We aren''t taking this lightly by any means, but knowing him as we do it is hard to think of jumping on a plane or calling the plice to get a 72 hours psych hold. He likes to make provocative comments about lots of things, could this be one example? With other people I know I would feel as some of you do, I would jump on a plane personally and call the police myself. But with him?? I just don''t know. It may come to that! I''ll see how the night unfolds.

 

[purrfectpear]

Was there a reason why he came out to visit, or I guess I''m asking is it a normal thing for him to do? The reason I ask is that some people make an effort to "say goodbye" without letting anyone in on the adios. You''d be amazed at how "normal" people can act even when they''re planning the final exit. Personally I think the parents need to ransack his apartment and look for clues, but that''s just me.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 8/10/2009 10:24:17 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Was there a reason why he came out to visit, or I guess I''m asking is it a normal thing for him to do? The reason I ask is that some people make an effort to ''say goodbye'' without letting anyone in on the adios. You''d be amazed at how ''normal'' people can act even when they''re planning the final exit. Personally I think the parents need to ransack his apartment and look for clues, but that''s just me.

Major ditto..a family member of mine committed suicide and acted normal prior to it. He was depressed over his mother''s death, but never let off any clear warning signs...seemed to be progressing normally through the stages of grief.

 

[blingmemore]

I have actually been in the same situation. A few months back I was chatting on FB with one of my friends who is going through a tough marriage breakup. She was obviously drunk to the point she couldn''t even type properly (she is not a heavy drinker normally) and was telling me how she was in a dark place and wanted to end it all. She then suddenly went offline and I couldn''t reach her. I debated what to do, but realised I couldn''t live with myself if she did something terrible and I didn''t do anything about it. I called her sister who I had only met once and explained the situation to her. She was very appreciative and they went around to her house straight away. My friend was very messily drunk with her 3 kids at home. Turns out she thought she was doing really well so decided to go off her antidepressants! Obviously a very bad idea!

I have also been affected my suicide firsthand. My BIL took his own life 12 years ago at age 22. He was also into drugs and would threaten to kill himself all the time. He had a very volitile relationship with the mother of his child, always on-again off-again. They broke up and were speaking on the phone about custody arrangements. He threatened to harm himself, his ex said "you''ve threatened so many times what makes this time any different". We got the call the next day to say he''d passed that night.......

Please take this seriously.

 

[blingmemore]

Date: 8/10/2009 10:24:17 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Was there a reason why he came out to visit, or I guess I''m asking is it a normal thing for him to do? The reason I ask is that some people make an effort to ''say goodbye'' without letting anyone in on the adios. You''d be amazed at how ''normal'' people can act even when they''re planning the final exit. Personally I think the parents need to ransack his apartment and look for clues, but that''s just me.

My brother-in-law came and had lunch with me and 2 other SIL''s the day before he took his life. He was the most normal I''d even seen him and looking back now it was almost as if a weight had been lifted from his shoulders.

 

[honey22]

Date: 8/10/2009 1:46:00 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I'd be on a plane already, and off the internet

Ditto! If I couldn't find him, I would get to him no matter what.

Fingers crossed for your family DD, what a terrible situation!

 

[whitby_2773]

hi dreamer

i totally understand that you''re trying to balance ''taking action'' with not ''freaking out unnecessarily'' - looking for a middle, appropriate ground. good line of approach to take - so well done there.

just FYI, lots of studies have been done ascertaining what behaviors form the highest correlations with attempted AND ''successful'' suicide (different things, as attempted can include ''not serious intent''), and the second strongest indicating factor was statements to others by the person in question that they wanted to commit suicide. so in other words, the second strongest indication that your BIL is serious about committing suicide is him telling other people that he wants to. the only stronger indicator is an actual attempt which is unsuccessful - so never take an unsuccessful suicide attempt as just ''attention seeking''; it''s the biggest hint you''ll ever get that a person is likely to successfully commit suicide.

you haven''t said enough about your relationship with your BIL for it to be obvious whether you and your husband are the right people to intervene, but it seems unlikely that you''ll be the people who can really step in to support him in a day to day manner, simply due to distance. but it looks like you''re contacting the right people, which means you''re doing what you can. being at a distance such as you are, the main thing you can offer is conversation, so i''d work on opening up the lines of communication. the friend who contacted you said she was prepared to lose the relationship. so - i''d take her at her word and tell your BIL she''s contacted you, and then use that as an opening to discuss as many issues as he''s willing to address with you. obviously you can''t sit on the phone with him every night - in the final analysis it''s up to him to successfully manage his own life issues - but you can work out what you *can* do - and do that, reliably and with commitment.

drugs are such a confusing factor. one of the biggest risks is the accidental overdose, caused by loss of judgment and physical acuity. drug induced psychosis is always a real possibility, and the depression that comes along with this can raise the risk of suicide 10, 50, 100 fold. so obviously the best antidote to suicide in this particular instance is breaking the addiction. however, given that this can only be instigated by the addict themselves, there''s not necessarily a lot you can do. it might be worth it to you to have at least one appointment as a family with a therapist who specializes in treating patients with a drug dependency, as the recommended approach for the family towards a member with a drug dependency is different to the recommended approach taken by the family to a member who is suicidal; for instance, ''tough love'' might not be the way forward when suicide is being actively considered.

i''m sorry i can''t be more help. so much of this situation lies with your BIL. i think the main thing you can do is alert the greater family - especially those who are geographically accessible to him, open up the lines of communication, go as a group to see a therapist to get some ideas on how to proceed, and act towards your BIL as present and completely reliable in offering him whatever mode of support it is that you decide to offer.

good luck, dreamer - you''ll be in my thoughts,

 

[Dreamer_D]

Again, many thanks for all your thoughts and replies.

PP and others he came home for a wedding, so I don''t think it is a goodbye thing.

Whitby Yup, if I had to bet my bottom dollar I think that drugs are the major issue here and not depression/suicide, knowing him and his background. He seems to make these comments according to the girl when he is on hallucinogens like acid and mushrooms.

The major issue here is that he lives away from all family on the other side of the country, and on top of that he has not given the family his address. He moved away about 6 months ago and actually is doing much better living apart from his parents. They are good people, but he is an adult now and living with them as he was caused stress for everyone and made him feel worse about himself.

Last night DH told his parents what was going on and they wrere understandably very very upset about it all -- not only the threats but the drug use. They called him right away to talk but couldn''t bring themselves to confront the suicidal threats issue (I know, this is lame but they are confused and don''t want him to get mad and cut communication -- he has major reactive issues with then). They asked DH to call and he did. DH was very open with him about his feelings and whay he heard and with some prompting from me he confided about his own issues feeling depressed and lonely in his early 20s -- in the hopes of getting his brother to open up. His brother said he didn''t recall making the suicide threats, that he found them on FB when he logged in. He was really drunk and stoned after the wedding, so this makes sense. He said he feels a lot better now that he lives away from his parents on his own and that he had a relapse of bad feelings on his visit. Dh made it clear that he loved him and was there for him and that anytime the brother could call and he would help and listen without any judgement (something he really fears from his parents). This made his brother feel good, but there wasn’t any indication that he was particularly distressed right now.

Dh is going to call him regularly. Beyond what we have done, I just don’t see that calling the police and having him put on a psych hold would benefit him or his relationships with us right now. I hope I’m not wrong, but that’s my feeling knowing him and his situation.

 

[whitby_2773]

dreamer -

i think you handled this as well as it can be handled. i think added support and interest in a sustainable way is the ticket here, rather than an ''intervention'' as such which gives a big initial burst of interest, but then drops off over time. sooner or later, people have to be emotionally self-supporting (to an extent - nobody can live in isolation, granted) and they''ll make their own choices accordingly.

in one way it''s good that he doesn''t remember the suicide threats; it might provide the shock he needs to address his drug dependency. conversationally, that might be the way forward on this issue - ie "drugs could take your life from you...without you ever having intended making a choice such as this." it *could* perhaps be a logical route into therapy. does he have any interest in therapy? it''s highly unlikely he''ll go from how he is now to completely clean and sober unaided...

good luck, dreamer, and pls keep us updated on any changes.