Poll about relatives and pawn

[Jambalaya]

It seems that we have a group of posters who are 100% fine with their daughters and their other female relatives being engaged in the pawn industry. It's no different from construction or mining, apparently.

I'm going to do them the favor of assuming that what's good for my god-daughter is also good for their daughters and loved ones - in other words, that their views are sincerely held and that they would apply the same standards to their own relatives as they have to mine.

I'm intrigued. Is this a widespread view? Am I an outlier?

So: Would you be OK with your own daughter, god-daughter, or niece being engaged in s*x work? I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one who's not OK with that. But perhaps I am. Hence the poll.

 

[Rhea]

You misunderstood what people were saying...again. It's becoming a common theme to the point of seeming deliberate on your part.

 

[Jambalaya]

^^ Nope. Read the thread. Lots of support for s*x work. No different from mining or construction. I want to know if this applies to their own daughters or god-daughters, or just other people's.

 

[LemonMoonLex]

I would urge members to go read the other thread the OP created titled "God-daughter is doing online pawn" before voting, as this thread is just an attempt to garner likes to validate her viewpoint because she didn't like the responses she got on the original thread.

 

[telephone89]

You also said you'd rather she f*ck an old dude for money instead of curating her own content (pictures and videos), deciding who to send it to and for what price. You are clearly OK with women doing sex work, you are just judgy on what type.

 

[Jambalaya]

I think people should read it, too.

I meant, IF she's going to do s*x work anyway, at least limit it to one person. That seems the safer way to go. (Sugar baby work, for those who haven't read the other thread.)

 

[Jambalaya]

I would urge members to go read the other thread the OP created titled "God-daughter is doing online pawn" before voting, as this thread is just an attempt to garner likes to validate her viewpoint because she didn't like the responses she got on the original thread.

Interested to know how many really would be OK with their daughters doing pawn. There must be at least some, judging by the other thread.

 

[lovedogs]

Another attention seeking thread since OP realized that folks don't, in fact, share her judgmental and outdated views on sex.

 

[Jambalaya]

^^I have never hated the pawn industry as much as I do now that my GD is in it. Perhaps you have to had a loved one in it to understand how awful this situation is. Sorry you think it's attention-seeking. (???)

 

[Jambalaya]

judgmental and outdated views on sex.

How did we ever get to a place in society where the view that s*x work is mostly a negative, bad, and damaging thing is a controversial view? I feel as if the world is topsy-turvy! Luckily, the poll is showing some common sense so far - almost 90% say a straight no to being OK with their daughters or other female loved ones doing s*x work.

There's a group of feminists who are strongly against the industry. Angela Dworkin, Kathleen Berry, Melissa Farley, Julie Bindel, Sheila Jeffreys, Catharine MacKinnin, and Laura Lederer, to name a few. I agree with their views.

And what about the fact that the only state in the US that has legalized s*x work also has one of the highest rape rates in the US? Melissa Farley says:

Melissa Farley argues that Nevada's high rape rate is connected to legal prostitution because Nevada is the only US state which allows legal brothels and is ranked 4th out of the 50 U.S. states for sexual assault crimes,[23] saying, "Nevada's rape rate is higher than the U.S. average and way higher than the rape rate in California, New York and New Jersey. Why is this? Legal prostitution creates an atmosphere in this state in which women are not humans equal to them, are disrespected by men, and which then sets the stage of increased violence against women."[24]

 

[adlgel]

I have a daughter.

If I had to choose would I want her employed as a sex worker. No.

Would I feel comfortable telling someone I ran into who asked "so what is your daughter doing now?" that she is a sex worker. No.

If she was employed as a sex worker would I worry about her more than if she was employed in a more traditional, socially-acceptable line of work. Probably - even though there are risks in many other lines of work - high rates of suicide and depression exist in lines of work that are generally viewed more favorably (doctors, dentists, lawyers, etc.)

I have very few friends who I believe would answer differently than me. I'm sure people exist who would answer differently.

Perhaps my answers would be different if there was less of a stigma on the industry but clearly my answers are part of why there is a stigma. Sort of a vicious cycle.

 

[Jambalaya]

I've decided not to say anything now, but to check in with her about how it's going in six months. And hope like hell that she doesn't acquire a stalker or worse between now and then. I honestly don't think I'd be so worried if everything wasn't under her real name, real workplace, etc.

 

[doberman]

What is this pawn business? A more fashionable way of saying ****?

And no, I wouldn't be happy if my daughter (or son) was a sex worker. I paid a lot for their education so they wouldn't have to do something like that.

That doesn't mean I look down on prostitutes or sex workers. They're doing what they have to do to put food on the table for their kids. Generally they haven't had the advantages many of us have.

 

[nala]

My cousin’s daughter became a stripper when she turned 18 and continues to work in the industry even now. I don’t know to what extent she is a sex worker but I’m pretty sure she doesn’t restrict herself to the artistry of dancing. She in now in her 40’s and marrying her pimp. They have a condo by the beach, a restaurant and flashy lifestyle. Her immediately family is very proud and happily took her money all along. They even welcomed her friends at family events. I should add that her mom has always been very liberal but also very negligent. She kicked her out at 14 bc she wanted to start a new family. My side of the family only see her at major events like weddings and she is always all smiles with her fiancé who loves to greet us with a squeeze and a kiss ( eeeewww).

I would not like for my daughter to be sex worker bc she has so much more to offer. But I have to admit that this particular person was always hyper sexual and seemed excited about her vocation. I remember she was handing out cards at my wedding! And she was beaming. I will say that I am proud of her bc she is happy with her choice.

 

[telephone89]

I will also say, many many many (MANY) young people, both male and female, are sharing explicit photos of themselves to other people. So while people may not want their daughter or niece participating in the paid sex work industry, it's still quite likely they are sending and receiving photos to/from other young people. Wasn't that the whole reason snapchat was invented? This is why conversations regarding safety are especially important. Not focusing on the act, but how to be safe about it. The same way abstinence only doesnt work, trying to shit on the industry itself is not going to be a successful endeavor.

 

[Matata]

I'm offended by this post. @Jambalaya, time to put on your big girl panties and move on. Anytime people don't agree with your posts, you get like a hungry dog gnawing on a meatless bone. Stating over and over and over again in myriad ways your opinion in an effort to gain consensus. Now this post, because you got push back on the other.

It's disgusting to me that you would air such deeply personal information about a family member in a flagrant attempt to gain sympathy for your opinion and then act like a spoiled brat when people don't agree with you. Does your god daughter know you talk about her this way on a subsection of a friggin jewelry forum?

If you have no shame, you should start working hard on developing some.

 

[Jambalaya]

^^ @Matata, actually, I was interested to know if I SHOULD hold this opinion or not, such was the pushback I received for being concerned about my GD going into pawn. It's an 80/20 split, which I find interesting.

And come on, this forum is anonymous, and I'd rather talk to strangers in anonymity than discuss her with people we both know.

No need to name-call, thank you.

 

[Jambalaya]

^^ @doberman, pawn is just a way of getting round the auto-mod and not having PS swamped with dodgy stuff. Kenny said that that happens if we use certain words, including the full version of s*x.

 

[Jambalaya]

I made the mistake of trying to find out how bad this OF thing can be, and someone said that a person contacted their Twitter account using a burner account, and said something really horrible, which I'd rather not repeat. The idea of people talking to my kind and talented GD like that - I can't describe how that makes me feel

 

[Jambalaya]

@Matata - if you're offended, you could always just ignore it. As was your advice to me about the political threads.

 

[Jambalaya]

I don't want to discuss this with anyone who knows her IRL, which would mean I have no one to talk to if it wasn't for this place, so thank you so much to everyone who has been thoughtful and helpful in the issues that have cropped up with my GD. I know they're not easy ones.

And to the people who called me names and twisted my words, I couldn't care less, and it has zero effect on me. I'm so grateful to the kinder posters here who can accurately see how difficult and emotional this situation is. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

ETA: And thank you so much for your concern about someone who, after all, you don't know.

 

[Matata]

I was interested to know if I SHOULD hold this opinion or not,

Bullsh*t. Your OP above is smarmy and your inept rationalizations are your modus operandi when your words come back around to bite you in the butt. I CHOSE to address rather than ignore your OP because it's insulting and a passive/aggressive way to stick it to the people who disagreed with you in your other thread. You may think you are subtle but you are as obvious as a ton of bricks.

Now go ahead....go on for 30+ pages of how you just (insert more bullsh*t).

 

[GeliL]

This whole thing is blown way out of proportion and I don't think this thread should have been made because it very much misconstrues the messages that posters in the other threads (including me) are trying to communicate. From the way you are wording your post, you are skewing the votes your way (which is voting "no") by not clearly communicating your intentions and as a result, generalizing our point of view. This is the last post that I will make on this topic because it is getting ridiculous.

No one, absolutely no one, in the other thread think that anyone, ANYONE, should be involved in a sex work environment where the workers are mentally unstable, abused, and taken advantage of. It is toxic, unhealthy and a reason why it is frowned upon. Regardless of whether or not we are women or men, I think we can all agree that no one should be put into that situation and allow themselves to be further corrupted mentally. We are not saying that you should not be concerned, and putting your real information online can be very risky, BUT we are trying to say to not dismiss those who love what they do, are perfectly healthy and happy, and are practicing the act safely, by saying "wow that is disgusting, I can't believe you are doing sex work". If you think sex work itself is degrading to women even when the environment is based on consent, decent pay, and plenty of regulations just because the woman CHOOSES to engage in activities with someone she's not in love with, then I really don't know what to tell you. What if your GD isn't selling her body and is just engaging in these acts with random men without getting paid? Would you have a similar reaction or would you support her?

The suicide rates, drug abuse, and mental problems are caused by the terrible environment that is unfortunately involved with a lot of underground scene, sex work and otherwise. You seem to be reversing the cause and effect, and saying it is the sex work itself that is causing all this and all of these kinds of dehumanzing realities will magically disappear if sex work just didn't exist. It is not and it will not.

If your main concern is that she is using her real name on the internet, then fine, no one is going to argue against you on that because it is risky. But along with it you seem to hold a fundamental discrimination against people who chooses to be a sex worker, to the extent that even though they are happy and healthy and are only engaging in acts where they are comfortable, not abused, and are proud of themselves, because the vocation is not "worthy of respect". I fully respect you for your opinion, but please keep in mind that just because people advocate sex workers and are supportive towards them, does not mean that they want them to be abused and used. We want them to be safe while doing something they love.

 

[Jambalaya]

Bullsh*t. Your OP above is smarmy and your inept rationalizations are your modus operandi when your words come back around to bite you in the butt. I CHOSE to address rather than ignore your OP because it's insulting and a passive/aggressive way to stick it to the people who disagreed with you in your other thread. You may think you are subtle but you are as obvious as a ton of bricks.

Now go ahead....go on for 30+ pages of how you just (insert more bullsh*t).

Oooh, I don't think I can really compete with that level of anger. You can have this one, @Matata. I concede.

 

[Jambalaya]

What if your GD isn't selling her body and is just engaging in these acts with random men without getting paid? Would you have a similar reaction or would you support her?

That would change the entire dynamic. As one of the feminists I quoted above said, "It's not just sex, it's do-as-I-say sex." (When you're being paid, I mean.)

If she's single and isn't hurting anyone, AND is taking precautions, I wouldn't have a problem with the scenario above. I wouldn't think it was necessarily the healthiest choice, but it's her life. But I would judge if she was having a lot of random hook-ups and not using condoms. There's nothing sexy about spreading disease.

The other thing you have to remember is that when you're being paid, you lose a lot of bargaining power to insist on protection. And there are stealthers out there, and they're much more likely to remove the condom if they're paying. And in most pawn, protection isn't used anyway. I know they get tested regularly, but what use is that when it takes just one encounter to transmit a germ, and the workers are having unprotected encounters with multiple people, both or all of which could have caught something half an hour after their last test?

As to your other points about a safe and healthy environment for s*x workers, I just don't think that it's possible. At least, not possible enough, for enough women, enough of the time.

 

[Matata]

Oooh, I don't think I can really compete with that level of anger. You can have this one, @Matata. I concede.

 

[lovedogs]

oh, I see we've resorted to now completely making things up (e.g. "you lose the ability to demand that a partner wear protection if they are paying", and "stealthy people will SECRETLY remove the condom", and "sex work is do-as-I-say sex"). I am now going to dedicate time to trying to find nonprofits that advocate for decriminalizing all s*x work so that I can donate to them.

 

[Jambalaya]

And there are stealthers out there, and they're much more likely to remove the condom if they're paying.

when you're being paid, you lose a lot of bargaining power to insist on protection.

Those are a far cry from your inaccurate paraphrasing. Now who's making things up?

Stealthy people?? Did you not know that stealthing is a real thing? It's a sex crime that refers to men secretly removing condoms during intercourse. It's usually done in doggy position.

 

[Jambalaya]

About your other quote re. making things up - the one about "do-as-I-say s*x" - that's a quote from a respected feminist, Catharine MacKinnon. I didn't make it up.

 

[Jambalaya]

I am now going to dedicate time to trying to find nonprofits that advocate for decriminalizing all s*x work so that I can donate to them.

Noooo! There are women who need help to get out of s*x work. Women's shelters are full of women who need help to get back on their feet and not end up in s*x work that they don't want to do. Please consider donating to a woman's shelter, or any charity that aims to help women, like ones that donate clothes for interviews, and charities that offer training in computing, etc. This issue just bombed into my life two days ago, so I know nothing about the effects good and bad of decriminalizing, but I know that there are women who need immediate help who could really use your donation.