Political -- Did you feel safer when you woke up today?

[monarch64]

Yeah, I don't think fear is limited to conservatives. Any type of brand strategy, marketing, campaign effort, etc. essentially exploits humans' need for acceptance and security, and survival. So in that sense I think fear of not having those things is universal.

But. I think the point of what Kenny is talking about is that Trump used one party's overall sense of distrust of foreigners to his advantage. They steal jobs, bomb buildings, rape your women, etc. Lefties are a bit more optimistic and tend to want to give people the benefit of the doubt (except for the Donald.) Sweeping generalizations? Yes. But having grown up in an in overwhelmingly red town, I can tell you that the group mentality of folks there is exactly as I described.

ETA: yes, I own coloring books and play-doh. I have a young child. Both of those activities ARE soothing. Also? How do survivalists and prepares lean politically, out of curiosity? Because I'm recalling something about bunkers.

 

[AGBF]

Just look at what happened in California, Florida, Boston,

All US citizens, either born or naturalized, none from the 7 banned countries.

That does not mean they were not taken in by their rhetoric.

ruby-

Trump banned people from seven countries because those countries were supposedly contributing to the danger of the United States. The danger being "radical Islamic terrorism". But not one person from any of those seven countries took part in any act of terrorism on US soil.

The acts of mass shooting were almost entirely done by US citizens and the 9/11 attacks were entirely done by Saudi Arabians trained by the Taliban (Pakistani and Saudi sponsored men in Afghanistan).

Trump chose the seven countries he did because the United States did not need them for its oil business as it needed Saudi Arabia. That is not statesmanship; that is opportunism and it is sleazy. Trump just wants to look good to his base. He wants to look as if he is doing something, but it is actually something ridiculous. Something not only meaningless, but harmful and also illegal.

Deb

 

[AnnaH]

There's been a great deal of discussion about 'why these particular countries' and speculation about trump business dealings.
The current law used the same list of countries under the previous administration. I assume both the previous and current administration based the list on intelligence reports. That's not to say other countries shouldn't be on the list, but it doesn't appear that this is a recently made list.

 

[kenny]

What if Chetoo banned people from the oil countries too but banned SUVs, Trucks Bentleys, Rolls Royces, Lamborghinis, Hummers!

 

[AGBF]

There's been a great deal of discussion about 'why these particular countries' and speculation about trump business dealings.
The current law used the same list of countries under the previous administration. I assume both the previous and current administration based the list on intelligence reports. That's not to say other countries shouldn't be on the list, but it doesn't appear that this is a recently made list.

I would venture that the appellation "intelligence reports" doesn't truly apply if they never update their lists!

 

[Tekate]

There's been a great deal of discussion about 'why these particular countries' and speculation about trump business dealings.
The current law used the same list of countries under the previous administration. I assume both the previous and current administration based the list on intelligence reports. That's not to say other countries shouldn't be on the list, but it doesn't appear that this is a recently made list.

Conway said they used Obama lists. Obama's list as far as I can tell listed countries that harbored the most terrorists not where the terrorists came from, it's possible to segue to, well if they harbor terrorists they will be sending terrorists, okay I can go with that, but Saudi Arabia not on that list? that is criminal, that showed RIGHT THERE that Trump doesn't care about terrorism.. The worst of the worst come out of Saudi Arabia. Trump Hotels in Saudi Arabia.. I feel sad.

 

[E B]

There's been a great deal of discussion about 'why these particular countries' and speculation about trump business dealings.
The current law used the same list of countries under the previous administration. I assume both the previous and current administration based the list on intelligence reports. That's not to say other countries shouldn't be on the list, but it doesn't appear that this is a recently made list.

Not for a ban- because they felt they were unsafe to travel to at the time. AFAIK (and someone correct me) Obama's temporary ban was for Iraq, did not mention specific religions as a priority, and was based on intelligence warnings. Not excusing, but it isn't the same.

 

[E B]

I assume both the previous and current administration based the list on intelligence reports.

Then they need to let the people know this, if this is the case. But as of now, it appears this is just Trump "fulfilling a campaign promise" (as we went over on page 1) and was not based on intelligence. As an aside- this is what was so dangerous about Spicer coming out and lying about things as silly as crowd size, the protective ground cover, and (Donald) the weather. If they ruin their credibility on something so stupid and verifiable, how can we trust them when it comes to larger, unverifiable matters?

 

[Arcadian]

Look at this list.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/many-terrorist-attacks-u-carried-150056041.html

9/11 attacks:

On Sept. 11, 2001, 19 militants hijacked four commercial airlines to carry out terrorist attacks on the U.S. that killed 2,996 people and wounded more than 6,000 others. The 19 men were associated with al-Qaeda, a decentralized terrorist network, at the time led by Osama bin Laden.

Of the 19 hijackers, 15 were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt and one from Lebanon.

2001 anthrax attacks:

Anonymous letters laced with deadly anthrax spores began arriving at media companies and congressional offices, killing five people and infecting 17 others. The FBI concluded Bruce Ivins, a top biodefense researcher, was the key suspect for the attacks, although he was never charged with any crime. Ivins was American.

2002 D.C. sniper attacks:

Over the course of three weeks in 2002, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo killed 10 people and critically injured three others in Washington D.C., Baltimore, and Virginia.

Muhammad was born as John Allen Williams in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Malvo is from Jamaica.

2006 UNC SUV attack:

Mohammed Reza Taheri-aza intentionally rammed into people on the UNC Chapel Hill campus. Nine people were injured, none seriously. Taheri-aza was reportedly an Iranian-born U.S. citizen.

2006 Seattle Capitol Hill massacre:

Kyle Aaron Huff opened fire in a rave afterparty in Seattle’s Capitol Hill, killing six and wounding two others. Huff was American, from Whitefish, Montana.

2006 Seattle Jewish Federation shooting:

Naveed Afzal Haq shot six people, one fatally, at the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle building. Haq was a U.S. citizen of Pakistani descent.

2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting:

Jim David Adkisson killed two people and wounded seven others at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee. Adkisson was American.

2009 Arkansas recruiting office shooting:

Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad shot and killed one military recruiter and seriously wounded another at a Little Rock, Arkansas Army/Navy Career Center. Muhammad, previously known as Carlos Leon Bledsoe, was American.

2009 Fort Hood shooting:

Nidal Malik Hasan, a U.S. Army major and psychiatrist, fatally shot 13 people and injured more than 30 others in Fort Hood, Texas. Hasan was born in the U.S. to Palestinian parents.

2010 Austin suicide attack:

Andrew Joseph Stack III deliberately crashed his single engine plane into the Austin, Texas, IRS building, killing himself, one IRS employee and injuring 13 others. Stack was American.

2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting:

Wade Michael Page fatally shot six people and wounded four others at a Sikh temple is Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page, who was active in white supremacist groups, was an American.


2013 Boston marathon bombing:

Double bombings near the finish line of the Boston marathon killed three people and injured at least 264. The perpetrators were brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. According to FBI interrogators, the two were motivated by extremist Islamic beliefs, but were not connected to any known terrorist groups. Tamerlan was born in Russia but was a permanent resident of the U.S., while Dzhokhar was born in Kyrgyzstan and became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2012. Both were ethnically Chechen.

2013 Los Angeles International Airport shooting:

Paul Anthony Ciancia opened fire at Terminal 3 in LAX, killing one and injuring several others. Ciancia is American and grew up in Pennsville, New Jersey.

2013 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting:

Frazier Glenn Miller, Jr., a neo-Nazi white supremacist, committed a pair of shootings at the Jewish Community Center in Overland Park, Kansas, killing a total of three people. Miller was American.

2014 Las Vegas shooting:

A married couple, Jerad and Amanda Miller, committed a shooting spree in Las Vegas, killing three people as well as themselves. Both were American and supported extreme anti-government views.

2014 Queens hatchet attack:

Zale H. Thompson attacked four New York City Police Department officers with a metal hatchet, injuring two. A civilian was also injured after police opened fire on Thompson. Thompson, who was American, was described by police officials as a self-radicalized Muslim convert who was inspired by terrorist groups.

2014 slayings of NYPD officers:

Ismaaiyl Abdullah Brinsley killed two on-duty NYPD officers, reportedly as revenge for the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown. Brinsley was born in the U.S. to a Muslim African-American family.

2015 Charleston church shooting:

Dylann Roof killed nine people and injured one during a mass shooting at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in downtown Charleston, South Carolina. Roof, a white supremacist, is American and was sentenced to death on Jan. 10.

2015 Chattanooga shooting:

Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez opened fire on two military installations in Chattanooga, Tennessee, killing four Marines and wounding two others. A fifth Marine died from his injuries two days later. Abdulazeez, a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born in Kuwait to Palestinian-Jordanian parents.


2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting:

Robert Lewis Dear, Jr. committed a mass shooting at a Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood clinic, killing three and injury nine others. Dear, who is American, was ruled incompetent to stand trial and was indefinitely confined to a Colorado state mental hospital.

2015 San Bernardino attack:

A married couple, Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, killed 14 civilians and injured 22 others in a mass shooting at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California. Farook was born in the U.S. to Pakistani parents, and Malik, who was a permanent U.S. resident, was born in Pakistan but grew up in Saudi Arabia.

2016 Orlando nightclub shooting:

Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 in a mass shooting at the gay nightclub Pulse in Orlando, Florida. Mateen was an American born in the U.S. to Afghan parents.

2016 shooting of Dallas police officers: Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed a group of Dallas police officers, killing five and injuring nine others. Johnson, a former Army reservist, was an American.

2016 Minnesota mall stabbing:

Dahir A. Adan committed a mass stabbing at the Crossroads Center shopping mall in St. Cloud, Minnesota, injuring 10 people. Adan was born in Kenya and became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2008.

2016 New York and New Jersey bombings:

Over the course of three days in September, three bombs exploded and several explosive devices were found in New Jersey and New York City, injuring at least 30 people. The alleged perpetrator was Ahmad Khan Rahimi, an Afghan-born U.S. citizen.

2016 Ohio State university attack:

Abdul Razal Ali Artan carried out an attack on the Ohio State University campus, injuring 13. Artan, a student of the university, was a Muslim Somali immigrant.

2017 Fort Lauderdale Airport attack:

A mass shooting occurred at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport near the baggage claim in Terminal 2 on Jan. 6. A total of five people were killed and six others were injured. Esteban Ruiz Santiago, the alleged shooter, was indicted on 22 counts by a federal grand jury on Thursday. Santiago is an American, born to Puerto Rican parents in New Jersey.

 

[ruby59]

Look at this list.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/many-terrorist-attacks-u-carried-150056041.html

9/11 attacks:

On Sept. 11, 2001, 19 militants hijacked four commercial airlines to carry out terrorist attacks on the U.S. that killed 2,996 people and wounded more than 6,000 others. The 19 men were associated with al-Qaeda, a decentralized terrorist network, at the time led by Osama bin Laden.

Of the 19 hijackers, 15 were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt and one from Lebanon.

2001 anthrax attacks:

Anonymous letters laced with deadly anthrax spores began arriving at media companies and congressional offices, killing five people and infecting 17 others. The FBI concluded Bruce Ivins, a top biodefense researcher, was the key suspect for the attacks, although he was never charged with any crime. Ivins was American.

2002 D.C. sniper attacks:

Over the course of three weeks in 2002, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo killed 10 people and critically injured three others in Washington D.C., Baltimore, and Virginia.

Muhammad was born as John Allen Williams in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Malvo is from Jamaica.

2006 UNC SUV attack:

Mohammed Reza Taheri-aza intentionally rammed into people on the UNC Chapel Hill campus. Nine people were injured, none seriously. Taheri-aza was reportedly an Iranian-born U.S. citizen.

2006 Seattle Capitol Hill massacre:

Kyle Aaron Huff opened fire in a rave afterparty in Seattle’s Capitol Hill, killing six and wounding two others. Huff was American, from Whitefish, Montana.

2006 Seattle Jewish Federation shooting:

Naveed Afzal Haq shot six people, one fatally, at the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle building. Haq was a U.S. citizen of Pakistani descent.

2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting:

Jim David Adkisson killed two people and wounded seven others at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee. Adkisson was American.

2009 Arkansas recruiting office shooting:

Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad shot and killed one military recruiter and seriously wounded another at a Little Rock, Arkansas Army/Navy Career Center. Muhammad, previously known as Carlos Leon Bledsoe, was American.

2009 Fort Hood shooting:

Nidal Malik Hasan, a U.S. Army major and psychiatrist, fatally shot 13 people and injured more than 30 others in Fort Hood, Texas. Hasan was born in the U.S. to Palestinian parents.

2010 Austin suicide attack:

Andrew Joseph Stack III deliberately crashed his single engine plane into the Austin, Texas, IRS building, killing himself, one IRS employee and injuring 13 others. Stack was American.

2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting:

Wade Michael Page fatally shot six people and wounded four others at a Sikh temple is Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page, who was active in white supremacist groups, was an American.


2013 Boston marathon bombing:

Double bombings near the finish line of the Boston marathon killed three people and injured at least 264. The perpetrators were brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. According to FBI interrogators, the two were motivated by extremist Islamic beliefs, but were not connected to any known terrorist groups. Tamerlan was born in Russia but was a permanent resident of the U.S., while Dzhokhar was born in Kyrgyzstan and became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2012. Both were ethnically Chechen.

2013 Los Angeles International Airport shooting:

Paul Anthony Ciancia opened fire at Terminal 3 in LAX, killing one and injuring several others. Ciancia is American and grew up in Pennsville, New Jersey.

2013 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting:

Frazier Glenn Miller, Jr., a neo-Nazi white supremacist, committed a pair of shootings at the Jewish Community Center in Overland Park, Kansas, killing a total of three people. Miller was American.

2014 Las Vegas shooting:

A married couple, Jerad and Amanda Miller, committed a shooting spree in Las Vegas, killing three people as well as themselves. Both were American and supported extreme anti-government views.

2014 Queens hatchet attack:

Zale H. Thompson attacked four New York City Police Department officers with a metal hatchet, injuring two. A civilian was also injured after police opened fire on Thompson. Thompson, who was American, was described by police officials as a self-radicalized Muslim convert who was inspired by terrorist groups.

2014 slayings of NYPD officers:

Ismaaiyl Abdullah Brinsley killed two on-duty NYPD officers, reportedly as revenge for the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown. Brinsley was born in the U.S. to a Muslim African-American family.

2015 Charleston church shooting:

Dylann Roof killed nine people and injured one during a mass shooting at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in downtown Charleston, South Carolina. Roof, a white supremacist, is American and was sentenced to death on Jan. 10.

2015 Chattanooga shooting:

Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez opened fire on two military installations in Chattanooga, Tennessee, killing four Marines and wounding two others. A fifth Marine died from his injuries two days later. Abdulazeez, a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born in Kuwait to Palestinian-Jordanian parents.


2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting:

Robert Lewis Dear, Jr. committed a mass shooting at a Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood clinic, killing three and injury nine others. Dear, who is American, was ruled incompetent to stand trial and was indefinitely confined to a Colorado state mental hospital.

2015 San Bernardino attack:

A married couple, Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, killed 14 civilians and injured 22 others in a mass shooting at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California. Farook was born in the U.S. to Pakistani parents, and Malik, who was a permanent U.S. resident, was born in Pakistan but grew up in Saudi Arabia.

2016 Orlando nightclub shooting:

Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded 53 in a mass shooting at the gay nightclub Pulse in Orlando, Florida. Mateen was an American born in the U.S. to Afghan parents.

2016 shooting of Dallas police officers: Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed a group of Dallas police officers, killing five and injuring nine others. Johnson, a former Army reservist, was an American.

2016 Minnesota mall stabbing:

Dahir A. Adan committed a mass stabbing at the Crossroads Center shopping mall in St. Cloud, Minnesota, injuring 10 people. Adan was born in Kenya and became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2008.

2016 New York and New Jersey bombings:

Over the course of three days in September, three bombs exploded and several explosive devices were found in New Jersey and New York City, injuring at least 30 people. The alleged perpetrator was Ahmad Khan Rahimi, an Afghan-born U.S. citizen.

2016 Ohio State university attack:

Abdul Razal Ali Artan carried out an attack on the Ohio State University campus, injuring 13. Artan, a student of the university, was a Muslim Somali immigrant.

2017 Fort Lauderdale Airport attack:

A mass shooting occurred at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport near the baggage claim in Terminal 2 on Jan. 6. A total of five people were killed and six others were injured. Esteban Ruiz Santiago, the alleged shooter, was indicted on 22 counts by a federal grand jury on Thursday. Santiago is an American, born to Puerto Rican parents in New Jersey.

That long list, no matter who is responsible, is so sad to see.

 

[ruby59]

Just saw the very end of it, but was a serviceman killed in Yemen yesterday.

If so, could explain why that country is on the list.

And I still remember the 52 people taken hostage in Iran for 444 days. They are no friends of ours.

 

[Snowdrop13]

This whole thing is making me sad and I'm not an American. Trump has been headline news all week and reading articles like this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38791752.. just depresses me even further.

 

[arkieb1]

I wonder why, as a group, liberals are not as fearful as conservatives.
(Sure, there are exceptions )

Must be a genetic/brain or psychology thing.
Maybe it's education/IQ related.

Actually I think the white nationalist movement doesn't correlate to intelligence at all, plenty of educated people support Trump, this is a former racist white working class guy Dixon White who really tells it like it is (warning graphic language);

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiZ5KiZE20M

 

[AGBF]

Just saw the very end of it, but was a serviceman killed in Yemen yesterday.

If so, could explain why that country is on the list.

No. He died because Trump launched a raid on Yemen and he was in the attack party. I am not saying he died in vain. I am only saying that it does not mean that if refugees flee Yemen and are vetted that they are dangerous simply because our soldiers went into battle against one of the two Yemeni factions and some of them lost their lives in the line of duty.

 

[momhappy]

Do I feel safer?
No.
Making our country safer is a long process and I don't know if it's something that's even possible.

 

[Arcadian]

Anna, I can only speak for myself when I say that how this EO was applied was disgusting. Yes Obama had the same list and used it. But he didn't strand those with visas and green cards while they were traveling. Thats the main difference at least to me.

Yes I will agree to vetting people. In fact, I DO agree with it whole heartedly but do it in the right manner. There was no need to rush something through this shoddy.

 

[momhappy]

^I agree. I think that our government has a responsibility to protect our borders, but it has to be done in the right ways.

 

[jaaron]

A different angle on why this is a bad idea, and does not make us safer.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2017/01/trump_s_visa_ban_will_make_it_harder_to_fight_isis_generals_say.html

 

[momhappy]

Maybe I missed this somewhere, but if I remember correctly, didn't Obama ban refugees from Iraq for 6 months back in 2011?

 

[AnnaH]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

Facts

 

[momhappy]

^Thank you for posting that AnnaH

 

[lovedogs]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

Facts

Sorry, but those aren't facts. That isn't a "facts" based website, it's a highly biased conservative site.

 

[AnnaH]

Says you LD.

I would think you'd appreciate NR as they didn't support Trump.

What do you dispute?

 

[momhappy]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

Facts

Sorry, but those aren't facts. That isn't a "facts" based website, it's a highly biased conservative site.

You mean like the "facts" posted by Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, CNN, etc. Every source is biased.

 

[telephone89]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

Facts

An opinion piece is now considered facts? That's cool.

It also doesn't discuss why Saudi/Egypt/Lebanon/UAE weren't included, and how those are the countries that had terrorist funding and direct ties.

 

[Arcadian]

And I'm still incredulous over this.



He didn't do his buddy any favors.

 

[arkieb1]

Today's meme;

 

[Matata]

Bannon, bad to the bone and wielding immense power and influence over cheeto.
\http://www.vox.com/2017/1/29/14429984/trump-immigration-order-steve-bannon

 

[lovedogs]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

Facts

An opinion piece is now considered facts? That's cool.

It also doesn't discuss why Saudi/Egypt/Lebanon/UAE weren't included, and how those are the countries that had terrorist funding and direct ties.

Thank you.

 

[the_mother_thing]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

Facts

An opinion piece is now considered facts? That's cool.

It also doesn't discuss why Saudi/Egypt/Lebanon/UAE weren't included, and how those are the countries that had terrorist funding and direct ties.

Opinion peice, it was. But find me ONE person at HuffPo even half as qualified to speak on this topic.

David French is a staff writer for National Review, a senior fellow at the National Review Institute, an attorney (concentrating his practice in constitutional law and the law of armed conflict), and a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He is the author or co-author of several books including, most recently, the No. 1 New York Times bestselling Rise of ISIS: A Threat We Can’t Ignore. He is a graduate of Harvard Law School, the past president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), and a former lecturer at Cornell Law School. He has served as a senior counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice and the Alliance Defending Freedom. David is a former major in the United States Army Reserve (IRR). In 2007, he deployed to Iraq, serving in Diyala Province as Squadron Judge Advocate for the 2nd Squadron, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, where he was awarded the Bronze Star. He lives and works in Columbia, Tennessee, with his wife, Nancy (who is also a New York Times bestselling author), and three children.

An article on the same topic at HuffPo: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-executive-order-permanent-residents_us_588e7a0ae4b08a14f7e6c37a?z4lz6htvmcnylow29&

And here is the "bio" for this writer:

Marina Fang is an associate politics editor at The Huffington Post, based in the Washington, D.C. bureau. She covers politics breaking news and sometimes writes about the intersection of politics and pop culture, especially film. A graduate of the University of Chicago, Marina can be reached via email at...

Which one might most people reasonably find more credible to write about matters of law, politics and the Middle East?