Political -- Did you feel safer when you woke up today?

[Arcadian]

Ok so I also want to bring up the thing Obama put in place in his last weeks in office

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38617615

Since the rapprochement between Washington and Havana began in 2015, Cubans have been bracing themselves for the policy to be cancelled and the past two years have seen a sharp rise in the numbers of people seeking to move to the US while they still can.

But no-one was anticipating this week's sudden announcement.

Mr Manresa and his daughter were in a shelter in Tapachula, south-east Mexico, when they heard the news.

Same? Different? Discuss!


ETA
BTW I think dissenting views are good considering what we're discussing, as long as valid points are made in the discussion at hand. So thanks to all of you. This is how real and substantial dialogue between people gets created

 

[wildcat03]

Yep. He is very likely controlled by Pence, Bannon, Priebus, and Ryan. This is the general consensus among insiders, though we have no way of confirming at this point.

I'm honestly not even sure they can control him. I think he's truly a loose cannon.

 

[Matata]

Ok so I also want to bring up the thing Obama put in place in his last weeks in office

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38617615

Since the rapprochement between Washington and Havana began in 2015, Cubans have been bracing themselves for the policy to be cancelled and the past two years have seen a sharp rise in the numbers of people seeking to move to the US while they still can.

But no-one was anticipating this week's sudden announcement.

Mr Manresa and his daughter were in a shelter in Tapachula, south-east Mexico, when they heard the news.

Same? Different? Discuss!

No warning and rapidity of implementation the same. The important differences I see are: it's not targeted to a group of people who share one religion; it's not meant to keep out terrorists.
The socio-economic opportunities in Cuba will change as American investors take advantage of opportunities there. Those fleeing the rubble that was once Syria as well as other war-torn sections of the Middle East have no options in the foreseeable future for a humane existence in their own countries.

 

[katharath]

Yep. He is very likely controlled by Pence, Bannon, Priebus, and Ryan. This is the general consensus among insiders, though we have no way of confirming at this point.

I'm honestly not even sure they can control him. I think he's truly a loose cannon.

Oh, I agree. To clarify, I believe they are using him as a vessel to promote their own agendas; likely cajoling him with flattery (as MANY have noted, that is what works on him). How long can this last? No idea.

Here's an interesting tidbit on this from dailykos, which is obviously a far left site; it's not "proof" of anything, but it speaks volumes.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/1/27/1625663/-Ex-Breitbart-Alt-Nazi-promoter-Steve-Bannon-is-author-of-Trump-s-executive-orders

 

[ruby59]

Ok so I also want to bring up the thing Obama put in place in his last weeks in office

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38617615

Since the rapprochement between Washington and Havana began in 2015, Cubans have been bracing themselves for the policy to be cancelled and the past two years have seen a sharp rise in the numbers of people seeking to move to the US while they still can.

But no-one was anticipating this week's sudden announcement.

Mr Manresa and his daughter were in a shelter in Tapachula, south-east Mexico, when they heard the news.

Same? Different? Discuss!


ETA
BTW I think dissenting views are good considering what we're discussing, as long as valid points are made in the discussion at hand. So thanks to all of you. This is how real and substantial dialogue between people gets created

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-mocks-trump-but-has-barred-immigrants-many-muslim-6-times/article/2594016#!!


Obama took this same stance during his Presidency as did other presidents.

 

[wildcat03]

Ok so I also want to bring up the thing Obama put in place in his last weeks in office

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38617615

Since the rapprochement between Washington and Havana began in 2015, Cubans have been bracing themselves for the policy to be cancelled and the past two years have seen a sharp rise in the numbers of people seeking to move to the US while they still can.

But no-one was anticipating this week's sudden announcement.

Mr Manresa and his daughter were in a shelter in Tapachula, south-east Mexico, when they heard the news.

Same? Different? Discuss!


ETA
BTW I think dissenting views are good considering what we're discussing, as long as valid points are made in the discussion at hand. So thanks to all of you. This is how real and substantial dialogue between people gets created

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-mocks-trump-but-has-barred-immigrants-many-muslim-6-times/article/2594016#!!!


Obama took this same stance during his Presidency as did other presidents.

First, I couldn't even read that article as that website is horribly constructed and it wouldn't let me scroll.

Second, The Washington Examiner has about the same credibility as my toilet paper.

 

[monarch64]

I am 100% embarrassed to be an American. I'm not proud to be an American and I'm embarrassed by that, too.

Watched a Netflix series last week called The Eighties. Two of the episodes were about greed, and the subsequent downfall of the likes of Leona Helmsley, etc. Guess who was featured in both? Yup. Our very own POTUS. A greedy human elected by other greedy humans.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Really? (the bolder part) For more than a year, right or wrong aside, people heard and every media outlet (real, fake, domestic and international) replayed him say he would do exactly THIS if elected. How can anyone really claim surprise?

I don't mean warning about a muslim ban, I mean no warning about it taking place immediately. People are being detained at airports, people who've gone through the ALREADY exhaustive process (edit: what katharath said above). It's an absolute clusterf*ck. But, so is Trump, so I guess no one should be surprised by anything coming from his WH anymore.

I don't mean to argue, but yes - he said repeatedly "on day one" ... https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/trump-day-one-promises/514184/

I do agree that - those who have documentation/established residence/green cards, etc., should be released/waived immediately and allowed to return. UNdocumented individuals however - different story. And really, that should be from ANY country, with or without terrorist ties.

 

[katharath]

Ok so I also want to bring up the thing Obama put in place in his last weeks in office

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38617615

Since the rapprochement between Washington and Havana began in 2015, Cubans have been bracing themselves for the policy to be cancelled and the past two years have seen a sharp rise in the numbers of people seeking to move to the US while they still can.

But no-one was anticipating this week's sudden announcement.

Mr Manresa and his daughter were in a shelter in Tapachula, south-east Mexico, when they heard the news.

Same? Different? Discuss!


ETA
BTW I think dissenting views are good considering what we're discussing, as long as valid points are made in the discussion at hand. So thanks to all of you. This is how real and substantial dialogue between people gets created

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-mocks-trump-but-has-barred-immigrants-many-muslim-6-times/article/2594016#!!!


Obama took this same stance during his Presidency as did other presidents.

I'm not going to beat my head against a brick wall trying to explain the difference here, as I know that the layman's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

My one time comment on this - it is, in no way whatsoever, comparable to what Trump has just done.

 

[ruby59]

Ok so I also want to bring up the thing Obama put in place in his last weeks in office

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38617615

Since the rapprochement between Washington and Havana began in 2015, Cubans have been bracing themselves for the policy to be cancelled and the past two years have seen a sharp rise in the numbers of people seeking to move to the US while they still can.

But no-one was anticipating this week's sudden announcement.

Mr Manresa and his daughter were in a shelter in Tapachula, south-east Mexico, when they heard the news.

Same? Different? Discuss!


ETA
BTW I think dissenting views are good considering what we're discussing, as long as valid points are made in the discussion at hand. So thanks to all of you. This is how real and substantial dialogue between people gets created

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-mocks-trump-but-has-barred-immigrants-many-muslim-6-times/article/2594016#!!!!


Obama took this same stance during his Presidency as did other presidents.

First, I couldn't even read that article as that website is horribly constructed and it wouldn't let me scroll.

Second, The Washington Examiner has about the same credibility as my toilet paper.

I scrolled through it just fine. Maybe there is something wrong with your computer.

Do not like this site then put it into google and many other sites come up saying the same exact thing.

 

[katharath]

I am 100% embarrassed to be an American. I'm not proud to be an American and I'm embarrassed by that, too.

Watched a Netflix series last week called The Eighties. Two of the episodes were about greed, and the subsequent downfall of the likes of Leona Helmsley, etc. Guess who was featured in both? Yup. Our very own POTUS. A greedy human elected by other greedy humans.

Oh, I so know those feelings, monarch.

I have yet to see a single good quality in Trump. How pathetic that our president deserves to be featured when the topic is "greed".

ETA - named the wrong boardie, lol.

 

[ruby59]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obama-immigration-ban-muslims/2016/06/16/id/734234/


http://www.mrctv.org/blog/president-obama-agreed-ban-refugees-2011

 

[Matata]

Really? (the bolder part) For more than a year, right or wrong aside, people heard and every media outlet (real, fake, domestic and international) replayed him say he would do exactly THIS if elected. How can anyone really claim surprise?

I don't mean warning about a muslim ban, I mean no warning about it taking place immediately. People are being detained at airports, people who've gone through the ALREADY exhaustive process (edit: what katharath said above). It's an absolute clusterf*ck. But, so is Trump, so I guess no one should be surprised by anything coming from his WH anymore.

I don't mean to argue, but yes - he said repeatedly "on day one" ... https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/trump-day-one-promises/514184/

I do agree that - those who have documentation/established residence/green cards, etc., should be released/waived immediately and allowed to return. UNdocumented individuals however - different story. And really, that should be from ANY country, with or without terrorist ties.

He also said the ACA would be repealed and replaced on day one. He could revoke it tomorrow without warning, leaving millions without care and creating mass confusion much as he had with the Muslim ban. It would have been a humane and polite thing to do to give a heads up to people but we already know he is neither humane nor polite.

 

[wildcat03]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obama-immigration-ban-muslims/2016/06/16/id/734234/


http://www.mrctv.org/blog/president-obama-agreed-ban-refugees-2011

You're right. Barring those who are under a UN travel ban, who undermine democracy, or facilitates transnational criminal organizations is EXACTLY THE SAME as a blanket ban on refugees from a particular country.

It's not. At all. In any way. And you know it.

 

[ruby59]

Ok so I also want to bring up the thing Obama put in place in his last weeks in office

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38617615

Since the rapprochement between Washington and Havana began in 2015, Cubans have been bracing themselves for the policy to be cancelled and the past two years have seen a sharp rise in the numbers of people seeking to move to the US while they still can.

But no-one was anticipating this week's sudden announcement.

Mr Manresa and his daughter were in a shelter in Tapachula, south-east Mexico, when they heard the news.

Same? Different? Discuss!


ETA
BTW I think dissenting views are good considering what we're discussing, as long as valid points are made in the discussion at hand. So thanks to all of you. This is how real and substantial dialogue between people gets created

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-mocks-trump-but-has-barred-immigrants-many-muslim-6-times/article/2594016#!!!!


Obama took this same stance during his Presidency as did other presidents.

I'm not going to beat my head against a brick wall trying to explain the difference here, as I know that the layman's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

My one time comment on this - it is, in no way whatsoever, comparable to what Trump has just done.

Nice try to circumvent the issue brought here that Obama and other Presidents did this as well.

Did they do it because of one incident that happened. Or in this case to stop all the killings and bombings that have occurred from countries that sponsor terrorism.

Yes, insanity, me trying to have a conversation and expecting something other then nastiness.

 

[the_mother_thing]

He also said the ACA would be repealed and replaced on day one. He could revoke it tomorrow without warning, leaving millions without care and creating mass confusion much as he had with the Muslim ban. It would have been a humane and polite thing to do to give a heads up to people but we already know he is neither humane nor polite.

With this, I do not disagree. So here is a pic of my puppy.

 

[ruby59]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obama-immigration-ban-muslims/2016/06/16/id/734234/


http://www.mrctv.org/blog/president-obama-agreed-ban-refugees-2011

You're right. Barring those who are under a UN travel ban, who undermine democracy, or facilitates transnational criminal organizations is EXACTLY THE SAME as a blanket ban on refugees from a particular country.

It's not. At all. In any way. And you know it.

A ban from countries that sponsor terrorism.

 

[ruby59]

He also said the ACA would be repealed and replaced on day one. He could revoke it tomorrow without warning, leaving millions without care and creating mass confusion much as he had with the Muslim ban. It would have been a humane and polite thing to do to give a heads up to people but we already know he is neither humane nor polite.

With this, I do not disagree. So here is a pic of my puppy.

He said he was going to do this when he ran for office. No secret at all.


Edit

According to the news, those two who had been detained, have now been allowed in.

 

[ruby59]

Really? (the bolder part) For more than a year, right or wrong aside, people heard and every media outlet (real, fake, domestic and international) replayed him say he would do exactly THIS if elected. How can anyone really claim surprise?

I don't mean warning about a muslim ban, I mean no warning about it taking place immediately. People are being detained at airports, people who've gone through the ALREADY exhaustive process (edit: what katharath said above). It's an absolute clusterf*ck. But, so is Trump, so I guess no one should be surprised by anything coming from his WH anymore.

I don't mean to argue, but yes - he said repeatedly "on day one" ... https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/trump-day-one-promises/514184/

I do agree that - those who have documentation/established residence/green cards, etc., should be released/waived immediately and allowed to return. UNdocumented individuals however - different story. And really, that should be from ANY country, with or without terrorist ties.

He also said the ACA would be repealed and replaced on day one. He could revoke it tomorrow without warning, leaving millions without care and creating mass confusion much as he had with the Muslim ban. It would have been a humane and polite thing to do to give a heads up to people but we already know he is neither humane nor polite.

Right now with the new year, I am trying to figure out how I am going to afford the humongous deductible.

 

[wildcat03]

Really? (the bolder part) For more than a year, right or wrong aside, people heard and every media outlet (real, fake, domestic and international) replayed him say he would do exactly THIS if elected. How can anyone really claim surprise?

I don't mean warning about a muslim ban, I mean no warning about it taking place immediately. People are being detained at airports, people who've gone through the ALREADY exhaustive process (edit: what katharath said above). It's an absolute clusterf*ck. But, so is Trump, so I guess no one should be surprised by anything coming from his WH anymore.

I don't mean to argue, but yes - he said repeatedly "on day one" ... https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/trump-day-one-promises/514184/

I do agree that - those who have documentation/established residence/green cards, etc., should be released/waived immediately and allowed to return. UNdocumented individuals however - different story. And really, that should be from ANY country, with or without terrorist ties.

He also said the ACA would be repealed and replaced on day one. He could revoke it tomorrow without warning, leaving millions without care and creating mass confusion much as he had with the Muslim ban. It would have been a humane and polite thing to do to give a heads up to people but we already know he is neither humane nor polite.

Right now with the new year, I am trying to figure out how I am going to afford the humongous deductible.

If you think repealing the ACA is going to help you with that, good luck. It's not.

 

[ruby59]

I am 100% embarrassed to be an American. I'm not proud to be an American and I'm embarrassed by that, too.

Watched a Netflix series last week called The Eighties. Two of the episodes were about greed, and the subsequent downfall of the likes of Leona Helmsley, etc. Guess who was featured in both? Yup. Our very own POTUS. A greedy human elected by other greedy humans.

So now middle America is greedy? How about scared?

 

[ruby59]

Really? (the bolder part) For more than a year, right or wrong aside, people heard and every media outlet (real, fake, domestic and international) replayed him say he would do exactly THIS if elected. How can anyone really claim surprise?

I don't mean warning about a muslim ban, I mean no warning about it taking place immediately. People are being detained at airports, people who've gone through the ALREADY exhaustive process (edit: what katharath said above). It's an absolute clusterf*ck. But, so is Trump, so I guess no one should be surprised by anything coming from his WH anymore.

I don't mean to argue, but yes - he said repeatedly "on day one" ... https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/trump-day-one-promises/514184/

I do agree that - those who have documentation/established residence/green cards, etc., should be released/waived immediately and allowed to return. UNdocumented individuals however - different story. And really, that should be from ANY country, with or without terrorist ties.

He also said the ACA would be repealed and replaced on day one. He could revoke it tomorrow without warning, leaving millions without care and creating mass confusion much as he had with the Muslim ban. It would have been a humane and polite thing to do to give a heads up to people but we already know he is neither humane nor polite.

My husband and I had fantastic and affordable health insurance for years, until Obama screwed with it.


Right now with the new year, I am trying to figure out how I am going to afford the humongous deductible.

If you think repealing the ACA is going to help you with that, good luck. It's not.

My husband and I had fantastic and affordable health insurance for years, until Obama screwed with it.

 

[Arcadian]

@Mata, I agree in part with you too. Yes Obama did that pretty suddenly. But by the same token there are many cuban families who were making that trip to be with families in the US and they now can't. Not about religion, no, but the end point is quite the same.

I don't disagree with the action but do with how sudden it was.


The fact that both of these presidents did this by executive order....(which I feel is an overstep of power and way overused) kinda sickens me. Its my belief that T is doing what he saw done...and whatever his team tells him he should do.

@wildcat. I'm not sure if you meant bbc.com as being the one with the issue. but some sites have them...heck I have issues here too. Plenty of times I have to use accessibility options (i.e., mozilla firefox has a read tool thats very helpful) to read certain sites as whatever template they use as their UX/UI design can be lacking.

 

[Dancing Fire]

If you think repealing the ACA is going to help you with that, good luck. It's not.

The unaffordable care act cause HC the election. The Dems. are still in denial. Whether you like it or not Trump is the POTUS.

 

[lovedogs]

I am 100% embarrassed to be an American. I'm not proud to be an American and I'm embarrassed by that, too.

Watched a Netflix series last week called The Eighties. Two of the episodes were about greed, and the subsequent downfall of the likes of Leona Helmsley, etc. Guess who was featured in both? Yup. Our very own POTUS. A greedy human elected by other greedy humans.

Exactly this. I'm nauseous today. It's like I'm living in a nightmare run by a narsistist. Ugh.

 

[wildcat03]

Off topic. Deleted.

 

[Arcadian]

Ladies and gentlemen.

may I ask please that we stay on topic?

ACA is a different topic, of great complexity, and deserves its own thread.

This topic in the OP is of particular interest to many and is equally complex, and I would like to further the dialogue and understanding of it.

Much appreciation

 

[Dancing Fire]

I am 100% embarrassed to be an American. I'm not proud to be an American and I'm embarrassed by that, too.

Watched a Netflix series last week called The Eighties. Two of the episodes were about greed, and the subsequent downfall of the likes of Leona Helmsley, etc. Guess who was featured in both? Yup. Our very own POTUS. A greedy human elected by other greedy humans.

You can say the same had HC won...

 

[OreoRosies86]

It's not just the POTUS (vomit) who is greedy. When people feel vulnerable they get greedy and it's all about ME ME ME. My family, my healthcare, my money, etc. This is what happens when people allow themselves to be manipulated by scare tactics, whether we are talking about health insurance or allowing Muslims to come into the country.

I've said it before, this is what causes societies to break down.

 

[lovedogs]

It's not just the POTUS (vomit) who is greedy. When people feel vulnerable they get greedy and it's all about ME ME ME. My family, my healthcare, my money, etc. This is what happens when people allow themselves to be manipulated by scare tactics, whether we are talking about health insurance or allowing Muslims to come into the country.

I've said it before, this is what causes societies to break down.

And this is how powerful people are able to convince others to agree with their insanity: by scaring them.