POA/bankruptcy/legal type questions

[packrat]

I''m having some issues I hope someone can help me with. Ordinarily it wouldn''t be a big deal, I''d just call the lawyer, but it''s a long holiday weekend and I''m irritated, so thought there might be some words of wisdom to calm my snarliness.

My MIL is in the nursing home, and my husband has POA. Her bills come here, and we''d paid them last month. She has nothing to speak of, no money, no real possessions, so the State has taken over and pays for the nursing home. I was talking to Dr. last Wednesday at work, and mentioned MIL has thousands in credit card bills, and at this rate, with her meager Social Security checks every month, it will take years to pay them all off. Dr. said to tell my husband to immediately file bankruptcy b/c the State will take her SS checks every month now to help offset the nursing home costs. She''s like, "Nobody told you that?" Um, nope. So, I called him right away to tell him...so finally today after I nagged him for a week, he called the lawyer. However-he didn''t ask anything about bankruptcy. Nothing. He said "She''s got some credit card bills racked up", and asked if he needs to sign something or whatever at Human Services so her SS checks go directly to the nursing home. That''s it.

When he got off the phone, I asked about filing bankruptcy. He said the lawyer never said anything about it. I said, well, what did he say to do about the bills? Lawyer said to not pay the bills. I said um, well, we just are supposed to sit here and keep piling up the bills and not do anything with them? Then he started getting ticked at me. I mentioned it might be a good idea to just call the lawyer back and ask specifically, does he need to file bankruptcy for her, just to be on the safe side. He was not happy with this suggestion. I asked how these places were going to know she can''t afford to pay them-he said we''d just call them and say Sorry, she''s in a nursing home and can''t pay you. I said Uh, well, I''m not sure it works that way.

If he''d had early work hours today, I''d''ve just called the lawyer myself and asked. But, he didn''t, and I didn''t want to go behind his back right in front of him.

So, my questions..DOES he need to file bankruptcy for her? And, if he does NOT, is there any way these bills could be dumped on US? It''s over $10,000 in credit card debt. As POA, what are his legal responsibilities?

Like I said, I''d normally just call the lawyer, and I will on Tuesday-but I don''t want to sit and stew about this for the next 4 days.

If anyone has any ideas or knowledge about this stuff I''d really appreciate it!

 

[lulu]

You are not legally responsible for MIL''s debts. I don''t see the point of bankruptcy presuming you don''t care if the nursing home takes her social security checks.

 

[packrat]

Hey lulu! The way I understand it, as far as her SS checks go, is that if you can contribute anything towards your nursing home bill, you are required to, and that''s all she has. The bankruptcy thing, I was wondering about, b/c she''s got all these bills piling up, and otherwise they''re just going to keep coming, and I don''t want to be fielding calls from debt collectors. She''ll never leave the NH. I''ve got a file about 8 inches thick already in 2 months of bills and letters asking for payments.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Date: 9/4/2009 10:46:31 PM
Author: lulu
You are not legally responsible for MIL''s debts. I don''t see the point of bankruptcy presuming you don''t care if the nursing home takes her social security checks.

+1. Since you know that MIL is not going to be leaving the nursing home then there is no point in putting her through a bankruptcy. When she passes, her estate, if any, will pay her debt. If there is no estate then the creditors get nothing.

Also, you, your husband and your respective families are absolutely NOT responsible for her debts when she dies. Do not let her creditors try to guilt you into paying debts that you are not responsible for. I work for a bankruptcy attorney and I get phone calls about this all the time. When she dies, send each creditor a copy of the death certificate along with a certified letter explaining the circumstances and that should nip it in the bud.

I am sorry that you and your husband are going through this; it must be very difficult.

 

[charbie]

as a future nursing home administrator who deals with all of this stuff every day- let me see if i can help!
things work differently state to state with medicaid, but in order for her to qualify for state assistance, they should have researched her debts before assigning her medicaid. is she going to be a long-term resident at the nursing home?

as the POA, your husband has the responsibility to use HER money, not your own, to cover her debts.
her income (ss check) is called a patient liability. this is the money the state retrieves as a way to off-set the cost. since they are providing everything they assume she needs in the nursing home (food, shelter, medications, etc.) they take the ss check. the nursing home gets reimbursed at ~$160/day per resident on medicaid, so they are getting a pretty good deal to only have to pay that ss check. privately it would cost ~$5600/month.
it usually makes things easier if the nursing home becomes the "rep payee" for the resident. that means the ss check will come to the nursing home, and it never even has to be seen by the POA/resident. i would recommend signing that paperwork, and then also checking with the nursing home about how her debts can be covered. in my location, we would have to use the ss check to pay the minimums each month. unfortunately, long term nursing home residents on state assistance pretty much are "bankrupt" anyway.

check with the business office of the nursing home where she is at and see if that helps you get anywhere. let me know how this works out. i wish i could help more, but its so different state to state.

 

[packrat]

Thanks for the replies DD007 and Charbie!

I think husband is going to Human Services to sign the paperwork Tuesday so her SS check goes directly to the NH. She will be a long term resident. There had been the thought right at first last month, that she might at some point be able to leave, but she''s in bad shape, and short of a miracle, I don''t see her leaving.

I''ll have him check w/the NH business office as well, about her debts-thanks for the suggestion Charbie! Her credit card minimum payments every month would take up her whole SS check, or within a few dollars of it.

I just figured there would be a way to "erase" the debt, rather than getting bills every month with increasing interest and late fees-but I''ll have him check w/the NH and see what they say.

 

[lulu]

If she owes $10,000 in credit card debt it is possible that creditors will pursue collection. That could be annoying. The only way to completely eliminate that problem completely would be bankruptcy. You''d think they would lay off an old lady in a nursing home, but no guarantees. Any bankruptcy attys out there?
This is outside the scope of my specialty.. lol

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Date: 9/5/2009 7:06:53 PM
Author: lulu
If she owes $10,000 in credit card debt it is possible that creditors will pursue collection. That could be annoying. The only way to completely eliminate that problem completely would be bankruptcy. You''d think they would lay off an old lady in a nursing home, but no guarantees. Any bankruptcy attys out there?
This is outside the scope of my specialty.. lol

It''s not the amount of debt that matters; it''s the fact that it exists. Collection agencies don''t care if you owe a penny or millions of dollars. If you''re not paying it then they have the right to collect. Filing a Chapter 7 bankruptcy discharges the debt, thus making it uncollectible.

This may seem insensitive, Packrat, but is she near death? If so then don''t bother with the bankruptcy. If she may be around for a while and if you foresee collection problems then I''d consult an attorney that specializes in bankruptcy and get their opinion as to her situation.

 

[packrat]

I don''t think it will be soon, no. I think I''m going to just take the bull by the horns come Tuesday and call the lawyer back and the NH myself and find out what it is exactly that needs to be done. I want to head off any problems, as far as collection agencies and such, calling and harassing us, and having these bills come every month that aren''t going to be paid.

I guess if husband gets ticked at me for finding out myself, then he can just be ticked. She''s relying on him to take care of her business for her since she is totally unable to do it herself, so it needs to be done. I feel better knowing we aren''t, by some loophole, going to be stuck w/her bills, at any rate!