NewEnglandLady
Ideal_Rock
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Pianos
- Thread starter Moh 10
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Diva0413
Brilliant_Rock
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Moh 10
Brilliant_Rock
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I couldn't test several Blüthners of this size, but the US importer who selected it did fly to Lepzig and picked it from four for its singing quality.
There was only one for sale near me but I have been hanging out for years in piano showrooms for Fazioli, Mason and Hamlin, August Förster, Steinway both NY and Hamburg, Bechstein, Steingraeber & Söne, Sauter, Grotrian, and Bösendorfer.
These pianos are all so fine that it comes down to personal preference, not so much which is best.
The Blüthner sound is typically European in that it emphasizes the fundamental rather than the harmonics like the American Steinway or Mason and Hamlin.
But among the Euorpeans the Blüthner has the warmest sound with a sustain that is very long.
The curvature of the soundboard peaks under the bridges over the entire bridge, unlike any other piano which peak in the middle.
They say this aids in sound transfer.
It DOES have a very even sound over the entire compass.
I describe her voice as transparent and crystal clear, well suited to Bach, Mozart and the lush dense harmonies of Ravel.
It is easy to bring out the melody over the background because of how the harmonic content of the hammers change with just a slight increase in pressure.
The action is silky and smooth; it is very easy to play very quietly.
Of course much of this is owed to the techs maintaining it.
ALL pianos need regular voicing and regulation in addition to two tunings a year.
Americans sitting down at a Blüthner usually don't like it at first.
They are so accustomed to the only sound heard and worshiped today in the states, that Steinway sound.
But after about 20 minutes of playing they start to discover the zone and gain access to a very wide tonal palette unlike any other piano.
After an hour you can't pull them away from the piano.
100 years ago there were several fine brands each with their own unique tonal characteristics.
Recordings and the death of many makers have unfortunately resulted in many of us hearing and therefore worshiping only one sound, the Steinway sound.
Don't get me wrong, a good Steinway, well prepared, regulated and voiced, is a fantastic instrument, and I love many aspects of the classic Steinway sound too.
It is just that there is so much more out there and few people in the states get the opportunity to experience these other voices.
There was only one for sale near me but I have been hanging out for years in piano showrooms for Fazioli, Mason and Hamlin, August Förster, Steinway both NY and Hamburg, Bechstein, Steingraeber & Söne, Sauter, Grotrian, and Bösendorfer.
These pianos are all so fine that it comes down to personal preference, not so much which is best.
The Blüthner sound is typically European in that it emphasizes the fundamental rather than the harmonics like the American Steinway or Mason and Hamlin.
But among the Euorpeans the Blüthner has the warmest sound with a sustain that is very long.
The curvature of the soundboard peaks under the bridges over the entire bridge, unlike any other piano which peak in the middle.
They say this aids in sound transfer.
It DOES have a very even sound over the entire compass.
I describe her voice as transparent and crystal clear, well suited to Bach, Mozart and the lush dense harmonies of Ravel.
It is easy to bring out the melody over the background because of how the harmonic content of the hammers change with just a slight increase in pressure.
The action is silky and smooth; it is very easy to play very quietly.
Of course much of this is owed to the techs maintaining it.
ALL pianos need regular voicing and regulation in addition to two tunings a year.
Americans sitting down at a Blüthner usually don't like it at first.
They are so accustomed to the only sound heard and worshiped today in the states, that Steinway sound.
But after about 20 minutes of playing they start to discover the zone and gain access to a very wide tonal palette unlike any other piano.
After an hour you can't pull them away from the piano.
100 years ago there were several fine brands each with their own unique tonal characteristics.
Recordings and the death of many makers have unfortunately resulted in many of us hearing and therefore worshiping only one sound, the Steinway sound.
Don't get me wrong, a good Steinway, well prepared, regulated and voiced, is a fantastic instrument, and I love many aspects of the classic Steinway sound too.
It is just that there is so much more out there and few people in the states get the opportunity to experience these other voices.
luvthemstrawberries
Ideal_Rock
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Moh 10
Brilliant_Rock
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Funny you say that about being a neighbor.
When I got the piano I went to my neighbors and told them I just a huge monster piano.
If it bothers you don't be shy, let me know and I'll find another time to practice.
I was shocked when they said, "OH NO, we love it. We open our windows to hear it better."
Whew!
Of course the repertoire I play, is not very offensive.
Chopin is like ice cream for the ears.
Even neighbors down the street say they enjoy it.
The sound carries well on our hardwood floor on a raised foundation.
When I got the piano I went to my neighbors and told them I just a huge monster piano.
If it bothers you don't be shy, let me know and I'll find another time to practice.
I was shocked when they said, "OH NO, we love it. We open our windows to hear it better."
Whew!
Of course the repertoire I play, is not very offensive.
Chopin is like ice cream for the ears.
Even neighbors down the street say they enjoy it.
The sound carries well on our hardwood floor on a raised foundation.
zhuzhu
Ideal_Rock
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- Mar 15, 2006
- Messages
- 2,503
Congratulations Moh, for your beautiful new piano! My Kawai G30, at 6''2, does not compare to yours in grandness. However I love it just as much! I also made the wool string cover and music stand covers like you did. I can post a few pictures of mine later on.
I do love Bluthner for its richness, deepness in sound and personality. For me Steinway sometimes lacks some "reserveness". Steinway sometimes wants to "command" you whereas Bluthner, Shimmel, or Bosendorfer have the way of "merging in with your personality" to perform what your soul asks to sing for. I love the European pianos!
May you enjoy a lifetime of happiness and joy with your Bluthner!
I do love Bluthner for its richness, deepness in sound and personality. For me Steinway sometimes lacks some "reserveness". Steinway sometimes wants to "command" you whereas Bluthner, Shimmel, or Bosendorfer have the way of "merging in with your personality" to perform what your soul asks to sing for. I love the European pianos!
May you enjoy a lifetime of happiness and joy with your Bluthner!
Oh my, what a beautiful instrument. I''m a pianist myself. When I was five, I begged my parents to buy a piano so I could learn to play, and they bought a used upright. I''ve been playing ever since and I''m still in love with that same old piano... the sound is so beautiful and familiar. I''m not sure I will ever be able to give it up, but I would love to have a grand someday!
Thank you for sharing the photos. There''s nothing like the piano...
Thank you for sharing the photos. There''s nothing like the piano...
Moh 10
Brilliant_Rock
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- Oct 25, 2008
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- 1,004
Zhuzhu I love Kawais.
They are really well made and a dream to tune and work on (I'm a piano tech).
How amazing you also made the same covers. Small world.
Merging with your personality is well put; that is what a great piano does.
It gets out of the way and lets emotion flow from the player to the listener.
I'll tell you when I have piano parties and some good players come over I am in heaven.
They say the pianist has the worst seat in the house and it is true.
Grand pianos are designed to direct the most pleasing balance of sound out away from the player to the audience.
To just sit in my living room with a glass of wine, listen to a good player, close my eyes and float away is just the ultimate.
Here is the bottom of the soundboard.
Look near the bottom of the picture near the middle of the pic.
There is a black curved piece of wood near that corner of the soundboard.
This is called a cutoff bar.
It is glued to the soundboard and improves the sound.
If it was not there vibrations in that sharp corner of the soundboard would make the piano sound worse.
Many grands have this.
They are really well made and a dream to tune and work on (I'm a piano tech).
How amazing you also made the same covers. Small world.
Merging with your personality is well put; that is what a great piano does.
It gets out of the way and lets emotion flow from the player to the listener.
I'll tell you when I have piano parties and some good players come over I am in heaven.
They say the pianist has the worst seat in the house and it is true.
Grand pianos are designed to direct the most pleasing balance of sound out away from the player to the audience.
To just sit in my living room with a glass of wine, listen to a good player, close my eyes and float away is just the ultimate.
Here is the bottom of the soundboard.
Look near the bottom of the picture near the middle of the pic.
There is a black curved piece of wood near that corner of the soundboard.
This is called a cutoff bar.
It is glued to the soundboard and improves the sound.
If it was not there vibrations in that sharp corner of the soundboard would make the piano sound worse.
Many grands have this.
Moh 10
Brilliant_Rock
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MY piano has a humidity control system.
It keeps the air around the soundboard close to 42% relative humidity.
Pianos do not go of tune because of the tuning pins slipping or the strings stretching. (well, NEW strings do stretch)
PIanos go out of tune because the soundboard shrinks and swells with humidity changes.
Soundboards are curved and they are higher in the middle than at the edges.
When it is humid in the summer the board absorbs moisture and swells, just like a sponge does.
This pushes up on the bridge and the strings which makes the piano go sharp.
In the winter when it is dry the opposite happens.
This system keeps the humidity constant so it stays in tune longer.
It also keeps the piano young.
Pianos are mostly wood and there are a zillion glue joints.
When the wood swells and shrinks many times eventually the glue joints become less flexible, weaken and open up.
For most pianos such a system starts at about $400 for a smaller piano but quickly pays for itself since you need fewer tunings and your piano will last longer and remain in better condition.
Below you see two black water tanks hanging and one of the three heater bars in the distance.
It keeps the air around the soundboard close to 42% relative humidity.
Pianos do not go of tune because of the tuning pins slipping or the strings stretching. (well, NEW strings do stretch)
PIanos go out of tune because the soundboard shrinks and swells with humidity changes.
Soundboards are curved and they are higher in the middle than at the edges.
When it is humid in the summer the board absorbs moisture and swells, just like a sponge does.
This pushes up on the bridge and the strings which makes the piano go sharp.
In the winter when it is dry the opposite happens.
This system keeps the humidity constant so it stays in tune longer.
It also keeps the piano young.
Pianos are mostly wood and there are a zillion glue joints.
When the wood swells and shrinks many times eventually the glue joints become less flexible, weaken and open up.
For most pianos such a system starts at about $400 for a smaller piano but quickly pays for itself since you need fewer tunings and your piano will last longer and remain in better condition.
Below you see two black water tanks hanging and one of the three heater bars in the distance.
Moh 10
Brilliant_Rock
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This is the control unit.
It is mounted so its sensors are close to the soundboard.
It turns on the humidifier then the dehumidifier alternately.
It cycles back and forth 24 hours a day.
The system is silent since there are no fans.
I add water about twice a month.
These systems, called Piano Lifesavers or Dammpchasers, are a must if you live in the midwest or northeast or Canada or anywhere humidity varies.
They make them for uprights too.
They don't sell to the public; you have to ask your piano tech to install it since training is required.
It is mounted so its sensors are close to the soundboard.
It turns on the humidifier then the dehumidifier alternately.
It cycles back and forth 24 hours a day.
The system is silent since there are no fans.
I add water about twice a month.
These systems, called Piano Lifesavers or Dammpchasers, are a must if you live in the midwest or northeast or Canada or anywhere humidity varies.
They make them for uprights too.
They don't sell to the public; you have to ask your piano tech to install it since training is required.
klewis
Brilliant_Rock
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luvthemstrawberries
Ideal_Rock
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Moh 10
Brilliant_Rock
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Yes it does have a wonderful smell to it.
Kind of like wood and varnish.
About moving, a grand is actually easier to move than an upright.
They just take the legs and pedal assembly off and turn the piano upright.
When placed on its side a grand is thinner than an upright piano and is not as top heavy.
Getting around corners is the main problem for a long grand.
About polishing, this piano's finish is polyester and you can remove fingerprints easily with a barely damp clean cotton cloth followed by a dry one.
Dust it first since dust is abrasive
I use a sheepskin-on-a-stick duster.
If your piano has a lacquer finish I'd keep water away from it.
There are polishing products especially formulated for pianos, I recommend Cory, that do not contain silicone.
Silicone is an ingredient in Pledge and many other polishes.
If silicone gets between the tuning pins and the pin block your pinblock will be ruined because the wood can no longer grip the tuning pins.
Replacing a pinblock costs several thousand dollars.
Even if you don't spray it near the tuning pins silicone can migrate.
I would not even allow Pledge to be used anywhere in my house.
I don't need to polish it ever since, unless I'm playing, it always has this wool felt cover I made.
Yes it is ugly as sin, but to me the piano's long term health is more important than looks.
It also helps to maintain that 42% relative humidity micro-climate over the entire piano not just the soundboard.
Oh and notice how I just cleaned the living room for this pic I just shot. Hahaha.
I do play ukulele, but not nearly as well as guitar.
Kind of like wood and varnish.
About moving, a grand is actually easier to move than an upright.
They just take the legs and pedal assembly off and turn the piano upright.
When placed on its side a grand is thinner than an upright piano and is not as top heavy.
Getting around corners is the main problem for a long grand.
About polishing, this piano's finish is polyester and you can remove fingerprints easily with a barely damp clean cotton cloth followed by a dry one.
Dust it first since dust is abrasive
I use a sheepskin-on-a-stick duster.
If your piano has a lacquer finish I'd keep water away from it.
There are polishing products especially formulated for pianos, I recommend Cory, that do not contain silicone.
Silicone is an ingredient in Pledge and many other polishes.
If silicone gets between the tuning pins and the pin block your pinblock will be ruined because the wood can no longer grip the tuning pins.
Replacing a pinblock costs several thousand dollars.
Even if you don't spray it near the tuning pins silicone can migrate.
I would not even allow Pledge to be used anywhere in my house.
I don't need to polish it ever since, unless I'm playing, it always has this wool felt cover I made.
Yes it is ugly as sin, but to me the piano's long term health is more important than looks.
It also helps to maintain that 42% relative humidity micro-climate over the entire piano not just the soundboard.
Oh and notice how I just cleaned the living room for this pic I just shot. Hahaha.
I do play ukulele, but not nearly as well as guitar.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2005
- Messages
- 13,009
Moh- I showed DH and he loves loves this!
he says' whenever you're ready to give it a new home we'll take it off your hands
, he was thinking of a steinway (of course it won't happen for at least another 3-5 years though)
ETA: my FIL has a KAWAI which we hope to inherit someday, and we have just a cheapy digital yamaha right now as we keep moving around.
ETA: my FIL has a KAWAI which we hope to inherit someday, and we have just a cheapy digital yamaha right now as we keep moving around.
Moh 10
Brilliant_Rock
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Anyone even thinking of buying a piano from a modest one to the finest MUST read this book:
The Piano Book, Buying & Owning a New or Used Piano, by Larry Fine.
ISBN 1-929145-01-2.
It costs about $20.
It is Piano 101.
You can really get ripped off buying a piano and this book will teach you sooooo much not just about pianos but the piano market.
They also produce semi-annual supplements that update you on the newest prices and what is happening to the companies.
I will say this Steinway is the best piano MARKETER in the world, but not the best piano maker.
They have the public snowed, especially in the US where access to the many fine European makes is limited, a chicken and egg thing.
Over the years Steinway has done many unethical things in the background to keep other pianos brands off concert stages and strong-armed pianists who dare to play other brands.
Most Steinways are sold as status symbols to people who do not play and they take advantage of that.
Take your time to get educated about Steinway and all the other fine brands.
Then if you still want a Steinway carefully pick a good one and find the best tech in town to finish it.
Yes they do not bother with about 40 to 80 hours of the expensive final prep work.
Why should they?
Most customers are ignorant of this and don't play anyway.
They just want a pretty piece of furniture with the Steinway logo, that has 3 pedals, and 88 keys that make sound.
But if your goal is to impress 99% of the public buy a Steinway, not one of the better but little-known pianos.
I love when someone comes over and says, "Do you want a Steinway someday?"
Rant over.
Again some Steinways CAN be fabulous.
The two largest models the B and D get better materials and craftsmen working on them but still there are plenty of lemon Bs and Ds too.
The Piano Book, Buying & Owning a New or Used Piano, by Larry Fine.
ISBN 1-929145-01-2.
It costs about $20.
It is Piano 101.
You can really get ripped off buying a piano and this book will teach you sooooo much not just about pianos but the piano market.
They also produce semi-annual supplements that update you on the newest prices and what is happening to the companies.
I will say this Steinway is the best piano MARKETER in the world, but not the best piano maker.
They have the public snowed, especially in the US where access to the many fine European makes is limited, a chicken and egg thing.
Over the years Steinway has done many unethical things in the background to keep other pianos brands off concert stages and strong-armed pianists who dare to play other brands.
Most Steinways are sold as status symbols to people who do not play and they take advantage of that.
Take your time to get educated about Steinway and all the other fine brands.
Then if you still want a Steinway carefully pick a good one and find the best tech in town to finish it.
Yes they do not bother with about 40 to 80 hours of the expensive final prep work.
Why should they?
Most customers are ignorant of this and don't play anyway.
They just want a pretty piece of furniture with the Steinway logo, that has 3 pedals, and 88 keys that make sound.
But if your goal is to impress 99% of the public buy a Steinway, not one of the better but little-known pianos.
I love when someone comes over and says, "Do you want a Steinway someday?"
Rant over.
Again some Steinways CAN be fabulous.
The two largest models the B and D get better materials and craftsmen working on them but still there are plenty of lemon Bs and Ds too.
Cind11
Brilliant_Rock
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- Feb 5, 2004
- Messages
- 1,959
do you somewhat educate others when they ask you that?But if your goal is to impress 99% of the public buy a Steinway, not one of the better but little-known pianos.
I love when someone comes over and says, 'Do you want a Steinway someday?'
Rant over.
Again some Steinways CAN be fabulous.
The two largest models the B and D get better materials and craftsmen working on them but still there are plenty of lemon Bs and Ds too.
as for us -not really, DH wants FIL's Kawai for the most part (however, not sure when we would be able to get it from him, unless he passes on, or we would have to pay him for it
Moh 10
Brilliant_Rock
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- Oct 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,004
do you somewhat educate others when they ask you that?
It depends.
If they already own a Steinway or there is little time, no.
as for us -not really, DH wants FIL's Kawai for the most part (however, not sure when we would be able to get it from him, unless he passes on, or we would have to pay him for itwe haven't discussed it in seriousness though- really and since I dont know much about piano and SIL does (she seems to think steinway was the way to go), but you are right, they are good marketer - SIL ended up with a "temporary" Boston (DH doesn't like the way it sounds when he plays it)- even though most of her life she always thought she wanted a steinway (maybe it was the status symbol, or I hope to think it was more the sound and craftsmanship)
Boston is made by Kawai in Japan for Steinway and is really just a Kawai with a several thousand dollar premium tacked on because of the Steinway association.
The design differences are negligible and frankly I prefer Kawai's ABS parts which Steinway refuses to let them use on the Bostons.
I'd save my money and just get a Kawai.
You know what piano brand is a sleeper?
Estonia.
Estonias sound and feel superb and are half the price of a similarly-sized Steinway.
They only make grands.
Build quality is absolutely first rate too.
Estonias are an extraordinary value.
If your budget is about $7000 get a Charles Walter upright, built in Indiana and is a superb value.
Today's Mason and Hamlin grands are superb and you can get them at around 30% off list if you negotiate.
I have toured their factory in Haverhill MA twice and Steinway's factory in NY and there is no comparison.
Mason and Hamlin kicks Stienway's butt.
I also have to mention that evaluating pianos is tough.
To truly compare brands both have to not only be in good tune but need to be regulated and voiced. Few pianos are.
Finding a good tech to not only tune but maintain your piano is as important as finding a good piano.
It depends.
If they already own a Steinway or there is little time, no.
as for us -not really, DH wants FIL's Kawai for the most part (however, not sure when we would be able to get it from him, unless he passes on, or we would have to pay him for itwe haven't discussed it in seriousness though- really and since I dont know much about piano and SIL does (she seems to think steinway was the way to go), but you are right, they are good marketer - SIL ended up with a "temporary" Boston (DH doesn't like the way it sounds when he plays it)- even though most of her life she always thought she wanted a steinway (maybe it was the status symbol, or I hope to think it was more the sound and craftsmanship)
Boston is made by Kawai in Japan for Steinway and is really just a Kawai with a several thousand dollar premium tacked on because of the Steinway association.
The design differences are negligible and frankly I prefer Kawai's ABS parts which Steinway refuses to let them use on the Bostons.
I'd save my money and just get a Kawai.
You know what piano brand is a sleeper?
Estonia.
Estonias sound and feel superb and are half the price of a similarly-sized Steinway.
They only make grands.
Build quality is absolutely first rate too.
Estonias are an extraordinary value.
If your budget is about $7000 get a Charles Walter upright, built in Indiana and is a superb value.
Today's Mason and Hamlin grands are superb and you can get them at around 30% off list if you negotiate.
I have toured their factory in Haverhill MA twice and Steinway's factory in NY and there is no comparison.
Mason and Hamlin kicks Stienway's butt.
I also have to mention that evaluating pianos is tough.
To truly compare brands both have to not only be in good tune but need to be regulated and voiced. Few pianos are.
Finding a good tech to not only tune but maintain your piano is as important as finding a good piano.
zhuzhu
Ideal_Rock
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vespergirl
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princesss
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cellososweet
Brilliant_Rock
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SOOOOOO BEAUTIFUL! CONGRATS!
I have to agree with the above 100%. I love Chopin so much that my whole entire wedding ceremony was Chopin. Among other pieces, I walked down the aisle to Oleg Boshniakovich's interpretation of Mazurka Op. 67 No. 4 in A minor and we walked back up together to Waltz Op. 64 No.2 C#minor
I drove my DJ insane because I insisted it be his versions. I guess they are hard to find. Haha. Poor guy. He got a nice tip out of it though
Moh 10
Brilliant_Rock
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Zhu that is very very clever.
I would have never thought of magnets.
You are so smart to use a string cover.
Few pianists know about these.
I admit my fishing line looks very tacky and it is there in plain view when I have guests over and I remove the string cover.
I made little wood triangles to hold the wire up.
They are not glued, they just rest there.
Here is a view of them from the keyboard.
I would have never thought of magnets.
You are so smart to use a string cover.
Few pianists know about these.
I admit my fishing line looks very tacky and it is there in plain view when I have guests over and I remove the string cover.
I made little wood triangles to hold the wire up.
They are not glued, they just rest there.
Here is a view of them from the keyboard.
Moh 10
Brilliant_Rock
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Moh 10
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Moh 10
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Moh 10
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