Penn State Question

[kenny]

I did NOT go to a fancy school.
In fact I do not even have a bachelor's degree.
I'm ignorant about academia.
I know many here have fine educations and are also well versed in the "culture" surrounding respected schools.
Hence this thread.

It's coming out that for many years higher ups in the University knew about the child abuse and did little to protect the kids or bring the perp, coach Jerry Sandusky, to justice.

Okay, but what does that really have to do with the math department?

They finally caught the bad guy and he's in jail.
Other higher ups are on their way to justice too.
Reforms to prevent this will surely follow.

Will everyone just put this behind them and leave no stain on the institution, staff, students and alumni?
Individuals were bad, not the institution.

Can this scandal actually make Penn State a less desirable school to apply for or graduate from?
Will employers be less likely to hire graduates?
Could Penn State lose funding, accreditation?
Will alumni stop bringing their Penn State coffee cups to meetings at work?

 

[VRBeauty]

1. Okay, but what does that really have to do with the math department?

2. Will everyone just put this behind them and leave no stain on the institution, staff, students and alumni?

3. Individuals were bad, not the institution.

4. Can this scandal actually make Penn State a less desirable school to apply for or graduate from?
5. Will employers be less likely to hire graduates?
6. Could Penn State lose funding, accreditation?
7. Will alumni stop bringing their Penn State coffee cups to meetings at work?

Here's my take on it -
1 - nothing
2 - no, this will be associated with Penn state for a long, long time. How depends in part on how the university responds from here
3 - the institution was so associated with its football program, and apparently so dependent and deferential to its football program, that 1) the higher-ups in the football program did not feel accountable to the university (or, I might add, moral decency) and 2) mere mortals felt it wouldn't be worthwhile or wise to report their suspicions, because it was associated with the football program
4 - I think so, especially for those interested in very competitive fields that value pedigree (law, for example)
5 - see 4
6 - accreditation - not likely. funding? maybe some sports-related funding. Alumni donations - likely
7 - definitely, some will

 

[MissGotRocks]

I think that people will be able to separate this case from the university - much the same way they have at Virginia Tech after that horrible shooting. The things that have appealed to kids for ages regarding this school will still do so. It's a terrible tragedy for those young men and hopefully they feel some justice has been done. I wouldn't expect to see a large drop in their admissions.

 

[Tuckins1]

I absolutely think it will tarnish people's thoughts on the institution, because as soon as someone mentions "Penn State", most people's brains will automatically associate that name with this scandal. It will be the very first thing that pops into someone's mind. Perhaps, after a split second, then a person would remember the great programs and quality education, but that first gut reaction will be a negative one, associating that name with a disgusting man/ crime.

 

[ksinger]

The entire culture at Penn State is part of the problem, so while individuals may not bear the blame, their participation in the near-hero-worship of Paterno et al, means that there needs to be a bunch of soul-searching. (Remember those ugly student riots when the Great God Paterno was fired?)

Those in the football program would not have wielded so much power if the surrounding culture - the STUDENTS and the community at large - had not treated them like gods. And the culture surrounding sports in general but football in particular, is extremely corrosive to doing right. And it starts in the highschools - my husband has many tales over the years of "incidents" - grade and attendance issues, even some crimes, being swept under the rug so a particularly good student athlete doesn't lose eligibility to play. Penn State had to power to demand and receive ridiculous waivers for disclosures of all sorts of information regarding the football program, and even waivers on adhering to the state law on reporting child abuse. Believe me, around the country sports programs are often not very keen on transparency at the highschool level either.

So this is nothing new - I'm sure there are many similar things that have happened or are happening even now, in college sports programs all over the country. Penn State just took it to an insane level.

College sports is HUUUUGE money and power, ask youself what happens when you mix money, power, image, and a WHOLE LOT Of testosterone, and it shouldn't be any surprise this happened. And reforms will only be minimally effective as long as sports is treated like religion, with all the blind faith that implies. What surprises me at every turn is that so many people are so freakin' gullible as to believe that anyone could be as saintly as Paterno was thought to be, just because he was a winning coach. The man turned out to be a fraud and a liar.

You know, (and I'm hardly the first to make this connection) this is really just like the Catholic Church pedophile problem, only on a smaller level....

If you have not read the actual Freeh report, I suggest you do Kenny, it has quite a bit to say about the individuals AND the institution, which you seem to be giving a pass. Freeh does not, not by a long shot. The institution is HOW this happened, and it is hammered in the report.

edited to add the link to the actual report: http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/

 

[FrekeChild]

I think it will. Lasting effects won't be known for a while though. Certainly the football prestige will never be the same.

 

[Kaleigh]

I think this will hurt the school long term. How could it not??

Joe chose to turn his head and not address it. Same thing happened to me.

I feel for the victims, and pray they will get some healing, some closure. Although that's a really rough road.

The fact is it was a cover up for 14 years... I have no words for that.

 

[aviastar]

This article sums up my feelings fairly well:
http://www.slate.com/articles/sport...ting_the_nittany_lions_on_the_sidelines_.html

1) This incident (series of incidents?) demonstrates an amazing lack of institutional control; Penn State, The Institution, is certainly responsible for it's own egregious lack of control over it's football program and should be held responsible for it.

2) This terrible, inhumane, criminal act, the subsequent long term cover up and the attitude and response of the Penn State community indicate a culture which is disturbing in it's lack of compassion and moral fortitude, not to mention an obvious lack of focus on academics- the purpose of an academic institution- and it should reflect on the school negatively.

3) The NCAA may sideline the program, which might break the culture and allow the school to refocus, but it would be a far more powerful statement, and ultimately, I think, do more for the image and continued success of the university as a whole for the student body, alumni, and faculty/governing body to choose to sideline the program indicating remorse and a desire to change the current culture for the better.

On a different note, I think the comparison to VaTech is unsupportable; that was a lone student, not an incident of institutional culture or cover up and there was a great deal of remorse, compassion, and effort to change policies and practices on the part of the university immediately afterward. I'm admitting my bias here- my husband was there during the shooting and lost a good friend and teammate. But I think a better comparision might be the Duke Lacrosse scandal- even though that turned out to be a false accusation, the program and the players have suffered a significant loss of reputation and people lost their jobs uneccesarily for a perceived lack of insitutional control over the team. Penn State has a real and serious lack of insitutional control and I can't imagine they won't suffer long term consequenses now that it has come to light.

 

[ksinger]

Well, it's certainly been interesting reading not only the report, but the reactions. Some of them just make you want to pound your head in frustration. A selection below.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/14/2896017/penn-states-joe-paterno-just-the.html

http://www.newswest9.com/story/19025708/penn-staters-tire-of-unhappy-scandal-in-the-valley
excerpts....
'....they worry about the NCAA punishing their beloved football program, or even shutting it down.'
Really?? Beloved? Beloved is the word I use for my husband, family, friends, and my dog, NOT football. Proof positive that many people still just don't get it. Lives were destroyed for that stupid game, and you are going to have to forgive me if it makes me find rabid fandom even more distasteful than ever. I say shut that program down for a few years and let the students refocus on being students and NOT fans.

'....Shevchek, 18, said she believes no such crime will ever happen again at Penn State - or any other college, for that matter.'

I nearly laughed up a lung at this. I didn't think even an 18 year old could be THAT naive, but maybe that's why so many students rioted. No real life experience yet , and no self-control either, apparently.

 

[MissGotRocks]

The entire culture at Penn State is part of the problem, so while individuals may not bear the blame, their participation in the near-hero-worship of Paterno et al, means that there needs to be a bunch of soul-searching. (Remember those ugly student riots when the Great God Paterno was fired?)

Those in the football program would not have wielded so much power if the surrounding culture - the STUDENTS and the community at large - had not treated them like gods. And the culture surrounding sports in general but football in particular, is extremely corrosive to doing right. And it starts in the highschools - my husband has many tales over the years of "incidents" - grade and attendance issues, even some crimes, being swept under the rug so a particularly good student athlete doesn't lose eligibility to play. Penn State had to power to demand and receive ridiculous waivers for disclosures of all sorts of information regarding the football program, and even waivers on adhering to the state law on reporting child abuse. Believe me, around the country sports programs are often not very keen on transparency at the highschool level either.

So this is nothing new - I'm sure there are many similar things that have happened or are happening even now, in college sports programs all over the country. Penn State just took it to an insane level.

College sports is HUUUUGE money and power, ask youself what happens when you mix money, power, image, and a WHOLE LOT Of testosterone, and it shouldn't be any surprise this happened. And reforms will only be minimally effective as long as sports is treated like religion, with all the blind faith that implies. What surprises me at every turn is that so many people are so freakin' gullible as to believe that anyone could be as saintly as Paterno was thought to be, just because he was a winning coach. The man turned out to be a fraud and a liar.

You know, (and I'm hardly the first to make this connection) this is really just like the Catholic Church pedophile problem, only on a smaller level....
If you have not read the actual Freeh report, I suggest you do Kenny, it has quite a bit to say about the individuals AND the institution, which you seem to be giving a pass. Freeh does not, not by a long shot. The institution is HOW this happened, and it is hammered in the report.

edited to add the link to the actual report: http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/

And just this - people have a way of acknowledging something bad and then rationalizing it so that it still fits their needs - particularly if they still want to be a part of the Penn State 'culture'. It's no small matter and the emphasis placed on sports at any level today is mind boggling. However, because scores of people want the sports and the church more than they want moral responsibility, they will still apply to Penn State and the football program will still exist and thrive. Money talks, BS walks.

Don't misunderstand - I don't disagree with any of what you have said. The whole of Penn State decided to deal with this in such a way as to protect the institution and the football program. Why? The almighty dollar at work again. Paterno is dead, Sandusky jailed, and the other key folks fired. Problem solved - they are ready to move on. The Catholic church had to sell off many of its holdings to pay settlements to individuals. Did they ever look at the structure of the church with an eye toward making real changes to insure this kind of thing wouldn't happen again? No, they just paid the money and now go on with business as usual. Surely none of us can be naive enough to think these types of things won't occur again.

 

[justginger]

I don't "do" football, especially at a college level - I went to small liberal arts college where the football games were at the same level as local high school games. Consequently, not only had I never heard of Penn State being anything special in any way whatsoever prior to this drama, but despite effort to do so, now I can NOT wrap my head around any sports department being so all powerful and protected. I don't understand how a college level athletics department can be revered, worshipped. It falls out of my realm of experience and understanding by MILES.

Therefore, Penn State has been annihilated in my brain. This is all I know of the school. I imagine there are other people just like me around the country...and around the world. I think it will affect how ALL Penn State graduates are perceived, regardless of whether it *should.*

 

[kenny]

I agree with many of you.
I can't wrap my head around how football can be THIS important to so many people.
I entirely don't get it, never have.

Beyond just not being into sports I actually have very negative associations about competitive sports.
Back in the 1960s and 70s we used to have a mandatory thing called PE, physical education, in grades 7 through 12.
We were taught, and had to play, all the major sports popular at the time.
(I hear it is not mandatory at many schools now.)

People vary, kids vary, some are more skilled physically or mentally inclined to want to whoop some @ss than others.
The way teams were picked was pretty cruel.
The teacher picked two students to lead.
Each leader took turns selecting one boy from the group till all were picked and assigned to a team.
I was usually last or near last to be picked.
This did wonders for my self confidence.

I wonder if they still do this or have a random way that does not publicly reinforce that some kids are wanted and some not.

Anyway IMHO there is an evil aspect to competitive sports.
"We are better than you. We will conquer you, and get bragging rights. Rah Rah Rah!"
It's about power and inequality, and strikes me as barbaric.
I just don't get it.

It does not surprise me that men who are into arrogance, power and dominance, be it in football or that other organization also may be more likely than the general population to be pedophiles, which is the ultimate power trip.

While I'm not certainly not glad this scandal happened since children were harmed, I'm glad the dark side of football culture's power and corruption is getting scrutiny and being questioned.

 

[sonnyjane]

Kenny- a couple of things jumped out at me reading your post.

The first is that I'm not sure what is done currently in schools (many have cut PE altogether), but when I was in middle school 15 years ago, teams were picked the same way, and I was almost always last to be picked as well. HOWEVER, outside of school, I was a swimmer and an accomplished one at that. I ended up going to college on an athletic scholarship. My participation in that particular competitive sport was one of the most formative parts of my life. It taught me discipline and good sportsmanship and I'm quite a proponent of getting kids involved in organized sports to help them develop skills outside of just the classroom. I don't see the "rah rah better than you" pride over sports being too terribly different from those that tout graduating from Harvard Law over Yale, etc. It's a sense of pride in one's accomplishments, even if seems a bit boastful.

All that said, sports like swimming, softball, volleyball, and soccer have NOTHING on the big guns of men's NCAA Division I baseball, basketball, and most particularly football. I graduated from the University of Miami and was there when we won our most recent national championship for the 2001 season. I can assure you that the mentality is TOTALLY different for those sports. My university has also had a fair amount of public scandals and they wanted to give us the "death penalty" as well. Swimming doesn't bring in big bucks, but football does. Football brings in millions and millions in tickets, merchandise, attracts donors, and certainly helps to recruit new students. My friend works in admissions there and in years after a good football season, applications increase about 30-40% over the number of applicants after a bad season. That's just the reality, and while I in NO way condone PSU's cover-up, I'm trying to help you and the other PP that couldn't understand the allure of college football how they wanted to do everything possible to protect the team's image. It is absolutely wrong, but I can see how greed would overpower them.

I have a very close friend that graduated from PSU in 2002. He is already established in his career and I don't think that PSU on his resume will hurt him beyond being a possible topic of conversation in an interview, however I do have to say that, while absolutely unjust, I think recent grads entering the field right now are probably going to deal with a social stigma even though they had nothing to do with this scandal.

 

[ksinger]

Kenny- a couple of things jumped out at me reading your post.

The first is that I'm not sure what is done currently in schools (many have cut PE altogether), but when I was in middle school 15 years ago, teams were picked the same way, and I was almost always last to be picked as well. HOWEVER, outside of school, I was a swimmer and an accomplished one at that. I ended up going to college on an athletic scholarship. My participation in that particular competitive sport was one of the most formative parts of my life. It taught me discipline and good sportsmanship and I'm quite a proponent of getting kids involved in organized sports to help them develop skills outside of just the classroom. I don't see the "rah rah better than you" pride over sports being too terribly different from those that tout graduating from Harvard Law over Yale, etc. It's a sense of pride in one's accomplishments, even if seems a bit boastful.

All that said, sports like swimming, softball, volleyball, and soccer have NOTHING on the big guns of men's NCAA Division I baseball, basketball, and most particularly football. I graduated from the University of Miami and was there when we won our most recent national championship for the 2001 season. I can assure you that the mentality is TOTALLY different for those sports. My university has also had a fair amount of public scandals and they wanted to give us the "death penalty" as well. Swimming doesn't bring in big bucks, but football does. Football brings in millions and millions in tickets, merchandise, attracts donors, and certainly helps to recruit new students. My friend works in admissions there and in years after a good football season, applications increase about 30-40% over the number of applicants after a bad season. That's just the reality, and while I in NO way condone PSU's cover-up, I'm trying to help you and the other PP that couldn't understand the allure of college football how they wanted to do everything possible to protect the team's image. It is absolutely wrong, but I can see how greed would overpower them.

I have a very close friend that graduated from PSU in 2002. He is already established in his career and I don't think that PSU on his resume will hurt him beyond being a possible topic of conversation in an interview, however I do have to say that, while absolutely unjust, I think recent grads entering the field right now are probably going to deal with a social stigma even though they had nothing to do with this scandal.

Well, I think we all can understand the obsession with football from the perspective of the university seeing it as big $$$ signs. What Kenny, and many others I suspect, don't get, is the psychology of fandom. And THAT is extremely complicated. You know, I remember reading about a study where people watching sports were hooked up so that the brain could be monitored during the viewing. Researchers found that the viewers' brains lit up in an echo of the areas of the brain that are lit up in the athletes themselves during competition. Literally, it was a vicarious thrill. So there's that brain-addictive little nugget. But there is also tribalism (having a team/group association to claim: MY team!!!), and in the case of football, a socially sanctioned outlet for aggression both as a player and a fan. Not to mention the fact that it is HYPERmale. Honestly, as a woman I have NO idea what any woman would get out of watching - I have no personal experience to remember back on never having played football myself, and I can see more skin at a track meet or a swimming competition after all, although I know many who do and are as rabid as the men about it. Probably the group social aspect more than anything, for women.

As for enrollments going up due to a winning season, well, that's just emotional stupidity if you ask me. Unless you're a player, there is no reason that should have any bearing whatsoever on someone's choice of EDUCATIONAL institution. But then the people making decisions in that manner are not likely to be introspective, deep thinkers anyway. And the big money interests are counting on just that emotionalism to keep them in dough and power.

 

[Tuckins1]

The entire culture at Penn State is part of the problem, so while individuals may not bear the blame, their participation in the near-hero-worship of Paterno et al, means that there needs to be a bunch of soul-searching. (Remember those ugly student riots when the Great God Paterno was fired?)

Those in the football program would not have wielded so much power if the surrounding culture - the STUDENTS and the community at large - had not treated them like gods. And the culture surrounding sports in general but football in particular, is extremely corrosive to doing right. And it starts in the highschools - my husband has many tales over the years of "incidents" - grade and attendance issues, even some crimes, being swept under the rug so a particularly good student athlete doesn't lose eligibility to play. Penn State had to power to demand and receive ridiculous waivers for disclosures of all sorts of information regarding the football program, and even waivers on adhering to the state law on reporting child abuse. Believe me, around the country sports programs are often not very keen on transparency at the highschool level either.

So this is nothing new - I'm sure there are many similar things that have happened or are happening even now, in college sports programs all over the country. Penn State just took it to an insane level.

College sports is HUUUUGE money and power, ask youself what happens when you mix money, power, image, and a WHOLE LOT Of testosterone, and it shouldn't be any surprise this happened. And reforms will only be minimally effective as long as sports is treated like religion, with all the blind faith that implies. What surprises me at every turn is that so many people are so freakin' gullible as to believe that anyone could be as saintly as Paterno was thought to be, just because he was a winning coach. The man turned out to be a fraud and a liar.

You know, (and I'm hardly the first to make this connection) this is really just like the Catholic Church pedophile problem, only on a smaller level....

If you have not read the actual Freeh report, I suggest you do Kenny, it has quite a bit to say about the individuals AND the institution, which you seem to be giving a pass. Freeh does not, not by a long shot. The institution is HOW this happened, and it is hammered in the report.

edited to add the link to the actual report: http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/

I have only read through a small portion of this, but it is so disturbing... It really did go all the way to the top, and nothing was done.

 

[sonnyjane]

Not to mention the fact that it is HYPERmale. Honestly, as a woman I have NO idea what any woman would get out of watching - I have no personal experience to remember back on never having played football myself, and I can see more skin at a track meet or a swimming competition after all, although I know many who do and are as rabid as the men about it. Probably the group social aspect more than anything, for women.

As for enrollments going up due to a winning season, well, that's just emotional stupidity if you ask me. Unless you're a player, there is no reason that should have any bearing whatsoever on someone's choice of EDUCATIONAL institution. But then the people making decisions in that manner are not likely to be introspective, deep thinkers anyway. And the big money interests are counting on just that emotionalism to keep them in dough and power.

I still prefer college football to the NFL, but I don't get into it as much as I did, say, when I was still in college or in the few years after I graduated. I used to watch the games because I knew the players, had classes with them, hung out with them in the weight room, etc. You wanted to cheer them on. Now that I don't know anyone on the field anymore, I don't get very involved in the games.

As for the enrollment part, it's not necessarily that kids want to go to the winning school. The correlation has to do somewhat with publicity. When a team is winning, their games are televised, and if the make a bowl game, they get even more publicity. Each game that's on TV is basically a two-hour commercial for your school, raising awareness and getting your school's name out there. If you were in the fence about whether to go to either Pitt or Penn State and Penn State won their division the year that you were deciding, although probably totally unreasonable, I can see that helping to tip someone over the fence.

 

[radiantquest]

In my own household the opinion is split. We were gearing my stepdaughter to go to Penn State on a Volleyball scholarship. She has even played there a few times.

DH feels that this has nothing to do with the education that is received at Penn State. He still wants her to go there. He did say that he heard that they are going to shut down the football program, but not sure whether it is temporary or permanent. College football is big money for universities. I am not sure that Penn State can really continue at their level without those funds. Sure there is still tuition, but anyone that has been to the school knows that even with the amount of money they have been making the school is still in bad (structure) shape. Without the money brought in with the football program, I don't think they can keep going.

I think that Penn State is really on a downward slide and it will never recover. Regardless of whether the guilty parties are coming to justice, the fact still remains that the Penn State establishment doesn't seem morally sound to me. I think that no matter what, I will always wrinkle my nose at Penn States name from here on out because of this. Penn State is/was a great school, but there are plenty more out there that don't have a reputation of child abuse and I imagine that other parents will feel as I do and rather send their child to a school without the stigma in the future.

 

[kenny]

What Kenny, and many others I suspect, don't get, is the psychology of fandom. And THAT is extremely complicated. You know, I remember reading about a study where people watching sports were hooked up so that the brain could be monitored during the viewing. Researchers found that the viewers' brains lit up in an echo of the areas of the brain that are lit up in the athletes themselves during competition. Literally, it was a vicarious thrill. So there's that brain-addictive little nugget. But there is also tribalism (having a team/group association to claim: MY team!!!), and in the case of football, a socially sanctioned outlet for aggression both as a player and a fan. Not to mention the fact that it is HYPERmale.

Yes yes yes, I DO get it.
There's a large local business district that is very pedestrian friendly.
We love going there for a stroll to just visit the shops and restaurants.

There is a huge sports bar with those sliding glass door/window/wall thingies that open completely.
It is like the front to the building vanishes.
You can see the 10 huge large screen TVs on the walls and men, and a few women are screaming and hollering, hugging and crying.

I totally get that in their minds they ARE playing.
The care SSSSSSOOOOOOOOOO much about their team winning.
It is like THEY themselves personally won and get bragging rights when they go to work monday morning.

I think of watching sports as an oxymoron, a masturbation if you will.
You are not actually doing it, but in your mind it feels like you are.
Like football? Go play it.

Then again, people vary.

 

[ksinger]

The entire culture at Penn State is part of the problem, so while individuals may not bear the blame, their participation in the near-hero-worship of Paterno et al, means that there needs to be a bunch of soul-searching. (Remember those ugly student riots when the Great God Paterno was fired?)

Those in the football program would not have wielded so much power if the surrounding culture - the STUDENTS and the community at large - had not treated them like gods. And the culture surrounding sports in general but football in particular, is extremely corrosive to doing right. And it starts in the highschools - my husband has many tales over the years of "incidents" - grade and attendance issues, even some crimes, being swept under the rug so a particularly good student athlete doesn't lose eligibility to play. Penn State had to power to demand and receive ridiculous waivers for disclosures of all sorts of information regarding the football program, and even waivers on adhering to the state law on reporting child abuse. Believe me, around the country sports programs are often not very keen on transparency at the highschool level either.

So this is nothing new - I'm sure there are many similar things that have happened or are happening even now, in college sports programs all over the country. Penn State just took it to an insane level.

College sports is HUUUUGE money and power, ask youself what happens when you mix money, power, image, and a WHOLE LOT Of testosterone, and it shouldn't be any surprise this happened. And reforms will only be minimally effective as long as sports is treated like religion, with all the blind faith that implies. What surprises me at every turn is that so many people are so freakin' gullible as to believe that anyone could be as saintly as Paterno was thought to be, just because he was a winning coach. The man turned out to be a fraud and a liar.

You know, (and I'm hardly the first to make this connection) this is really just like the Catholic Church pedophile problem, only on a smaller level....

If you have not read the actual Freeh report, I suggest you do Kenny, it has quite a bit to say about the individuals AND the institution, which you seem to be giving a pass. Freeh does not, not by a long shot. The institution is HOW this happened, and it is hammered in the report.

edited to add the link to the actual report: http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/

I have only read through a small portion of this, but it is so disturbing... It really did go all the way to the top, and nothing was done.

As for it going all the way to the top, well, here are the words of Barry Switzer (from back when the issue broke) - no stranger to scandal himself, albeit nothing of Penn State's level - about the Penn State debacle...

"Former Oklahoma University and Dallas Cowboys coach Barry Switzer says members of the Penn State coaching staff had to be aware of former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky’s alleged behavior.

“Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret. Everyone on that had to have known, the ones that had been around a long time,” Switzer said in an interview with The Oklahoman newspaper.


Former Oklahoma University and Dallas Cowboys coach Barry Switzer says members of the Penn State coaching staff had to be aware of former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky’s alleged behavior. Switzer added that others outside the Penn State program had to have known as well.

“You think that a 13-year assistant ... hasn’t told someone else? His wife? His father? People knew. The community knew,” Switzer said.

Switzer said the tragedy of the situation was that no one stepped up to put a stop to Sandusky.

“There are more people culpable than just Joe Paterno and the athletic director. There are so many other people that have thought, ‘I could’ve done something about this, too’ that didn’t come forward. That’s the tragedy of it,” he said.

Switzer said that the university's trustees did the right thing by firing by Paterno on Wednesday night, but added that "there are no winners here.”

A grand jury indicted Sandusky on 40 charges of sexual abuse involving minors.

Switzer was forced to resign from Oklahoma in 1989 after the NCAA placed the football program on probation. The problems that drove Switzer out at OU, however, were nothing like what is going on at Penn State.

The Hall of Fame coach also had sharp words for Penn State students and fans who reacted violently to Paterno's firing.

"These students the other night, I watched 'em occupy State College, and I thought, ‘They don't understand.' If they stopped and thought about ... how many people were involved and knew this and did nothing, they just haven't lived long enough. And what they've done is try to support somebody the university can't support," he said.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I have a friend who graduated from Penn State more than 25 yrs ago. Each yr she and her husband meet up with old roommates and their husbands and children and go to the Penn State Football game. When Penn State plays here in Il. that group flies to Il and spends the football weekend rah, rah, rahing for their team here.. Its a big deal to them.

The comments made about people living vicariously thru football games isn't that different from our reactions to movies or books. Human Beings seem to have that capacity built in their brains.

Penn State will suffer from these events IMO. I admit to having no repect for the Catholic church since those revelations about how the church hierarchy hid the offences. I don't condemn the whole program at Penn State, but the Football Program and/or other athletic programs just can't hold the same influence over the school as before. I agree with all those who say it can happen again.

I find it just disgusting.

Annette

 

[kenny]

Joe Paterno's True Legacy.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8162972/joe-paterno-true-legacy

 

[Autumnovember]

As someone who has MANY friends who attended Penn State, I don't think it makes it any less desirable for people to apply. Half my graduating class attended the school and I can tell you that the numbers were still similar this past year.

One thing that I'm noticing a lot of the alumni doing, is idolizing Paterno. Enough already...

I've visited a lot of my friends at Penn State over the years and there is still something that really, really bugs me about that school. I can't even tell you exactly what it is but I always had a bad taste when leaving. Maybe because it reminds me of a cult? Maybe its the "I'm better than you" nasty attitude so many Penn Stater's had? I don't know. Could be many things.

 

[iheartscience]

I agree with many of you.
Anyway IMHO there is an evil aspect to competitive sports.
"We are better than you. We will conquer you, and get bragging rights. Rah Rah Rah!"
It's about power and inequality, and strikes me as barbaric.
I just don't get it.

People vary, kenny. You don't get it, but plenty of athletes do. The above statement is pretty ridiculous.

I've played competitive sports my entire life, including on and off as an adult. Although the bragging rights are great, they're not enough to get you to practice every day after school and then to play for your travel team on Saturday and Sunday, too. (Or as an adult, to take the time out of your day to go work out, to get up super early on the weekends to go to games, etc.) I played sports because I loved them, and still do.

I enjoy being physically active and seeing what my body can do. I love gaining strength and increasing my fitness level, and perfecting certain movements. And I love how much better I feel physically and mentally when I take the time to focus on my physical health.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with power and inequality.

 

[soocool]

As someone who has MANY friends who attended Penn State, I don't think it makes it any less desirable for people to apply. Half my graduating class attended the school and I can tell you that the numbers were still similar this past year.

One thing that I'm noticing a lot of the alumni doing, is idolizing Paterno. Enough already...

I've visited a lot of my friends at Penn State over the years and there is still something that really, really bugs me about that school. I can't even tell you exactly what it is but I always had a bad taste when leaving. Maybe because it reminds me of a cult? Maybe its the "I'm better than you" nasty attitude so many Penn Stater's had? I don't know. Could be many things.

My DD has many friends who attend 3 of the 19 Penn State campuses and is the go to school for a great portion of her high school's senior class. They stand behind PSU all the way even in the midst of this scandal. DD never even considered PSU - way too large for her.

As to Paterno, he was self absorbed and interested in his own legacy. He could have retired over 10 years ago and taken Sandusky with him, but he was only interested in being remembered as the only FBS coach to achieve over 400 victories.

 

[coda72]

As a Penn State graduate with 2 degrees from there, it is killing me that my alma mater's reputation is so low. Before anyone jumps down my throat, I feel for those kids who were molested, and I can't understand why Jerry Sandusky wasn't brought down way before now. I don't and didn't place Joe Paterno or the football program on a pedestal, and in fact I sold my student ticket to the football games most of the time. I was not a football fan; I went to Penn State because of the quality of the education I could receive, and it is the state university of Pennsylvania. There are people who are posting things on various websites such as the whole school should be shut down, and other things along those lines. Whatever evils were perpetrated in the name of preserving the football program, the entire school is not about football. It is a good school where you can get a quality education, and it's a shame the whole school is so looked down upon because of what happened.

 

[ksinger]

As a Penn State graduate with 2 degrees from there, it is killing me that my alma mater's reputation is so low. Before anyone jumps down my throat, I feel for those kids who were molested, and I can't understand why Jerry Sandusky wasn't brought down way before now. I don't and didn't place Joe Paterno or the football program on a pedestal, and in fact I sold my student ticket to the football games most of the time. I was not a football fan; I went to Penn State because of the quality of the education I could receive, and it is the state university of Pennsylvania. There are people who are posting things on various websites such as the whole school should be shut down, and other things along those lines. Whatever evils were perpetrated in the name of preserving the football program, the entire school is not about football. It is a good school where you can get a quality education, and it's a shame the whole school is so looked down upon because of what happened.

Oh, any reasonable person is going to understand that "the school" (whatever THAT means) is not to blame for Sandusky doing what he did. The frenzied, ecstatic, overly-emotional sports culture there is not healthy though, and the student riots really did the school's image a big blow too, it wasn't just the admin and its failings. From out here it just looked like a big inability to think straight and control themselves. And yes, I know it was only a small portion of the student population, but it left a really bad taste in the nation's mouth.

In any case, people like you - and me - are outliers. In my 5 year college sojourn I never once attended a football game. Surely you realize from talking to most people who go to a college with a big, socially important football program, that that is NOT the norm? Nor is complete indifference to wins or losses. Heck, I still get ribbed in the office for not even knowing who OU or OSU is playing, or honestly forgetting what sports season it is. I.just.don't.care. But I know many many people who come in Monday in a genuine funk or bad mood because "their team" lost. I'm like, really???

But you see now the problem with personalizing things outside of those things that are...personal. If I get myself into an emotional frenzy over sports wins or school accolades that I didn't earn, then I get to wallow in the collective guilt I didn't earn either. And you're unfortunately going to have to deal with equally irrational responses from people who can't separate the image of the sports program from the education you guys received there. Sad, but that's what we all get when sports is near-religion to so many.

 

[kenny]

Heck, I still get ribbed in the office for not even knowing who OU or OSU is playing, or honestly forgetting what sports season it is. I.just.don't.care. .

There's something I try to do every season when people are talking about the Super Bowl, The Rose Bowl, or the Toilet Bowl or whatever.
If they ask me which team I want to win the XYZ Bowl, I tell them, "I've never been very interested in bowling".
Usually they get the joke (and catch the hint) but occasionally someone will look at me like I'm truly from outer space.

Lots of people expect everyone, especially men to care about football, like you are somehow deficient if you don't.