nowadays, she must buy him an engagement gift?

[Lady_Disdain]

I don't think it is mandatory, but I do think it is a nice gesture, specially in cultures where the fiance has just spent a nice chunk of money for an engagement ring. My own preference would be a similar heirloom object (a nice watch, a high quality whatever that he appreciates and will last a lifetime) and I find odd when more disposable things are given, like electronics with an average life of 5 years. It just seems to be that this should be a gift that will always be remembered and enjoyed.

 

[jewelerman]

its not UN-common in my experience. there have been several of my clients and personal friends over the years who have given watches,rings, gold chains,leather jackets as a engagement gifts after receiving a ring.

 

[mayachel]

Obviously all gift giving is optional. I happen to LOVE giving gifts, especially the thrill of the hunt for finding "the perfect" thing. I was 27yo at the time, and knew we were planning to get engaged. I found some gorgeous silver/gold/faceted garnet (his birth stone) cufflinks to give as his engagement gift. For our wedding he gifted me with a pair of earrings (I actually bought my own bands) and I gave him a nice watch. We are expecting our first child soon, and I'm already hunting down something special to commemorate him becoming a dad/our daughter.

 

[Pandora II]

We did engagement and wedding gifts - not because we felt we had to but because we like buying presents and it seemed like a good excuse!

I gave him the Canon Rebel camera for an engagement gift - he's already upgraded , he gave me my e-ring.

For our wedding, he gave me a bespoke 4ct sphene pendant with matching 2cttw sphene stud earrings.

I gave him a solid gold Victorian watch chain to wear with the gold pocket watch his father gave him for his 21st birthday, a pair of Victorian gold cufflinks and an antique solid silver hip-flask from around 1890. He wore morning dress for our wedding so also wore the cufflinks and the watch and chain - his father was over the moon that he wore the watch so I made 2 people happy!

I don't think there is any compulsion in either engagement or wedding gifts, but it's a nice idea if the couple want to.

the wife or the camera?...

LOL, the camera aka The Mistress. He bought a Canon 5D MkII (which I accidently broke last week - ooops!)

DF, I believe that I am not upgradeable

Lady Disdain, I agree about having something lasting - but he wanted the camera. Hence why he got the other bits and pieces for his wedding gift. I bought them all as great bargains on eBay so it wasn't even that I spent a lot of money - spent a lot of time looking and waiting though!

 

[Jennifer W]

@ Tristan, in the U.S.

I know in my SO's culture they divide the various wedding festivities between the two families, but the groom's family pays a bride-price on top of that.

Under Islamic law, my understanding that the bride's family pays a dowry, but that money is actually the possession of the bride, and she is supposed to be able to access the money or valuables if the husband should pass or if the marriage otherwise dissolves.

I suppose these sorts of expectations are rooted in our cultural histories, and as our culture changes, so do the expectations. As people get married later and marriages become more the union of two earners rather than a provider-male and housemaker-female, it certainly makes sense that engagement presents for men would enter into the equation.

That said, what Americans would like to imagine is a union of equals rarely ends up that way if the couple has children. I think the fiction that women have the freedom to earn as much as men and that parenthood should be an undertaking of two equal co-parents can ultimately be pretty unfair to women. But that's a rant for another thread.

Slightly off topic, but I'm not sure why you think this is a fiction? It's exactly my experience (well, until I gave up my well paid job to go to law school, but being a parent didn't cause that). I don't think it's unfair to me, I rather enjoy our shared responsibilities. Perhaps your experience is very different to mine, though.

DF, to answer the question, I didn't buy J an engagement gift. He is very anti-consumerism and therefore virtually impossible to buy stuff for. I'm not anti-consumerism, so I got a nice diamond ring.

 

[HollyS]

Well, dowrys used to be given in exchange for a woman's hand . . .

But, no, my DH did not get an engagement gift. He certainly didn't expect one. I was the gift.

 

[MissStepcut]

@ Tristan, in the U.S.

I know in my SO's culture they divide the various wedding festivities between the two families, but the groom's family pays a bride-price on top of that.

Under Islamic law, my understanding that the bride's family pays a dowry, but that money is actually the possession of the bride, and she is supposed to be able to access the money or valuables if the husband should pass or if the marriage otherwise dissolves.

I suppose these sorts of expectations are rooted in our cultural histories, and as our culture changes, so do the expectations. As people get married later and marriages become more the union of two earners rather than a provider-male and housemaker-female, it certainly makes sense that engagement presents for men would enter into the equation.

That said, what Americans would like to imagine is a union of equals rarely ends up that way if the couple has children. I think the fiction that women have the freedom to earn as much as men and that parenthood should be an undertaking of two equal co-parents can ultimately be pretty unfair to women. But that's a rant for another thread.

Slightly off topic, but I'm not sure why you think this is a fiction? It's exactly my experience (well, until I gave up my well paid job to go to law school, but being a parent didn't cause that). I don't think it's unfair to me, I rather enjoy our shared responsibilities. Perhaps your experience is very different to mine, though.

DF, to answer the question, I didn't buy J an engagement gift. He is very anti-consumerism and therefore virtually impossible to buy stuff for. I'm not anti-consumerism, so I got a nice diamond ring.

Jennifer, you live in the UK, right?

In the U.S., childless female lawyers far out-earn their mother counterparts. American employers are generally very insensitive to primary caregivers (but possibly moreso in law, that's all I have read the stats on).

 

[Jennifer W]

That's unfortunate. I don't know what the stats are here actually, and it's possible that in the big firms, the highest earners are childless and possibly single people who can put in the crazy hours. Not sure. However, the previous Lord Advocate was a woman with two children, so I'm going to say it isn't so hard to succeed in law here if you have a family. The law job I'll be starting in next year includes a scheme for subsidised child care in the office creche. I guess it is just different here.

 

[MissStepcut]

I know of one firm with on-site child care. They're also one of the most brutal in terms of billables. I'd like to be a mother and a lawyer, but it's hard for me to imagine doing so in private practice, especially since my SO is going into private practice as well.

 

[Jennifer W]

So, the on-site child care is an incentive to be there 24/7?? Like, you don't need to go home, we're looking after your kids...work, already!

Seriously, I can't imagine how hard it must be,but I do I hope you can find a way to balance both parenthood and law, if that's what you decide to do. Maybe you'll be a trail blazer for family rights.

 

[pregcurious]

I got him his own engagment ring, which was a YG claddagh ring he picked out. That was over a decade ago, and I don't think he would pick the same thing now. He stopped wearing it after we got married, but refuses to sell it. My husband is very sentimental.

 

[yssie]

In the U.S., childless female lawyers far out-earn their mother counterparts. American employers are generally very insensitive to primary caregivers (but possibly moreso in law, that's all I have read the stats on).

Continuing OT -

Gotta say, I'm pretty sure my career (consultant in software development) would be strangled within ten minutes of announcing a pregnancy.

Same story without the "consultant" prefix, too... well definitely out in the Bay Area. Perhaps not here in Familyville, Upstate NY.

 

[MissStepcut]

In the U.S., childless female lawyers far out-earn their mother counterparts. American employers are generally very insensitive to primary caregivers (but possibly moreso in law, that's all I have read the stats on).

Continuing OT -

Gotta say, I'm pretty sure my career (consultant in software development) would be strangled within ten minutes of announcing a pregnancy.

Same story without the "consultant" prefix, too... well definitely out in the Bay Area. Perhaps not here in Familyville, Upstate NY.

I started another thread, because I bet we all have quite a bit to say about this.