New Car Options... what to do?

[Erinleigh]

So FI and I are looking to buy a new car, and can get similar deals on either a Ford Focus and a Chevy Cobalt (both sedans). The Focus would come with power everything, heated seats and Sync (the new feature that automatically syncs with your cellphone and the car audio systems becomes the phone- handy for Ontario where cell phones can no longer be used while driving unless hands free) while the Cobalt comes with power everything, and a sunroof.

Which would you pick and why?

 

[princesss]

I''m biased because I have a Focus, but I say get the Focus! I love mine. Great milage, easy to handle, comfortable, and airbags EVERYWHERE (that was a big feature for me - I''ve got airbags you can possibly have airbags!).

Check Consumer Reports and see how they rate against each other, and the total cost of ownership per year (repairs, gas, etc.).

 

[LGK]

My '02 ZX5 Focus like... self destructed at 60K miles last year. I gave it to a friend (free, which is what it was worth at that point), and her mechanic husband has just barely kept it rolling. It has so many fascinating quirks! The tail lights strobe occasionally, the CD player died, the A/C went first followed by the heat. It also has a porta-lake in the passenger side, which makes for a fun mold-garden in the hatch back (we even sprouted some poppy seeds on the floorboards!), which has proved to be The Leak That Will Not Die- no matter what you do, it comes back. Also there's a few nests of baby spiders under the dash, though the winter may have finally killed them.

It's had so many mechanical problems after I gave it to her, it's kind of unreal- part, after part, after fiddly-little-but-crucial part went out. It would have been so incredibly expensive to repair if her husband wasn't awesome at fixing it.

It was cute and fun to drive until it croaked; but I'd totally get ANYTHING else rather than a Ford.

I've been driving the '04 Mazda RX8 ever since, and you could not pry me out of that car for anything else. It has four seats, and is super comfy, but is also incredibly fun to drive, and it was very reasonable slightly used- about the price of a loaded Civic. It handles better than anything in it's class.

 

[vc10um]

I''ve actually owned both the Focus and the Cobalt.

My first car was the first model year of the Focus...and it showed. We had a lot of issues with recalls and stuff, which meant a lot of time at the dealership the first few years we had the car. But I know people who have purchased them in subsequent years and had no such issues. The Focus is still running and now much uncle actually is the one driving it...it was purchased in March of 2000.

I currently drive the first model year of the Cobalt (purchased in May of 2005) and I LOVE MY CAR. I get amazing gas mileage (I''ve topped 40 mpg on long highway trips) and she''s got a lot of zip for a little sedan. The only issue I''ve had is the steering column had to be replaced after about 2.5 years, but that seems to have been some weird fluke and it was still under warranty so there were no problems getting it replaced. I can''t believe she''s going to be 5 soon...and MINE (as I''m almost done paying off the 60 months of car payments! woo hoo!)...ALL MINE!!!

Based on personal experience, I''d say the Cobalt...but I know my experience with the Focus was also slightly tainted...

 

[vc10um]

Date: 11/20/2009 4:30:15 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
My ''02 ZX5 Focus like... self destructed at 60K miles last year. I gave it to a friend (free, which is what it was worth at that point), and her mechanic husband has just barely kept it rolling. It has so many fascinating quirks! The tail lights strobe occasionally, the CD player died, the A/C went first followed by the heat. It also has a porta-lake in the passenger side, which makes for a fun mold-garden in the hatch back (we even sprouted some poppy seeds on the floorboards!), which has proved to be The Leak That Will Not Die- no matter what you do, it comes back. Also there''s a few nests of baby spiders under the dash, though the winter may have finally killed them.

It''s had so many mechanical problems after I gave it to her, it''s kind of unreal- part, after part, after fiddly-little-but-crucial part went out. It would have been so incredibly expensive to repair if her husband wasn''t awesome at fixing it.

It was cute and fun to drive until it croaked; but I''d totally get ANYTHING else rather than a Ford.

Yeah...our Focus had a lot of those problems, too...notably the CD player dying as well as the A/C (the heat still works, though)...guess they hadn''t fixed all that by the third model year...

 

[musincy]

Date: 11/20/2009 4:30:15 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
My '02 ZX5 Focus like... self destructed at 60K miles last year. I gave it to a friend (free, which is what it was worth at that point), and her mechanic husband has just barely kept it rolling. It has so many fascinating quirks! The tail lights strobe occasionally, the CD player died, the A/C went first followed by the heat. It also has a porta-lake in the passenger side, which makes for a fun mold-garden in the hatch back (we even sprouted some poppy seeds on the floorboards!), which has proved to be The Leak That Will Not Die- no matter what you do, it comes back. Also there's a few nests of baby spiders under the dash, though the winter may have finally killed them.

It's had so many mechanical problems after I gave it to her, it's kind of unreal- part, after part, after fiddly-little-but-crucial part went out. It would have been so incredibly expensive to repair if her husband wasn't awesome at fixing it.

It was cute and fun to drive until it croaked; but I'd totally get ANYTHING else rather than a Ford.

I've been driving the '04 Mazda RX8 ever since, and you could not pry me out of that car for anything else. It has four seats, and is super comfy, but is also incredibly fun to drive, and it was very reasonable slightly used- about the price of a loaded Civic. It handles better than anything in it's class.

I haven't posted in a while but I had to come back to respond to this. I have a love-hate relationship with my '03 Focus hatchback. It's a little car that gets really good gas mileage and surprisingly holds a ton of stuff when the back seats are folded down. It's also a fairly comfortable car for a tall person, despite it's small size.

However... I have had almost all of the same issues as LittleGreyKitten. Mine's at 60k right now. In the past year, it has developed the same "Leak That Will Not Die" that LittleGreyKitten referred to, and no mechanic can seem to find a permanent solution. My A/C went out this past summer. I've had the same part replaced twice (I cannot remember what it's called for the life of me right now), and it cost over $1000 each time. One of my automatic windows wouldn't raise. My sunroof got stuck open. It failed an emissions test once because of some electrical problem (the dealership told me there's something that will reset if you haven't driven the car in a while... there's no way that was the problem because I hadn't given my a car a break). I'm so sick of this car...

I wish I could give better reviews. I've owned Fords in the past that have been great, and I would prefer to own an American-made car, but I don't think I'll buy another Ford. This car has cost me too much money, and I'm always worried about a new problem.

Good luck in your search. Have you looked at any Hyundai cars? They're not fancy cars, but everyone I know that owns one has loved them, and they're reasonably priced. My husband has owned two Elantras (the first one was totalled in an accident), and they've both been very reliable and have only needed regular maintenance.

 

[sunnyd]

Ford has really made a comeback recently. While the problems described above are all valid, I''d look for consumer reports of new models.

 

[zoebartlett]

I second Sunny''s suggestion of looking at Consumer reports. I could be wrong, but I''ve always had the impression that Fords handled better and had a better reputation than Chevys. My dad once had a Ford Focus and he liked it. He kept it for a few years before trading it in for something else (a hybrid), but he didn''t have any issues with it.

 

[LGK]

Date: 11/20/2009 4:59:20 PM
Author: musincy

Date: 11/20/2009 4:30:15 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
My ''02 ZX5 Focus like... self destructed at 60K miles last year. I gave it to a friend (free, which is what it was worth at that point), and her mechanic husband has just barely kept it rolling. It has so many fascinating quirks! The tail lights strobe occasionally, the CD player died, the A/C went first followed by the heat. It also has a porta-lake in the passenger side, which makes for a fun mold-garden in the hatch back (we even sprouted some poppy seeds on the floorboards!), which has proved to be The Leak That Will Not Die- no matter what you do, it comes back. Also there''s a few nests of baby spiders under the dash, though the winter may have finally killed them.

It''s had so many mechanical problems after I gave it to her, it''s kind of unreal- part, after part, after fiddly-little-but-crucial part went out. It would have been so incredibly expensive to repair if her husband wasn''t awesome at fixing it.

It was cute and fun to drive until it croaked; but I''d totally get ANYTHING else rather than a Ford.

I''ve been driving the ''04 Mazda RX8 ever since, and you could not pry me out of that car for anything else. It has four seats, and is super comfy, but is also incredibly fun to drive, and it was very reasonable slightly used- about the price of a loaded Civic. It handles better than anything in it''s class.

I haven''t posted in a while but I had to come back to respond to this. I have a love-hate relationship with my ''03 Focus hatchback. It''s a little car that gets really good gas mileage and surprisingly holds a ton of stuff when the back seats are folded down. It''s also a fairly comfortable car for a tall person, despite it''s small size.

However... I have had almost all of the same issues as LittleGreyKitten. Mine''s at 60k right now. In the past year, it has developed the same ''Leak That Will Not Die'' that LittleGreyKitten referred to, and no mechanic can seem to find a permanent solution. My A/C went out this past summer. I''ve had the same part replaced twice (I cannot remember what it''s called for the life of me right now), and it cost over $1000 each time. One of my automatic windows wouldn''t raise. My sunroof got stuck open. It failed an emissions test once because of some electrical problem (the dealership told me there''s something that will reset if you haven''t driven the car in a while... there''s no way that was the problem because I hadn''t given my a car a break). I''m so sick of this car...

I wish I could give better reviews. I''ve owned Fords in the past that have been great, and I would prefer to own an American-made car, but I don''t think I''ll buy another Ford. This car has cost me too much money, and I''m always worried about a new problem.

Good luck in your search. Have you looked at any Hyundai cars? They''re not fancy cars, but everyone I know that owns one has loved them, and they''re reasonably priced. My husband has owned two Elantras (the first one was totalled in an accident), and they''ve both been very reliable and have only needed regular maintenance.

I had an ancient Hyundai- an ''87- and though it was plastic and very, very quirky (ah, the chorus of squeaks it had- quite amazing!) it drove for freaking ever. And the newer Hyundais seem very reliable, my brother in law had their Accent model and, though he''s tough on cars and drove it a LOT, it was extremely reliable.

I''m somewhere between reassured that my Focus wasn''t cursed, and horrified that other people have had very similar issues. It did handle really, really well for it''s class, for sure, and was peppy and fun- but the problems with it were endless. I hope they''re better now, but mine was seemingly great right until it kicked the bucket at the aforementioned 60K; never one problem until then. And yeah, my power windows did the same thing, musincy- randomly they''d just get stuck up or down, but not often enough to trace the problem. Least the sunroof stayed shut! Oh, and the fan for climate-control broke too, long before the A/C & heat died. It also revs weirdly now that my friend owns it- it''ll suddenly start revving high at stoplights, or so low it dies. And the headlights burn out all the time. Leaky cars are seriously the WORST- finding and fixing a leak is apparently iimpossible- I don''t even want to think about the money I spent doing that.

The only car that was close to as much of a buttpain as the Focus was the ''96 Saturn my husband had. You had to kick the tail light every so often to get it to work for a while, then it would go out again. No matter what we had replaced. And it leaked too.

If I were buying a car in the class of Focus/Cobalt, I''d go for a Honda Civic first, and a Hyundai or Mazda second. The ''02 Civic we own is seriously like cast iron- I think my husband has had the oil changed every 30K miles or worse

, and it is now at nearly 150K and has never had any problems- best extra/second car ever. Amazing little car- not as fun to drive as the Focus, but god, I''ll take dry and mold free over fun-cornering any day.

 

[zoebartlett]

Erin (love your name, by the way!), are you only considering those cars? I''d think about looking into Toyotas and Hondas too (the Corolla and the Civic, perhaps). They''re consistently reliable and get good marks. I think they''re among the top sellers for a reason. Just a thought though.

 

[lilyfoot]

Date: 11/20/2009 6:21:36 PM
Author: ZoeBartlett
Erin (love your name, by the way!), are you only considering those cars? I''d think about looking into Toyotas and Hondas too (the Corolla and the Civic, perhaps). They''re consistently reliable and get good marks. I think they''re among the top sellers for a reason. Just a thought though.

Yeah, I''d like to add Nissan to the list. I love my new Sentra, and BF''s Altima. Nissans are right up there with Honda and Toyota for reliability, and longevity.

If you had to (for whatever reason) absolutely pick between the two you mentioned, I''d pick the Cobalt. I don''t think either brand is good, but I''ve heard A LOT of bad stuff about the Focus.

Also, I just had a stereo put into my car that has the hands-free/phone-syncing ability. So that may be something you can look into putting in regardless of which car you get.

 

[radiantquest]

One of the problems with buying a Focus is that they are designed to be fleet cars, as in companies buy them for their employees to drive around. I am not saying that they are making an inferior product with the Focus it is just that it is designed to make Ford money. They will only last a certain amount of time before the company buys more. Get it?

If you want to stick with Ford maybe you could try the fusion. It is a little more money, not much. Ford has a loyal following, but honestly I think it is more for trucks. No one makes a better truck, but I think you may be able to get a car from someone else.

I myself just bought a 2010 Civic. I love it. They say that they last forever.

When I decided to buy a car I looked to see what was on the road the longest. You see so many Hondas on the road. Even models that are over 10 years old are on the road and keeping up with the pack. They arent breaking down. To me that says alot about a car company.

 

[mimzy]

i have an 08 focus (ses) and i love it! i''ve never had a problem with it, i get great gas mileage (average over 36 mpg in summer) and i love the sync, etc. the only way i wouldn''t buy another one was if i upgraded to the fusion. i would definitely check out consumer reports, check out their most current ratings. MSN just had an article reporting on it i think....yep, here you go. although, it doesn''t look like there are individual expert reviews for those two cars.

 

[lulu]

I''m in Michigan. As God is my witness I will never have unheated seats again.

 

[Gypsy]

I just bought a Mazda 3 Grand Touring and am in love-- highly recomend. Drives like a dream, has all kinds of lovely extras (leather, heated seats, Aux port for Ipod, bluetooth-- synche with audio, traction and stability control) for a very reasonable price tage. And Mazda is owned by Ford. I just love and adore my car it makes sitting in traffic tolerable and the open road a joy.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 11/20/2009 6:21:36 PM
Author: ZoeBartlett
Erin (love your name, by the way!), are you only considering those cars? I'd think about looking into Toyotas and Hondas too (the Corolla and the Civic, perhaps). They're consistently reliable and get good marks. I think they're among the top sellers for a reason. Just a thought though.

Ditto this. As much as I would like to support American industry, I would never buy an American car. My family has owned 2 Corollas and 3 Civics (plus an Accord, Rav4, and Celica) and have had zero problems with any of them. My last Corolla and Civic each went to 200k+ miles. The only reason I got rid of them is that PA is very strict about rust and the spots would be expensive to fix. Absolutely no actual problems with the cars other than the inevitable rust. Both of those cars were 12 years old when I sold them and a few years later the Civic is still running for a guy who was able to get the rust fixed by a friend.

I just hear way too many horror stories about Fords and Chevys. In addition, I've driven both the Focus and Cobalt as rental cars (brand new almost no miles) and they in no way compare to my 2001 Civic (120k miles now) as far as handling and pep goes.

 

[pennquaker09]

I think I would have to second the Fusion suggestion. Reviews have pretty much said it''s the best model Ford has and that it''s also better than the Camry and Accord.

 

[Erinleigh]

Thank you all for the input! The reason were just considering those two cars are because were able to get excellent deals (with employee pricing) on them. I had an 03 focus for the last 5-6 years and have liked it alot! I was leaning towards the focus but am a little afraid of all the issues listed above! I''d love to buy something like a Honda civic or VW jetta but unfortunately it''s just not in the cards financially for us right now. I''m not really sure what to do at this point!

 

[HVVS]

How are you getting employee pricing on both Ford and GM? Do you mean supplier discount?

If you have a supplier discount with Ford (X Plan), there should also be some discount, albeit not as substantial, with Mazda. It's been a few years since I had X Plan eligibility, but I was told that a good persistent and insistent customer could get the X Plan price or better without technically being X Plan eligible.

Ford and Chevy still build great vehicles, but small cars are just not something that they had a lot of interest in until very recently when sales of the larger vehicles suddenly dropped off. (Re-read what the analysts said caused GM's probs.) The Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Hyundai, etc. were the ones going after the small car market while the American Big 3 were working on trucks and vans and SUVs. If I were considering a new Ford car, I probably would not buy smaller than a Taurus or whatever its Mercury twin is, if it still has one. I think the G8 and possibly the G6 are the only GM cars that might interest me. I lean toward trucks, performance cars, and large cars nowadays, anyway. I'll trade gas mileage for increased safety and durability, and better build quality. Plus, at the 2-3 year mark, many of those vehicles (used) have depreciated to sell at almost half of original sticker and they still don't have a lot of miles on them and may have some factory warranty or be eligible for factory extended warranty.

For Ford help, there is the Flat Rate Tech site, http://flatratetech.com/community/, which has expanded to be more than just Ford. For Focus, which I've never owned nor paid very much attention to, there are http://www.focusfanatics.com/ and http://www.ford-forums.com/ford-focus/ and probably others. The first Focus set new records for most recalls, iirc. If you're not getting satisfaction, pay those forums or others a visit and look for the latest info and/or cures & redneck fixes for the problems. Fords do go through a 60k - 80k spell when accessories and things like fuel pumps just stop working. It's not so bad on their big well-designed Lincolns, Mercury, and trucks, & somewhat worse on their Taurus/Sable. And it may be really bad on their econo-cars, for all I know. Lots of the stuff people complain about does have solutions, but the key is to narrow it down to the most likely cause / fix, and then get the vehicle to the shop that can fix it fast, cheapest, and get it right on the first try.

 

[HVVS]

Also, Consumer Reports is highly biased in favor of Japanese makes and against the American cars, for many years now. I always look through http://www.ntsb.gov/ for recalls, investigations, consumer gripes, and safety concerns to see if I spot any patterns.

 

[kenny]

Date: 11/22/2009 2:06:54 PM
Author: HVVS
Also, Consumer Reports is highly biased in favor of Japanese makes and against the American cars, for many years now.

Bias is a funny word.

Bias that is the result of data is not bias.
It is knowledge.

I'm not biased in favor of CR.
They gave my car (2010 Honda Insight Hybrid) a terrible review.
I heartily disagree with their review.

But in general, overall, there is very very wide agreement form many sources that Japanese have been making better cars than America's big 3 for about 30 years.

GM and Chrysler have shriveled up while Toyota and Honda have blossomed in the last 30 years.
It is not because anyone is holding a gun to car-buyers' heads.
It is not because Americans hate America.
It is a free market and people recognize value, or lack thereof.

 

[HVVS]

Consumer Reports has been in love w/ the Japanese makes since the ''70s, in spite of corrosion problems, poor safety records, and mechanical problems that the J. cars had back then. Agreed, the Japanese have brought the quality, safety, and reliability of small cars up, and the American car makers have been just not interested in the small car market.

I''m pretty much of the opinion that Consumer Reports often doesn''t know Jack about motor vehicles. The complaints submitted to NTSB and discussed on the various automobile and truck forums are a better real-world indicator of what an owner might expect to see. I bought a 1978 Toyota Corolla in 1980, and it was absolutely the worst and most unreliable vehicle that I have ever owned. Consumer Reports had rated it a best-buy. It was a bad enough experience that I never owned another Toyota after that. I bought a 1982 Mitsubishi 5 speed coupe after I rid myself of the Corolla, and it was ahead of its time and a great running and fast car, but started rusting (in a southern VA climate) so I sold it. I had a used 1982 Ford Escort that nearly surpassed the Toyota Corolla for being a POS but it was bought to use as a beater so I didn''t mind.

After that, I''ve owned a parade of Fords followed by 2 Chevy full size heavy duty trucks. Many of those vehicles were given poor ratings by Consumer Reports, but were fun to drive, were cheap keepers, and very tough and reliable vehicles in real life. If I want to buy a toaster oven, I''ll go read Consumer Reports. Over and out!