My 14 Year Old...

[jordyonbass]

From someone who was once a teen with the same dream and didn't figure out my life until my late twenties - maybe what might be worth doing is trying to convince him why school is useful FOR that dream. He needs good English skills to understand recording contracts so a record company doesn't pull the wool over his eyes, he needs to be able to do maths to do the numbers on his merchandise sales etc etc.

Honestly, I reckon that guitarists creating content on YouTube are probably making a lot more money than guys in bands nowadays. The guys in Slayer only make $100k per year each, yet a guy like Davie504 puts out 100 videos per year and collects several thousand on each video from ad revenue.

 

[House Cat]

Thank you everyone. There’s a lot to digest here. We definitely support his dream. He’s been in guitar lessons for years. He plays all sorts of genres but metal is his passion. We take him to concerts all of the time. He practices daily. We love it.

He genuinely hates school. Not the people but the process. He seems to be one of those people who wants to fast forward to 18 so that he can get on with his life. I’ve offered to homeschool him so that he can move at his own pace but he said he is afraid to turn weird due to lack of socialization.

I’ve explained a lot of what is said here about contracts and having a clear understanding of them, but it doesn’t seem to connect. I don’t know how to get through to him that he needs his studies to achieve his goals. I’m not finding the right words. I think I turn into Charlie brown’s teacher when I start talking about this subject.

He did start having anxiety attacks about a month ago. I put him into therapy again. He seems to be doing better. He has an aggressive teacher for first period. This is how he starts his day. My son usually wilts under the pressure of an aggressive teacher.

This next semester, I’m going to help him to manage his work better, but I am going to keep in mind that he’s young and there is time and maybe college isn’t for everyone. Trade school is ok too.

My oldest son’s dad is a failed musician in this area. His story is a good lesson for my son because the failed musician was lazy, never worked, and expected a record contract to be handed to him due to talent alone.

I think it would be good to find a working musician for him to talk to. He’s met famous people backstage, but I don’t think that really supports the message that he will have to work while playing music. I think I’m going to talk to him about the musicians I knew (back in the day) and how the ones with good jobs could easily afford great equipment and the ones working at the pizza factory played on crap. It’s time to dig in the archives.

I will also contact his neurologist and get him tested for executive function if she sees fit. I feel that something is going on post concussion wise.

 

[rainydaze]

A nephew went through something similar. His passion was a sport and he realized it wasn't go to go where he wanted it to in his junior/senior year in high school. He was already enrolled in online schooling at that time because a few years before (around 14-15) he started getting into trouble. He had a teacher who targeted him and with his background, this brought out rebellion and anger. He spent a weekend with us where DH talked with him and showed him videos of where the road he was headed led to (juvenile detention). I was surprised it took so little but he straightened out after that. Things still weren't going well at school though so his mom let him switch to online schooling. That reinforced his turn for the better with his behavior, however he still needed some direction. To all of our delight, he took it upon himself to find a colleges that didn't require SATs to get in (he either didn't take them or didn't do well) and has made his own way quite successfully following an alternative path (online schooling, college with no SATs). His social life and skills did not suffer by going online.

Have you thought about online schooling? There are usually groups that cater to kids who are homeschooled or schooled online to maintain social connections and skills since that is his concern with these types of schools.

How about charter schools? Are there any near you? There are so many where I am, many that cater to different types of learners and skill sets. A charter that caters to kids interested in music would be awesome. Even if it's a school that offers a different way of learning might be just the thing to keep your son interested. Maybe a school that isn't premised on having students sit and listen all day would spark some motivation, since it sounds like he wants to be engaged and doing.

Exposure to or immersion in the reality of what he sees as his future is often very impactful. Spending a weekend with a struggling musician would probably drive home the reality of the path he wants to take. If it doesn't concern him enough to pad his options, maybe he is one of the rare who is going to make music his success story.

 

[Miss Marple]

I will also contact his neurologist and get him tested for executive function if she sees fit. I feel that something is going on post concussion wise

From what I understand, a neuropsychologist is who you need to assess executive function. Based on our experience, you should be prepared to look far and wide; appointments will be booked months in advance; and they won’t take insurance. Not trying to discourage you—just prepare you.

The problem with even the best public schools is that they very much have a “one size fits all” approach. That said, have you tried working with his school counselor at all? We’ve had good luck with DD’s school counselors. Their time is limited but they have been helpful with suggestions and seem to truly care about the students. Of course, I imagine this is something that varies widely.

 

[jordyonbass]

Oh @House Cat, he sounds exactly like me when I was his age. I have actually done tours in our country with metal bands and it definitely is NOTHING like what people think. It's actually one of the most boring 'jobs' I've ever had, we drove around in a van for weeks to go play a 45 minute set somewhere once a week, maybe twice if we were lucky to double book gigs. Even the headliners that we were touring with were doing it tough at the time as well. Your son has probably heard of them (Parkway Drive) and even those guys aren't living life large being where they are at now. I have better buying and borrowing power to buy a house than those guys do.

I still think YouTube content creation is where the most money can be found for musicians

 

[chroman]

I still think YouTube content creation is where the most money can be found for musicians

Yeah, does he have any interest in the production/engineering side of music? If so, that might be an interesting diving off place, if you want to lean into the music thing.

If there’s interest in live production (like being an FOH engineer), theres probably lots of volunteer opportinities around, and he’ll cross paths with other musicians and see the not-so-sexy side of things (coiling cables for the Nth time..)

If there’s interest in studio/recording side of things... well thats mostly software these days. And that software is all math and code, backed by physics and human perception. So there’s hooks into deeper subjects there. Plus, it makes for better youtube production value.

I’m wondering if there are other aspects of the music side that can make school - or at least independent learning - more relevant. Sitting through classes can be a slog when you don’t see the relevance, I get that.

If math class was less, “solve 45 quadratic equaitons for homework”, and more, “write a similation of a tube amp”, it might be way more interesting.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

He tells me he can hire people for this purpose!

I will suggest business management and see if that appeals to him.

thats not a bad idea
so many young musicians get ripped off something dreadful when they first get discovered

but academia isnt for everyone and their is no shame in that

im not completely sure what a trade school would be in our system but many years ago my other half failed baddly school cert maths at high school
but once he became an apptentice joiner/ carpenter he topped his year in maths because all of a sudden he understood its relevance
i think my dad was the same

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Thank you everyone. There’s a lot to digest here. We definitely support his dream. He’s been in guitar lessons for years. He plays all sorts of genres but metal is his passion. We take him to concerts all of the time. He practices daily. We love it.

He genuinely hates school. Not the people but the process. He seems to be one of those people who wants to fast forward to 18 so that he can get on with his life. I’ve offered to homeschool him so that he can move at his own pace but he said he is afraid to turn weird due to lack of socialization.

I’ve explained a lot of what is said here about contracts and having a clear understanding of them, but it doesn’t seem to connect. I don’t know how to get through to him that he needs his studies to achieve his goals. I’m not finding the right words. I think I turn into Charlie brown’s teacher when I start talking about this subject.

He did start having anxiety attacks about a month ago. I put him into therapy again. He seems to be doing better. He has an aggressive teacher for first period. This is how he starts his day. My son usually wilts under the pressure of an aggressive teacher.

This next semester, I’m going to help him to manage his work better, but I am going to keep in mind that he’s young and there is time and maybe college isn’t for everyone. Trade school is ok too.

My oldest son’s dad is a failed musician in this area. His story is a good lesson for my son because the failed musician was lazy, never worked, and expected a record contract to be handed to him due to talent alone.

I think it would be good to find a working musician for him to talk to. He’s met famous people backstage, but I don’t think that really supports the message that he will have to work while playing music. I think I’m going to talk to him about the musicians I knew (back in the day) and how the ones with good jobs could easily afford great equipment and the ones working at the pizza factory played on crap. It’s time to dig in the archives.

I will also contact his neurologist and get him tested for executive function if she sees fit. I feel that something is going on post concussion wise.

i don't know if this will help but Steve Van Zant understands how important it is to keep kids interested and in school

Rock and Roll Forever Foundation

Rock and Roll: An American Story (RRAS) is the Foundation's national middle and high school curriculum initiative.

www.rockandrollforever.org

 

[AV_]

@House Cat I might relate because I have ended up on a very, very unlikely walk of life; no one could say - 'go for it'. Your son has to have a mentor, or a few; to already be on the outskirts of the rarefied part of the trade that is a trade, as opposed to getting perfunctory pats on the back. On my walk of life, this meant correspondence & conferences. On his, I do not know!

tuppence

 

[KKJohnson]

Find articles that talk about musicians with degrees, because at the end of the day if he isn’t educated then that leaves him vulnerable to others taking advantage

Rock

Learn about the artists, studios, and techniques that built rock and roll. Plus, find news, trivia, and roundups of the best rock albums and tracks.

www.liveabout.com

 

[Dreamer_D]

I wonder if you have ever had a psychoeducational assessment done for your son? This is a very thorough and detailed set of testing done by a Clinical Psychologist. It can help to identify any aspects of cognition and general psychology that can affect schooling, like learning disabilities or attentional or memory issues. I ask bc a lot of the challenges you son is facing and his reactions are incredibly common among people with learning disabilities and/or ADHD. Certainly any of these issues would be aggravated by a concussion. A general physician and even a neurologist (depending on their specialization) may not be skilled to assess and diagnose these issues. It really needs to be a specialist.

I ask because my husband and youngest son both have these neurotypes and I meet a lot of kids like this in my role as a university professor. Unfortunately, many schools and families respond to boys (in particular) who are struggling in school by being very hard on them -- this may be what your aggressive teacher is doing. They seem to think that the threat of punishment or emotional abuse will cause a kid to pull it together and work harder. But alll the negative "consequences" in the world won't actually help a kid who is struggling with their mental health and executive functions (eg., attention). If anything, it makes things worse. It is basically a recipe for disengagement and lifelong struggles with self-worth and feelings of failure. I see this a lot when these kids end up in my classes, and it is heartbreaking. Non-judgemental accommodation and educational scaffolding is what these kids need to get through a school system that is not designed for the way their brains work, along with lots of positive emotional support and positive reinforcement. It ain't easy, and many families need the support of a clinical psychologist to do it. But my husband was treated to the "tough love" approach in school and by family, it has left him with lifelong psychological scars... compared to our son who is having a very different and much more positive experience in school and in life so far.

You know your son best. Maybe none of this is relevant. But your post made my spidey senses tingle, so I thought I would share.

 

[amoline]

My brother is just identical. Unfortunately, I wish we could say he had a madly successful journey, but he's about to graduate (we hope) and his grades were just barely there, and he is now sadly seeing the consequences of his apathy by not being accepted into schools. He sees his girlfriend going on to college and even though he's genuinely very smart, capable, and bright, his grades aren't there, and it makes him feel less worthy. My brother is 18 and has had 4 concussions throughout his school life - they DO impact learning and school, even if it's not obvious.

I am, however, a high school teacher and this is very common. I don't know the magical answer (I don't think there is one), but maybe I can give you some suggestions/help on the school front:

The time to get your son in for neurological evaluation (considering the concussion) is yesterday. Seriously, this is something you must do now. Did he get his concussion at school or a school-related function? If so, the school should be paying for these things.

The school will most likely not want to be involved in instituting any sort of IEP/504 plan for learning accommodations -- they'll get wishy washy, which makes no sense because schools receive funding for IEPs -- but if it help your son with day to day classroom stuff (for example, being able to turn assignments in late for full credit [this was huge for my brother], receiving extensions, teacher notes, etc) you must be insistent that the school provide these things for him. These things can be the grade savers on kids who already have mental struggles. It will let him breathe.

Typically for someone like your son, a psychiatrist/neurologist would be the one to write the academic plan with you, and present it to the school. I say "present" loosely. Mostly, it is the MD politely informing the school what they will be doing, and not asking. I see too many teachers day to day that brush aside accommodations for students. I say it with the full respect and acknowledgment of teacher exhaustion (I live it), but your son is the biggest advocate here, not you. If we get emails from parents that say "My kid has an IEP and should be allowed ____ - why didn't you ___?" the first question administration, teachers, and his Dr. will ask is "Well, did your son go and ask his teacher for..." - This is a very simple process. All your son needs to say is "I have an academic plan that lets me turn in papers late for full credit. Here you go" and hands it to the teacher. Much like telling a police officer that you'd like a lawyer, he needs provide no explanation to any teacher - just that he has a plan in place that lets him do XYZ, and that's it.

Just from what you say, it sounds like your son may get huge benefit from reduced assignment lengths and extended deadlines. Sometimes the problem seems huge, but little things like a math assignment of 10 problems instead of 20 or a 250 word writing assignment instead of a 500 make all the difference. Sometimes the kids like your son see what they perceive to be an impassable pile of work in front of them and just don't have it in them to start.

A huge part of students in classrooms who have had concussions in the past is attention span. It can be very difficult for students who have had them to concentrate or stay focused in class, especially if they weren't particularly motivated to begin with. This is something that having a plan and a physician who can support and advocate it can help with.

A big stigma that surrounds these academic plans, and something I like to remind the kids in my room of, is that they don't have to use them. If a kid with reduced assignment length wants to go ahead and do all the problems anyway, fantastic - that's the goal. But kids feel like it can be the adults around them trying to hamper them, or especially in the case of high school boys, "what, you don't think I'm capable of...??" - It's important to have a reminder that no, nobody finds him incapable, but it's important if he learns and thinks differently, it's OK to have a safety net; in case he has a day where he really does need those accommodations, they are there for him.

If a teacher pitches a fit about anything within such a plan, or refuses to follow it, he or she can find themselves deep in the stuff. If the school, teachers, or admin push back on such a plan, that is when you get cranky about it. The last thing a principal of any school wants is your child's MD knocking on their door because the school isn't following IEP plans.

The reason you need to at least look into doing such a plan now is they can be notoriously difficult to make happen (at least around here) in the middle of things so as your son is in or going into high school where grades are now "mattering" it is imperative for his success and future college if he does wish to go that you have something that concretely supports, beyond people around him. These accommodations can and will also follow into the college world, though they are more murky there. But it is easier if you get them now. Even if your neurologist gave an "all clear," it may mean that his brain is OK, but his concentration, motivation, etc. can certainly still be an issue. I would find an educational psychologist/psychiatrist if you can, and at least approach the topic.

Sorry for the essay. I'm no legal or medical professional, nor am I a parent, but I am an education professional, and please know that your issue and frustrations are extremely common... but not all hope is lost, certainly.

 

[House Cat]

Thank you for your replies. Yes, the neurologist did give him the “all clear” after a year of accommodations. I’m going to bring him back in because after reading this thread, I believe he is still showing signs of post-concussion syndrome. He will need her support. She will also be a good start for further evaluation. He’s had two concussions in his life and both of them have been rather serious. When dealing with the doctors on this matter, after a while, they act as if they have done all that they can do. I’m going to push for more.

I really appreciate the input on this thread because I wouldn’t have considered some of the subject matter on my own. Thanks again.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Yeah, we have never found medical doctors to be very helpful for chronic, longterm brain/psychology stuff. They are more geared to treating acute issues with clear injury or disease. Neuropsychologists and clinical psychologists have been more helpful bc their training picks up where medical doctors’ training sometimes ends.

 

[jaaron]

I'm sorry, I'm rushing right now, but just wanted to reply quickly -

First, I think dreamer_dachsie and Amoline made fantastic points - my ADD radar went off too, and certainly a concussion could exacerbate any underlying issues. Second, could you try taking him for a visit to somewhere like Berklee? I'd be surprised if they don't offer summer courses for kids his age, but even a weekend visit might be worthwhile. It's an amazing place, buzzing with energy and talent, and full of very talented kids with atypical educational backgrounds. I wonder if he might find it inspirational and/or motivating to see a potential path?