My 14 Year Old...

[House Cat]

My 14 year old doesn’t care about school, at all...doesn’t see the point. He’s a talented guitar player and he dreams of being in a successful band one day. Why would he need school? There are many stories out there of famous musicians who are high school drop outs who have made it. He is unmotivated due to these stories. We’ve had many debates about this subject.

I had visions of him going to college. His father is a disabled vet and my son’s college is completely paid for. Trade school is also an option.

It is like pulling teeth to get him to complete assignments. Studying is a joke. He felt micromanaged at the beginning of the year, so I allowed him this one semester to do all of his work himself and he failed math. I haven’t gotten all of his grades yet but i’m Expecting to feel as though this was a very failed experiment.

Here are my issues:
I can micromanage him. Actually, a big part of me feels like I must because he must graduate high school. But there is this nagging voice in my head that says he needs to learn to manage himself. What do i do? How do i get him through high school and still teach him to self start/regulate?

I have told him he needs a back-up plan to being a musician. I also told him he will need a good job while he is trying to make it. What I haven’t said is that he has a very slim chance of making it. I don’t know if that is the right thing to say because I’m his parent and I want to support his dreams. He just seems to be throwing his life away. I don’t know the right thing to say at this point.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

This is so tough, I don't really have any advice but can relate because we have an almost 13 year old son who does not take initiative at all. The beginning of the year I was letting him take the lead and thought he was responsible enough but then found that he was failing math. So now I check his grades every week on his Chromebook (issued by the school, all grades are on PowerSchool) and anything I find that needs to be addressed I make a list and give to him to handle.

His motivation for taking care of the list is I take his IPad away until all the issues are taken care of. Maybe there is some carrot you can dangle that will motivate your son too? It's a fine line because you want them to take more responsibility but they just have no interest and expect to just do the bare minimum to get by, very frustrating!

 

[House Cat]

This is so tough, I don't really have any advice but can relate because we have an almost 13 year old son who does not take initiative at all. The beginning of the year I was letting him take the lead and thought he was responsible enough but then found that he was failing math. So now I check his grades every week on his Chromebook (issued by the school, all grades are on PowerSchool) and anything I find that needs to be addressed I make a list and give to him to handle.

His motivation for taking care of the list is I take his IPad away until all the issues are taken care of. Maybe there is some carrot you can dangle that will motivate your son too? It's a fine line because you want them to take more responsibility but they just have no interest and expect to just do the bare minimum to get by, very frustrating!

I have threatened grounding from phone and x-box and I have tried the reverse...to pay him for good grades. None of it seems to sink in. He seems removed from the whole process of school.

Last year, he got a severe concussion and they basically pulled him from all of his classes for three months. From that point on, he failed all of his classes for the year because he was lost. I thought this year would be a new start but it seems as though the act of failing that one time desensitized him.

Maybe i’m Overthinking this. I have a tendency to do that.

 

[lyra]

I don't know what to suggest. I am super big on trade schools. That's the kind of education that always leads to employment these days. Would you accept a GED from him? An alternative school? Online school?

My daughter had a boyfriend who was and still is a highly talented musician. He just never saw his dreams come true in that regard. He went to college for sound technology and film, and gets work as a sound engineer as a freelancer. He still plays his music at small shows, but that's not what earns him his income.

 

[House Cat]

I don't know what to suggest. I am super big on trade schools. That's the kind of education that always leads to employment these days. Would you accept a GED from him? An alternative school? Online school?

My daughter had a boyfriend who was and still is a highly talented musician. He just never saw his dreams come true in that regard. He went to college for sound technology and film, and gets work as a sound engineer as a freelancer. He still plays his music at small shows, but that's not what earns him his income.

I am going to start suggesting majors such as sound technology and film. He’s been watching his older brother go through college. He’s on his third degree. I think that looks like torture to my 14 year old.

I think trade school is a perfectly fine option too because it’s pretty much guaranteed work.

He keeps asking me about taking the GED. I worry about that option because a lot of employers don’t care for it. I’ve heard people who do the hiring say if you don’t have the motivation to get yourself through high school, how will you have the motivation to work here? I fear there might be a stigma behind it.

 

[marymm]

Remind him that successful musicians are well-served by being able to read and comprehend recording/agent/marketing contracts, and that managing his own money (even if only oversight over paid professionals managing his money) is paramount to living the life he dreams of ... practicing music is key but without any contract savvy he may well lose money and the opportunity to invest in his own success. A lot of musicians have been taken advantage by recording companies and agents because they didn't read (or comprehend) the fine print of certain contract provisions ... let your son know you believe in him and his musical talent but to have a successful long-term career as a musician he would be well-served by having a thorough understanding of accounting, contracts, and marketing. Perhaps he could work towards an A.A. at your community college in business management?

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Do you think he was disengaged before the concussion? I'm wondering if maybe there are some lasting effects if it was severe enough.

 

[House Cat]

Do you think he was disengaged before the concussion? I'm wondering if maybe there are some lasting effects if it was severe enough.

He wasn’t a star student. The concussion made things worse. He’s having concentration issues for sure but the neurologist gave him the “all clear.”

 

[House Cat]

Remind him that successful musicians are well-served by being able to read and comprehend recording/agent/marketing contracts, and that managing his own money (even if only oversight over paid professionals managing his money) is paramount to living the life he dreams of ... practicing music is key but without any contract savvy he may well lose money and the opportunity to invest in his own success. A lot of musicians have been taken advantage by recording companies and agents because they didn't read (or comprehend) the fine print of certain contract provisions ... let your son know you believe in him and his musical talent but to have a successful long-term career as a musician he would be well-served by having a thorough understanding of accounting, contracts, and marketing. Perhaps he could work towards an A.A. at your community college in business management?

He tells me he can hire people for this purpose!

I will suggest business management and see if that appeals to him.

 

[dazzle66]

I hold very polarizing opinions on formal education, so I'll tread lightly here. There's no easy solution, but I think if you tailored the discussion towards his own self-sufficiency, maybe it would help him start making headway towards a path? I don't know your family dynamics, or history with your other kids, but if the goal is to have him out of the house at 18, with some financial help from parents, then he's got to start making choices towards getting a job that will pay his bills.

He doesn't have to finish high school; a GED is perfectly acceptable. He doesn't have to go to college, now or ever. Is there a time limit on the GI bill? A GED, and then taking college core classes at the local community college, before transferring to a university, is a great option for a traditional degree, or there's always the trade school option.

But also, he's 14 years old with a lot of passion and talent for a specific thing. Let him start pursuing that full stop. Pull him out of school, home educate him or just prep him for taking the GED, have him dedicate 20+ hours a week towards music with the goal to transition him towards a part time job in the field, transitioning to a full time job once he's 18. I think you're going to have to make the stakes very real. If he wants to start making different choices, then he has to be willing to pay the consequences. Start letting him feel the heat now, while he's still protected in your home, so he knows what he'll get when he's on his own.

 

[dk168]

I know of someone whose child did not want to further her education after she was 16, and he sent her to work in a chicken factory during a holiday. She changed her mind about further education after a week.

DK

 

[TooPatient]

I know two people who are musicians in bands that perform professionally. Both of them also have day jobs. Both in sales actually! They make enough at work to afford the times the bands aren't working and also to pay for equipment, recording, travel for performances, etc.

Neither of them (or the several others I know who used to perform in bands) are able to make a living despite being very good.

 

[VRBeauty]

I recently lost a 20-year old nephew to suicide. Well, to depression, but...

He had been very open with his parents about his depression. One of his concerns was that the only viable/acceptable path he saw for his future was one that included college, yet he couldn't envision himself being successful in college because of his mental challenges. ( His parents had been very protective of him and did not discuss the extent of his illness with him. Which is unfortunate, because I recall having the very same arguments with myself during one or two severe depressive episodes while I was in college. I was able to make it through them with medical help.)

Setting up a 4-year degree as a necessary precursor to a happy and prosperous adulthood is somewhat misguided IMHO. I know people who live what look like very interesting and fulfilling lives without a 4-year degree; some are also successful financially.

Also, I think some kids just take longer to find the path that motivates them to work hard and succeed. And that at some point, kids need to be allowed to fail, and to learn from those failures.

BTW, helicopter parenting was very much a part of my nephew's life. Not that it caused or contributed to his depression - but ultimately, it didn't ensure success in school, either.

 

[Matata]

I have told him he needs a back-up plan to being a musician.

If you don't know someone who is a working musician and/or someone who is a talent agent, try to do some networking and have someone in the business talk to your son about the realities of that kind of life. It wouldn't hurt to have his talent assessed by someone who will give him an honest opinion and advice on what he'll have to do to be successful in the business.

We did the above with my stepson who thought he was the next greatest of all time. He attended Berklee College of Music and got a job in New York as a promoter of up and coming musicians. He writes music and performs but isn't good enough to make it big and his day job supports his avocation.

 

[Karl_K]

Ask around and find someone in the business to talk to him.
Even someone in a local band.

A casual acquaintance has played in jam sessions with world famous bands and their members individually and held his own but has never been able to break in to a full time job in the industry. So he plays local gigs with a local band for little money while holding down a full time job.
There are a lot of people who are awesome, some who are better than many "name people" who never make any money at it.

 

[Snowdrop13]

I feel for you, I have two teen boys (15 and 17) and their attitude to school, homework and studying is very different from the way I was at their age. My younger one particularly doesn’t see the point and doesn’t seem keen to try. My approach has just been to keep at him- maintaining a routine, plenty of food and sleep and home tutors for some of his subjects so that at least he’s doing something academic (this latter has been quite good, at least one of the tutors is a young man so a bit more relatable than some of the teachers at school). I don’t know if it will work but he knows I just want him to get some exams so at least he will have choices available to him. Good luck!

 

[lambskin]

Is there a music teacher at school he can talk with?

 

[Karl_K]

Is there a music teacher at school he can talk with?

Teacher is "the system"

 

[Elizabeth35]

Dealing with teenage logic is pretty frustrating, right?!?!? Sometimes come up with some fairly ludicrous arguments to get out of doing what they don't want to do.

I may be the anomaly, but I would tell him (kindly) the odds of making it big as a band musician are very slim. That is not bursting his dream, that is being realistic. Then discuss other ways he could earn money with music--side gigs, wedding band, music teacher, etc. Discuss realistic pay expectations and education/training required for his options. Have some non-college options for him.

Obviously rule out depression or any other issues, but it would not be out of line to limit screen time, take phone away, remove Xbox until homework is done or grades are improved. Those are privileges and not rights for a 14 YO---it's okay if he has to do his job (school) to get privileges because, honestly, that's just how life works. Even in the music industry.
Maybe you and your DH could go talk to someone about this family issue? Or try family counseling with your son? They may be able to provide you tools for helping your son.

It's really important that he develop life skills such as discipline, self-motivation, hard work, time management no matter if he becomes a FT musician or not.

Good luck!

 

[Tartansparkles]

I have a 13 year old daughter and can relate to your frustration. Our most recent approach is to have neutral/honest discussions with the kids about how much things cost (mortgage, food car etc) to try and get them to start thinking about what their own lives might look like based on the choices they make. Most of all we just try and be consistent and hope that the values we live rub off on the kids. My daughter can be challenging but every now and then I hear a smidgen of my advice echoed in her own words so there is hope!

 

[OboeGal]

I empathize with what you're dealing with here. I have a nephew who is behaving similarly in college; he's in his fifth year now, has changed majors all over the place, does not apply himself at all, etc. It's incredibly frustrating to watch a young person you love squandering life and opportunities so, as if they believe that things will be handed to them the rest of their lives. I don't have the experience to really offer anything useful on the parenting side of this, but......

I can speak to the music side. I have been a professional performing musician for 40 years. I have a bachelor's in music performance, as well as some graduate work, although I didn't finish the masters. I have played in every genre of music except country and bluegrass. Symphony orchestras, wind symphonies, opera and ballet orchestras, chamber music of various stripes, musical theatre pit orchestras, jazz and swing groups both large and small, folk/celtic music, Americana, and yes, I've put in my time in rock/alternative bands as well, including touring and recording. Yes, he needs a day job. Almost no one makes even a meager living solely performing music. Those who "make it" represent an unbelievably tiny percentage for whom all the stars aligned just right: enough talent, enough hard work, enough discipline, enough reliability, knowing enough of the right people, being good at networking and marketing themselves, and the financial resources, whether earned themselves or payed for by someone else, to not only pay the bills and keep themselves healthy, but to have reliable transportation, to buy adequate quality musical equipment, to maintain that equipment, to pay for instruction from the right people (which is not just about what one learns, but about making those connections for gigs), and paying for either studio time or adequate equipment for recording on their own. Not to mention having to be physically attractive (which granted, isn't quite as important for males.) And the most vital part of "making it": simply being the guy or gal at the right place at the right time. Pure luck.

99% of professional musicians are cobbling together a meager living with performing, teaching privately and/or in school systems or universities, selling music arrangements, composing, working in music merchandising selling equipment, learning to do sound design on the side, and various day jobs and side hustles unrelated to music. And then there's the whole rapidly changing landscape of how music is experienced by audiences: less and less is paid for live (and most who go to live shows expect not just music, but to be entertained by an over-the-top visual spectacle as well); most is obtained through streaming, which means that a whole lot more bands and individuals have the opportunity to put things out there and potentially be heard without having to appeal to a record label, BUT that means that there is so much material to be sifted through that any individual or group is at risk of being utterly lost in the shuffle. Several groups have gotten attention that has spread through word of mouth and social media after someone comes across them, which is great, but the money they make for that from streaming is utterly paltry. So, although many, many more have the chance to be heard than back in the days that record labels controlled the industry, only the extreme few that still get deals with those labels are making livable money. As technology continues to change how we live, the music industry will continue to rapidly evolve in ways that, frankly, I don't even begin to know how to predict.

So, yes.......he needs some education, he needs to prove that he can work hard and be responsible and reliable as well as play his instrument to play professionally, or else he and/or his band will not get hired back, and he's going to need to financially support not only his life but his musical endeavors, as they will take at least as much money as they make. His "dropping out of school and making it with a band" is, in this day and age, a fantasy, I'm afraid.

 

[OboeGal]

I guess what I was trying to say in a way-too-long post is, in a nutshell, that our society is moving to one in which the arts can only be pursued, at any level, as a passion and a calling, in whatever ways an individual can manage to fit them in to their life, but NOT as a way to survive financially. Not for anyone. It's an incredibly unfortunate reality, but reality nonetheless.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Every case is different, but it might be worthwhile to really engage in his interest to try to get some credit to give advice. What kind of music does he play? Is he willing to share it with you guys? Can you go to concerts and things together? Does he have ideas on next steps he wants to take to succeed and can you find him mentors?

It might seem counter intuitive, but genuinely leaning into his ambitions might help him understand that you do in fact love that he has a passion and you absolutely would want him to be successful at it. And might give your pragmatic advice about trade school more "credit" since he won't see it as just you trying to talk him out of pursuing music or not believing that he can do it. Teenagers often get frustrated that adults and parents expect them to follow advice from them "just cause they're older and think they know" without evidence that the adult is making efforts to understand why and how they love the things they love. They see it as the age-related version of "mansplaining".

It might also be that having a bad year has caused anxiety related to school work that looks like apathy. It doesn't feel good to be bad at things and he may be resistant to trying because "what's the point". Can you work with the school to get him some wins so he can build up momentum and confidence again? Can you reward his effort rather than the result? That way even if his grades continue to be a struggle, at least he might make progress at the work ethic part?

Let's be honest, being a successful musician isn't just talent. It's also discipline of working and doing things when you dont want to.

Also if you do make it big, do you know anything about contract law? Protecting your intellectual property? How to manage your money or hire a manager? Sure you can hire people, but if you don't know anything about this stuff, you're just asking to get taken advantage of.

Or maybe do votech for electrical work? A lot of musicians are knowledgeable at fixing and maintaining their own sound set ups because when you start out you're too broke to hire people for that lol

 

[Elizabeth35]

Tartansparkles--
"Our most recent approach is to have neutral/honest discussions with the kids about how much things cost (mortgage, food car etc) to try and get them to start thinking about what their own lives might look like based on the choices they make."

Excellent point. My parents spent time explaining how much apartments cost, taxes, utilities, car insurance, etc.. I think I was high school age.There were discussions about why they chose to not have fancy cars because they chose to spend money on travel and retirement savings. It was extremely impactful. We discussed the lifestyle I aspired to and my parents patiently explained what type of income I would need to have that lifestyle.
I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for parents to impart basic financial skills in their kids. And part of that is understanding wages related to their education and skills, as well as disciplined spending and saving.

 

[redwood66]

I feel for you @House Cat but he is still young at 14 and doesn't need all the answers now. In fact he'll change his mind plenty before 18. Lots of good advice here. I will add that the music biz where you are is very difficult. My BIL has a rockabilly/country band and can only enjoy the gigs if he keeps his day job. Keep your chin up.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Have you checked into a charter school? We did home school for one of my kids who had ADD, and for my youngest for his senior year. For kids who are disliking school or there are other reasons-like getting behind after an injury, it can be a wonderful solution.
It takes all the stress out of school. It also takes way less time. We would go to the office to turn in assignments and for occasional teaching sessions but it is so much easier. You don't have to deal with other students. When you essentially do all the work yourself, you spend less than half the time doing schoolwork. There is no bullying or competing or feeling like you are not keeping up with classmates. Your work is all your own, so also no group projects. It might even make him like learning again. I can't say enough positive about it. Maybe some positive would be good for him.

 

[Bron357]

It’s a tough one. Support his musical dreams but explain the need for formal schooling this way.
when he is successful he will be offered contracts and work agreements. He needs to have good enough English skills to understand what they say so he doesn’t get exploited.
ditto the financial aspect of his career. He will have to manage his money. He needs maths for that, he needs an understanding of economics. Otherwise he might be conned like Michael Hutchinson of INXS was, his money manager literally stole all his money. It happens a lot. That’s why good musicians have to also be good smart business people. it’s not great to earn money and have other people con you out of it. The really successful musicians have a solid college education behind them, not just so they have a fall back position but so they can outsmart the sleazy types who want to take advantage of people of them. so they can make sound financial decisions to increase their fortune.

 

[luv2sparkle]

For us, it was a free public charter school. It was a combination of students who came for many different reasons. There were a couple girls who were pregnant and other kids who got in trouble and a few others who had a hard time fitting in. There were so many reasons the kids were there. But my son didn't spend time with these kids, he just saw them at the office. They had a lot of specialty programs for the kids if you wanted to get involved, and they had a really nice graduation ceremony. My son was the top student grade-wise so he gave a speech at graduation. He spoke about how he struggled at the very intense private school he was going to and how much going to the charter school changed his life.
It took him a long time to want to go to college but he is about to graduate in a few months.

 

[secretagentlaura]

Is it possible to have your son evaluated for executive function? Especially with his recent brain injury, it sounds like he might benefit from strengthening his skills in that area. It's not uncommon for people to give the appearance of not caring about types of activities that they perceive they struggle with more than their peers do. This is a work in progress with my own middle schooler.

 

[sunseeker101]

Hi HC. I'm not parent to a teenager yet (gods help me), so this is based on having a younger brother who sounds quite a bit like your boy.

At 14, the brain is awash with new emotions relating to identity and place in the world (and about ten years away from full frontal-lobe development), and there's many slips between the cup and the lip guaranteed before any kind of maturity seeps in. I see Laura above has addressed the executive function idea, and it might be a good one, considering the behaviors you've seen since the concussion episode.

Outside of that, I'd like to add that your attentiveness and concern really comes through, and a rock-solid devotion in this way will be the biggest help to your boy.

Do you think he feels hopeless when he compares himself to his brother, and who could blame him? Maybe some therapy to unwrap his feelings about being in the 'shadow' and feeling stymied and slightly out-of-sync after the concussion?

Just a few ideas and the best of luck!