LTC vs. CCRC and navigating the maze

[missy]

Boring topic but thought I'd broach it here and see if any PSers had anything they could share about their experiences researching and going through this (either with an aging parent or for themselves and their partner).

My head is spinning with all the options and with all the potential problems.

First one (and main issue IMO) being there is no guarantee by the time we might need to use this it will still be viable. That is will the company (or the backup company) still be in business and willing to honor the original terms.

For those of you who don't know (and that probably means you are too young so wouldn't really read this thread anyway but just fyi) LTC is long term care insurance and CCRC is continued care retirement communities. In some cases you can use your LTC policy to help purchase your CCRC but that varies.

Some background for those interested.

How Continuing Care Retirement Communities Work

The big draw of CCRCs is their tiered approach to aging in place. You start out in independent living, later can move to assisted living, and finally into a nursing home — all on the same campus. Most CCRCs offer condominium-style amenities (think fitness centers and maintenance-free living), plus features that support an independent, active lifestyle like dining options, shared interest groups, cultural outings and travel opportunities.



To join, would-be CCRC residents:

Pay a one-time entrance fee.
Must pass a health check.
Have to show qualifying assets.


CCRCs are one of the priciest retirement living options out there. Entrance fees can range anywhere from $100K to $1 million, according to AARP.

Then there is a newer option but not sure if it is around still called CCRCs without walls.

http://www.iadvanceseniorcare.com/article/building-ccrc-without-walls

http://seniorhousingnews.com/2016/06/02/3-keys-successful-ccrc-without-walls-program/


Lastly a bit of info regarding LTC insurance.

https://www.newretirement.com/retirement/is-long-term-care-insurance-worth-it-explore-the-pros-and-cons/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

http://www.forbes.com/sites/wadepfau/2016/01/26/coverage-options-for-long-term-care-insurance-policies-pt-1/print/

https://blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor/2016/09/19/the-pros-and-cons-of-long-term-care-insurance/


Sorry for all the links and if you got this far I appreciate you taking the time.
I am interested if anyone has gone through this for themselves or a family member and what thoughts you might have if you don't mind sharing. Thanks!

 

[MollyMalone]

Hi, missy

I have very recent experience with this because of discussions-research with my dad, who died several months ago; he was a trusts & estate planning lawyer who had long term care insurance and coincidentally moved into Friendship Village of Dublin (Ohio), a continuing care community which is mentioned in one of the articles you linked. I was thinking about doing a post on this topic, so was delighted to see this already here. Don't have time right now to pull it together, but promise I will post back before the weekend is over.

 

[Calliecake]

Welcome back Molly!!! I'm happy to see you back here but so sorry to hear about your dad. I hope you and your family are doing as well as can be expected. Losing a parent is so hard.

 

[azstonie]

A true CCRC (Continuing Care Retirement Community) offers independent living, assisted living all levels, physical therapy/rehab, skilled nursing, and memory care. You pay a fee on entering that corresponds to your current health status. If you wait too long to go into a CCRC---are already ill---you are either rejected OR you pay a high rate. This is why you want to go in when you are still healthy (fees based on lowest rate possible). A true CCRC *is* long term care insurance. My parents had long term care insurance beginning in their 50s. They are now 86-1/2. When they went into their CCRC, their long term care insurance became 'moot' because what they bought from the CCRC *is* long term care. I specifically asked the CCRC representative about long term care insurance versus CCRC and she said having both is a duplication. I read the contracts, to my read she was correct. One caveat:

If you are NOT going into a CCRC that has all the levels of care (which technically would not be a CCRC then), you most likely should keep your LTC insurance because if you got very ill or injured, you would be transferred to a facility that is your care level and your LTC insurance kicks in.

The issue with both LTC insurance and CCRCs is financial viability/reliance. If you go into a CCRC who then folds or closes for some reason, you're screwed. Same with LTC insurance --- if they company you've spent decades paying into has any changes at all, like going bankrupt or being sold, etc., you're similarly screwed. Its hard to get the truth on the financial stability of either companies because its all too easy for companies to lie about this. We don't have a government in place who prosecutes for this kind of fraud. You're on your own.

I had LTC insurance starting when I was 45 because if I had a catastrophic illness or accident I didn't want my DH taking care of me in our home. I don't want his life to consist of changing my diapers, etc., and frankly he's not a good caregiver so I would rather have professionals attending to me. I let my LTC insurance lapse at 55 because we plan to go into a CCRC at the appropriate level of health status and age. I would rather gamble on the CCRC than an insurance company's willingness to pay claims and pay them promptly. LTC insurance eventually will cap out, too.

So I'm 58, DH is 53. By them time we are getting close to CCRC time (btw 75 and 80, health status additional factor) there will be a track record to go on in choosing one. My parents went with Sagewood in Phoenix, owned by Westminster LLC. They had less to go on then we will have. With the Boomers retiring, CCRCs and assisted living facilities are exploding and will continue to do so.

Last thing: Sagewood is owned by a for-profit company. My godmother and her DH went into a CCRC in Los Gatos, CA, which is non-profit run by a board of the residents. Its my opinion that the nonprofit, resident-board-run is better.

 

[missy]

Hi, missy

I have very recent experience with this because of discussions-research with my dad, who died several months ago; he was a trusts & estate planning lawyer who had long term care insurance and coincidentally moved into Friendship Village of Dublin (Ohio), a continuing care community which is mentioned in one of the articles you linked. I was thinking about doing a post on this topic, so was delighted to see this already here. Don't have time right now to pull it together, but promise I will post back before the weekend is over.

Molly! I am so sorry about your dad. My heartfelt condolences to you and your family.

I am so glad you are back and I hope you hang around despite the craziness that has taken over the forum.
Looking forward to your post on this issue.
Big (((hugs))).

 

[missy]

MollyMalone, just checking in with you. Hope you are doing well. We decided on a long term health care policy and applied last week so just waiting to hear back if we are accepted. Lol years ago that wouldn't have been even a question but things are different now and there are health issues that might prevent us from being accepted or cause our premiums to be too expensive so we shall see.

I'm still interested in hearing others experiences with this if you are willing to share. Thanks.