Learned experience - kids, birthdays, and pets.

[MichelleCarmen]

Sorry, I deleted because I'm being self-pittying and all that. . .don't want to come across as whinny.

 

[Steel]

Nothing wrong with self-pity. My ear is here if you still want to have a teeny vent about som''it....

 

[CJ2008]

Too bad - would have loved to hear your insights on these topics - curious how they all tie in.

As far as the self-pity - that just makes the REST of us who self-pity sometimes say "whew - glad I''m not the only one!" haha

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Okay, I'm feeling a bit better now. . .My thought basically is it's a huge mistake purchasing/giving pets to your child for a birthday gift. What if that pet gets sick? What if it dies? What if YOU (personally as opposed to a vet) have to euthanize it? How will a child cope with that?

Normally, we get family pets. Neither of my kids have had a pet which is exclusively his, so it's been a family situation vs. what it is now, where I'm feeling the tremendous burden of caring for my son's fish (who are sick) and having ABSOLUTELY no idea what my son is thinking at this point. He's 7. How will this effect him as he grows older? Will this be a memory that will tramautize him? (at least he isn't sucking his thumb again!)

When we buried his first fish (that I did have to euthanize

- never thought I would have to do that!), I took a sharpy pen and wrote the fish's name on a rock and buried the fish. Later that (or the next) day, I went outside and my kids had taken red and black sharpy pens and written various names on about 10-20 rocks (not sure how many - I turned them all over to the blank sides) and grouped them together as a cemetary!

Yes, I'm an overly sensitive person. After we brought home the first fish, I immediately decided I would never be able to eat fish again.

Now, my sons are asking for gerbils. No ******* way.

 

[Steel]

I agree entirely with your view of a 'family pet' but perhaps with a different logic. I don't feel that pets are gifts, meaning presents. So I would not gift a pet to anybody.

I believe that pets become part of the family and belong to that family but only in the meaning of association to a family unit. I suppose I feel that if that pet is gifted to a husband or son or daughter (etc) then is that a form of slavery? I am taking this thought for a very long walk to get slavery, I know. I mean that we care for our pets but they own themselves so cannot be gifted to anybody.

So I would not gift any pet to a child.

But as far as the death of a pet goes. I feel it is important for children to experience a 'safe' loss such as the death of a pet. Which exposes them to the concept and reality of death in a manner which while upsetting the child, does not alter their environment in the way that the death of a parent or his/her class mate at school would impact the child.

So my point is that pets are valuable members of the family and the care, love and mourning they require teaches children very valuable life lessons. At 7 I doubt your son is harbouring trauma following the death of his fish it seems to me he didn't even 'get' the idea of the memorial stone. Keep adopting pets - perhaps even that gerbil?

ETA: as far as putting an end to a suffering animal yourself (as opposed to the vet) we do what we can to prevent the suffering of another (or we should IMHO) so if your family pet needs ugrent assistance and that assistance requires you to end their suffering then you do it. And you explain to your child what happened in an age appropriate manner. Yet again it is a learning experience. I have had to snap the neck of many a poor little birdie and rabbit and hope that if I were an animal in imeasurable suffering that somebody would do the same for me.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 8/30/2009 3:40:14 PM
Author: Steel
I agree entirely with your view of a ''family pet'' but perhaps with a different logic. I don''t feel that pets are gifts, meaning presents. So I would not gift a pet to anybody.

I believe that pets become part of the family and belong to that family but only in the meaning of association to a family unit. I suppose I feel that if that pet is gifted to a husband or son or daughter (etc) then is that a form of slavery? I am taking this thought for a very long walk to get slavery, I know. I mean that we care for our pets but they own themselves so cannot be gifted to anybody.

So I would not gift any pet to a child.

But as far as the death of a pet goes. I feel it is important for children to experience a ''safe'' loss such as the death of a pet. Which exposes them to the concept and reality of death in a manner which while upsetting the child, does not alter their environment in the way that the death of a parent or his/her class mate at school would impact the child.

So my point is that pets are valuable members of the family and the care, love and mourning they require teaches children very valuable life lessons. At 7 I doubt your son is harbouring trauma following the death of his fish it seems to me he didn''t even ''get'' the idea of the memorial stone. Keep adopting pets - perhaps even that gerbil?

Ugh, not the gerbil. What will my cats think? Mmmm. . .lunch?

I''m not sure I quite agree with your associate between giving a pet as a gift and slavery! (I''m not sure if I want to discuss that further as it could take a nasty route.)

That aside, maybe it is good for my son to see the cycle of life. In his and two other classrooms (plus probably more), last year, there were pets and almost all of them died. One class had butterflies. . .another fish. So, well, the kids did see death first hand and the teachers and school district saw this as acceptable. It didn''t bother me seeing that one butterfly had been accidently crushed by a piece of fruit. . .but then again, I wasn''t feeling emotions toward them.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 8/30/2009 3:40:14 PM
Author: Steel
ETA: as far as putting an end to a suffering animal yourself (as opposed to the vet) we do what we can to prevent the suffering of another (or we should IMHO) so if your family pet needs ugrent assistance and that assistance requires you to end their suffering then you do it. And you explain to your child what happened in an age appropriate manner. Yet again it is a learning experience. I have had to snap the neck of many a poor little birdie and rabbit and hope that if I were an animal in imeasurable suffering that somebody would do the same for me.

Yes, agreed. I'd never want to see an animal suffer. I had wanted to euthanize the fish the night before, but my husband was convinced the fish would recover. The next day was clearly the end.

I'll always remember when my mom snapped the neck of one of my gerbils after it had developed a brain tumor. It was a strange moment in time because we had a family member who was suffering from an incurable form of cancer and in a lot of pain.

 

[Steel]

Date: 8/30/2009 3:52:45 PM
Author: MC

Date: 8/30/2009 3:40:14 PM
Author: Steel
I agree entirely with your view of a ''family pet'' but perhaps with a different logic. I don''t feel that pets are gifts, meaning presents. So I would not gift a pet to anybody.

I believe that pets become part of the family and belong to that family but only in the meaning of association to a family unit. I suppose I feel that if that pet is gifted to a husband or son or daughter (etc) then is that a form of slavery? I am taking this thought for a very long walk to get slavery, I know. I mean that we care for our pets but they own themselves so cannot be gifted to anybody.

So I would not gift any pet to a child.

But as far as the death of a pet goes. I feel it is important for children to experience a ''safe'' loss such as the death of a pet. Which exposes them to the concept and reality of death in a manner which while upsetting the child, does not alter their environment in the way that the death of a parent or his/her class mate at school would impact the child.

So my point is that pets are valuable members of the family and the care, love and mourning they require teaches children very valuable life lessons. At 7 I doubt your son is harbouring trauma following the death of his fish it seems to me he didn''t even ''get'' the idea of the memorial stone. Keep adopting pets - perhaps even that gerbil?

Ugh, not the gerbil. What will my cats think? Mmmm. . .lunch?

I''m not sure I quite agree with your associate between giving a pet as a gift and slavery! (I''m not sure if I want to discuss that further as it could take a nasty route.)

That aside, maybe it is good for my son to see the cycle of life. In his and two other classrooms (plus probably more), last year, there were pets and almost all of them died. One class had butterflies. . .another fish. So, well, the kids did see death first hand and the teachers and school district saw this as acceptable. It didn''t bother me seeing that one butterfly had been accidently crushed by a piece of fruit. . .but then again, I wasn''t feeling emotions toward them.

I happily withdraw the comment. It was a stretch even for me - but I know where I was going with the thought. Obviously you would have to be in my head to understand

.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 8/30/2009 3:56:24 PM
Author: MC

Date: 8/30/2009 3:40:14 PM
Author: Steel
ETA: as far as putting an end to a suffering animal yourself (as opposed to the vet) we do what we can to prevent the suffering of another (or we should IMHO) so if your family pet needs ugrent assistance and that assistance requires you to end their suffering then you do it. And you explain to your child what happened in an age appropriate manner. Yet again it is a learning experience. I have had to snap the neck of many a poor little birdie and rabbit and hope that if I were an animal in imeasurable suffering that somebody would do the same for me.

Yes, agreed. I''d never want to see an animal suffer. I had wanted to euthanize the fish the night before, but my husband was convinced the fish would recover. The next day was clearly the end.

I''ll always remember when my mom snapped the neck of one of my gerbils after it had developed a brain tumor. It was a strange moment in time because we had a family member who was suffering from an incurable form of cancer and in a lot of pain.

Oh. My. Lord. Honestly, I cannot even imagine. I can''t imagine DOING that. I can''t imagine being a child OBSERVING that.

I am speechless, actually.

Growing up, our children always had pets -- all kinds of pets. That was important to us. Yes, it''s awful when they get sick and die... but it is the sad reality of life. Our daughter had a pet mouse named Zero that got very ill and the vet couldn''t save him. He was suffering so we had him euthanized. I believe that even the smallest, humblest of animals deserves to live and die with love and dignity.

Eventually losing any animal you love is sadly inevitable... but the lesson we always tried to teach our children was that loving them and sharing our lives with them was our pleasure, and so *worth it*.

 

[justginger]

You''re right - it is a difficult situation to handle, as a parent (or any other member of the family, really).

When I was young, one of our fish died and I, naturally, got very upset about it. Dad decided to nip that in the bud and after that, whenever any of the fish started looking wonky, he would flush them pre-emptively down the toilet. He told me that they would "go to the lagoon and get better." When I was old enough to figure out what was really going on, I wasn''t the least bit upset with him about lying. By that point I realized he had saved me from a lot of little girl heartache. Not everyone agrees with parental dishonesty, but that was one white lie I appreciated in retrospect. I think I finally figured it out when I was about 9. I''d had other pets pass on by that point and I suppose Dad realized, that in comparison to a dog or cat, I wouldn''t be so very upset about a fish''s death so he didn''t feel like he had to back up the lie when I questioned "the lagoon" story (as I refer to it).

I had gerbils when I got a bit older (certainly not 7 - think I was about 13), and when they died, it was thankfully of old age. When the end came for each of them, individually, I sat up all night, holding them on my stomach and waiting for them to pass. The thought of them dying in a corner of a cage was too much for me to handle. I don''t think it would be easy for a 7 year old to deal with, but then again, kids are pretty resilient!

 

[LilyKat]

I don''t have kids, but I do remember what it was like to be a kid and have my pets die. We had tropical fish from when I was about 4 and I remember the first one (my favourite) dying when I was 5 - I came back from school and my mom told me it had died. I remember crying and feeling sad, but then we buried it and I got over it. No big deal. Lots more died over the years, and rest assured it didn''t traumatise me permanently in any way. If anything, the sadness and dealing with it was a great "trial run" for future human bereavements - and therefore a valuable learning experience.

Don''t stress about the impact on your son. As long as you deal with the situation and him sensitively, he''ll be just fine.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 8/31/2009 7:15:51 AM
Author: justginger
You''re right - it is a difficult situation to handle, as a parent (or any other member of the family, really).

When I was young, one of our fish died and I, naturally, got very upset about it. Dad decided to nip that in the bud and after that, whenever any of the fish started looking wonky, he would flush them pre-emptively down the toilet. He told me that they would ''go to the lagoon and get better.'' When I was old enough to figure out what was really going on, I wasn''t the least bit upset with him about lying. By that point I realized he had saved me from a lot of little girl heartache. Not everyone agrees with parental dishonesty, but that was one white lie I appreciated in retrospect. I think I finally figured it out when I was about 9. I''d had other pets pass on by that point and I suppose Dad realized, that in comparison to a dog or cat, I wouldn''t be so very upset about a fish''s death so he didn''t feel like he had to back up the lie when I questioned ''the lagoon'' story (as I refer to it).

I had gerbils when I got a bit older (certainly not 7 - think I was about 13), and when they died, it was thankfully of old age. When the end came for each of them, individually, I sat up all night, holding them on my stomach and waiting for them to pass. The thought of them dying in a corner of a cage was too much for me to handle. I don''t think it would be easy for a 7 year old to deal with, but then again, kids are pretty resilient!

Times have changed. It''s now considered "animal cruelty" to flush dying fish down the toilet. People say it''s inhumane! (PETA even went so far as to attack the Pike Place Market here in Seattle for their "fish throwing," saying it''s disrepectful to the dead fish). . .Anyhow, I''m treating my fish with medication (they don''t seem to like the food so who knows if that''ll be successful). I''m now thinking when I restock the tank, I''ll pick out easy to replace fish. One of the guppies has a unique tail with a lepard print and it''ll be impossible to find a replacement. Other shades seem a dime-a-dozen. I could switch out a fish while my son is at school. Yep, parental dishonesty.

I had my gerbils in high school. . .took care of them myself. Like you, aside from the tumor one, the others died of old age. They were so adorable.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 8/30/2009 9:59:52 PM
Author: Lynn B

Oh. My. Lord. Honestly, I cannot even imagine. I can't imagine DOING that. I can't imagine being a child OBSERVING that.

I am speechless, actually.

Growing up, our children always had pets -- all kinds of pets. That was important to us. Yes, it's awful when they get sick and die... but it is the sad reality of life. Our daughter had a pet mouse named Zero that got very ill and the vet couldn't save him. He was suffering so we had him euthanized. I believe that even the smallest, humblest of animals deserves to live and die with love and dignity.

Yes, I do agree that even the smallest deserve to die with dignity. That is why I googled fish euthanazia before taking action.

My mom was an odd one. She did break the gerbil's neck in front of me. . .probably why I still remember that to this day. That took place when I was 15. A bit older than my sons, but never-the-less still very sensitive to what she did.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 8/31/2009 7:25:54 AM
Author: LilyKat
I don''t have kids, but I do remember what it was like to be a kid and have my pets die. We had tropical fish from when I was about 4 and I remember the first one (my favourite) dying when I was 5 - I came back from school and my mom told me it had died. I remember crying and feeling sad, but then we buried it and I got over it. No big deal. Lots more died over the years, and rest assured it didn''t traumatise me permanently in any way. If anything, the sadness and dealing with it was a great ''trial run'' for future human bereavements - and therefore a valuable learning experience.

Don''t stress about the impact on your son. As long as you deal with the situation and him sensitively, he''ll be just fine.

Thanks for your reassurance. Having tropical fish seems like will result in much more death than will occur with other family pets. The more I read, the more it seems like fish always come down with one illness or another. Gotta think it''s simple unnatural to keep fish in small little tanks. They''re so vunerable.

 

[zipzapgirl]

We had all kinds of pets growing up and I think it''s an important set of lessons for kids to learn:

That we have to care for animals, and letting them learn what a dog, cat, gerbil, fish, plant, etc. needs to be healthy.

That we love these little critters and that they share affection with us.

That even though we care our best for them, animals will eventually die. The best we can do is give them a nice life while they are with us.

That death hurts, but we are richer for having had these animals in our lives.

It might seem good to shelter our kids from painful experiences in having an animal die, but I think it''s better to teach them these valuable lessons and teach them how to deal with it, but remembering the good times.