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Lead poisoning - advice?

Circe

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
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8,087
I've been absent from the boards recently - it turns out my house is basically made of lead, and I could use some advice. Medical, legal, or just plain practical.

When I was 8 months pregnant last fall, I found a nice apartment in an old building: moved in, gave birth, raised my baby. In spring a pipe burst and required some renovation, but I thought, hey, old building, it happens. When the kiddo was 9 months old, his pediatrician ran a routine blood test, and the results came back at 9. According to the scale, under 5 is safe; under ten a cause for concern; 15 or more and they call in the Department of Health; and as you go higher up the scale you get more and more concerned until at 30-45 you have to perform somewhat dangerous chelation therapy, and around 70 it's life-threatening.

Anyway. A 9. My doctor thought it was an anomaly, but definitely something to keep an eye on, and told me to come back in a month to retest. And I watched him like a hawk for that month. I mean, I do generally, but I mean now all of his non-soft toys got taken away, stuff with zippers, the works.

One month later, his blood tested at a 17, and we contacted the Department of Health. They sent an inspector the next day, he spent a good long while asking about my hobbies and whether anybody in the family shot guns or went fly-fishing or painted or otherwise came into contact with lead. And then he tested the apartment, and it was off-the-charts high for lead paint. He actually apologized for having spent so much time quizzing me about all that - said he never would have expected to see readings like those in a good building in a nice part of town.

From what I gathered when the pipe burst, the people who lived in the apartment before us where there for a long time, and it sounds like somebody screwed up and didn't renovate it like they should when it came up empty - though that's just something a handyman said, I don't know it for a fact. I do know they raised a hell of a lot of dust when the pipe burst, and never even did a swab, which is required in NY: makes me think they're not just occasionally lackadaisical, but actually consistently negligent. And this is a building FULL of kids.

We moved into a hotel immediately, and we've been going back-and-forth with the landlord ever since. First he said he had an empty apartment we could use while he renovated ours, then he had it tested and even though it had been completely remodeled recently, it ALSO tested high for lead - not as extensively as ours, though, so they're renovating it first so we can move our stuff into it while they redo the entirety of our place. And then when they're done there (they think it'll be by Thanksgiving) we have to move all our stuff back (after it is retested by the Dept. of Health, of course).

Guys, I am at my wit's end. I'm worried about my baby. I'm worried about the out-of-pocket expenses we're incurring - spending 18 days in a hotel isn't cheap, and neither are moving expenses, and while the landlord is paying, he's also whining about how this is costing him "a fortune," and I can tell it's going to be like pulling teeth. I'm working, and trying to coordinate all of this while getting the stuff I need to get done is an exercise in sleep deprivation. And, oh, did I mention this weekend is my 5 year anniversary? Going to spend it trying to cram 1300 square feet worth of stuff in 760 square feet of space, IF the place is ready by the weekend - otherwise we get to move to another hotel and then reorganize the situation with the movers, since the hotel we're in now doesn't have vacancies after the 28th.

GOOD TIMES.

Anyway. It is good to vent, but if any of y'all have been through anything like this, I would really appreciate some advice. Or just plain old PS dust. So long as it is unleaded.
 
So, I'm guessing that you really like the apartment (aside from the paint of course) and that is why you're not looking for something elsewhere? This is certainly grounds to break your lease if you wanted, and you could move into a new apartment right away instead of this waiting and moving game.
 
That's part of it - I spent a long time searching without finding better, and the checks I've done on real estate sites these last weeks haven't shown anything better, or even anything okay. But it's also the fear that wherever we move could be dangerous TOO. At least this way once all the hassle is over, we know it's safe.
 
no experience with this Circe but i do suffer from chemical allergies so i can relate somewhat.
i am so sorry you are going through this.
but you are doing the right thing.
and through all this you've kept your sense of humor!
i had to chuckle at the "unleaded" reference at the end!
 
Sorry this is happening! What a nightmare... Sending you lots of positive dust!

On a side note, I wouldn't move back into that building. I would be way too paranoid and constantly concerned that the renovators missed a spot. Is there an alternative to moving back there? ETA - I see you posted you've looked around...I'd keep looking, just in case something comes up. Bring a lead testing kit with you. I think that Home Depot or similar carry those.
 
MC|1351005922|3290759 said:
Sorry this is happening! What a nightmare... Sending you lots of positive dust!

On a side note, I wouldn't move back into that building. I would be way too paranoid and constantly concerned that the renovators missed a spot. Is there an alternative to moving back there? ETA - I see you posted you've looked around...I'd keep looking, just in case something comes up. Bring a lead testing kit with you. I think that Home Depot or similar carry those.

This is kind of where I am too, Circe. If you find other places, you can test for lead before moving in, but I have a feeling that this "older building" of yours probably has several other problems. Sounds like they are just slapping bandages on the situations as they arise, so who knows what else is lurking behind the walls, beneath the floor boards, above the ceilings, etc.

Is he going to reimburse you for the hotel expenses?
 
That sounds like a complete nightmare. I'm sorry that you're going through this.
 
Circe,
I often read this in the newspapers but to know a PSer is actually living through this is devastativing. I'm so sorry you are going through so much. As parents, we all try to keep our children as safe as possible and you should not blame yourself for anything. It was out of your control. If I'm in your shoes, I'll look elsewhere for a home (and have it tested beforehand too). Based on what I've read in the papers, the lead fallout covers a good spread of area so if your apartment is affected, you can bet your neighbourhood is as well. You are likely to have to look for a new place at least a few miles away.
 
Hi,

Very Scary indeed. Perhaps this is the time to buy your own home with through inspections, of course. You will have a good inspection after the renovation, yes?

I'm sure the landlord is upset as well,
but he should be required to bring the building up to code anyway.

Hang-in there and check your renters policy for relief from the hotel fees, or your landlords policy may cover the hotel. You certainly shouldn't be responsible for them.

Big Worry.

Sorry,
Annette
 
Oh gosh Circe, I'm so sorry. How scary. What year was the apartment built do you know?
 
I'm sorry - and very glad that you and your doctor were diligent in testing your son's blood lead levels so this situation was exposed. The thought that he was exposed to as much as he was is scary - the knowledge that he could have been exposed for much longer than he was is far more frightening.

There is no way I would move back into that building or any building owned or managed by your landlord. He has proven himself to be untrustworthy and willing to cut corners even if they endanger his tenants. Not trustworthy, to me, means living with the nagging concern about when the next shoe will fall... worrying about what else is lurking. I don't know what sacrifices moving at this point would mean for you, but... I'd consider them to be worthwhile for the peace of mind. I know, easy for me to say... but that's what it looks like to me, from a distance.
 
I would not go back. There may be lead problems in other building areas (staircases, hallways, attics, garden, etc). The landlord cut corners - sorry, no one just "forgets" this kind of thing. Even if the previous family had been there for a long time, he should have tested the apartment at some point. It was also conveniently forgotten during the pipe incident. Has he mentioned testing any of the other apartments and common areas? Because of this attitude, I would also consider getting a lawyer involved.

Is there any chance your things could have been contaminated? I don't know much about lead poisoning.
 
Gosh, I'd be extremely paranoid about cross-contamination in the drinking water as well.

Circe, I'd definitely DEFINITELY move elsewhere.
 
Oh wow, how scary-I'm so sorry. And the inconvenience is a nightmare too I'm sure. I have no words of wisdom but I hope the situation is resolved ASAP. And I will make sure the next place I move is tested for lead.

Is the baby okay? Is there treatment for high levels of lead? And have you and your husband been tested?
 
oh gosh I am so so sorry; our friends had a baby in a house with lead paint and they had to move out too. I have no advice; thinking of you guys.
 
OMG! How horrible!! Thank goodness for that blood test! Does your landlord have to notify all tenants about the high level of lead found in two of the units? Chances are, there are high levels in most, if not all of them.

I would not move back into that building. I know you said that you did look around and this was the best one...at least before all of this came to light. I think that at this point, "best" should be one that is healthy and in liveable condition, which this building clearly is not.

Has your LO's blood been tested since you've moved out to see if the blood levels are decreasing?

I don't know anything about lead, but can it permeate fabrics such as toys, linens, furniture?

I hope things settle for you guys soon!
 
That's a good point about the water supply being contaminated. That's why I ask what year the building was built...the older it is the more likely it is to have lead pipes and a whole other host of other problems like asbestos too.

So sorry, what a nightmare.
 
Circe,

I'm so sorry to hear this! Unleaded dust to you!

First, don't panic. The body is very resilient, and his level wasn't in the danger zone. Breathe, and relax.

Second, I think it's time to find another apartment. Bring those little lead test swabs with you, link to the swabs; http://www.homedepot.com/buy/leadcheck-instant-lead-testing-kit-202387.html

I think a new apartment is in order, because I suspect your landlord may be using cheap painting contractors. In your city (at least I think I know your city, I dunno for sure), all contractors are required by law to be certified for lead, so whoever did the reno after the pipe burst apparently wasn't. I've also heard some bad contractors can get great paint deals in Chinatown, and we all know about China and lead, right? Even if he does fix it correctly, I'm not sure you're going to feel 100% safe there.

The housing stock changes constantly up there, and the streeteasy website is very complete for everything that's available. Also, this is the site many agents use; http://public.olr.com/default.aspx

To get anything free of lead or asbestos, you'd have to find something built post-1979 (I'm not sure people understand that it's not just "old" buildings, that's why I bolded it). Or at least someone that doesn't "fix" stuff using lead paint. :rolleyes:

Unleaded dust and good luck to you, Circe! :wavey:
 
If you have any energy left to do it, I would call the City's Building Department. If you decide to go that route, you may have more leverage and assistance if you know what is legal and what is not. I'm fairly certain that your landlord has significant code violations going on (and knows it). This is a Health and Safety issue and the law is pretty clear on issues for the safety of multifamily housing, aka rental apartments.

I'm so sorry that this happened - and what an awful way to find out :(sad :nono:
 
iLander|1351013115|3290840 said:
To get anything free of lead or asbestos, you'd have to find something built post-1979 (I'm not sure people understand that it's not just "old" buildings, that's why I bolded it). Or at least someone that doesn't "fix" stuff using lead paint. :rolleyes:

Yes, this is very true, but the odds of having lead/asbestos in your home probably decrease depending on how close it was built to 1978. They started phasing out the use of that stuff earlier than 1978, even though it wasn't officially banned yet.
 
How awful Circe! I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. Sending truckloads of dust that you find a great place to live (lead free) and that you are compensated for all of your stress and time. Hugs to you and try to have a Happy Anniversary!
 
Ugh, Circe, I'm sorry you're dealing with this. A friend of mine went through something similar and it was a headache. They had to move out temporarily as well. I don't have any advice for you, but I'm crossing my fingers that all ends up okay once they work on your apartment. I remember when you found it, and I know how much you love it.
 
Circe, I'm sorry you're going through this. My suggestion is to find another apartment. If you continue to live in the current apartment, you're increasing your baby's risk for developmental issues. There's a lot of old and new buildings laden with lead paint but the paint is typically maintained by putting some sort of a coating where it prevents it from chipping/flaking. The greatest danger is when the paint begins to flake and it's airborne or your baby accidentally puts it in his/her mouth. My guess is that during the pipe burst is when your baby had the greatest exposure. Did you get yourself tested too? I suggested to do it as well. Once exposure is ceased, the lead may still be in the body (it takes a while for the body to get rid of it) but the concentration in the blood should decrease.

You should be getting reimbursed from your landlord's insurance for the hotel and I agree with a previous poster who mentioned that this is a good reason to break the lease. Also, I find that the landlord's concern that "it's costing him a fortune" unbelievable when you have a baby that's been exposed to lead. Obviously the landlord doesn't really care for your or your baby's health. Good luck!
 
Honey this is, to me, a landlord tenant issue.

If that apartment doesn't meet health codes (and it doesn't!), he might be liable for all sorts of things. And all those other kids!!! Oh my!

I'd get on the horn with a lawyer ASAP. And, this is gonna sound bad, but if you tell the lawyer the rest of the building has the same issues and there are kids there too, you will probably get a VERY INTERESTED lawyer (multiple lawsuits) to help you.

Also, you can call your local 'expose' radio station and say you are having this problem (babies at risk in a good neighborhood makes for good story) they can probably help/refer you to people who can help you out.

I'm sorry you are going through this!
 
Circe

I hope the advice that has been posted above is helpful. I know nothing about this type of situation but I didn't want to read and not post.

I wanted to send you and your DH and DS lots of love and PS magic dust. I really hope that this situation is resolved, to your satisfaction, ASAP.

We are here for you anytime.
 
Corralling a baby in a hotel room is a party and a half, so I'm lax in replying - the only time available is when he naps.

So! First and foremost, THANK YOU, all of you, for your sympathy and good advice. I am enormously tempted to just break the lease and put this behind me: the thing is, it would be basically impossible to find another place this size, as close to good schools, and as within our budget as this one is. And that's what the brokers I've been talking to are saying - it's not just my opinion.

At this point, I DO think the place will be safe post renovation, if only because while the current situation has the potential for litigation, if the landlord were to mess up again it would be a lawsuit of gargantuan proportions. And he knows it, too - it's why he had the short term place checked out and is having it remodeled before we move there. And both it and our actual apartment are going to be checked by the Dept. of Health again before we set foot anywhere in them.

I'm racing the clock to get everything typed up before the kiddo wakes, so I'm going to respond to what I remember from a quick read-through and thank you guys en masse (hopefully next week I will have time to come back in more depth). The building is pre-war, and the pipes were the first thing I thought of ... but I had my blood tested to rule them out, and I, a) drink a lot more water than he does, and, b) came back normal. We did have him retested, and the levels looks like they're starting to subside, which makes me feel better about testing early and often and yanking him out of the place as soon as we found out.

I am going to consult with a lawyer, just to see if there's anything else I should be doing (and to find out if I am within my rights if I go around sidling up to the other parents in the building, asking if they've ever thought about testing - I don't want a slander suit, but I also am not okay with the possibility of this happening to other kids ... the guy from the DoH said they'd notify, but I'm a believer in redundancy and personal responsibility). In a nutshell, now I just have to wait and see what apartments I can find, what the results of the retest will be, what the lawyers will say, etc., etc.

In other news, I think I might be developing an ulcer.

P.S. - Did I say thank you? Because, seriously, I really appreciate you guys giving me your advice and your good wishes. So: THANK YOU.
 
I do know they raised a hell of a lot of dust when the pipe burst, and never even did a swab, which is required in NY: makes me think they're not just occasionally lackadaisical, but actually consistently negligent.

^ I think that's your problem. HEPA filtration is required. There should have been NO dust, and landlord and crew knew that. Can it be cleaned up? Yes. probably. Any carpets or upholstered furniture probably can't be decontaminated, though. http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/lead/lead03-a04.pdf

I've never heard of such negligence. I've not worked in lead or asbestos abatement, but I worked years in the chemical industry and received broad-based safety training. Usually, lead and asbestos exposure are only occupational hazards for workers, and not much of a thread to anyone else. Once you encapsulate it, and it can't dust off, there's no real hazard unless you chew on the paint or something.
 
Circe, I am so sorry that you are going through this! My heart and prayers go out to your little one that he pulls through all of this ok with no lasting issues... As far as the apartment goes, I would definitely be speaking to a lawyer asap! It sounds strange. At the very least, every other unit needs to be tested to protect other children.
 
Circe,

((big hugs))

I can imagine all of this seems so overwhelming, on top of having a little one to care for...just take it one day at a time, one "task" at a time. And keep on keepin' on. You are doing the right things.

I really like Gypsy's advice. Your ears should be deaf to any whining or sympathy ploys from the Landlord...this is on him, his doing, his responsibility, period. Be strong.
 
What a nightmare! All I have to offer is hugs and unleaded dust.
 
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