Law school + med school = ???

[ravengirl]

Hi girls! I''ve been lurking here every day for a couple years. I love keeping up with all your discussions! I posted a couples times back in...2007, I think, but then went back into lurkdom.

I have noticed lately that a lot of you went to law school, so I thought I''d see if this was a situation any of you faced.

I will be starting law school this fall. My BF is finishing up his first year of medical school. This means that we will graduate the same year. Now...how can we try to make sure/increase our odds of ending up in the same city after graduation?

It''s my understanding that medical students don''t have a lot of control over where they''ll get placed for residency. It''s also my understanding that I will probably have to accept a job offer before my BF will even know where he''s going. I guess my question is--how do people do this? I can''t imagine how we''ll plan this all out...

Thanks for your time! You''re such a great group of women that I figured "What the heck, I''ll post this question." As good a time as any to come back from lurking.

 

[icekid]

Having been through the wonderful match process, I can say- good luck

I am lucky that my husband is not in medicine and is pretty portable. Even still, starting this summer he is going to have an hour plus commute to work

I have quite a few couple friends who are both in medicine who live far apart, even though they are married. One particular pair has one located in California and one in Texas. ouch, right? They don''t see each other often and it is HARD.

If your boyfriend goes into a field that is very competitive, he may not have much control over where he matches (unless he is a superstar). If he chooses something less competitive, it is generally much easier to be in a certain city. And he would know by mid-March about where he will match, so that will give you a little bit of time to find a job nearby? You''ll make it work, even if it means having to be apart for the short-term. It is just a part of life for medicine, unfortunately.

 

[ravengirl]

Thanks for the response. Hm...married and still living in separate cities?? Eek. I wouldn''t like that!

Unfortunately, my BF wants to go into surgery--so I''m sure that will be very competitive. He''s thinking orthopedics.

 

[lucyandroger]

SO and I are both lawyers. A friend of ours is married to a MD. He of course had to chose a city before she did. So he picked the city where they were both going to school. He''s been working at his firm for a little over 6 months and now they are both picking up and moving to a new city where she was accepted. That certainly isn''t the ideal situation but I''m not sure how else you could make it work.

 

[icekid]

Date: 5/7/2009 3:11:37 PM
Author: ravengirl
Thanks for the response. Hm...married and still living in separate cities?? Eek. I wouldn''t like that!


Unfortunately, my BF wants to go into surgery--so I''m sure that will be very competitive. He''s thinking orthopedics.

Ortho is definitely on the competitive side! The surgical subspecialties are all pretty competitive as a rule, while general surgery really is not at the moment.

 

[ravengirl]

Date: 5/7/2009 3:19:08 PM
Author: lucyandroger
SO and I are both lawyers. A friend of ours is married to a MD. He of course had to chose a city before she did. So he picked the city where they were both going to school. He''s been working at his firm for a little over 6 months and now they are both picking up and moving to a new city where she was accepted. That certainly isn''t the ideal situation but I''m not sure how else you could make it work.

Yeah, I figured that was how it would work if we had started school the same year. But since I''m starting a year later (but law school is a year shorter), graduating the same year actually seems like it will complicate matters. (I''m not sure that made sense, lol)

But, it helps to hear that other people make due with what happens. Of course, I knew this to be the case, but it still helps to hear it. Thanks!

 

[ravengirl]

Date: 5/7/2009 3:23:06 PM
Author: icekid

Date: 5/7/2009 3:11:37 PM

Author: ravengirl

Thanks for the response. Hm...married and still living in separate cities?? Eek. I wouldn''t like that!



Unfortunately, my BF wants to go into surgery--so I''m sure that will be very competitive. He''s thinking orthopedics.

Ortho is definitely on the competitive side! The surgical subspecialties are all pretty competitive as a rule, while general surgery really is not at the moment.

Ugh, I know! He could change his mind though. He''s only an M1 right now.

 

[ravengirl]

Although, I didn''t know that general surgery isn''t as competitive. That''s interesting.

 

[Octavia]

Ravengirl, while you might know in advance where you''ll be after graduation, the way things are going right now, you might not. A lot depends on what kind of law school you''re going to -- if you''re at a top school that''s still placing a lot of people in big firms, then you have a better chance of knowing. However, if you are one of the MANY law students who doesn''t get a job at a large (or even mid-sized) firm, you may not know until much later in your third year. I know a bunch of 3Ls who are graduating without jobs because either they had an offer but it got rescinded, or they haven''t found a job yet. In three years, it''s hopeful that the market will be better, but I think the way a lot of firms go about hiring associates is going to change. How, I don''t exactly know. If you want to clerk after graduation, you''ll definitely need to decide that earlier, but I wouldn''t stress too much about the job thing right now because you have no idea how things are going to be in three years. But, at least in most states, you don''t have to register for the July bar exam until the spring, so he should know where he''ll be before you have to decide where to register.

 

[ravengirl]

Date: 5/7/2009 4:02:21 PM
Author: Octavia
Ravengirl, while you might know in advance where you''ll be after graduation, the way things are going right now, you might not. A lot depends on what kind of law school you''re going to -- if you''re at a top school that''s still placing a lot of people in big firms, then you have a better chance of knowing. However, if you are one of the MANY law students who doesn''t get a job at a large (or even mid-sized) firm, you may not know until much later in your third year. I know a bunch of 3Ls who are graduating without jobs because either they had an offer but it got rescinded, or they haven''t found a job yet. In three years, it''s hopeful that the market will be better, but I think the way a lot of firms go about hiring associates is going to change. How, I don''t exactly know. If you want to clerk after graduation, you''ll definitely need to decide that earlier, but I wouldn''t stress too much about the job thing right now because you have no idea how things are going to be in three years. But, at least in most states, you don''t have to register for the July bar exam until the spring, so he should know where he''ll be before you have to decide where to register.

Octavia, thanks for your post! I am going to a top law school...so I''m worried about the pressure of on-campus interviews, offers being extended early, employment rate of 99% at graduation, etc. I''d imagine it would be hard to just sit and wait for my boyfriend to get placed in a residency while all my classmates are accepting job offers.

That''s good to know about the bar exam registration though!

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 5/7/2009 4:10:47 PM
Author: ravengirl

Date: 5/7/2009 4:02:21 PM
Author: Octavia
Ravengirl, while you might know in advance where you'll be after graduation, the way things are going right now, you might not. A lot depends on what kind of law school you're going to -- if you're at a top school that's still placing a lot of people in big firms, then you have a better chance of knowing. However, if you are one of the MANY law students who doesn't get a job at a large (or even mid-sized) firm, you may not know until much later in your third year. I know a bunch of 3Ls who are graduating without jobs because either they had an offer but it got rescinded, or they haven't found a job yet. In three years, it's hopeful that the market will be better, but I think the way a lot of firms go about hiring associates is going to change. How, I don't exactly know. If you want to clerk after graduation, you'll definitely need to decide that earlier, but I wouldn't stress too much about the job thing right now because you have no idea how things are going to be in three years. But, at least in most states, you don't have to register for the July bar exam until the spring, so he should know where he'll be before you have to decide where to register.

Octavia, thanks for your post! I am going to a top law school...so I'm worried about the pressure of on-campus interviews, offers being extended early, employment rate of 99% at graduation, etc. I'd imagine it would be hard to just sit and wait for my boyfriend to get placed in a residency while all my classmates are accepting job offers.

That's good to know about the bar exam registration though!

I just had a thought. Since you're from a top school, you'll have the opportunity to pick from lots of the huge firms. I would pay attention to where the firms you're looking at have offices. It's usually easier to transfer offices in the same firm than to go out looking for a completely new firm (especially after only a couple months of practice). That's definitely something to ask about when you're narrowing down your choices (after you get the offers of course

). The real problem in my friend's case is that his firm doesn't have an office in the city where his wife is doing her residency.

ETA - Of course this only makes sense if you have SOME idea of where your SO will end up...or at least a few places to chose from.

 

[megumic]

I don''t have advice on how to sort out where you''ll end up in a few years, except that everything does and will work out. (I totally believe in fate and karma!) But I wanted to say CONGRATS on getting into law school - such a huge feat in itself.

And GOOD LUCK with 1L year. I''ve got two exams left of my 1L year next week - all I can say is it''s an amazing experience, a wonderfully frustrating but rewarding challenge and don''t be too hard on yourself!

Also, being at a top school makes you more flexible in terms of job search. Many law schools cater locally, but if you''re top 20, you''ll have a pretty portable degree if you do well.

Good luck!

 

[ravengirl]

I just had a thought. Since you''re from a top school, you''ll have the opportunity to pick from lots of the huge firms. I would pay attention to where the firms you''re looking at have offices. It''s usually easier to transfer offices in the same firm than to go out looking for a completely new firm (especially after only a couple months of practice). That''s definitely something to ask about when you''re narrowing down your choices (after you get the offers of course

). The real problem in my friend''s case is that his firm doesn''t have an office in the city where his wife is doing her residency.


ETA - Of course this only makes sense if you have SOME idea of where your SO will end up...or at least a few places to chose from.

Ooooo, that''s a good idea...

 

[cara]

Well, this is going to be a hard one. I think its good that you are thinking and strategizing now.

I know less about the law school process, but aren't the firms you do your summer internships with very important, as they usually offer you a job if you do well? If so, you may want to start researching what cities you and your BF would be jointly interested in. If you are interning in NYC and he matches to Iowa, that could be a problem.

Also, on the surgery front, you can have some estimate of how competitive your BF will be as a candidate by looking as his test-taking ability, how his grades or test scores compare to his classmates, how well students from his school are prepared and how well they typically are able to place, and how competitive his desired program is. If your BF got awesome MCAT scores with minimal studying, he is likely to be able to score well on Step 1 especially if he invests in some painful studying. If he studied his butt off for good (but not rock star) MCAT scores, then he is likely not going to get a rock star Step 1 score even if he studies his butt off again. Not that all is lost if he has merely good Step 1 scores or anything, but if you can estimate if he will be a top, average, or stretch candidate for his desired programs, this will help you realize how flexible he will need to be on location. And of course you two have years to figure this out, but he will also need to decide how flexible he will be on program - if he wants ortho or bust, or if he wants to restrict himself geographically and is willing to take general surgery if he doesn't match into an ortho program, etc.

For example, my husband just listed residency programs in my area (I was in grad school far away when he was matching) and he would have been happy at two of them. He also listed lesser programs that wouldn't really have allowed him to do research or stay on the right career path for what he wanted to do, because at that point we were desperate to be in the same place. He was also trying for only a medium difficult specialty. Now, he got lucky and got into one of the better programs, but it might have been a mistake to list the lesser programs cause I don't think that he would have been happy there. But likewise we would not have been good with another 3 years long distance so I'm glad that it didn't come to pass.

In contrast, he had three friends all trying to get into plastic surgery. Two of them were stronger candidates, with better scores, better interview feedback, and they listed pretty much the vast majority of the 31 plastic surgery programs in the country on their match list. They could have been sent anywhere, they wanted plastics. They both matched, not to their first choices, but to reasonable options less than half way down their lists. The third person was the weakest candidate of the three but also the pickiest. He listed less than half the programs in the country and DID NOT MATCH. (See allycat's saga for a stressful version of this.) But like ally he scrambled into a great program for him. However, all three of these people ended up having to have a lot of geographic flexibility to match into their desired, difficult to get into surgical specialty. It could be really hard to coordinate that with getting a law job unless you are willing to postpone your serious job hunting until after he matches. Which, depending on your specialty and where you end up, could put you at a career disadvantage.

I actually know a couple with an ortho doc and a lawyer, but their education timing doesn't quite line up with yours. Lawyer husband got his first law job out of school in the city where his wife was finishing med school. Then she matched to an ortho program far away, and he then found a job in that city and they moved. She was a strong candidate, and they definitely chose to rank highly ortho programs in cities suitable for her husband's field of law, but until the match they didn't know if it would be east or west coast.

 

[ravengirl]

Date: 5/7/2009 4:50:31 PM
Author: megumic
I don''t have advice on how to sort out where you''ll end up in a few years, except that everything does and will work out. (I totally believe in fate and karma!) But I wanted to say CONGRATS on getting into law school - such a huge feat in itself.

And GOOD LUCK with 1L year. I''ve got two exams left of my 1L year next week - all I can say is it''s an amazing experience, a wonderfully frustrating but rewarding challenge and don''t be too hard on yourself!


Also, being at a top school makes you more flexible in terms of job search. Many law schools cater locally, but if you''re top 20, you''ll have a pretty portable degree if you do well.


Good luck!

Thank you! Congratulations on getting through your first year! I can''t wait for school to start this fall. I''ve been out of school for a year and a half (graduated from undergrad in Dec. ''07) and I am just ITCHING to get back to class.

 

[ravengirl]

Cara, wow, I really REALLY appreciate the time you took to write me that. It is very interesting to hear about others'' experiences.

I know less about the law school process, but aren''t the firms you do your summer internships with very important, as they usually offer you a job if you do well?

Yes. One of the many reasons I am thinking/worrying about this already. I''ve heard people say that your most important grades are your first semester grades...because they determine your summer work after 1L. Which will influence your summer work after 2L, which often results in a job offer for after graduation. Not sure how true this is, but it certainly puts the stress on right away!

As for my BF, I think he will be pretty highly competitive. He goes to a top ten med school and his grades have been very good so far this year. He''s definitely an excellent test taker. Ortho is by no means set in stone---it''s just what he is currently most interested in. It''s funny that you mentioned plastic surgery, because that''s something else he''s tossed around in his mind (but he knows much less about plastic surgery than orthopedics). There''s just so much unknown right now, which makes it hard. I like to have a PLAN.

Yes, I followed allycat''s ordeal...it certainly made the uncertainty of my situation more real! Wait, did she finally find a residency? *Off to go stalk allycat*

 

[basil]

My husband and I are both in medicine and we live in different cities...for the past three years and for the next two months.. Our timing didn''t work out that well, since I we both matched in different cities about 2 weeks after we met.

My advice would be to try and aim for the bigger cities, since they will have more options for jobs for you, and will have multiple or larger residency programs for him. I think it is key to decide where you want to go early. That way he can do away rotations during his third/fourth year and meet the people in those programs which will increase his chances of matching there. Also, maybe I''m biased, but I''d aim for the east coast...NYC to New Haven or Boston to Providence are much more manageable than Houston to Dallas or whatever, and lots of good hospitals up that way.

And anyway, speaking from personal experience....long distance sucks but it''s not the end of the world.