Judgement

[CJ2008]

I can''t stand either extreme...

I hate it when people are judgmental about everything - always looking for the negative in the people.

But I also hate it when people make it sound as if they''re NEVER judgmental - and how they wouldn''t pass judgment on anybody for any reason...

 

[dragonfly411]

I think it''s quite natural to judge people one way or another. I don''t believe in acting on those judgments without knowing all the facts about the situation/person beforehand though. I might get a first impression of not liking a person, but they turn out to be pretty cool, just different than what I''m used to.

Although I must say... normally my gut doesn''t steer me wrong.

 

[Bia]

Date: 6/26/2009 3:16:17 PM
Author: dragonfly411
I think it''s quite natural to judge people one way or another. I don''t believe in acting on those judgments without knowing all the facts about the situation/person beforehand though. I might get a first impression of not liking a person, but they turn out to be pretty cool, just different than what I''m used to.

Although I must say... normally my gut doesn''t steer me wrong.

+1

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 6/26/2009 6:45:42 AM
Author: MissGotRocks

As I''ve gotten older, my judgements are less harsh. I realize that everything isn''t black and white or good or bad. There are alot of gray areas. I am far from perfect myself and I accept that in others as well. When I was younger, I was probably much more idealistic. I was harsher in my assessments of others. I have learned to mind my own business so to speak. I am freer now to determine who and what I associate with and if I choose not to associate with someone, I don''t sweat the details of it. It''s my choice to make.


It''s a good, thought provoking question but I think we are constantly changing and evolving as we grow. No two people are in the same place in their lives at any given time so my opinion may differ greatly from yours. That''s not wrong - it just is.

ditto that is how I view judgement too.

 

[brandy_z28]

Date: 6/26/2009 4:55:53 PM
Author: Skippy123

Date: 6/26/2009 6:45:42 AM
Author: MissGotRocks

As I''ve gotten older, my judgements are less harsh. I realize that everything isn''t black and white or good or bad. There are alot of gray areas. I am far from perfect myself and I accept that in others as well. When I was younger, I was probably much more idealistic. I was harsher in my assessments of others. I have learned to mind my own business so to speak. I am freer now to determine who and what I associate with and if I choose not to associate with someone, I don''t sweat the details of it. It''s my choice to make.


It''s a good, thought provoking question but I think we are constantly changing and evolving as we grow. No two people are in the same place in their lives at any given time so my opinion may differ greatly from yours. That''s not wrong - it just is.

ditto that is how I view judgement too.

Very well said. I agree.

I see passing judgement as making a well informed decision based on an objective opinion and not solely on a first impression. I try not to judge people but I do. Opinions are just that. Believing something doesn''t make it true.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 6/26/2009 1:07:23 AM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 6/25/2009 11:46:55 PM

Author: luckystar112

Date: 6/25/2009 10:01:42 PM

Author: thing2of2

I judge people all the time and I don''t think there''s anything wrong with it. In personal relationships my judgement is the only thing that really matters. Because I have very little patience for people in general I only have a few good friends, and it doesn''t bother me in the least. I''d rather spend time alone or with the few people I respect and enjoy being with than spend time with a bunch of people I don''t really like.

My twin sister is very much the opposite of me, and she''ll be friends with pretty much anyone. I don''t really understand that mindset, but I will say she has a lot more friends than me! She tells me I''m too picky but I just can''t bring myself to spend time with people I don''t really like being around.

ETA: my gut judgements are pretty much never wrong, either.

Ditto all of this. Except for the twin sister part!

I think it''s human nature to judge.

Then why are we so offended when others do so? Is it because they disagree with the judgement being made?

Well I''m not offended when others judge and I honestly don''t know why others are offended. I think many people are peacekeepers, don''t like conflict, etc., and maybe making judgements about others is seen as somewhat confrontational. But that''s a total guess because I really don''t know!

 

[risingsun]

Attempting to tread carefully here...sometimes a group of people has enough facts to make a judgment that can affect the lives of many and choose to do nothing. I believe this group has a responsibility to take action and not act liike a bunch of sheep. On a personal level, I make judgments every day. I choose how to act on these judgments. I do not choose to go through life without any filters. Like most of us, I've been burned. I'm more careful with my interpersonal relationships now. As a counselor, I make assessments about clients ,as part of my job. This is a professional judgment. Having opinions, making judgments and choices are part of human dynamics. It can also be called discernment, which places another aspect to the act of judging.

 

[somethingshiny]

How come "judgement" has such a negative connotation? When you say that someone is a good ball-player, a great friend, has great taste in jewelry, is a hard worker--those are all judgements too.

We all know it''s just not kind to find faults in others, but it doesn''t make the judgement process a bad thing.

And, for those who are severely analytical, my guess is they''re more likely to find good and bad judgements in people. It''s just how their mind works.

As far as the original question "when is it acceptable to pass judgement on others?" It''s perfectly acceptable to *most* of the population to pass positive judgements at the drop of a hat. We call them compliments. But, society dictates that we hold our tongue with anything less than positive unless the person in question is a criminal. If we pass negative judgements we''re called "harsh, forward, speaks-her-mind" and the like. And, we''re viewed as bitter, nasty, mean, etc. Why is it okay to have positive judgement but not negative? Both outcomes are based on the same procedure.

In the spirit of just trying to answer the question, though...I judge people quickly and accurately. Is it kind? Not necessarily, but it is essentially a self-preservation method. We distance ourselves from those who "feel" bad to us. We hold tight to those who are "good."

 

[DiamondFlame]

Trust your gut instincts. The human race would not have survived without it. It''s the same instinct that gives animals that split second headstart to evade predators. What we call gut feel is actually a complex high speed calculation made at the subconcious level. From the way a person speaks, the way he holds himself, the mannerism, the micro-expressions, the body language ...these are the info your subconcious processes to arrive at that ''snap'' judgement.

If you try to rationalise it, you''ll be scrabbling at thin air for answers. But time will show you that your first instincts had been accurate. So if a person gives me bad vibes from the get go, I won''t go out of my way to avoid him. But I certainly won''t be the first to welcome him into my inner circle. Unlike my GF who is more accepting of others but end up with ''good time'' friends who quit when the times cease to be good.

 

[zhuzhu]

I often find "the way" people judge reflecting more on them than the subject that is being judged. People who are not shy about passing on compliments and approvals often have positive minds, and appreciate finer things/traits in others. Therefore they subconsciously pick up the "good traits" in others. People who are chronic complainers often are discontent about themselves, by putting others down, their cognitive distortion makes them feel they are "better people" by contrast. This applies only to the judgment on the personal level, not on professional level. However I also observe that people in the profession which they are required to judge "ie: teachers, consular, judge.." often become more judgmental on the personal level because they have so much practice at it. Judging others become natural to them after so many years of doing it.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/25/2009 8:30:38 PM
Author:KimberlyH

While the idea of judging others is one we as a society like to naysay, we make judgements every day.

I was going to point out that the famous writer and Existentialist philosopher Albert Camus made this point in his novel, L''étranger. I had quoted from it on Pricescope before, so I entered the quotation into the search engine, but decided not to post a link since the thread that came up was a political one (may it and all the others rest in peace).

So I will repeat the quotation here, instead. He had one of his characters say, "tout le monde juge". "Everyone judges". So you are echoing the sentiments of a very thoughtful man, Kimberly .

AGBF

 

[Mara]

Date: 6/25/2009 8:30:38 PM
Author:KimberlyH
While the idea of judging others is one we as a society like to naysay, we make judgements every day. It is how we determine who we are friends with, who we admire, who we won't associate with, who we like, who we emulate, who we detest, etc.

So when is it acceptable to you to pass judgement on others? And when is it not and why?

Anytime I want. A judgement to me is like an opinion or a 'fact' in my mind. A judgement or opinions don't have to carry positive or negative, people are how they are and sometimes things are just that way. For me, I will pass judgement mentally any time I wish, and there aren't typically requirements around it.

 

[KimberlyH]

So most feel it''s acceptable to pass judgement. Is it acceptable to pass judgement in life but not in death?

 

[somethingshiny]

If you''re talking about the MJ thread, I didn''t even read your post before I posted mine. After I read the entire thread I started thinking that you could view a lot of the posts as a personal attack. While I don''t think that was intended, I do think that people try not to speak ill of the dead, at least for a few days, just out of respect.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 6/29/2009 6:55:55 PM
Author: somethingshiny
If you''re talking about the MJ thread, I didn''t even read your post before I posted mine. After I read the entire thread I started thinking that you could view a lot of the posts as a personal attack. While I don''t think that was intended, I do think that people try not to speak ill of the dead, at least for a few days, just out of respect.

It''s what started my thinking about judgements in general, and generated the original question. My question today was spurred by the many people who are celebrating Madoffs'' sentence, both on and off this board just as many people here and elsewhere mourn Michael Jackson''s death, and I wondered how people will react when he, Madoff, dies in jail (will the sentiment be "Good" or "How sad!"). So in a way, yes, but it brought about a larger question in my mind of passing judgement in general and when it''s acceptable, when it isn''t why, and how people make that determination and then why it''s okay to say bad things about people who are living but not about those who are dead.

A personal example: My grandfather was a mean SOB, and when he died there was definitely a sense of loss but it never meant we couldn''t/can''t still say that he was a mean SOB. His death didn''t elevate him to a different status and it certainly didn''t change who he was in life and no one who was close to him felt the need to try to censure those facts.

 

[somethingshiny]

I think part of the Madoff thing could be because you are sort of in contact with people who were directly affected on that issue. At least a whole lot more than a person like me. MJ was "forgiven" because all the allegations were unsubstantiated and blown off because none of "us" was directly affected. Also, so many people think they really "know" a celebrity and actually mourn their loss as they would a friend. I''m guessing MJ had a much larger fan base to begin with and even if only a small fraction of those are voicing their loss, it''s significantly more than Madoff will ever be able to claim.

So, to me, this isn''t really a "judgement" thing, more of a "who''s who."

I know that was all rambly, I just couldn''t quite make it come out right....

 

[MissGotRocks]

We were always told not to speak ill of the dead - I guess maybe because they have presumably had their judgement day by a higher power. I guess as long as you are speaking the truth it doesn''t matter but then again, whose truth? That subject could just go on and on - based on your perspective.

I did see a poll today about Madoff''s sentence - asking if it was fair or not. Another hard call as he has probably ruined alot of lives - at least financially. How do you really come up with a just punishment for something like what he did? I don''t know but I''m sure I would definitely have a stronger opinion if it had been my money he stole from me. In the end, there are no winners in a case like that. Everyone loses in that sad story.

 

[KimberlyH]

Thanks for coming back MGR and SS.

SS, I totally get what you're saying (although some might argue there is proof enough of what MJ was accused of, he just didn't get convicted). I just find it interesting that, in general, we can vilify one man, no matter who he is, and glorify another, no matter who he is, when they both could be percieved as evil. I wonder if death is what forces us to cross the line into "No judgement" or if it's the perception people have of those people in life. While my thoughts were spurred by the media frenzy over these two in the last week (and months and years...) it caused me to question the general idea of judging others and why it's okay sometimes but not others. My husband would say I am too hard on my grandfather, that I judge him by the wrong set of standards, but it doesn't change what I think of him (I love him but didn't respect his ideals, values, etc.).

MGR, "whos' truth" is an interesting question. We all have our own and who are we to say anyone elses' is right or wrong. My truths about religion, politics, crime, etc. are likely to be different from yours. I have heard the phrase "never speak ill of the dead" but it's not what I was taught and that colors my perception of what is right and wrong (see the example of my grandfather).

 

[zhuzhu]

Precisely because the standard of truth varies among different individuals, I think the judgment being made ultimately reflects more about the "person who judges" instead the ones being "judged".

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 6/30/2009 12:05:43 AM
Author: zhuzhu
Precisely because the standard of truth varies among different individuals, I think the judgment being made ultimately reflects more about the ''person who judges'' instead the ones being ''judged''.

Of course it does, it''s part of what makes us uniquely ourselves; judgement shows how forgiving a person is, how the person views the world, what they believe to be right, wrong, forgivable, detestable, etc. But does it make it wrong?

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 6/30/2009 9:30:08 AM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 6/30/2009 12:05:43 AM

Author: zhuzhu

Precisely because the standard of truth varies among different individuals, I think the judgment being made ultimately reflects more about the ''person who judges'' instead the ones being ''judged''.

Of course it does, it''s part of what makes us uniquely ourselves; judgement shows how forgiving a person is, how the person views the world, what they believe to be right, wrong, forgivable, detestable, etc. But does it make it wrong?

What do YOU think, Kimberly?

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 6/30/2009 10:41:56 AM
Author: RubyCharm

Date: 6/30/2009 9:30:08 AM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 6/30/2009 12:05:43 AM

Author: zhuzhu

Precisely because the standard of truth varies among different individuals, I think the judgment being made ultimately reflects more about the 'person who judges' instead the ones being 'judged'.

Of course it does, it's part of what makes us uniquely ourselves; judgement shows how forgiving a person is, how the person views the world, what they believe to be right, wrong, forgivable, detestable, etc. But does it make it wrong?

What do YOU think, Kimberly?

I would rather be discerning about who I associate with and admire, so in that regard I am judgemental, and I don't think it's wrong. I believe there's a way to do so without being cruel. There are people I work with and with whom I am acquainted that make life choices which I find disturbing, they have no idea I feel this way as I am polite, but I would never befriend these people. My mother would say I am too judgemental, that I have too many opinions; my husband would say I'm not discerning enough.

 

[zhuzhu]

Date: 6/30/2009 4:01:04 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 6/30/2009 10:41:56 AM

Author: RubyCharm

Date: 6/30/2009 9:30:08 AM

Author: KimberlyH

Date: 6/30/2009 12:05:43 AM


Author: zhuzhu


Precisely because the standard of truth varies among different individuals, I think the judgment being made ultimately reflects more about the ''person who judges'' instead the ones being ''judged''.

Of course it does, it''s part of what makes us uniquely ourselves; judgement shows how forgiving a person is, how the person views the world, what they believe to be right, wrong, forgivable, detestable, etc. But does it make it wrong?

What do YOU think, Kimberly?

I would rather be discerning about who I associate with and admire, so in that regard I am judgemental, and I don''t think it''s wrong. I believe there''s a way to do so without being cruel. There are people I work with and with whom I am acquainted that make life choices which I find disturbing, they have no idea I feel this way as I am polite, but I would never befriend these people. My mother would say I am too judgemental, that I have too many opinions; my husband would say I''m not discerning enough.

As long as your judgments cause no harm (emotional or physical)onto others, I really don''t think it can be called "wrong". It just is. Those who voice their judgment openly are risking their own reputation, but it is really not a moral issue per se.