Is there such a thing as True Altruism?

[Missy]

So I agree that altruism exists because people do nice things for others but always (usually) get something (or the promise of something) in return don't they?

I was just discussing this with my dh this morning. I don't know why I was thinking about this when I woke up today but I started thinking about my volunteering and also my work and about how it makes me feel so good to do good for others and then I started thinking doesn't that mean then that it isn't really altruism. Because I am getting something (valuable) from helping others. Be it animals or people.

I get this huge sense of happiness and peace when I can help others. It is almost like a relief and a weight being lifted from my soul/brain when I can fix a problem for somebody or make somebody's life better or easier. I cannot describe it very well but it is almost necessary for me to deal with life's aggravation/anxiety/stress if that makes sense. That is the best way I can explain it.

So that brings me to the question does true/real altruism exist? Are we programmed to be altruistic because of the selfish good feelings that arise form that behavior and then doesn't that by definition make it not truly altruistic behavior which means unselfish acts for the good of others.

Of course some people are more altruistic than others. So what motivates those who are generous and kind and giving vs those who are less so. Doesn't everybody get a huge satisfaction from helping others? Why do some people just do more than others? Do some act more with the motivation of furthering their own interests? Do nice guys always finish last? Or are people who are more "altruistic" happier intrinsically? More content and more satisfied with life in general?

When I think of it in purely personal terms I think it provides a sense of meaning and a life goal to do whatever I can to help animals for example. It helps relieve the stress I feel when I see animals who are suffering/homeless/sick/ etc. I know I cannot save them all but by doing what I can I can live with the pain I feel when I see and think of the suffering all around.

I don't think that my need to help others is special in any way just to make that clear. I feel I *need* to do it and it doesn't make me a special or extra good person for doing so. Doing good helps me feel good but not always to the same degree and there are many times I just feel overwhelmed and upset about what I cannot do or all that there is to do.

I shudder at what kind of world we would be living in if people didn't care about others and want to make life better for all though I am getting a glimpse with the current political administration.

So why do you behave altruistically? Do you get something from it or are you purely unselfish in your motivation? Have you ever thought about it and is it more clear cut for you? And maybe more importantly how do you think we raise the level of altruism in the world to make the world a better and kinder and nicer place to be?

And of course I realize in the end who cares what the motives are as long as one does good and makes another's life better because of it but I was just thinking about it and decided to see if other PSers would kindly (haha) share their thoughts.

And if you got this far thank you for reading this long post!

 

[Tekate]

Out of love... but I can't say I'm as altruistic as I wish I was Missy. I have a strong sense of helping others, but then I fear getting involved (because everytime I do I end up doing more than i have time for etc)... to be honest with you, I have wrestled with this my whole life.. and don't have any great answer .. I just keep on doing what I can because what i want back is satisfaction.

Peace!!!

 

[Missy]

Tekate I hear you. There is that (wise) saying that No Good Deed Goes Unpunished and I have to say that more than often happens but still we keep trying to do what we can...so maybe that is true altruism? And wishing you peace and contentment too!

 

[Kbell]

I think it costs nothing to be kind to others you encounter throughout the day. I think it almost always feels good to make others feel good. Sometimes you make a person's day just by giving a simple compliment. You may not even know the effect it has! I think just being on the other end of such encounters motivates me to try to be better.

I think it always feels good to help, but that can change if you start to feel taken advantage of especially when things get more involved. And there it is - I think you do expect something in return most of the time if you've helped someone out even if it's just a heartfelt Thank You... and if you don't get appreciation or at least acknowledgment you start to lose that "good" feeling... and when you lose that "good" feeling you start to step back from giving.

I wish I had more time to volunteer at an animal shelter because I just love animals. Maybe one day when I have less on my plate. But that also is a warm & fuzzy feeling... so I'd still get something in return.

 

[ksinger]

I don't think there is pure anything, really. So no, true altruism is a bit too rarefied to actually exist, IMO. It's too theoretical. I mean, how many people spend a ton of time doing things for others that expects no return AND elicits zero interior satisfaction or reinforcement of self? We don't even go that far with our spouses or children. We even have children expecting (reasonably I would say) that our love will be returned, that give and take. Would we do any of it - marriage, children, without getting something out of it for ourselves? Honestly, I don't think that "love" that is unreciprocated, can even be love. So if we can't even manage total selflessness in our personal relationships, why would we expect to be able to do it with strangers?

However, that doesn't mean that I reject altruism as a moral good. And however you conceive of it or define it, at the end of the day, actions speak much louder than words. Not every action should be weighed by tit for tat. If you're doing that, you're just a true jerk.

Keep doing your thing Missy, don't fret the definitions.

 

[Matata]

Technically, altruism means doing something that enhances the life of another with no expectation of quid pro quo. Deriving personal pleasure from doing altruistic deeds does not negate altruism.

 

[MarionC]

Yes, I completely believe it exists.

 

[Missy]

I think it costs nothing to be kind to others you encounter throughout the day. I think it almost always feels good to make others feel good. Sometimes you make a person's day just by giving a simple compliment. You may not even know the effect it has! I think just being on the other end of such encounters motivates me to try to be better.

I think it always feels good to help, but that can change if you start to feel taken advantage of especially when things get more involved. And there it is - I think you do expect something in return most of the time if you've helped someone out even if it's just a heartfelt Thank You... and if you don't get appreciation or at least acknowledgment you start to lose that "good" feeling... and when you lose that "good" feeling you start to step back from giving.

I wish I had more time to volunteer at an animal shelter because I just love animals. Maybe one day when I have less on my plate. But that also is a warm & fuzzy feeling... so I'd still get something in return.

Thanks Kbell. I agree that if only more people could be kind to others there is no downside and really it takes IMO less energy to be kind than to be careless or mean. I think it takes a lot of energy to be not nice vs how easy it is to smile and offer a helping hand or even a kind word. The question is why don't we see this more? Is everyone just in a bad mood because of what is going on in the world? I feel it helps me deal with all the unpleasantness I see all around me by combating it with kindness and generosity.

Technically, altruism means doing something that enhances the life of another with no expectation of quid pro quo. Deriving personal pleasure from doing altruistic deeds does not negate altruism.

I like this definition Matata, thanks. Makes sense just because one derives satisfaction from doing "good" doesn't take away the altruism of the deed.

I don't think there is pure anything, really. So no, true altruism is a bit too rarefied to actually exist, IMO. It's too theoretical. I mean, how many people spend a ton of time doing things for others that expects no return AND elicits zero interior satisfaction or reinforcement of self? We don't even go that far with our spouses or children. We even have children expecting (reasonably I would say) that our love will be returned, that give and take. Would we do any of it - marriage, children, without getting something out of it for ourselves? Honestly, I don't think that "love" that is unreciprocated, can even be love. So if we can't even manage total selflessness in our personal relationships, why would we expect to be able to do it with strangers?

However, that doesn't mean that I reject altruism as a moral good. And however you conceive of it or define it, at the end of the day, actions speak much louder than words. Not every action should be weighed by tit for tat. If you're doing that, you're just a true jerk.

Keep doing your thing Missy, don't fret the definitions.

Thanks Karen. All excellent points. Yes we don't get married raise kids and work hard without deriving some kind of benefit from it real or imagined. Though sometimes I think my dh is a saint LOL and is pretty darn selfless when it comes to me. But you know what "they" say. Happy wife happy life.

Yes I will keep doing my thing. I over think things too much and this was just one of those questions that popped into my head this morning.

Yes, I completely believe it exists.

And that is why I love you Jimmianne. A true romantic at heart.

 

[jordyonbass]

I believe it does; every time I help a broken down motorist jumpstart their car, hold a door open for someone, help a parent get their pram/stroller off a train, the time I tackled a mother a child out of the way of a moving car and hit the ground so hard with them on top of me that I felt like I had been a hit by a truck for a week - in all those situations I have no interest or selfish reasons that I can think of to have done those things.
By definition, I believe it is altruism and I believe most people are similarly inclined to me (well I hope they would be!).

 

[Missy]

I believe it does; every time I help a broken down motorist jumpstart their car, hold a door open for someone, help a parent get their pram/stroller off a train, the time I tackled a mother a child out of the way of a moving car and hit the ground so hard with them on top of me that I felt like I had been a hit by a truck for a week - in all those situations I have no interest or selfish reasons that I can think of to have done those things.
By definition, I believe it is altruism and I believe most people are similarly inclined to me (well I hope they would be!).

Jordy, you are a true gentleman and all around wonderful guy!
And I am not saying that just because of your beautiful opals.

 

[Calliecake]

I also truly believe this exists.

 

[monarch64]

Missy, you asked "why don't we see this more?" I think regarding people helping others? I think it's because there is a lot of effort involved in helping someone else. There is typically financial effort, emotional effort, mental effort, and physical effort. It takes a lot of extra energy for one OK person to help one other not so OK person. People help when they can, if they WANT to, and if they are able. I'm not sure anyone has ever existed who was completely altruistic unless we're talking about religious figures like M. Theresa or JC, etc. Even those examples might not comply as they were human, and therefore inherently flawed. Isn't it human nature/innate to put oneself first solely for the sake of survival?

 

[ksinger]

Missy, you asked "why don't we see this more?" I think regarding people helping others? I think it's because there is a lot of effort involved in helping someone else. There is typically financial effort, emotional effort, mental effort, and physical effort. It takes a lot of extra energy for one OK person to help one other not so OK person. People help when they can, if they WANT to, and if they are able. I'm not sure anyone has ever existed who was completely altruistic unless we're talking about religious figures like M. Theresa or JC, etc. Even those examples might not comply as they were human, and therefore inherently flawed. Isn't it human nature/innate to put oneself first solely for the sake of survival?

Not really. Or it's certainly not going to come down every time on the side of individual survival. Not when we sentient types have time to cogitate over it. Which we do. Like here.

I'd say we're wired for group or species survival too. I think that's what kicks in when someone sacrifices their life for someone younger - that's usually better for group survival, and we know that too on some level. That's why, IMO, the "group" or "tribe" is usually defined narrowly. So we can balance the innate personal survival drive, with the other innate drive to make sure the species survives. If I had to give my all for every single person I met who could benefit from me giving all, I'd minimize my own chance of passing on genes.

 

[kenny]

I'd say there is no such thing as true altruism.

Even anonymous charity gives the giver a good feeling.

 

[monarch64]

Not really. Or it's certainly not going to come down every time on the side of individual survival. Not when we sentient types have time to cogitate over it. Which we do. Like here.

I'd say we're wired for group or species survival too. I think that's what kicks in when someone sacrifices their life for someone younger - that's usually better for group survival, and we know that too on some level. That's why, IMO, the "group" or "tribe" is usually defined narrowly. So we can balance the innate personal survival drive, with the other innate drive to make sure the species survives. If I had to give my all for every single person I met who could benefit from me giving all, I'd minimize my own chance of passing on genes.

Thanks, Ksinger, for expanding. What you say makes a lot of sense. When I was posting aka typing out my immediate thoughts this morning, I had not thought further than "help yourself before helping others" as you're instructed to do on a flight. Of course we must be wired for species survival; else we wouldn't have (seemingly) unexplainable urges to procreate. Man, that biological clock knocked me upside the head one day and that was that--and I swore from the time I was about 16 that I would never let that happen.