Is A Certified Used (Toyota) Car Worth It?

[HVVS]

Date: 2/3/2010 8:14:56 AM
Author: thing2of2
ksinger-in DF's defense (did I just say that?!

) HVVS is the one who started in with that. S/he's just jealous because s/he is stuck driving American cars.

I am a she.

STUCK?! HAHAHAHAHAHA. And not jealous by a longshot.

If anyone is "stuck, it's certainly not me. I am not "stuck" with anything. They can be parted out profitably, if not sold intact. I opted. I own outright all of my 5 American vehicles. 3 are easy keepers and darned near bulletproof from a maintenance and engineering standpoint; one is a huge, huge, prima dona for certain but I knew that going into it and bought for fun and speed; and the other has real potential for the drag strip with the appropriate mods even if it does totally lack cupholders. I could just have easily paid cash for a boring-as-Hades-unless-it's-running-away Camry. LOL!

Here are some comments regarding the possibility of RFI and EMI interference in Toyota / Lexus. Anyone who has a vehicle with this potential problem, you should keep tabs on this issue. The spector of that wold have been enough to make me buy some other brand, since the acceleration prob is spread randomly over several models including trucks.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/our-point-of-view-post.aspx?id=2234

Chad H., February 02, 2010
Anyone that has any experience at all with technical computer issues can see that this is a "code" issue on the chips that control acceleration. The evidence clearly supports that and the people who have experienced the issue swear on their lives that nothing they did could stop the vehicle. This will be very difficult to diagnose and fix. I read one article that stated the driver had no brakes, the brake light was flashing, she COULD NOT put the vehicle in Neutral. Toyota denies that there is any issue with the electronics which looks very bad. I wish someone in the media would ask them why they are quietly re-flashing the chips that control acceleration and braking with new code that allows the brakes to override the gas pedal if there is no electronic issue. Someone please ask them that question. Why isn't anyone talking about that? I have to believe that the family in San Diego tried to apply the brakes, put the car in Neutral, etc., nothing worked. They had enough time to try these things and the 911 call was the last thing they thought to do.

Robert DeGraff, January 27, 2010
I recently purchased a new 2010 Camry and am a retired professional engineer with some experience in forensic engineering investigation and have experience in applying Tepner-Tregoe analysis to puzzling situations. You have to look at "what as changed" and "what is different" between test conditions and actual field conditions in variable and extreme situations such as the reports of sudden acceleration caused or allowed by the fly by wire throttle control. The persistent but infrequent reports indicate that Toyota engineers have missed something in their testing. Although most inside engineers are resistant to suggestion from outsiders, I'll offer my comments and concerns for their review: there are several transient situations which electronic controlled vehicles must resist, commonly called EMI and RFI. 1) when you pass under, over or next to high power electric lines, not only is some energy imposed but a doppler effect can swing the frequency. Yes , some high power lines are under you, buried under the roadway such as the emergency feeders for O'Hare airport. How adequate is the EMI shielding for emissions from beneath? Some power lines are heavily loaded and emit stronger signals when they approach capacity or during surges just before and while their breakers trip. 2) cellphones, blackberies and wireless laptops also emit some strange and variable signals. I'm told that as a cellphone gets farther from its tower, it increases its power. At least 2 of the reports of apparent fly-by wire runaways mention the use of their cellphone during the incidents. Certainly these devices get very close to the car's computer(s). 3) there are stray emissions from CBs ham radios and other (sometimes illegal) broadcasting which may induce problems with RFI on computer controls. Many years ago, early computer controlled braking systems on IH trucks suffered wild scenarios until they were very throughly RF shielded. Could it be that some similar transients are affecting Toyota fly by wire throttle computer controls? I am not trying to be a wise guy; just offereing some outside ideas for them to reconsider in their testing for the elusive cause of infrequent but terrifying runaways.
response:
Paul Phelps, January 30, 2010
I am British and worked as a QA Engineer for an Engine Management Systems manufacturer in the past. Toyota has just undertaken a recall extension in Europe, of that started in the US. I concur with most of what you have said. As well as radiated energy being the possible cause of the problem, there are other electrical input errors from external sensors that could generate incorrect signals if they should malfunction. The Design Failure Mode and Effects Analysis should highlight all possible failure modes arising from malfunctioning sensor or extraneously radiated input signals. Toyota is a very professional company and I would well imagine their engineers have gone, and are still going through, all possible system scenarios that could lead to acceleration surges, if indeed this is the reason for the worldwide recall. The drive-by-wire engine management software is key to the problem. It should be robust to illogical inputs and cross-check inputs to ensure they are indeed possible. Noisy inputs generated by EMI or RFI should be filtered by hardware networks before the signal is processed, to minimize their influence on the true electrical input signals and the software processing thereafter. The bottom line is that the fuel injectors are pulsed with a modulated signal from the ECU that varies their opening times, dependent on inputs and the programmed fuel map. This in turn allows more gas into the cylinders with the resulting accelerations/decelerations accordingly. I take my hat off to Toyota for biting the bullet on this very expensive recall and I believe their professionalism and engineering will find the root cause of the problem and an effective countermeasure to resolve it.

 

[iheartscience]

Jealousy is a terrible thing, but denial might be even worse.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Wow, this thread went in a really weird direction!

FWIW, I own a 2006 Mercury Mariner (Ford product) which we bought brand new, and I love it. My last car was a 1995 Honda del Sol, which I also loved. Before that I had a 1990 Hyundai Excel (my first car), and I loved that one too! I buy the car, not the make or nationality.

ETA: T2O2, congratulations on your BEAUTIFUL new car!!!

 

[pennquaker09]

HVVS, I don't think anyone minds the American vs Foreign conversation, but this is not on topic. I feel like this is taking on a negative tone, and at the end of the day, they're just cars and we can't take them with us when we die.

Btw, I drive a Mercedes and very rarely a BMW, so I don't have a love of any particular brand.

 

[iheartscience]

Yeah it hasn''t been on topic since I posted it, but hey, whatevs! And thanks, Irishgrrl! I love it!

 

[poshpepper]

Congrats on your new car, its pretty

Hope you get a lot of enjoyment and use out of her!
I love my Toytoa Solara!

 

[onvacation]

Date: 2/3/2010 7:59:41 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/3/2010 12:25:29 AM

Author: onvacation

Oooh, congrats! Love the color. It''s hard to find nice colors when buying used! Is that the manual in your hand there?

Thanks! I''m so glad I found the silver-I''m pretty picky about car colors and the silver is so nice! And that is indeed the manual-good eye! I already used it to figure out where the MP3 jack to plug my iPhone in was!

Those jacks are so convenient. I wish I had one in my car, which is currently super dirty because it''s covered with salt from the roads. ick, hate that. . .

Seriously, I would just up and move to Florida if it weren''t for school. One more year, and I''ll be there!