if your FI ask you to sign a prenuptial...would you?

[musey]

Date: 4/29/2009 5:19:09 PM
Author: Steel

Date: 4/29/2009 4:48:58 PM
Author: Elmorton
Oh, I don't know why I'm stirring the pot with this -

-but I don't get the argument 'Why should I get what he had before we met?'

I can't speak for everybody else.

I would use the pre-nup to secure and safeguard future wealth not solely for existing wealth.

I feel they are particularly useful when 2 people enter the marriage but over time one supports the other in furtherance of that other's career. Either by living in another location, child-rearing or other support methods. If not for the fact that the non-benefiting spouse took on that burden the career benefiting spouse would not achieve the level of success they achieve. So when the marriage dissolves and the supporting spouse finds themself in the labour market they often cannot enter at the same level they left and certainly not on a comparable level had they not left. So I feel they deserve to share in the future success of supported spouse. But in the event of marital breakdown neither spouse would choose to be 'fair' to the other. Hence why I feel a pre-nup signed when times are good will often be more favourable than that fought out after he/she finds a pair of undies in the glove compartment.

Of course everywhere is different, but where I live that generally is a given. Prenups protect only the assets acquired before a marriage, where assets required after the wedding are automatically 'joint' assets. You can write in a clause that, for example, says "All of Mary's financial assets acquired from her career as a day trader shall be hers alone in the event of a divorce" (or something

), but it will be mostly ignored in divorce court.

There are exceptions, but that's my general understanding for my area.

 

[zhuzhu]

Well. It all depends on what that prenup says, doesn''t it?

Did you sign one, DF?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/29/2009 5:35:34 PM
Author: vespergirl
In general, no, and we do not have a prenup. However, if I had married a billionaire or something, I wouldn''t have been surprised if he asked me to sign one. I just would have had a lawyer go over it & send back requirements of my own. However, I think that for the average couple, they are not necessary, and start off marriage on a bad foot.

I have a friend who signed a prenup, and it made her not trust her husband (he''s a lawyer who had been through a bad divorce & wanted one for his second marriage to her). I have to say, though, that she was so depressed about the prenup, that they are now having marital problems. She told me that the fact that he thought they might need one really hurt her feelings, and now she doesn''t see him the same way. It''s really sad, because they were engaged for a year and a half & just started to plan the wedding when she got pregnant 8 months before the wedding date. He sprung the prenup on her 2 years after their engagement, but a few months before their baby was due. She felt that she had no choice but to sign it & marry him at that point. I thought that was so crappy of him.

why ??

if she signs the prenup that should prove to him that shes not marrying for the money.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/29/2009 5:54:39 PM
Author: zhuzhu
Well. It all depends on what that prenup says, doesn't it?

Did you sign one, DF?

nope,cuz neither one of us had any money or had rich parents,but if she did come from a rich family then i would have no problem about signing a prenup.

 

[FrekeChild]

Freke:
--stands to potentially have a sizable inheritance
--has no debt (or credit for that matter)
--has a divorce attorney for a father
--will probably not make anything close to what her FI will

Freke''s FI:
--has a decent amount of student loans
--has average credit
--will be primary breadwinner (99% sure of this)
--realizes that because of his FFIL''s job, he''d be screwed in the event of divorce anyway (AND he still wants to marry me despite my dad''s job!)

Neither of us is against the idea. Neither of us wants to screw over the other one. Might as well look into it. I imagine it would say something along these lines, "Finances/debts/inheritance before marriage will remain their sole concern in the event of divorce. Finances gained during the marriage will be split 50/50 or to the agreement of both parties." Etc.

I really don''t see how it''s setting up a marriage to fail. In the event of divorce, it can be thrown out...

 

[allycat0303]

Yes. Oh my gosh yes. I just wish Quebec had something other then no-fault divorce. I would actually feel a lot safer by knowing EXACTLY what I have to lose should I get divorced. I don''t like the unknown. I believe I can provide for myself and my future children, and I don''t think I would actually want anything from him. I would want as little to do with him as I could (in the case of divorce).

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 4/29/2009 5:35:34 PM
Author: vespergirl
He sprung the prenup on her 2 years after their engagement, but a few months before their baby was due. She felt that she had no choice but to sign it & marry him at that point. I thought that was so crappy of him.

That''s an important issue, isn''t it? That pre-nups really disrupt trust... and often are produced at the very end point of a long dating relationship.

Also, I feel that perhaps a lot of single women who have not yet have children may not fully comprehend how their lives might change once they have had kids. It is so easy, as a young graduate, to feel you are going to ''take on the world''. And for many well-connected young women, this may be true. But, equally so, for many other women, this is not the case. They find that children disrupt their money-making opportunities in ways they hadn''t expected.

Aren''t there other legal ''systems '' that help prevent dodgy in-laws from accessing old family money and family businesses, such as trusts?

 

[Camille]

I agree w/Freke, also would like to add may not be romantic, adults with solid grounds shouldn't be bother by it, let's face it... they are much better than post nups.
I won't argue the fact that they are One sided, but again.....not his/her money.
The reason women get 75% family assets is simple: Most of them keep the children and deal w/daily things where man visiting doesn't do much, any judge w/mother or sister understands that.

 

[butterfly 17]

My sister was asked to sign a prenup prior to getting married. It turned out that her dh''s family is worth hundreds of millions, literally and she had not the slightest idea. It was disclosed on the prenup though.

At first she was devastated. She has been with him for 7 years and knew his parents had money, but not that much money.

They gave her a rough draft and she picked out a famous divorce attorney to go over it and amend it to her benefit. The original said something like if her dh passed away and they were living in a house that was under his name only, she would have to move out no matter how many years of marriage they had.

It also said something like if he was not working but my sister was and they got divorced, he would be entitled to half of whatever she made during that time, but she would not be able to take anything from him. The thing is, he really doesn''t have to work as he has already come into a trust fund.

Luckily the lawyer was able to amend it more to her benefit and her inlaws apologized but explained that it was to protect their interests and that the lawyer had drawn up a standard prenup knowing that it would be amended. They even offered to pay for her lawyer. I don''t know if they did.

I remember for a while she was really pissed at her dh but the truth was he really had no idea what was written in the prenup as the parents had it drawn up, not him.

It really really stressed her out and she thought about just not marrying him. She felt that it implied that she was only marrying him for the money and it was taking away basic givens in a marriage if money was not an issue.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I live in Ohio, which is not a community property state, so even if you wasted the money on hiring an attorney to draft one, it wouldn''t be enforceable.

If I lived in a community property state, then I wouldn''t have a problem signing one if one or both parties had acquired wealth prior to the marriage and so long as the agreement was fair.

I also sort of compare it to an advanced directive. You prepare it hoping to never have to use it.

I''m generally not pro-divorce because I believe that marriage vows are f-o-r-e-v-e-r and I also do not think that divorce just happens - it is a decision that sometimes has to be made.

 

[zhuzhu]

She should not let her in-laws for pay for the legal fee. If she did, the lawyer now is her in-law''s service provider, not hers.

 

[Kelli]

Nope. He makes a lot more money than I do now but I spent my youth working my @$$ off to support him through school. Neither of us will inherit anything. I asked him once if he''d want me to sign one and he replied with a very sarcastic "yeah, that would be a REALLY nice way of thanking you for supporting me while I was a broke college student." Gotta love him.

 

[Haven]

No, I would not sign one.

The issue never came up in our relationship. DH entered this marriage with many more assets and much higher current earnings and earning potential, and his family definitely has more than mine.

The only case where I would consider signing one would be situations like El''s examples where they protected dependents outside of the marriage (e.g. children from a previous marriage) or a family business. Even then, though, the idea probably would not sit well with me.

In *my* eyes, the signing of a pre-nup contradicts my marriage vows. I do not believe in divorce.

(And yes, I know that statistically it is a common occurrence. I know things change. I am past the whole seeing the world through rose colored glasses stage--my parents are divorcing after 30 years of marriage, my grandparents divorced after 45 years of marriage. Still, I would not sign a pre-nup.)

 

[butterfly 17]

Zhuzhu, that's exctly what I told her.

Her dh is a wonderful laidback guy but sometimes has no clue as to what is going on. He didn't even ask his parents what is said. He was almost as shocked about it as she was.
You just would not know it by meeting
him that he is wealthy. He is a very nice guy and should consider himself lucky that my sister married him as she strives hard to be successful even when she really doesn't have to now. She works long hours and hates her job, but cant imagine living at home and doing nothing all day as she has no kids and he is working for his dad. They got married last sept and are moving to London at the end of the year. She is dreading that bc she knows it will be hard to find a job and she even told him maybe he should go ahead of her and she will stay behind and keep working.

I don't know all the details of the final prenup but I know my sister now feels that her interests are protected too.

I can't even imagine if I was with my dh for 50 years and then he suddenly passes away and I am told to move out of the house that we have been in for 40 years. That would be horrible.

 

[zhuzhu]

I just thought of it - remember Charlotte in Sex and City? When she divorced from Tray she ended up with their Manhattan condo, after just a few years of marriage (or just a few months on TV) ? That was a pretty good deal I thought!

 

[loriken214]

Not NO, but heck NO! Our vows said for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health....

I started out being the majority breadwinner in our marriage, but DH had the new house. I had the giant 401k and DH had a tiny one. I had the excellent benefits and DH had very little benefits.

Now, everything has changed. DH is the major breadwinner as I''m home on a disability retirement with half pay. He''s accepted me as my health has gone straight downhill for the past six years.

We love each other, as we are, and that is enough. We don''t need a piece of paper to tell us what to do with our estate, inheritances (we''ve already had two from his parents and will be settling my two parents'' estate in the next few months) and whatever we will face in the future.

Lori

 

[whitby_2773]

Date: 4/29/2009 10:34:36 PM
Author: Kelli
Nope. He makes a lot more money than I do now but I spent my youth working my @$$ off to support him through school. Neither of us will inherit anything. I asked him once if he''d want me to sign one and he replied with a very sarcastic ''yeah, that would be a REALLY nice way of thanking you for supporting me while I was a broke college student.'' Gotta love him.

kelli - he sounds like a good guy! nice pick

 

[Kelli]

Date: 4/30/2009 6:22:58 AM
Author: whitby_2773

Date: 4/29/2009 10:34:36 PM
Author: Kelli
Nope. He makes a lot more money than I do now but I spent my youth working my @$$ off to support him through school. Neither of us will inherit anything. I asked him once if he''d want me to sign one and he replied with a very sarcastic ''yeah, that would be a REALLY nice way of thanking you for supporting me while I was a broke college student.'' Gotta love him.

kelli - he sounds like a good guy! nice pick

Thanks Whitby!

I''m reading all of these strories and I can see how pre-nups would be appropriate for some people, but I have to say I''d be very hurt and offended if I were asked to sign one. It really would ruin the trust factor for me. Like the poor pregnant woman who was asked to sign one two years after the engagement.

 

[soocool]

To me a pre-nup signals "doubts" about the future of the relationshio. I feel that if you don''t think you''ll be in this for the long haul then go ahead and sign it. But if you value what marriage stands for and you truly love each other and are willing to do whatever it takes to make it last, then there should be no pre-nup.

I have many friends who have divorced or are divorcing after less than 15 - 20 years of marriage. They tell me in the end they have grown apart. When I ask them how could that have happened all they say to me that it just does. Funny I will be married 20 years and my sister longer than that. My husband and I still hold hands and kiss in public (much to my daughter''s embarassment.. she tells everyone with the amount of kissing going on she wonders how she ended up an only child!)

 

[Feralpenchant]

HAIL no.

 

[Dancing Fire]

if no prenups then....i wanna marry a rich woman then take her to the cleaners. any rich and available ladies here?

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Date: 4/29/2009 7:57:34 PM
Author: LaraOnline

Date: 4/29/2009 5:35:34 PM
Author: vespergirl
He sprung the prenup on her 2 years after their engagement, but a few months before their baby was due. She felt that she had no choice but to sign it & marry him at that point. I thought that was so crappy of him.

That''s an important issue, isn''t it? That pre-nups really disrupt trust... and often are produced at the very end point of a long dating relationship.

Also, I feel that perhaps a lot of single women who have not yet have children may not fully comprehend how their lives might change once they have had kids. It is so easy, as a young graduate, to feel you are going to ''take on the world''. And for many well-connected young women, this may be true. But, equally so, for many other women, this is not the case. They find that children disrupt their money-making opportunities in ways they hadn''t expected.

Aren''t there other legal ''systems '' that help prevent dodgy in-laws from accessing old family money and family businesses, such as trusts?

I think that''s the root of it, but here''s the rub. As DF said, when a woman signs a pre-nup that protects a man''s pre-marital interests, he trusts that she is not marrying him for his money. In him asking for a pre-nup that protects his pre-marital insterests, she inevitably wonders why he doesn''t trust her to not screw him over in a divorce. If a woman were to refuse to sign a pre-nup of that nature, he doesn''t trust that she won''t screw him over. . .

I think male greared radio shows like Tom Leykis have completely obliterated the male view on pre-nups anyway. In a divorce, a good attorney can blast right through a pre-nuptual agreement by arguing that it was signed under duress.

 

[loriken214]

Date: 4/30/2009 3:28:49 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
if no prenups then....i wanna marry a rich woman then take her to the cleaners. any rich and available ladies here?

DF, can we meet your wife???

Lori

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 4/30/2009 4:36:53 PM
Author: LaurenThePartier
In a divorce, a good attorney can blast right through a pre-nuptual agreement by arguing that it was signed under duress.

Well that''s interesting. I was thinking about Vesper''s poor friend last night (

the idiocy of chat forums), and wondering if there wasn''t an element of emotional blackmail when it comes to the signing of some pre-nupts...

but, how could it be proved? Wouldn''t it be a bit like a guy saying that the girl ''forced him'' to marry her, by crying a lot?!?

I mean, adults can be pretty mean to each other, but as an adult, you''re kind of expected to stand up for yourself, even if you have already invested a lot into a relationship...?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/1/2009 2:23:25 AM
Author: loriken214

Date: 4/30/2009 3:28:49 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
if no prenups then....i wanna marry a rich woman then take her to the cleaners. any rich and available ladies here?

DF, can we meet your wife???

Lori

how about my mistress?

 

[luv2sparkle]

Signing a prenup is like signing the divorce papers before you even get married. I am glad both of us had absolutely nothing and everything we have we
worked for together. If someone asked me to sign I would walk out. The only thing I can see is if someone marries for a second time late in life, to protect
assets meant for children, from going to a second spouse.

 

[daydreamer]

I would, with proper representation. I think prenuptial agreements are important for second marriages, especially where children are involved, and when a family has a lot of money or a business they want to protect.

I suspect my bf''s parents would want me to sign something if we marry. Bf''s brother''s ex-wife created huge problems for them during the divorce.

 

[omieluv]

For me to sign would depend on the content of the prenup and of course a review by my father, who happens to be a lawyer. My family has a large chunk of property that has been in the family for years that will come to me down the road, so I will have my BF sign a prenup regarding the property. The rest of it, I could care less about, as it would be divided 50/50 anyway because we would have earned it together (what is fair is fair).

 

[misskitty]

I''d absolutely take a look at one if it were offered to me, and if the conditions were favorable, I would have no problem signing. I don''t automatically have the mindset that prenup = lack of faith in marital success; it would have to be a suspicious set of terms that would give me reason to have doubts, not a prenup on its own.

 

[October2008bride]

Generally, I would not want to sign one. However, there are circumstances where I would understand it (i.e. if one person had children already) but it would have to be pretty important.

My dad tried to get my sister to sign one because we have a family cottage. She refused. Either way, my parents can structure their affairs however they want, and if they want to make sure the cottage is only left to their children, they can do that.

So I guess my answer is it depends? haha

Tricky question DF.