If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what to do

[mimi72]

Yesterday we spent the day at my 10 and 9 year old sons' baseball games - they had a double header and play on the same team. It was a long day and their team is, well, NOT GOOD, so it gets frustrating and long for everyone. Well, in trying to keep my 5 yr old busy and quiet, I was walking him around the back of the dugout. I see one of the kids on the team come in after getting out somehow. His father, who is in the dugout and helps out but isn't necessarily a coach per se, just lays into the kid, getting in his face telling him how he screwed up and how he should know better. I don't hear the kid, but I see him trying to shrug the dad away, then I see/hear the dad getting madder, saying "don't you talk back to me that way" and something about a "whoopin'". The boy is sitting on the bench, and the dad standing over him, leaning with his face an inch from him, with the meanest most evil, teeth clenched, veins popping out thing going on, spewing at the kid. I just stand there maybe 15 ft away and sort of stare, thinking if he sees someone is watching him he will stop. Finally I just walked away.

When the game is over and the kids are coming in off the field, again I guess the dad thinks his son did something wrong (believe me, bad playing was evenly spread out yesterday) and charges the field, sort of grabs the boy's arm roughly and again is looking just mean as hell and laying in at him - not yelling, but evil whispers. By that time I'm so disgusted, I'm sitting on a bleacher with my husband on my side and say, out loud (couldn't help myself) - "Goodness, that Dad...I do NOT like him." There is a row of ladies/moms sitting below me and I guess they can hear me, and my husband gave me a shushing look, which irritated me, so I say just loud enough "I don't care, this is abusive stuff I am seeing". And get up and walk away. Well later I see this dad still spewing off and popping veins, telling his kid to "hurry up, I've got to get to work", and a little girl and wife walking with him, who was one of the ladies sitting below me who probably heard what I said.

If he was willing to do all that right out in public, I shudder to think what goes on behind closed doors.

I actually mentioned the behavior to our head coach after everyone left, he said "yeah, he gets pretty heated up...he's also upset that his son just got rejected as a starter on the football team...I've talked to him about it before..."

Just to say, I am not overly sensitive...I don't mind coaches yelling in the course of coaching, because playing on a team means the kids have to learn to suck it up and take the good with the bad. What I saw went way beyond that - it was an intimate, threatening, testosterone-driven power play of man over boy. Who will probably turn out mean himself someday unless by some miracle he has the intellectual capacity to think his way out of the cycle.

I just feel bad for the boy. It's the kind of thing you see and it just says with you - maybe it's the feeling of helplessness that I feel as a witnessing adult who can't help this poor victim of a child. What would you do?

 

[madelise]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

Hopefully the mom heard you well and clear, and talks to her husband. But who knows, if he's such a dickwad to a child, he's probably just as abusive with the wife.

Verbal/emotional abuse comes first….. and then comes worse.

I would have probably done the same as you, and say something audible for others to hear. I wouldn't confront him, though. People with short tempers don't care who their tempers run out on--- he might even go at it with you! If this was at a public school setting, where you know the child attends, and you know there are teachers, you can raise the red flag for the school to alert the social worker. Beyond that, I really don't know what type of authorities can be notified


Poor family.

 

[KittyGolightly]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

Can you discuss this with the coach? I realize that coaches depend on parent volunteers for these leagues to be successful, but there should be ground rules for their behavior if they're going to be in the dug-out.

 

[mimi72]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

I agree with you madelise. Wife probably gets no better treatment.

No, not a school related activity...so nowhere really else to go with it.
And really, I probably wouldn't...I just needed to vent!!! Hence the loooooonnnng post!!!!

Thanks for reading!

 

[mimi72]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

KittyGolightly...I did d/w the coach, he sort of laughed it off/dismissed it as frustration...

But I asked my boys what they thought of X's Dad, and they said "he's mean!"

I will just keep a close eye on things.

 

[Enerchi]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

Is there a Child Protective Services agency in your area that you could just run this by? Sometimes there is nothing you can do and just have to wait for the worst before something can be done. I know here, in Ontario, we have the Children's Aid Society and you can call in with concerns. You can talk to an intake worker and detail the situation and they decide if it is worth investigating or not.

It is the kind of thing that just eats at you, I know. I have seen it on occasion as well - thru sports and thru my work. You just can't help but worry for that child. At least by taking some action (calling a child agency) you know whether it warrants anything more to be done.

Good luck Mimi.

 

[diamondringlover]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

I probably would have said something to the father...I can not and will not tolerate child abuse...and if you know them and their names child protection service is a good way to go....it brings back my memory I when I seen it happen, I was in Meijer and I was looking at shoes and I heard this women yelling at her child, they were in the dressing room and she got louder and louder and then I heard smacking noise and what sounded like someone holding there hand other the child's mouth so they wouldnt scream...I got up to the door and told the women she needed to stop or I will call the police, the door was locked...she said nothing to me and then I stood there till she came out and then I lit into her telling she was abusing her child..she was saying you dont understand she wondered away from me....and I said, yea you need to correct her, but do not need to abuse her...I was shaking I was so mad, I should have called the police but did not..I have wondered about that little child and the other baby that was around 1 sitting in the cart outside the dressing room....please help the little boy if you can...God knows what there home life is like....makes me tear up just thinking about it.

 

[kenny]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

The problem is definition of verbal abuse varies.

If you feel quite certain XYZ constitutes abuse report the parents but don't be surprised if CPS disagrees with you.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

I would lodge a complaint with the governing body of the baseball league in your area. I know you said there was no one higher than the coach, but there has to be someone who organizes the teams, games and fixtures? I'd be putting In a complaint about the fathers unsportsmanlike conduct on the field. Kids shouldn't have to see this kind of behavior from other parents, especially if this man plays a role in coaching these kids.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

I would lodge a complaint with the governing body of the baseball league in your area. I know you said there was no one higher than the coach, but there has to be someone who organizes the teams, games and fixtures? I'd be putting In a complaint about the fathers unsportsmanlike conduct on the field. Kids shouldn't have to see this kind of behavior from other parents, especially if this man plays a role in coaching these kids.

Yes, this is a great idea. If the coach didn't take you seriously I would complain to whoever runs the league and I would say exactly how he was behaving towards his own child. I would also say that your own children think he's mean and frightening.

 

[ruby59]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

The coach who is laughing it off is not doing his job. If a coach, like a teacher, suspects child abuse, it is their duty to report it. Sounds like it might be time for a new coach. And where is the umpire, or the people who are in charge of the league? When my son played CLCF sports, unruly parents were given a warning and then banned from the games.

You need to be careful when confronting a parent because it may cause them to take it out even worse on their child. I would report it to the police or CPS, so at least this family gets on their radar. If there are further complaints, it will get them to act on the child's behalf.

 

[Vera W]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

Hello Mimi72,
Thank you for being a good child advocate. My son played baseball from age 6 to 18, school and competitive and I can tell you there was always one of “those” fathers there be-raiding the poor kid, embarrassing his wife and the team. The Coaches NEVER did anything to curb it and you basically had to threaten the league to get anything out of them. Sometimes the Umpire might say something and has kicked fathers out of the park but those kinds of Umps are few and far between. I would suggest inviting a league member to a game and then hold a meeting with the offending father, the league member and the coach. Let them know you don’t enjoy it or think it is not proper for the kids to be exposed to. That way all three parties are involved and can’t pass it off or ignore you. You can even advise them that you will invite CPS out to observe a game, although they may or may not come. One of our teams invited a law officer to come and watch your games after one of the parents threatened to call the law. That father shut his mouth for the rest of the season. The kids don’t like it or deserve it. When my son turned 18 and had been playing on an adult league there was a 16 year old playing with them and his father was like that and always in the dugout yelling at the kid. My son had had enough and got into his face and told him don’t come back into the dugout. All the people cheered and that guy stayed out from then on. I am not in agreement with violence and actually Cameron didn’t have to raise a hand to the man but someone has got to stand up for the kids. Most of the time these guys are such wimps and only need a stand up guy to put them in their place. I agree that the Mother is not going to be much help either; as if she could she would stop it.
Do what your heart tells you to do so you can enjoy your kid’s games without having your ears and soul burn because of some jerk.
“Play ball”
Vera W.

 

[swingirl]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

I would lodge a complaint with the governing body of the baseball league in your area. I know you said there was no one higher than the coach, but there has to be someone who organizes the teams, games and fixtures? I'd be putting In a complaint about the fathers unsportsmanlike conduct on the field. Kids shouldn't have to see this kind of behavior from other parents, especially if this man plays a role in coaching these kids.

This! Because no matter how this man treats his family, the rest of team and parents should not have to endure his bad behavior. If this man is not a coach he shouldn't be in the dugout. His behavior is not sportsman like and he does not belong in any capacity where his is supposed to help, mentor, coach or act as a role model.

 

[LALove]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

Good job for doing something! Sad that no other parent did anything. I think a lot of times people are either shocked and don't know what to do or don't want to "rock the boat" and violate perceived social rules so do nothing or have that crappy "nothing to do with me" attitude which seems to be common in society today.

In this instance I would call your local child protective services. I seriously would. How can you know for sure if this jerk wad dad is just like this at the games? Sure, maybe he's just a big bully at his son's games and he's a fine dad otherwise. BUT, I HIGHLY doubt it. If he would act this way in front of other adults, what does he do behind closed doors? What CPS will do is investigate it. They'll talk to the dad, the mom, the son and anyone else and see if there is a situation or any real danger. Though, IMO, treating a child this way is dangerous- ie mentally harmful- to the child. It is verbal abuse- period. Makes me so sad.

About 4 years ago I was at the mall with DH. There was a man standing outside a store holding a very small boy- maybe 2 years old. The boy was crying and the dad was talking to him quietly. As I walked past, the dad set the boy on the ground and knelt to his level and continued to talk to him softly. The boy kept crying. Then the dad grabbed the boy's upper arms and lifted him about 5 inches from the ground and slammed the boy's head down on the hard tile floor. There was a loud crack sound and the boy went hysterical. The dad then picked him up and was shhhh-ing him. I thought I would puke! I was so upset my whole body was shaking. I looked around for security and didn't see anyone. I did notice a few other people were staring at the dad and kid- maybe 6-8 others probably saw this. Then each one slowly walked away to carry on with their shopping plans. I RAN to the security desk and reported what I saw. 2 security guards took off and I waited to see if I needed to give them my info. When 1 came back he told me they had it all on video from the mall security cameras and police were on their way. Hopefully that little boy is now in a safe environment. What I really recall about that incident is that no one else went to security to report this or did anything to help the little boy.

Now, that example is obviously worse than the bully dad and I think it's good you said something so others could hear. That alone can sometimes work to get someone to knock of jack-@$$ behavior. In this case, as the mom was witness to this and did nothing, I'd feel a responsibility to get it looked into further. Obviously your gut tells you this is a bad situation for the kid. I wouldn't minimize or try to rationalize away your feelings on it.

If you google "Child Protective Services" plus your state you will find all the info you need.

On my state's page it defines child abuse as:
"Child Abuse: Harm or threatened harm to a child's health or welfare that occurs through non-accidental physical or mental injury, sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, or maltreatment, by a parent, a legal guardian, or any other person responsible for the child's health or welfare or by a teacher, a teacher's aide, or a member of the clergy."

 

[lulu]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

I've confronted people on a couple of occasions. Having practised family law for so many years, I'm sensitive to the issue. It is impossible for the situation to resolve nicely and you have to be prepared for an argument or worse.

If you can get a name or license number you can make a complaint to Child Protective Services.

 

[mimi72]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

I thought about CPS, but all I know about the kid is his first name. This isn't our normal baseball team...after having a great summer with our usual Little League team (city champs for our age division!!) we decided to keep playing "Fall ball" in a different league. This is a more competitive league, and this new coach (a mom on our little league team put us in touch with him) cobbled together the team at the last minute, so we don't know any of the other parents or players. It's only a month of games - so only two more Sundays of double headers then we're done.

This is what I think I'll do. I'll watch this dirtbag closely this weekend. If I see anything remotely like what I saw last weekend, I will tell the coach a) I want him out of the dugout, as a scary and bad influence on the other boys, and b) he needs to talk to the dad about being over the line, as the coach and someone responsible for the welfare of the boys on his team. OR ELSE, I will be coming into the dugout to confront the dirtbag myself before the next game, and I'm guessing the coach will want to spare everyone that bit of indecency.

No doubt, it will me feel like I'm the over-sensitive, over-protective hover-mother who can't let her sensitive boys our of her protective sight. Or the touchy feely stick your nose in other people's business type. I am SO NEITHER of those things. I'm an introvert, prefer mostly just to quietly keep to myself, and let my boys make their own choices, mistakes, and get a few bruises along the way. Having had a tempermental, explosive, Jekyll and Hyde type dad growing up myself, I know an idiot when I see one. I thank goodness everyday my kids are growing up in a happy, sane, loving home.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

I do think it's a good idea to complain to league because THEY will know the father's name if you tell them the team name & kid's first name. Even if you're not going to be on that team next year, the kid will still be subjected to abusive treatment.

 

[HollyS]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

"If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what to do"


You mind your own business. At least 9 out of 10 times.

I was with a friend, 20 years ago, when she "had a talk" with her son in public. Someone threatened her with reporting her "abuse". In no way was she abusing her son; his choice to throw a tantrum was not evidence of her having harmed him in any way. The woman who got huffy hadn't seen or heard anything but his crying. She jumped to conclusions, and felt quite justified in her self-righteous anger. But that didn't make her right.

If you do not KNOW exactly what you are witnessing, say nothing. If you really do see abuse - - REAL abuse, not someone speaking in a manner you might not agree with, then speak to them. Reporting abuse is something you should carefully consider. Don't do it as a knee jerk reaction.

 

[smitcompton]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

Hi,

I agree with Holly on this. I am noticing this some people on this forum are a little too quick to call "abuse" on some things.
In this case I think you could've said directly to the father something on the order of ," Hey, its only a game, your son did did a good job. You want him to enjoy the game, don't you?" big smile. Start small.

I had a few young mothers in my neighborhood talk to me about if I were willing to say they were good mothers--just in case someone reported them. They became so afraid of this reporting abuse that they had to check to see if I would come to their defense. One spanked her children on occasion, the other yelled on occasion. They were excellent mothers in my opinion, but wished to disciple their children their way. They really were nervous.

When you don't know the whole story you should remain silent. I have seen real child abuse and had to deal with it. The mother was out of control and thank goodness knew it, so wanted some help.

But , this easy labeling has made the term abuse, less potent for me. Everything is abuse nowadays.

Annette

 

[LALove]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

"If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what to do"


You mind your own business. At least 9 out of 10 times.

I was with a friend, 20 years ago, when she "had a talk" with her son in public. Someone threatened her with reporting her "abuse". In no way was she abusing her son; his choice to throw a tantrum was not evidence of her having harmed him in any way. The woman who got huffy hadn't seen or heard anything but his crying. She jumped to conclusions, and felt quite justified in her self-righteous anger. But that didn't make her right.

If you do not KNOW exactly what you are witnessing, say nothing. If you really do see abuse - - REAL abuse, not someone speaking in a manner you might not agree with, then speak to them. Reporting abuse is something you should carefully consider. Don't do it as a knee jerk reaction.

Really that example with your friend is not the same type of situation. With your friend, the woman who threatened to report her did not witness anything- only heard the child cry. I probably witness at least one child cry every single day (at daycare- neighborhood kids- at stores- my own DS etc.). I do not automatically think, "OMG they must have been abused!" and run to report them. What the OP saw WAS verbal abuse. Period. Full damn stop. Are there worse types of abuse? I don't know. I was abused growing up - both sexually and verbally. And you know what? I think the verbal abuse- demeaning and belittling and just evil things said had a WORSE affect on me. I DO believe what the OP described is REAL abuse. If child advocates looked into the situation and found that the dad was only a prick at games then fine. Poor kid, sucks that he has a dad like that. But what if the abuse doesn't end on the field?

I just think- #1 go with your gut. #2 be willing to SEE what you're seeing- don't justify it away but on the same hand, don't make something a big deal when it is not.

To the OP- I think your plan is a good one. Watch the guy and go with your gut. And maybe talk to the mom- in a non-confrontational way? Like just say what you noticed and that you feel bad for the son and think it may hurt his self esteem.

 

[LALove]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

Hi,

I agree with Holly on this. I am noticing this some people on this forum are a little too quick to call "abuse" on some things.
In this case I think you could've said directly to the father something on the order of ," Hey, its only a game, your son did did a good job. You want him to enjoy the game, don't you?" big smile. Start small.

I had a few young mothers in my neighborhood talk to me about if I were willing to say they were good mothers--just in case someone reported them. They became so afraid of this reporting abuse that they had to check to see if I would come to their defense. One spanked her children on occasion, the other yelled on occasion. They were excellent mothers in my opinion, but wished to disciple their children their way. They really were nervous.

When you don't know the whole story you should remain silent. I have seen real child abuse and had to deal with it. The mother was out of control and thank goodness knew it, so wanted some help.

But , this easy labeling has made the term abuse, less potent for me. Everything is abuse nowadays.

Annette

So what qualifies as abuse then? In my mind what the father did was abusive to the son. If that's where it ends, does the dad deserve punishment or jail time? No. Does he need a parenting class? Yes. I don't disagree with your suggestion above- with starting out by calmly speaking to the dad. I think it's good that the OP did something.

I also don't think it's abuse for a mom/dad to spank her/his child on the bottom or get angry with a kid and raise their voice. Yelling that a kid better knock off bad behavior and what the OP described aren't the same IMO.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

Hi,

I agree with Holly on this. I am noticing this some people on this forum are a little too quick to call "abuse" on some things.
In this case I think you could've said directly to the father something on the order of ," Hey, its only a game, your son did did a good job. You want him to enjoy the game, don't you?" big smile. Start small.

I had a few young mothers in my neighborhood talk to me about if I were willing to say they were good mothers--just in case someone reported them. They became so afraid of this reporting abuse that they had to check to see if I would come to their defense. One spanked her children on occasion, the other yelled on occasion. They were excellent mothers in my opinion, but wished to disciple their children their way. They really were nervous.

When you don't know the whole story you should remain silent. I have seen real child abuse and had to deal with it. The mother was out of control and thank goodness knew it, so wanted some help.

But , this easy labeling has made the term abuse, less potent for me. Everything is abuse nowadays.

Annette

So what qualifies as abuse then? In my mind what the father did was abusive to the son. If that's where it ends, does the dad deserve punishment or jail time? No. Does he need a parenting class? Yes. I don't disagree with your suggestion above- with starting out by calmly speaking to the dad. I think it's good that the OP did something.

I also don't think it's abuse for a mom/dad to spank her/his child on the bottom or get angry with a kid and raise their voice. Yelling that a kid better knock off bad behavior and what the OP described aren't the same IMO.

CPS isn't going to rush in and take the kid away. If it looks like there is a problem, wouldn't they suggest a parenting class? Their goal isn't to take kids, it's to keep families together by making the home safe for the children.

FWIW, there are two families living across the street from each other in my neighborhood and the little kids (ages 3-4ish) keep running across the road to each others houses. I was talking to a different neighbor and apparently the kid ran in front of his car while he was passing by the houses, so I mentioned it to my DH. Well, my dh also said it happened to him. Then, one day, I saw the kids out there, slowed down to like 5 MPH and the kid then ran right in front of my car. The parents are NEVER outside watching their kids. That day, to my surprise, the dad was out there. He went up and grabbed his little boy (like age 3) and started yelling at him. I was so mad. I wanted to yell, "watch your kids." It is YOUR job! It pissed me off, but I left it alone. I noticed about a month ago, a parent has started sitting out when the little kids are out. I think finally someone said something and it worked because now the kids are being watched rather than running loose in front of all our cars.

 

[ksinger]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

Hi,

I agree with Holly on this. I am noticing this some people on this forum are a little too quick to call "abuse" on some things.
In this case I think you could've said directly to the father something on the order of ," Hey, its only a game, your son did did a good job. You want him to enjoy the game, don't you?" big smile. Start small.

I had a few young mothers in my neighborhood talk to me about if I were willing to say they were good mothers--just in case someone reported them. They became so afraid of this reporting abuse that they had to check to see if I would come to their defense. One spanked her children on occasion, the other yelled on occasion. They were excellent mothers in my opinion, but wished to disciple their children their way. They really were nervous.

When you don't know the whole story you should remain silent. I have seen real child abuse and had to deal with it. The mother was out of control and thank goodness knew it, so wanted some help.

But , this easy labeling has made the term abuse, less potent for me. Everything is abuse nowadays.

Annette

So what qualifies as abuse then? In my mind what the father did was abusive to the son. If that's where it ends, does the dad deserve punishment or jail time? No. Does he need a parenting class? Yes. I don't disagree with your suggestion above- with starting out by calmly speaking to the dad. I think it's good that the OP did something.

I also don't think it's abuse for a mom/dad to spank her/his child on the bottom or get angry with a kid and raise their voice. Yelling that a kid better knock off bad behavior and what the OP described aren't the same IMO.

What qualifies as abuse then? Well, for the record, states DO have LEGAL definitions of abuse and guidelines on how to spot it. It's not just what I think it is today, at least not in the eyes of the law.

In your opinion spanking and yelling aren't abuse. And yet some here think that very thing - that the things YOU give a pass on ARE abuse. Maybe you haven't read the threads here over the years that have exploded in controversy concerning spanking (aka - "hitting") of ANY kind. And even you are making distinctions about the degree of yelling, aren't you?

These mothers (mentioned above) are not wrong in fearing the busybody. My own mother, the least abusive person I can think of in my whole life, who loved children and to whom children flocked like birds to a feeder, grabbed me by the arm a few times - in public as I recall - glared at me and said with the utmost intensity (what was to become an inside joke between us as I got older), "I'm going to beat you black and blue!! You hear me young lady??!!" Naturally I did not ever believe a word of it, nor did she mean it, although I knew that phrase meant she was extremely displeased and I was in trouble. However, a stranger hearing that today? Yeesh. I shudder to think.

And I will suggest, that as deplorable as the perceived verbal abuse of this man may have been, to actually report him to authorities based on witnessing a single event - that was NOT life-threatening - when many state child protective services are literally drowning under the weight of SERIOUS child abuse cases, is kinda dicey to me. There are truly only so many of them to go around and I'm sure those social workers are just beaten to the ground already, without every little thing being reported. I'd also like to know what punitive inducements society can give to a parent who has not committed a crime, with a child who shows no outward signs of abuse, yet you think needs a parenting class. How do we get almost-abusive dad to go and who foots the bill? If we aren't using, or can't use the legal system to force it, how does that work?

As Holly said, 9 times out of 10, you either keep your mouth shut, or if that just isn't an option, then better to work obliquely through the coach, alert his school so they can watch for signs of abuse, or via someone else known to dad, because any parent here will know that when a stranger comes head-on at you to take you to task for some public aspect of your parenting style, most parents will spit defensive none-of-your-business sparks first, and consider (if ever) later.

For the record, MY state, shamefully, has one of the highest rates of serious child abuse in the country, so that's the place I come from in the statements about overburdened child protective services.

 

[LALove]

Re: If you see a parent verbally abusing their child, what t

Hi,

I agree with Holly on this. I am noticing this some people on this forum are a little too quick to call "abuse" on some things.
In this case I think you could've said directly to the father something on the order of ," Hey, its only a game, your son did did a good job. You want him to enjoy the game, don't you?" big smile. Start small.

I had a few young mothers in my neighborhood talk to me about if I were willing to say they were good mothers--just in case someone reported them. They became so afraid of this reporting abuse that they had to check to see if I would come to their defense. One spanked her children on occasion, the other yelled on occasion. They were excellent mothers in my opinion, but wished to disciple their children their way. They really were nervous.

When you don't know the whole story you should remain silent. I have seen real child abuse and had to deal with it. The mother was out of control and thank goodness knew it, so wanted some help.

But , this easy labeling has made the term abuse, less potent for me. Everything is abuse nowadays.

Annette

So what qualifies as abuse then? In my mind what the father did was abusive to the son. If that's where it ends, does the dad deserve punishment or jail time? No. Does he need a parenting class? Yes. I don't disagree with your suggestion above- with starting out by calmly speaking to the dad. I think it's good that the OP did something.

I also don't think it's abuse for a mom/dad to spank her/his child on the bottom or get angry with a kid and raise their voice. Yelling that a kid better knock off bad behavior and what the OP described aren't the same IMO.

What qualifies as abuse then? Well, for the record, states DO have LEGAL definitions of abuse and guidelines on how to spot it. It's not just what I think it is today, at least not in the eyes of the law.

In your opinion spanking and yelling aren't abuse. And yet some here think that very thing - that the things YOU give a pass on ARE abuse. Maybe you haven't read the threads here over the years that have exploded in controversy concerning spanking (aka - "hitting") of ANY kind. And even you are making distinctions about the degree of yelling, aren't you?

These mothers (mentioned above) are not wrong in fearing the busybody. My own mother, the least abusive person I can think of in my whole life, who loved children and to whom children flocked like birds to a feeder, grabbed me by the arm a few times - in public as I recall - glared at me and said with the utmost intensity (what was to become an inside joke between us as I got older), "I'm going to beat you black and blue!! You hear me young lady??!!" Naturally I did not ever believe a word of it, nor did she mean it, although I knew that phrase meant she was extremely displeased and I was in trouble. However, a stranger hearing that today? Yeesh. I shudder to think.

And I will suggest, that as deplorable as the perceived verbal abuse of this man may have been, to actually report him to authorities based on witnessing a single event - that was NOT life-threatening - when many state child protective services are literally drowning under the weight of SERIOUS child abuse cases, is kinda dicey to me. There are truly only so many of them to go around and I'm sure those social workers are just beaten to the ground already, without every little thing being reported. I'd also like to know what punitive inducements society can give to a parent who has not committed a crime, with a child who shows no outward signs of abuse, yet you think needs a parenting class. How do we get almost-abusive dad to go and who foots the bill? If we aren't using, or can't use the legal system to force it, how does that work?

As Holly said, 9 times out of 10, you either keep your mouth shut, or if that just isn't an option, then better to work obliquely through the coach, alert his school so they can watch for signs of abuse, or via someone else known to dad, because any parent here will know that when a stranger comes head-on at you to take you to task for some public aspect of your parenting style, most parents will spit defensive none-of-your-business sparks first, and consider (if ever) later.

For the record, MY state, shamefully, has one of the highest rates of serious child abuse in the country, so that's the place I come from in the statements about overburdened child protective services.

No I haven't read the threads on spanking. I can see how that is controversial today whereas when I grew up (and I'm only 35) it was how all the kids I knew were disciplined. I don't mean beaten black and blue etc. I mean a whack on the rear that stung. Anyways, this thread probably hit a spark with me because I've been on the receipt end -as a child- of an adult making me feel small and I know what that can do to a kid's self esteem, feeling of self worth etc. Also- I wasn't making any distinction on degree of yelling. Yelling is not the same as intentionally invalidating communication.

Re saying the dad needs a parenting class- I wasn't being literal. I'm just saying, IMO that's a crappy way to treat a kid and I'm sure not what any kid would want in a parent. There's not a whole lot to do - legal or otherwise - about a-holes. (Not talking about abusers but mean people.)

I'm also not jumping up and down saying the OP should call the police. I'm just saying that it should be looked into and the OP won't be able to keep an eye on the kid as there are only a couple of games left. I like the idea of alerting his school - not even in an alarming way- just a "hey this is what I witnessed. maybe it's nothing but thought you should know so you can keep an eye out". That would probably be more effective than reporting it to a potentially overworked CPS unit.

This thread reminds me of that ABC(?) show What Would You Do? where actors fake some immoral activity and film the reaction of passers-by. MOST of the people who witness whatever crime/immoral act walk away and do NOTHING. I feel like the attitude of "nothing to do with me" is more prevalent today than the busybody.

ETA: I'm amending my advice to the OP. I just re-read your first post. While I still think any adult acting in a bullying manor to a child is not OK, I see that the dad did not call the kids names- "you're a loser" etc. Also, re saying "whoopin" he may not have been literal. I have told my DS that I'd beat his little butt if he ran out in the road again but of course I am not being literal as I don't beat him and he knows that. If someone reported me for suspected abuse because of that, well fine. Whatever. It'd be proven that DS is in a safe and loving home. However, that would be a lot of unnecessary work for a social worker. I think if I were you I'd just watch the dad the next time. See if he acts like that again or worse. If so, tell the coach he has a duty to talk to the dad. If you think there may be a more serious situation then I'd write the school principal a letter.