I WANT my phosphates back!

[Miss Sparkly]

I am not thrilled about all of this "going green" especially when it means that I have to run my dishwasher twice just so that my dishes are clean! We have very hard water, a decent dishwasher and I rinse all that I can off the dishes and they still come out dirty. I'm ticked and it turns my stomach when DH gives me a glass of something to drink and I get down to the end only to realize that there's stuck on food on the bottom

HELP

What do you use for your dishwasher?

 

[lulu]

The eco stuff. And I'm surprised by this because my dishes are clean. I do rinse everything really well before loading it but I use the "normal wash" cycle and our dishwasher is middle of the road.

 

[movie zombie]

we have extremely hard, well water and a septic tank so we've always used "green" products. no problems using the trader joe's product and others we've gotten from health food stores.

mz

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

I use cascade. I'm not on the "green" bandwagon yet and may never get there. Personal choice.

 

[rockzilla]

Is the food inside the glass or just on the underside? Sounds like your dishwasher may be washing food OFF the plates but the water is washing them up onto the cups. Another possibility -- how frequently do you run the dishwasher? We try to only run it when its full, but sometimes that means every couple of days and the oldest stuff gets caked-on (making it more important to rinse thoroughly beforehand).

I have used both "standard" and "eco-friendly" dishwasher stuff and both seem to work just as well. My one pet peeve is that neither does a great job of cleaning my tea mugs...I always have to go in before/after with a sponge to get rid of the little "rings."

Having read about the nastiness phosphates inflicted on the lakes in Michigan, I guess some extra rinsing is a small price to pay.

 

[Mrs.W 514]

I use cascade. I'm not on the "green" bandwagon yet and may never get there. Personal choice.

a personal choice yes but an incredibly selfish one and I wouldn't call use such a silly term as the "green bandwagon" considering, the so called "green bandwagon" may actually ensure that we have a planet to leave to our children and theirs. If I have to scrape a little food off my dishes so I can give my children a world with clean water and soil still able to bare crops then that is a cross I will gladly bare

What is the future of the plant worth to you?

phosphates, really guys!! do you even know what you are suggesting?

 

[ksinger]

I use cascade. I'm not on the "green" bandwagon yet and may never get there. Personal choice.

a personal choice yes but an incredibly selfish one and I wouldn't call use such a silly term as the "green bandwagon" considering, the so called "green bandwagon" may actually ensure that we have a planet to leave to our children and theirs. If I have to scrape a little food off my dishes so I can give my children a world with clean water and soil still able to bare crops then that is a cross I will gladly bare

What is the future of the plant worth to you?

phosphates, really guys!! do you even know what you are suggesting?

Hm...that phrase...dang....what it it?? something about casting the first stone was it?

Bottom line, if you live in the US, you're impact on the planet is horrid simply from the fact that you're BREATHING, so accusing HH of being incredibly selfish is not only sanctimonious and counterproductive (browbeating/guilting people to your point of view being so effective and all) it's hypocritical. The irony here is just killing me, since you're posting your ire on a diamond/jewelry forum. Diamonds? Metals? The issues surround those two items are so fraught with green and moral issues the mind boggles. Gonna send that engagement ring back? Didn't think so. Planning on having kids one day? Not a terribly "green" thing to do. Gonna beat those cloth diapers on a rock? Doubt it. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere with good mass transit, great, if not, are you going to walk that 20 miles to work? Going to give up all your 3-month-obsolescent i-gadgets? No? The rabbit-hole of "green guilt" can go way too far. Are you sure you want to go there?

Every step, breath, bite, and MOVE you make impacts the planet in some way or another. You are making choices every day without considering the impact. There is plenty of guilt to go around, and using phosphate-free dishwasher detergent doesn't get YOU off the hook. Get in line.

 

[vc10um]

I use cascade. I'm not on the "green" bandwagon yet and may never get there. Personal choice.

a personal choice yes but an incredibly selfish one and I wouldn't call use such a silly term as the "green bandwagon" considering, the so called "green bandwagon" may actually ensure that we have a planet to leave to our children and theirs. If I have to scrape a little food off my dishes so I can give my children a world with clean water and soil still able to bare crops then that is a cross I will gladly bare

What is the future of the plant worth to you?

phosphates, really guys!! do you even know what you are suggesting?

Hm...that phrase...dang....what it it?? something about casting the first stone was it?

Bottom line, if you live in the US, you're impact on the planet is horrid simply from the fact that you're BREATHING, so accusing HH of being incredibly selfish is not only sanctimonious and counterproductive (browbeating/guilting people to your point of view being so effective and all) it's hypocritical. The irony here is just killing me, since you're posting your ire on a diamond/jewelry forum. Diamonds? Metals? The issues surround those two items are so fraught with green and moral issues the mind boggles. Gonna send that engagement ring back? Didn't think so. Planning on having kids one day? Not a terribly "green" thing to do. Gonna beat those cloth diapers on a rock? Doubt it. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere with good mass transit, great, if not, are you going to walk that 20 miles to work? Going to give up all your 3-month-obsolescent i-gadgets? No? The rabbit-hole of "green guilt" can go way too far. Are you sure you want to go there?

Every step, breath, bite, and MOVE you make impacts the planet in some way or another. You are making choices every day without considering the impact. There is plenty of guilt to go around, and using phosphate-free dishwasher detergent doesn't get YOU off the hook. Get in line.

Well said, ksinger.

 

[dragonfly411]

Personally I don't trust any dishwasher to wash my dishes completely. Take a little time to use a sponge or towel to hand wipe and rinse your dishes first guys. You don't even have to leave the water running, just get a little water in the bottom of the sink and use that. I mean really? Clean your plates before they go in the dishwasher and you won't have food in your cup.

Gross.

 

[davi_el_mejor]

Personally I don't trust any dishwasher to wash my dishes completely. Take a little time to use a sponge or towel to hand wipe and rinse your dishes first guys. You don't even have to leave the water running, just get a little water in the bottom of the sink and use that. I mean really? Clean your plates before they go in the dishwasher and you won't have food in your cup.

Gross.

Why not just wash them completely if you're going to take the time to do that?

 

[dragonfly411]

Personally I don't trust any dishwasher to wash my dishes completely. Take a little time to use a sponge or towel to hand wipe and rinse your dishes first guys. You don't even have to leave the water running, just get a little water in the bottom of the sink and use that. I mean really? Clean your plates before they go in the dishwasher and you won't have food in your cup.

Gross.

Why not just wash them completely if you're going to take the time to do that?

Well.... Agreed. It also takes less water to do them yourself than it does for a dishwasher to do them.

 

[Upgradable]

Ksinger, a big ole air kiss going out to you!! Thanks for waving my cranky old woman banner this morning. I read that and started to get all in a dander just to go on and read your reply (a much more pithy and direct version than I would have been able to muster up this early in the day).

A suggestion to the OP, run you garbage disposal clean and long just before starting your diswasher. Anything left in there can get washed back into you diswasher during its cycle. Maybe this will help? Best of luck.

ETA: I just read that the original post was from July! Now I have another basket of venom for Mrs. Williamson. Sheesh!

 

[dragonfly411]

Ksinger, a big ole air kiss going out to you!! Thanks for waving my cranky old woman banner this morning. I read that and started to get all in a dander just to go on and read your reply (a much more pithy and direct version than I would have been able to muster up this early in the day).

A suggestion to the OP, run you garbage disposal clean and long just before starting your diswasher. Anything left in there can get washed back into you diswasher during its cycle. Maybe this will help? Best of luck.

ETA: I just read that the original post was from July! Now I have another basket of venom for Mrs. Williamson. Sheesh!

That made me feel sick a little. I never knew that.

 

[iLander]

You haven't had phosphates for many years! They were removed from most products years and years ago.

The hard water is obviously clogging up your jets.

Take apart the arms and sprayers of your dishwasher and soak them in some lime scale remover.

Not rocket surgery . . .

Or your dishwasher is old and breaking. Get it checked.

 

[lulu]

Strangely, experts say the dishwasher may be better for the environment than hand washing.
http://environment.about.com/od/greenlivingdesign/a/dishwashers.htm

 

[dragonfly411]

Lulu - I'd like to see more details of the study. If someone hand washing uses only one side as a half full sink with soap, and the other they ONLY run water when rinsing dishes, and turn it off between dishes, then I would think that it would use less water than a dish washer. That's just me though.

 

[Mrs.W 514]

I use cascade. I'm not on the "green" bandwagon yet and may never get there. Personal choice.

a personal choice yes but an incredibly selfish one and I wouldn't call use such a silly term as the "green bandwagon" considering, the so called "green bandwagon" may actually ensure that we have a planet to leave to our children and theirs. If I have to scrape a little food off my dishes so I can give my children a world with clean water and soil still able to bare crops then that is a cross I will gladly bare

What is the future of the plant worth to you?

phosphates, really guys!! do you even know what you are suggesting?

Hm...that phrase...dang....what it it?? something about casting the first stone was it?

Bottom line, if you live in the US, you're impact on the planet is horrid simply from the fact that you're BREATHING, so accusing HH of being incredibly selfish is not only sanctimonious and counterproductive (browbeating/guilting people to your point of view being so effective and all) it's hypocritical. The irony here is just killing me, since you're posting your ire on a diamond/jewelry forum. Diamonds? Metals? The issues surround those two items are so fraught with green and moral issues the mind boggles. Gonna send that engagement ring back? Didn't think so. Planning on having kids one day? Not a terribly "green" thing to do. Gonna beat those cloth diapers on a rock? Doubt it. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere with good mass transit, great, if not, are you going to walk that 20 miles to work? Going to give up all your 3-month-obsolescent i-gadgets? No? The rabbit-hole of "green guilt" can go way too far. Are you sure you want to go there?

Every step, breath, bite, and MOVE you make impacts the planet in some way or another. You are making choices every day without considering the impact. There is plenty of guilt to go around, and using phosphate-free dishwasher detergent doesn't get YOU off the hook. Get in line.

I walk or bike to work and school, where I am getting a degree in sustainable food and bio-energy systems. I live in a tiny apartment in Montana and we only turn the heat high enough so the pipes don't freeze. I don't own a dishwasher, dryer, tv, curling iron, i pod, i phone ect. I use a clothes line to dry my clothing and I hand wash most of my clothes in a bucket outside....I use the rinse water to water the garden where I get most of my vegetables. Every soap/detergent I use is fully biodegradable. And yeah I have an engagement ring and few other pieces of jewelry and I like to look (all gifts btw) I do plan on having children, 2, one to replace me and one to replace FI and we will probably adopt a few.

Anyway I just wanted you to know that yeah I want to "go there"

 

[Miss Sparkly]

Actually I do have them. They're sitting in my cabinet right now I found them at Target and stocked up. My dishwasher is five months old and not a cheapo. What's selfish is to have more than one kid. I'm betting on overpopulation killing off the human race - or making it very small - not my phosphates.

 

[lyra]

And, uhm, well, when the post was made about Cascade, the company had already started producing it phospate free. (hehe)

 

[dragonfly411]

Future - Instead of guilting someone for their habit, why not use your education to educate others in the benefits of going green, vs. making them feel bad for what they do "wrong". I think you're going about this wrong honestly.

I'm all for going green, but it's something that people don't always fully understand, or find compatible with their lifestyle, and educating others on the benefits is the way to change minds, not scolding them.

I actually am always looking for ways to reduce our carbon footprint and am seriously praying for the day when they introduce trucks that get better mileage or are hybrids, because I require mine for my lifestyle (four horses, they need hay, feed, and bedding. I have to haul them to be able to compete, and haul them in case of emergencies). What do I do to be green?

Use manure as fertilizer for my vegetables and flowers.
Most of our flowers attract butterflies and hummingbirds, which allows for cross pollination for future plants.
Our feed bags are biodegradable and go into a compost bin, which is where our leftover vegetables and fruits go for more fertilizer.
We rarely use a heater. My grandfather cannot stand to be hot. I use extra blankets, and my grandmother has two dogs keeping her warm.
All lights are turned off when we aren't in the room. All other appliances are as well.
I use an Iphone. Guess what, I accomplish so much on it it ends up saving me having to buy a calendar, a notebook to keep track of calories, a notebook to keep track of workouts, books on yoga, maps, books (thanks to kindle apps), sudoku books, cds, note pads to keep notes on, paper for grocery lists, a calculator, an address book, a recipe book, a record keeper for my bank account, newspapers, dvd's (built in netflix), a dictionary, an encyclopedia, Spanish books etc. That's a lot of trees saved every day, month and year.
We use organic paper towels and organic toilet paper
We use all natural cleaning products

I think people are making an effort, and education is a great way to step up and offer ideas, vs. making someone feel guilty for using a certain detergent.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I don't bother with the dishwasher, my husband is the dishwasher! He's cheap, eco-friendly and does a great job!

 

[Lauren8211]

I use cascade. I'm not on the "green" bandwagon yet and may never get there. Personal choice.

a personal choice yes but an incredibly selfish one and I wouldn't call use such a silly term as the "green bandwagon" considering, the so called "green bandwagon" may actually ensure that we have a planet to leave to our children and theirs. If I have to scrape a little food off my dishes so I can give my children a world with clean water and soil still able to bare crops then that is a cross I will gladly bare

What is the future of the plant worth to you?

phosphates, really guys!! do you even know what you are suggesting?

Hm...that phrase...dang....what it it?? something about casting the first stone was it?

Bottom line, if you live in the US, you're impact on the planet is horrid simply from the fact that you're BREATHING, so accusing HH of being incredibly selfish is not only sanctimonious and counterproductive (browbeating/guilting people to your point of view being so effective and all) it's hypocritical. The irony here is just killing me, since you're posting your ire on a diamond/jewelry forum. Diamonds? Metals? The issues surround those two items are so fraught with green and moral issues the mind boggles. Gonna send that engagement ring back? Didn't think so. Planning on having kids one day? Not a terribly "green" thing to do. Gonna beat those cloth diapers on a rock? Doubt it. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere with good mass transit, great, if not, are you going to walk that 20 miles to work? Going to give up all your 3-month-obsolescent i-gadgets? No? The rabbit-hole of "green guilt" can go way too far. Are you sure you want to go there?

Every step, breath, bite, and MOVE you make impacts the planet in some way or another. You are making choices every day without considering the impact. There is plenty of guilt to go around, and using phosphate-free dishwasher detergent doesn't get YOU off the hook. Get in line.

I walk or bike to work and school, where I am getting a degree in sustainable food and bio-energy systems. I live in a tiny apartment in Montana and we only turn the heat high enough so the pipes don't freeze. I don't own a dishwasher, dryer, tv, curling iron, i pod, i phone ect. I use a clothes line to dry my clothing and I hand wash most of my clothes in a bucket outside....I use the rinse water to water the garden where I get most of my vegetables. Every soap/detergent I use is fully biodegradable. And yeah I have an engagement ring and few other pieces of jewelry and I like to look (all gifts btw) I do plan on having children, 2, one to replace me and one to replace FI and we will probably adopt a few.

Anyway I just wanted you to know that yeah I want to "go there"

Man, if we all lived just like you, the world would be perfect, wouldn't it?

How about you swap in those diamonds and send HH a lifetime supply of biodegradable dish detergent?

 

[Hera]

I just recently read an article that you don't have to prewash your dishes, because with modern dishwashers, it's unnecessary and can do harm to glassware.

 

[MonkeyPie]

I use cascade. I'm not on the "green" bandwagon yet and may never get there. Personal choice.

a personal choice yes but an incredibly selfish one and I wouldn't call use such a silly term as the "green bandwagon" considering, the so called "green bandwagon" may actually ensure that we have a planet to leave to our children and theirs. If I have to scrape a little food off my dishes so I can give my children a world with clean water and soil still able to bare crops then that is a cross I will gladly bare

What is the future of the plant worth to you?

phosphates, really guys!! do you even know what you are suggesting?

Hm...that phrase...dang....what it it?? something about casting the first stone was it?

Bottom line, if you live in the US, you're impact on the planet is horrid simply from the fact that you're BREATHING, so accusing HH of being incredibly selfish is not only sanctimonious and counterproductive (browbeating/guilting people to your point of view being so effective and all) it's hypocritical. The irony here is just killing me, since you're posting your ire on a diamond/jewelry forum. Diamonds? Metals? The issues surround those two items are so fraught with green and moral issues the mind boggles. Gonna send that engagement ring back? Didn't think so. Planning on having kids one day? Not a terribly "green" thing to do. Gonna beat those cloth diapers on a rock? Doubt it. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere with good mass transit, great, if not, are you going to walk that 20 miles to work? Going to give up all your 3-month-obsolescent i-gadgets? No? The rabbit-hole of "green guilt" can go way too far. Are you sure you want to go there?

Every step, breath, bite, and MOVE you make impacts the planet in some way or another. You are making choices every day without considering the impact. There is plenty of guilt to go around, and using phosphate-free dishwasher detergent doesn't get YOU off the hook. Get in line.

I walk or bike to work and school, where I am getting a degree in sustainable food and bio-energy systems. I live in a tiny apartment in Montana and we only turn the heat high enough so the pipes don't freeze. I don't own a dishwasher, dryer, tv, curling iron, i pod, i phone ect. I use a clothes line to dry my clothing and I hand wash most of my clothes in a bucket outside....I use the rinse water to water the garden where I get most of my vegetables. Every soap/detergent I use is fully biodegradable. And yeah I have an engagement ring and few other pieces of jewelry and I like to look (all gifts btw) I do plan on having children, 2, one to replace me and one to replace FI and we will probably adopt a few.

Anyway I just wanted you to know that yeah I want to "go there"

Lol, I like how you pick and choose when you want to be green and when not because it's inconvenient to you. Nice.

Personally? I hate dishwashers. I would rather wash them by hand since I waste so much time (and water oh noes!) having to pre-wash them. Makes no sense!

 

[ksinger]

I just recently read an article that you don't have to prewash your dishes, because with modern dishwashers, it's unnecessary and can do harm to glassware.

Don't tell that to my dog. He's a HUGE fan of "the puppy pre-wash".

 

[packrat]

A couple years ago I was flipping thru the channels and caught about 10 minutes of that Kimora Simmons show. She was concerned about the environment and wanted to know what her footprint was. She went to this place and they did..whatever it is they do to estimate it and they said the average person (not a celebrity, a regular person) has a footprint of like..7, (don't remember the exact number, but let's say 7-it was a low number) and her number was like..45. So...yeah. I could never shower again, eat leaves and bark, and live in a cave and still would never cancel out or even being to make up for the extravagances of some people, let alone one fancy pants celeb. Forgive me please my non green lifestyle of the tv and living room lamp being on while I'm in here on the computer.

 

[ksinger]

A couple years ago I was flipping thru the channels and caught about 10 minutes of that Kimora Simmons show. She was concerned about the environment and wanted to know what her footprint was. She went to this place and they did..whatever it is they do to estimate it and they said the average person (not a celebrity, a regular person) has a footprint of like..7, (don't remember the exact number, but let's say 7-it was a low number) and her number was like..45. So...yeah. I could never shower again, eat leaves and bark, and live in a cave and still would never cancel out or even being to make up for the extravagances of some people, let alone one fancy pants celeb. Forgive me please my non green lifestyle of the tv and living room lamp being on while I'm in here on the computer.

You are sentenced to 6 months of washing your clothes in a bucket in near-freezing weather. And another 6 of sweating profusely in 110 degree heat - without deodorant. Only then will your suffering be great enough to earn you any greenier-than-thou cred....

Seriously, about 13 years ago I lived in an apartment after I divorced. Besides having raucous sex in the kitchen in the wee hours (I swear it sounded like they were ON the stove amongst the pots and pans) the people upstairs would wash their clothes in the tub and then HANG them, DRIPPING, from the railing on the walkway above. The flapping and raining of soggy sheets and underoos on my head whenever I walked out, was pretty much the last straw that drove me to buy a house...

 

[VRBeauty]

I work in the environmental field of air pollution control and I often gripe about the low-emission window cleaners -- mandated by people I work with! -- that don't, uh, clean the windows! Several years ago when I bought my new car, a European import, I was thrilled when I found out that the wiper fluid reservoir was filled with a good, effective window cleaner that worked - and I use it, guilt-free, until it was gone.

Sometimes the the things we do that are good for the environment are compromises. There's no harm in being nostalgic for simpler times when we weren't asked to make those compromises, as long as we also recognize the consequences and hopefully decide to do the right thing when it comes time to act ... at least most of the time...

Sparkly posted her politically incorrect rant and it opened the door a healthy discussion and information that maybe educated some of us... about water quality concerns or even dishwasher maintenance. Personally, I don't think that either listing our environmental bona fides or lambasting others for not being "green" enough helps the discussion. I suspect that if we look hard enough, each of us can find things we do or own that don't represent the best possible environmental choice.

So Sparkly... I wouldn't use phosphate-laden soap for anything. But give me a bottle of contraband window cleaner... and I might be tempted! (Although I would of course use it only on low pollution days!)

As to my dish detergent choices - I wash my dishes by hand.

 

[ksinger]

I work in the environmental field of air pollution control and I often gripe about the low-emission window cleaners -- mandated by people I work with! -- that don't, uh, clean the windows! Several years ago when I bought my new car, a European import, I was thrilled when I found out that the wiper fluid reservoir was filled with a good, effective window cleaner that worked - and I use it, guilt-free, until it was gone.

Sometimes the the things we do that are good for the environment are compromises. There's no harm in being nostalgic for simpler times when we weren't asked to make those compromises, as long as we also recognize the consequences and hopefully decide to do the right thing when it comes time to act ... at least most of the time...

Sparkly posted her politically incorrect rant and it opened the door a healthy discussion and information that maybe educated some of us... about water quality concerns or even dishwasher maintenance. Personally, I don't think that either listing our environmental bona fides or lambasting others for not being "green" enough helps the discussion. I suspect that if we look hard enough, each of us can find things we do or own that don't represent the best possible environmental choice.

So Sparkly... I wouldn't use phosphate-laden soap for anything. But give me a bottle of contraband window cleaner... and I might be tempted! (Although I would of course use it only on low pollution days!)

As to my dish detergent choices - I wash my dishes by hand.

Well, that was certainly MY point earlier. It's part of why I steadfastly refused to list those things that I do - and yes there are a few. Number one, I don't have to justify myself to anyone on a forum, and two, "discussions" with ideologues who think that their choosing to freeze in the Montana winter gives them the right to blaze in and accuse others of being "incredibly selfish", are pretty pointless. When the discussion becomes one-upsmanship and cast in moral terms, it's pretty much over.

And yes, our obsession with clean runs right up against the fact that many of the "green" products simply do not work as well as their non-green counterparts.

And don't get me started on the fluorescent lights available (at least locally). What a freakin' thrash THOSE are. Low quality, long warm-up, and cadaverous light. I've tried hard in the past to find decent ones, but haven't been able to - or at least if I did, I didn't know if they were what I needed or not, and finally gave up. Other than the fact that I personally LOATHE the color of FL, my nearly 48-year-old eyes can't deal with paltry light anymore. I would be willing to pay a premium price, somewhere along the lines of $15 dollars a bulb - and luckily for me I COULD pay that, many could not - for a product that actually DID what I need it to do, but paying 3 times more( and that's just for the "cheap" bulbs at the hardware store) for a product that doesn't perform 1/2 as well as the non-green one, well, it's silly to expect people to do that. (In fact we just had an office dicussion of this the other day, with people complaining about the quality of the FL they had) Unless of course, the companies that produce "green" products want to come out and tell us honestly that they're going to have to charge a premium for a product that doesn't really work.

 

[Amethyste]

I use cascade. I'm not on the "green" bandwagon yet and may never get there. Personal choice.

a personal choice yes but an incredibly selfish one and I wouldn't call use such a silly term as the "green bandwagon" considering, the so called "green bandwagon" may actually ensure that we have a planet to leave to our children and theirs. If I have to scrape a little food off my dishes so I can give my children a world with clean water and soil still able to bare crops then that is a cross I will gladly bare

What is the future of the plant worth to you?

phosphates, really guys!! do you even know what you are suggesting?

Hm...that phrase...dang....what it it?? something about casting the first stone was it?

Bottom line, if you live in the US, you're impact on the planet is horrid simply from the fact that you're BREATHING, so accusing HH of being incredibly selfish is not only sanctimonious and counterproductive (browbeating/guilting people to your point of view being so effective and all) it's hypocritical. The irony here is just killing me, since you're posting your ire on a diamond/jewelry forum. Diamonds? Metals? The issues surround those two items are so fraught with green and moral issues the mind boggles. Gonna send that engagement ring back? Didn't think so. Planning on having kids one day? Not a terribly "green" thing to do. Gonna beat those cloth diapers on a rock? Doubt it. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere with good mass transit, great, if not, are you going to walk that 20 miles to work? Going to give up all your 3-month-obsolescent i-gadgets? No? The rabbit-hole of "green guilt" can go way too far. Are you sure you want to go there?

Every step, breath, bite, and MOVE you make impacts the planet in some way or another. You are making choices every day without considering the impact. There is plenty of guilt to go around, and using phosphate-free dishwasher detergent doesn't get YOU off the hook. Get in line.

I walk or bike to work and school, where I am getting a degree in sustainable food and bio-energy systems. I live in a tiny apartment in Montana and we only turn the heat high enough so the pipes don't freeze. I don't own a dishwasher, dryer, tv, curling iron, i pod, i phone ect. I use a clothes line to dry my clothing and I hand wash most of my clothes in a bucket outside....I use the rinse water to water the garden where I get most of my vegetables. Every soap/detergent I use is fully biodegradable. And yeah I have an engagement ring and few other pieces of jewelry and I like to look (all gifts btw) I do plan on having children, 2, one to replace me and one to replace FI and we will probably adopt a few.

Anyway I just wanted you to know that yeah I want to "go there"

Lol, I like how you pick and choose when you want to be green and when not because it's inconvenient to you. Nice.

Personally? I hate dishwashers. I would rather wash them by hand since I waste so much time (and water oh noes!) having to pre-wash them. Makes no sense!

It is all in how we formulate and read someone's reply. I already don't like the tone of these replies to each other. Moving on I guess...

ANYWAYS....... I don't want to mock people for what they express, and I see both sides of the story. I am sure that some are "greener" than others - but it takes a while to convert old habits into new ones... This year I decided to rely less on Oil/Gas. We switched to a Pellet Stove - We use Meyer's natural cleaners - I hang the laundry on several clothes racks places near the pellet stove to dry ( and it releases vapor into the dry air! Get to beat 2 birds with the same stone ), we wash on cold, we recycle... I drive a smal car that gets 48MPG... It took me to get my first home to make the switch ( or to align my thoughts on that path ) and I am 40!

Never too late I suppose!

PS: I have a dishwasher and I have not used it yet since my move in August. I doubt I will too - it's just my husband and I - why use the thing? I hate to see it there!