PumpkinPie
Ideal_Rock
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I just got the census form, and I don''t like it
- Thread starter kenny
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Hudson_Hawk
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 3/16/2010 8:05:13 PM
Author: WishfulThinking
Slightly off topic, but of course I have to add my 2 cents here--
Not to imply in any way that I believe census data will be mishandled or viewed individually rather than on the aggregate, but because the above is factually incorrect I felt it should be responded to. If someone were to get ahold of data implicating someone as being in a same-sex romantic relationship the repercussions could be pretty severe. Contrary to the above, it is not considered discrimination to discriminate based on sexual orientation. In 29 states being gay or lesbian is NOT protected against discrimination, and in 38 states those who are transgender do not have discrimination protections. If you are an LGBT serviceperson and you respond indicating that you are in a same-sex relationship you could feasibly lose your job under DADT [doubt this would happen because, again, no one is really considering the individual responses]. However, for the rest of us who don''t really care about privacy and are excited to be participating [geeks!] it''s interesting to note that the data for same-sex couples [including number of couples who consider themselves married--the census doesn''t mandate responding based on legal marital status, so these numbers will be highly inflated from the legal numbers] will be counted by the Williams Institute at UCLA. Kind of cool.
Of course no one cares a whit about the individual level information, but I thought I would just throw that out there so that no one is confused: if the information were to become available at the individual level I doubt that would make *anyone* especially happy.
WT-I stand corrected and apologize for being under the wrong impression of the situation. As usual you''ve provided clear and objective information and I appreciate you chiming in to educate me on the subject. Not to threadjack, but how are you guys doing these days?
y2kitty
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waterlilly
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miraclesrule
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I can see why some people find it potentially problematic. Is it really necessary to know that this is a single woman living alone in her home with a mortgage that she owes money on? My co-worker doesn't think it's okay. I admit, I don't trust people, so I don't think it's okay either. The rest of the stuff is okay, EXCEPT!!!!!!!!!........................
I have a HUGE problem with the continued categorization of race. It promotes racism and continues the idea that we are separate. I am a rebel and therefore on question 9, I checked "Other" and I entered the following for my race "Human".
I wonder what that will do to the computer?
I have a HUGE problem with the continued categorization of race. It promotes racism and continues the idea that we are separate. I am a rebel and therefore on question 9, I checked "Other" and I entered the following for my race "Human".
I wonder what that will do to the computer?
Imdanny
Ideal_Rock
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Date: 3/16/2010 8:12:34 AM
Author: ksinger
Yeah, I''m with Swimmer on this one. What''s the big deal? This information is floating around out there about you already. That and much much more. It''s just a convenient way to gather it for demographic compilation and apportionment of representatives. It is in YOUR best interest that they know this stuff. They already KNOW all this information about you. You CAN''T HIDE it, any of it. Water bills, phone records, credit card usage, ANYONE can tell how many people live at your residence, whether you own it, WHO owns it, what you buy, where you buy it, and how much of it. Why are you getting your knickers in a twist about it? Oh that''s right: the government is EEEEEEEEEEVIL, so they obviously are going to use it for nefarious purpose.Date: 3/16/2010 1:35:01 AM
Author:kenny
They want to know:
how many live at this address
if we rent or own
our telephone number
genders
age and full date of birth
race
to know if we have a second residence.
GRRRR!!!
I only want to tell them two people live at this address, nothing else.
We do nothing wrong so we should not feel we have anything to hide.
We should trust our government.
I can''t explain why but it just gives me the creeps answering all these personal question.
What do you think will happen if I only answer how many people live here?
Bottom line, it''s the law, and has been since before the government was EEEEEEVIL, back in those halcyon days of yore. Honestly folks, just do it and move on. There are much bigger government battles to fight out there than this.
I think you could have expressed yourself in a friendlier way and without all the sarcasm.
Kaleigh
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+1. Not loving the sarcasm myself, but that''s just me....Date: 3/16/2010 11:16:34 PM
Author: Imdanny
Date: 3/16/2010 8:12:34 AM
Author: ksinger
Yeah, I''m with Swimmer on this one. What''s the big deal? This information is floating around out there about you already. That and much much more. It''s just a convenient way to gather it for demographic compilation and apportionment of representatives. It is in YOUR best interest that they know this stuff. They already KNOW all this information about you. You CAN''T HIDE it, any of it. Water bills, phone records, credit card usage, ANYONE can tell how many people live at your residence, whether you own it, WHO owns it, what you buy, where you buy it, and how much of it. Why are you getting your knickers in a twist about it? Oh that''s right: the government is EEEEEEEEEEVIL, so they obviously are going to use it for nefarious purpose.Date: 3/16/2010 1:35:01 AM
Author:kenny
They want to know:
how many live at this address
if we rent or own
our telephone number
genders
age and full date of birth
race
to know if we have a second residence.
GRRRR!!!
I only want to tell them two people live at this address, nothing else.
We do nothing wrong so we should not feel we have anything to hide.
We should trust our government.
I can''t explain why but it just gives me the creeps answering all these personal question.
What do you think will happen if I only answer how many people live here?
Bottom line, it''s the law, and has been since before the government was EEEEEEVIL, back in those halcyon days of yore. Honestly folks, just do it and move on. There are much bigger government battles to fight out there than this.
I think you could have expressed yourself in a friendlier way and without all the sarcasm.
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Date: 3/16/2010 10:55:19 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I can see why some people find it potentially problematic. Is it really necessary to know that this is a single woman living alone in her home with a mortgage that she owes money on? My co-worker doesn''t think it''s okay. I admit, I don''t trust people, so I don''t think it''s okay either. The rest of the stuff is okay, EXCEPT!!!!!!!!!........................
I have a HUGE problem with the continued categorization of race. It promotes racism and continues the idea that we are separate. I am a rebel and therefore on question 9, I checked ''Other'' and I entered the following for my race ''Human''.
I wonder what that will do to the computer?
Wait, what? They know I''m a single woman living alone renting? Coolies. Then they''ll never know about my ferocious BULLDOGS. And since I left one question blank they''ll have to send one of those trollish census-takers and it will be ON. (<-----Sarcasm/silliness/possible snark.)
Ok, I get that there is genuine concern over some of the information we are asked to divulge. I also get that this thread was started by someone whose signature line deplores us to "keep asking questions." I don''t think it''s terribly wrong to use a little wit and humor in questioning WHY anyone feels so strongly that the government is being too intrusive or if anyone feels like it''s not a big deal. I think it''s a good discussion as long as we don''t get into specific politics. I''ve learned a lot from this thread already and hope it continues. Kenny, thanks for starting this.
WishfulThinking
Brilliant_Rock
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Hope I didn''t sound hostile, just doin'' my gay old thing. No harm, no foul. I sure don''t expect every straight person in the universe to keep track of the ridiculously convoluted laws regarding queer rights in the US. I can barely keep track of them and I research law and policy like it''s a hobby [or, actually, like it''s a part time job, which it technically is for me right nowDate: 3/16/2010 8:57:35 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Date: 3/16/2010 8:05:13 PM
Author: WishfulThinking
Slightly off topic, but of course I have to add my 2 cents here--
Not to imply in any way that I believe census data will be mishandled or viewed individually rather than on the aggregate, but because the above is factually incorrect I felt it should be responded to. If someone were to get ahold of data implicating someone as being in a same-sex romantic relationship the repercussions could be pretty severe. Contrary to the above, it is not considered discrimination to discriminate based on sexual orientation. In 29 states being gay or lesbian is NOT protected against discrimination, and in 38 states those who are transgender do not have discrimination protections. If you are an LGBT serviceperson and you respond indicating that you are in a same-sex relationship you could feasibly lose your job under DADT [doubt this would happen because, again, no one is really considering the individual responses]. However, for the rest of us who don''t really care about privacy and are excited to be participating [geeks!
Of course no one cares a whit about the individual level information, but I thought I would just throw that out there so that no one is confused: if the information were to become available at the individual level I doubt that would make *anyone* especially happy.
WT-I stand corrected and apologize for being under the wrong impression of the situation. As usual you''ve provided clear and objective information and I appreciate you chiming in to educate me on the subject. Not to threadjack, but how are you guys doing these days?
To threadjack the heck out of this thread, we''re doing alright, just hanging in here in CA until S finishes her PhD and then I''ll be off to complete the extensive second half of my own education so I can get a real job instead of this Americorps gig. I''m teaching phonics to 1st graders and to be honest, while it''s fun, it''s not exactly my end of the line career goal and I''m getting bored with it! It''s looking like law school is the future plan. Who could see that coming?
Oh, and back on topic, we got our census form in the mail TODAY!! I am so excited to fill it out, as nerdy as that sounds. That''s me, enthusiastically keeping a new generation of Sociology doctoral students in business since 2010. Plus, I''m planning to use the Williams Institute aggregates on same-sex marriages [legal and perceived] in my Masters thesis eventually, so it''s a self-interested position.
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Not that I have any more say because the post being called sarcastic was in response to me but honestly I don't mind sarcasm at all.
Rather I truly appreciate the honest feedback.
How else are we to learn?
I'd much rather everyone feels free to be themselves and speak their mind than be fake and polite all the time, while what they really think goes unsaid and festers beneath the surface.
Being frank makes for a more vibrant and authentic place.
I know of a forum where they try to legislate niceness {and they are allowed to discuss politics and religion}, and it is shocking and disgusting how vile and nasty they can be while pretending to be nice.
I think we should be ourselves, within PS rules of course.
Just my 2 cents.
Rather I truly appreciate the honest feedback.
How else are we to learn?
I'd much rather everyone feels free to be themselves and speak their mind than be fake and polite all the time, while what they really think goes unsaid and festers beneath the surface.
Being frank makes for a more vibrant and authentic place.
I know of a forum where they try to legislate niceness {and they are allowed to discuss politics and religion}, and it is shocking and disgusting how vile and nasty they can be while pretending to be nice.
I think we should be ourselves, within PS rules of course.
Just my 2 cents.
Kaleigh
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zhuzhu
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Date: 3/16/2010 10:55:19 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I can see why some people find it potentially problematic. Is it really necessary to know that this is a single woman living alone in her home with a mortgage that she owes money on? My co-worker doesn''t think it''s okay. I admit, I don''t trust people, so I don''t think it''s okay either. The rest of the stuff is okay, EXCEPT!!!!!!!!!........................
I have a HUGE problem with the continued categorization of race. It promotes racism and continues the idea that we are separate. I am a rebel and therefore on question 9, I checked ''Other'' and I entered the following for my race ''Human''.
I wonder what that will do to the computer?
Hi Miracle,
I rarely disagree with your views, but here I think categorization of race actually can be successfully utilized to PREVENT racism and inequalities. I agree that the categories are arbitrary and not 100% accurate. However unless the governing party knows what the differences in self-identified races are among different geographical regions, they don''t have the data to hypothesize possible factors contributing to inequality and unique regional problems in differing neighborhood/County/State. With the knowledge of racial distribution, they can some up with effective strategies to prevent issues by intervening on educational, public health, and many other levels.
Discrimination is sadly a human nature. Ignoring what obviously makes us different from one another is not the solution to prevent racism, colorism, or any other bad "isms". Our enemy is ignorance and not the truth. I fully believe that knowledge is power, and am happy to let the governing party have access to the "knowledge about its citizens" that may help them make the best governing decisions.
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Date: 3/16/2010 11:26:08 PM
Author: monarch64
Date: 3/16/2010 10:55:19 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I can see why some people find it potentially problematic. Is it really necessary to know that this is a single woman living alone in her home with a mortgage that she owes money on? My co-worker doesn''t think it''s okay. I admit, I don''t trust people, so I don''t think it''s okay either. The rest of the stuff is okay, EXCEPT!!!!!!!!!........................
I have a HUGE problem with the continued categorization of race. It promotes racism and continues the idea that we are separate. I am a rebel and therefore on question 9, I checked ''Other'' and I entered the following for my race ''Human''.
I wonder what that will do to the computer?
Wait, what? They know I''m a single woman living alone renting? Coolies. Then they''ll never know about my ferocious BULLDOGS. And since I left one question blank they''ll have to send one of those trollish census-takers and it will be ON. (<-----Sarcasm/silliness/possible snark.)
Ok, I get that there is genuine concern over some of the information we are asked to divulge. I also get that this thread was started by someone whose signature line deplores us to ''keep asking questions.'' I don''t think it''s terribly wrong to use a little wit and humor in questioning WHY anyone feels so strongly that the government is being too intrusive or if anyone feels like it''s not a big deal. I think it''s a good discussion as long as we don''t get into specific politics. I''ve learned a lot from this thread already and hope it continues. Kenny, thanks for starting this.
I can''t figure out how to highlight with Firefox. But I am so embarrassed. I meant to say "implores" NOT "deplores." Gah!
brilliance4me
Shiny_Rock
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miraclesrule
Ideal_Rock
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Wishful,
I totally get where you are coming from, but the census doesn't ask about sexual orientation. Can someone infer from two women living together that they may be in a same sex relationship? Sure they can. But I don't think the computer is as stupid as as some humans can be....thank God.
zhuzhu,
I understand where you are coming from, but at some point it becomes impossible to categorize. We determined that Tiger Woods would have to check at least 5 or 6 categories. Hell, Barack Obama would have to check nearly all of the categories. At what point will it stop mattering??? Hopefully, it is before all humans become so blended that we all get to check every box AND additionally add "Other"
monarch,
Ahahahahhaha, damn woman!! Now I am pissed that I didn't include my feline family.
I totally get where you are coming from, but the census doesn't ask about sexual orientation. Can someone infer from two women living together that they may be in a same sex relationship? Sure they can. But I don't think the computer is as stupid as as some humans can be....thank God.
zhuzhu,
I understand where you are coming from, but at some point it becomes impossible to categorize. We determined that Tiger Woods would have to check at least 5 or 6 categories. Hell, Barack Obama would have to check nearly all of the categories. At what point will it stop mattering??? Hopefully, it is before all humans become so blended that we all get to check every box AND additionally add "Other"
monarch,
Ahahahahhaha, damn woman!! Now I am pissed that I didn't include my feline family.
trillionaire
Ideal_Rock
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Date: 3/16/2010 11:26:35 PM
Author: WishfulThinking
To threadjack the heck out of this thread, we''re doing alright, just hanging in here in CA until S finishes her PhD and then I''ll be off to complete the extensive second half of my own education so I can get a real job instead of this Americorps gig. I''m teaching phonics to 1st graders and to be honest, while it''s fun, it''s not exactly my end of the line career goal and I''m getting bored with it! It''s looking like law school is the future plan. Who could see that coming?I hope you and your hubby are doing well, and if I''m keeping my PSers subforums straight, some HUGE congrats are in order for you two!!! Very exciting developments all around, sweetie.
Oh, and back on topic, we got our census form in the mail TODAY!! I am so excited to fill it out, as nerdy as that sounds. That''s me, enthusiastically keeping a new generation of Sociology doctoral students in business since 2010. Plus, I''m planning to use the Williams Institute aggregates on same-sex marriages [legal and perceived] in my Masters thesis eventually, so it''s a self-interested position.
Just thrilled to see you are still around Wishful, and still making the most thoughtful contributions to PS!!!
Cehrabehra
Super_Ideal_Rock
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all of those questions seem reasonable to me - some are designed for basic census info (like race) and some are to clarify that you aren''t being counted twice. And one is in case they need further clarification down the road.\
I''m okay with them. When I saw the heading I expected questions that were more intrusive and unnecessary. I don''t see these as intrusive. then again, I''m not being counted lol
I''m okay with them. When I saw the heading I expected questions that were more intrusive and unnecessary. I don''t see these as intrusive. then again, I''m not being counted lol
zoebartlett
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I''ve asked this question before myself. The answers are muddy and won''t give you a warm fuzzy.
http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10-ssn.htm#11
Lynnie
Brilliant_Rock
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I got mine yesterday. I don''t think it''s invasive at all. Age, sex, race, relation to other persons in the house (it''s just me & DH), phone number.
So are they different for different states?
I''m surprised it doesn''t ask your occupation/employment status, like the censuses (censi??) from decades ago. My mom got into researching her ancestry, and I thought it was cool to see what my great-great-great grandfolks did for a living.
So are they different for different states?
I''m surprised it doesn''t ask your occupation/employment status, like the censuses (censi??) from decades ago. My mom got into researching her ancestry, and I thought it was cool to see what my great-great-great grandfolks did for a living.
Clio
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ladypirate
Ideal_Rock
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It doesn''t ask about sexual orientation, but it does ask about your relationship to the other people in the house. If you put "unmarried partner" or "married", it would make it relatively obvious that you were in a same-sex union.
That aside, I was disappointed that it asked so little. We were all excited to fill it out and then it was so short!
Lauren8211
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VegasAngel
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sunnyd
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Dork.Date: 3/17/2010 10:11:17 AM
Author: elledizzy5
I''ve always had a thing for forms, though. When I was a kid I would make up elaborate forms and questionnaires for fun and then fill them out myself.
I filled ours out yesterday and wondered as I did it where all these "offensive" questions were! And Brilliance, thanks, you owe us all $54! I need some new shoes.
Tacori E-ring
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Wishful -- welcome back and thanks for the update. I was wondering how you were doing!Date: 3/16/2010 11:26:35 PM
Author: WishfulThinking
To threadjack the heck out of this thread, we''re doing alright, just hanging in here in CA until S finishes her PhD and then I''ll be off to complete the extensive second half of my own education so I can get a real job instead of this Americorps gig. I''m teaching phonics to 1st graders and to be honest, while it''s fun, it''s not exactly my end of the line career goal and I''m getting bored with it! It''s looking like law school is the future plan. Who could see that coming?
Back to topic -- I mailed my census form in today, all filled out as requested.
zoebartlett
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Kay
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I do not give my home phone number out to anyone except close friends and select family members. Everyone else, including on applications for credit, gets my office number. DH made the mistake of giving our unlisted home number to the CA DMV when he moved in with me, and now we get tons of phone calls from political candidates, pollsters, etc. I do not like to be bothered by calls at home.
I will list my age to provide the demographic information, but I am not sure if I want to list my exact date of birth. I''m not sure why it bothers me -- it is probably unreasonable, but I just feel like that is too much identifying information.
A few people have mentioned that the census asks less than a marketing survey. That is true, but I toss marketing surveys as I am not compelled by law to respond to them.
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Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings - 04/14
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