Home How would you handle this sticky family situation?

[fatafelice]

(Sorry in advance, this is long!)

Ok, so here''s the deal. Last year, we purchased my late MIL''s house from my husbands siblings (well, we owned a quarter, but we bought out their share). When his parents were alive, this house was pretty much the family beach house, and anyone would come visit and stay when they wanted. I was concerned that this was going to be a problem when we bought the house, but his siblings have actually been pretty respectful and no one has shown up unannounced or made plans to stay without asking, and even asking has been pretty rare. HOWEVER...

We have a rental unit in the back - a very small, one bedroom bungalow - and we haven''t rented it since we moved in for various reasons. A few months ago, SIL inquired as to whether or not we would be willing to let her family (husband and two small sons) rent it out for the summer. I was iffy on it and hopeful that we would be doing renovations this summer, so DH stalled and told them we weren''t sure. Now it is looking like we won''t be doing the renovations this summer. And this weekend we had a large barbeque and their family stayed in the bungalow. They mentioned again that they would be interested in using it for the summer, and I realized that I might be okay with it because I am pretty sure that they would respect our privacy and not expect us to enterain them or anything. I don''t think they would be able to pay fair market on the rent, but I''m okay with that since we don''t have it rented at the moment anyway. We also had a few other non-family members ask this weekend if it was available, but those people aren''t definite by any means. So that all seemed fine until tonight...

Tonight, BIL asked if he could rent the bungalow for his family (wife and daughter) for the summer. This is a problem for me because unlike SIL''s family, I can forsee them being a bit invasive. I am sure that they would feel free to come and go in the house and use the front porch, etc. In addition, BIL hasn''t been particularly nice to either DH or I recently. He makes a lot of "jokes" at our expense (read: thinly veiled insults). Often, he and his wife are fighting and uncomfortable to be around. Basically, I don''t want to spend every weekend of my summer with them. I feel awful saying that because they are family, but it is the truth. Anyway, when he asked, DH said that SIL had already asked, and that there were other people interested as well, so we weren''t sure what we were going to do.

Now, though, I don''t want to rent it to family at all. If we go ahead and say we are renting it to SIL, I can see a few possibilities: One, BIL will be upset because he offered to pay more than SIL and might make a big deal out of it; two, BIL will ask SIL to go in together; or three, BIL will ask SIL to use the place when they aren''t. Two and three are more likely, but none of those options are acceptable to me, so I am not sure what to do now. I told DH that I wanted to try and find a non-family member to rent the place, so we can avoid the family problem all together, but I still think they will be upset. And if we can''t find another renter - which is a possibility - we are going to have to rent it to one/both of them.

I know I have the right to just say no to both of them even if it means the place goes empty, but I feel like that makes me a witch and that there will be repercussions from the family. I also know that I could easily just say, "Fine, you guys can split it," and that would prevent the family drama, but I don''t want to spend my summer that way, and I don''t want to set any sort of precedent. SO, what would you do?

 

[cinnamon013]

Well if you decide you are renting it out and renting it out to family, you could rent it out to SIL because she asked first.

 

[iheartscience]

Wow that is sticky! Yikes! Hmmm...I definitely would NOT rent it to your BIL at all. You don''t want to spend your summer feeling awkward and uncomfortable. As for the SIL, I''m not sure...your BIL asking makes that very tricky. Are you or your husband close enough to your SIL to explain the situation? As in, could you tell her that you wouldn''t mind her staying there but you would mind BIL staying there, so she can stay there if she doesn''t mention the rent price to BIL or let him know when she''s not there?

If you don''t think that could work, I would just tell both the SIL and the BIL that you don''t really want to rent it after all, but if there is a particular weekend they want to come they can ask and you''ll let them know if it''s good for you.

And this may not be possible, but have you thought about losing the bungalow altogether? Or converting it into something else so it''s no longer rentable? (Game lounge, etc.?) Just an idea-it might be best to avoid the situation altogether that way!

 

[laine]

Could you let people (SIL, BIL and other interested friends/family) rent it just for a week or two each? You can tell them lots of people are interested in coming to the beach and you want to give everyone a chance. That way you give people a chance to come down but aren't committed to anyone for the whole summer (and can keep a few weeks to yourself).

 

[HollyS]

Yikes! Don''t you just hate ''family drama''? You have my sympathy.

If you feel you have to rent it to family, rent it to your SIL because she was the first to ask. Then, before next summer rolls around, get a permanent renter in there. That''ll guarantee no family across your backyard.

 

[fatafelice]

cinnamon013: Well, that was my first instinct, but I really think that BIL will ask her to split it with him, or ask if they can use it when SIL is not. Then I still wouldn''t have any control over when they showed up.

thing2of2: I know that SIL would understand completely, but I don''t want to put her in that position. If she is paying to rent the place, she wouldn''t have a good reason not to share it with her brother if she wasn''t using it, especially since he is our family as well. The weekend solution isn''t a bad idea, but the point is that they both want to come pretty much every weekend (that is how it used to be). And we don''t want to get rid of it as a rental, because after renovating it, we are going to live there while we rebuild the main house, and then rent it long-term for income.

laine: That isn''t a bad idea, but I am worried that BIL will get belligerent if we don''t rent it to him for every weekend that isn''t claimed by someone else. As far as he is concerned, it is his right as family. I''m not saying that is wrong - we should want to have family around and give them first dibs - but I feel like it is going to be a bad situation for me.

I am really hoping that we can find a renter that isn''t family, someone who wants to stay into the fall. Then we can justify not renting to family.

 

[fatafelice]

Hollys: Well, that is probably the best thing to do, but I still feel that BIL (and his wife) will be upset. He seems to have a sense of entitlement when it comes to these things.

ETA: Don't worry, we fully intend to get a permanent renter! If only the stock market hadn't gone to crap, we could have started the renovations already!

 

[laine]

Date: 5/25/2009 12:10:02 AM
Author: fatafelice
That isn't a bad idea, but I am worried that BIL will get belligerent if we don't rent it to him for every weekend that isn't claimed by someone else. As far as he is concerned, it is his right as family. I'm not saying that is wrong - we should want to have family around and give them first dibs - but I feel like it is going to be a bad situation for me.

Could you maybe go to SIL and BIL first and act like you're doing them a big favor by letting them have first pick on 2 or 3 weekends that they will rent it. Tell them you have lots of people who want to come down for a week and that you want to give them first dibs. That way you're being really accommodating, but setting limits. Imply that after they reserve weekends, you'll fill up the rest with other people. Will BIL really know if anyone is there?

ETA: Could you start renovations part way through the summer? Even if its just the demo part that makes it so no one can stay there.... BIL sounds like a real "gem" and I definitely get your desire to set limits now!

 

[fatafelice]

Laine: Hmmm...that really isn''t a bad idea. Is that dishonest, though, do you think? I don''t want to do anything that could bite me in the rear later.

 

[laine]

Date: 5/25/2009 12:22:39 AM
Author: fatafelice
Laine: Hmmm...that really isn't a bad idea. Is that dishonest, though, do you think? I don't want to do anything that could bite me in the rear later.

I would avoid any outright lies. If he asks if a certain weekend is available (beyond his set weekends) you can tell him you aren't sure, that X friend had expressed interest and you are waiting to hear from them (assuming that someone expressed at least vague interest as to make this not a lie). If he finds out after the fact that it was empty some weekend and is upset, tell him you just wanted a quiet weekend to yourself. Or (if its true) you could tell him someone's plans fell through or that you didn't realize he wanted to come (if he didn't mention it outright).

I would sort of "play innocent" and act as though you really don't get that he feels entitled to be there all the time.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I think that this is your property and you have the right to say who stays where and when...

If you don''t need the money brought in by renting out the house for long periods of time, rent it out weekend by weekend...which will leave you the ability to schedule who comes and goes. You won''t need to entertain anyone you don''t want...and some weekends you can simply leave the house vacant.

I can certainly understand not wanting to entertain/house your BIL if he''s being rude. I personally don''t think there is anything wrong with avoiding them at all costs until he becomes nicer.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Date: 5/25/2009 12:11:45 AM
Author: fatafelice
Hollys: Well, that is probably the best thing to do, but I still feel that BIL (and his wife) will be upset. He seems to have a sense of entitlement when it comes to these things.

ETA: Don''t worry, we fully intend to get a permanent renter! If only the stock market hadn''t gone to crap, we could have started the renovations already!

I think you BIL needs to be made to understand that he lost his entitlement to the holiday home when you bought his share out.... otherwise you are going to have to deal with this year in year out!

 

[swingirl]

Tell everyone you don't want it rented out all summer but you will rent it out in 1 (or 2) week increments with a 2 (or 3) week break in between. You are not a witch for wanting your privacy. Your home is no longer the family's summer beach house they way it used to be and the sooner you set the rules the better.

PS By the way where is this place and can I came? JK

 

[fatafelice]

Laine: I am pretty good at playing innocent with them.

Yesterday, they were over and his wife was going on and on about how it stinks that they have free movie passes for a year, but can''t ever go because they don''t have anyone to babysit, and I just smiled and nodded like I was oblivious to her hints. They bring this up every time we see them, but never actually ASK us to babysit. If they did, I would concede to drive up there, but I am not going to offer to spend my Saturday watching their child for free if it involves 3 hours of driving. The only other time they asked us, we went, but they were peeved that we said we couldn''t get there before 6:30 PM on a Friday night (DH doesn''t get out of work until 5, and there is usually a lot of traffic going up there at that time). As it was, we got there at 6:45, but they didn''t leave until 7:15 anyway. And did I mention that the baby hadn''t had a nap or been fed? And that they left neither food nor some cash for us to order dinner for ourselves, despite the fact that we didn''t have time to eat before getting there and they would be gone until after 10:00?

So, yeah, I am not going to go out of my way to babysit again unless they ask directly.

Italia: That would probably be the best plan, but I am worried he will push the issue along the lines of, "I just don''t understand why you won''t rent it to us for all the available weekends! We''re family!" (He plays the family card whenever it is expedient for him to do so) I wish I could just be honest and say, "This is what I am comfortable with, I hope you will understand," but I really don''t think it would go over well.

hawaiianorangetree and swingirl: Well, I think they intellectually know that they no longer have a claim, but they still want to be able to carry on as they used to. I''m sure that is why he offered to *pay* to stay there. In his mind, I am sure he thinks he has found the perfect solution: They don''t have to wait for an invitation or stay in the main house, and we get the money - Hey, they are actually doing us a favor!

They don''t realize that the difference is that strangers wouldn''t feel like they can use our grill, front porch, bathroom, beer, etc., or expect us to spend our whole weekend with them. You are right that we need to teach this lesson now, but I can''t figure out the best way to do it without causing a ton of family drama.

ETA: LOL, Swingirl! You can come as long as I can borrow your ring for an indefinite length of time!

 

[Liane]

I don''t have any advice to offer -- the other posters in this thread have made very sensible and diplomatic suggestions -- but just wanted to say OMG to that babysitting story.

Wow, talk about abusing other people''s good nature. I can''t believe you''re nice enough to even remotely consider saying "yes" if they did outright ask you to babysit again.

 

[cara]

This IS a sticky situation.

If you rent it out for the whole summer to either of them, you will have lost your right to object to BIL coming whenever he wants, presuming he arranges his schedule with SIL.

I agree with Italia- only rent for a limited period of time to each of them. However much you think you can tolerate BIL, basically, since if you rent more to the other family he might make a stink about the inequity. Or rent to neither of them (money might complicate things) and just invite them for limited periods of time so that they are houseguests, and then you can feel better about setting boundaries on your hospitality rather than limiting your willingness to allow them to rent from you.

As an excuse, how about needing access to do research for renovation plans (and possible small jobs) and a desire to be able invite friends and other family to stay in the unit when you want. Basically saying you want to use it as a guest house, and they are welcome to be your guest X weeks or weekends during the summer.

And, of course, research other housing options nearby for them to rent in the future, assuming your plan to have a permanent renter in the inlaw unit by next summer. You will probably lose money with this solution (since you woln't be generating rent for the summer) but might save you oodles of difficulty with the fam. Family beach house politics are not to be underestimated!

 

[Kaleigh]

When we bought our house in Nantucket, we made a decision not to rent it to family. I have seen the fights break out over Hubby''s Mom''s house, which we used to rent. I said, I just don''t want to deal with that with this house.

Maybe as other''s said break it up into smaller incrememnts, or just say, no family. It''s too hard to make it fair, etc...

Sorry you are going through this, I really don''t like family drama.... And I certainly don''t want to deal with it on vacay.

 

[D&T]

Date: 5/25/2009 4:34:59 PM
Author: Kaleigh
When we bought our house in Nantucket, we made a decision not to rent it to family. I have seen the fights break out over Hubby''s Mom''s house, which we used to rent. I said, I just don''t want to deal with that with this house.

Maybe as other''s said break it up into smaller incrememnts, or just say, no family. It''s too hard to make it fair, etc...

Sorry you are going through this, I really don''t like family drama.... And I certainly don''t want to deal with it on vacay.

I really agree with Kaleigh on this, split it up in small increments, and if they can''t do it, then oh well too bad. doing business with friends is bad enough, but with family is a nightmare...sorry for the situation. good luck

 

[phoenixgirl]

How does your husband feel about them renting it? Since they're his siblings, I would try to be accommodating if he would really like them to come.

I don't think you're going to be able to keep BIL from ever coming/renting the bungalow, especially if you are going to let SIL do so. The solution is for you to explain your expectations . . . we bought the big house as a vacation house for us, not to subsidize everyone else using it as always . . . You might have to basically say that anyone who rents the bungalow should not expect to hang out together/use the big house without calling first.

I think that if you try to keep them from ever coming, you will not like BIL's reaction. I can see his point . . . this was his parents' house too, and he is offering to pay to rent it, and why wouldn't he want to see his brother and have the cousins play together once in a while? It will seem suspicious if you always happen to have rented it to strangers every week, summer after summer . . . I think you're going to have to let them come or else risk estrangement over it. But you should most definitely make it clear about calling before using the stuff with the big house . . . and change the locks! And I'd rent it only for fair market price . . . that sets the tone that this is your property and is not still the family place with somebody else's name on the deed.

BTW, what's up with BIL and wife being unable to get their own local babysitter? My brother was like that too . . . he lives 1.5 hours away (at least), but they never leave their kids with non-family members, unlike my sister who uses Craigslist and the local teenagers all the time. He asked me to drive up there to babysit once, and I was like, you know, if this were an emergency I would . . . Seriously people, find some babysitters! And if I were going to have a family member babysit, I would at least give them a bottle of wine or a pizza or something!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

FF, I think there comes a point where you have to set up your own personal boundries...and this is something I''ve recently learned to apply in my own personal life. So far, so good.

This is your home now...it''s where you live...it''s not a vacation rental, or an income property. Anything you do or don''t do needs no explaination, it''s simply the way it is because it works for you. If your BIL doesn''t like it, then I guess he should have held on to his share...but alas, he didn''t...so, he''s out of luck.

If it were my BIL, I''d drill into my DH''s head that this is our home and our decision...and I''d have him relay that message to his brother (I''m fairly nonconfrontational). I''d come up with a list of reasons why this is whats best you as a family...be it the invasion of personal space, the recent snarky behavior...these are things no one can argue with. If you have the facts on your side, then it just is what it is. Maybe, in a gesture of brotherly love, I''d let him come for a couple of weekends over the entire course of the summer...but you''re not running a hotel, so someone "checking in" every weekend doesn''t jive with your life style--period.

 

[fatafelice]

Liane: Yeah, it didn''t really make me want to babysit again. The problem is that we have babysat several times for SIL (who lives only 30 min. away and does, in fact, feed us!), so they seem to think we are being unfair.

Cara: You make for some good points. As for researching other options for them...they might not be able to afford it. The rate they want to pay for the summer months is the rate we would get on a yearly rental. A summer situation comparable to this would likely go for a bit more. Of course, he was complaining last night that they don''t have enough money, so I don''t know where the extra for the rent would come from.

Kaleigh: I know, and I was afraid of something like this happening, so at first I didn''t even want to buy the house. The thing is, it isn''t a vacation house for us. We live here year-round. And I was actually worried about visits to the main house being the issue; it never occured to me that the bungalow would be a problem. I can''t wait until we can get a yearly renter in there and this problem will be solved! And I wish that we should just put our foot down and say no family, period. I hate to do that to SIL, because her boys love going to the beach and they can''t afford to stay somewhere else, but otherwise I think this is all going to be a mess.

D&T: I agree that business with family is a bad idea. We are going to have a similar (and potentially much worse) problem when it is time to rebuild the main house, since BIL happens to be an architect and expects that we will use him for the new plans. I don''t want to use him just because I want to avoid the drama, but not using him will create drama in and of itself!

pheonixgirl: DH would like SIL to be able to come, but feels as I do about BIL. They are actually a (historically) close family, but the past few years, BIL has become progressively more intolerable to be around. I agree, however, that if I try to prevent them from ever coming, there are going to be problems, so that is why I am trying to figure out the alternative. Also, in case it wasn''t clear before, this isn''t our vacation home; it is our only home. I am a teacher and when I have off in the summer, I try to accomplish everything that doesn''t get done during the school year. It isn''t really vacation time for me (other than mentally), and I don''t want to spend it with houseguests.

As for the babysitting, I just would have appreciated some luncheon meat and bread or a twenty and a couple of take-out menus! Some aknowledgement that we were doing them a favor, anyway, and needed to eat dinner. Luckily, our nap-less neice ate a little and then proceeded to sleep for the next five hours that we were there. I am sure she kept them up the rest of the night.

Italia: Thank you. You are 100% correct. I was thinking about this situation as I responded to your thread about your neighbor. I wish I could be as honest and clear with my in-laws as you were with her! I just don''t want to start WWIII.

And DH is actually pretty good about this stuff, but he does love his family and wants to keep the peace. We are going to have to have a long talk about this, make our decision, and stick to it.

 

[fatafelice]

Okay, I am resurrecting this thread because you all had such good advice before and I need a bit more...

Long story, short, DH actually decided that it wasn't worth any sort of drama later and we needed to set a precedent now, so he told his siblings that we would not be renting to ANY family member. SIL was understanding and we didn't get a response from BIL at all, so I guess that is telling. That, and the fact that they came down the next weekend to visit our Aunt and didn't even call us to say they would be in town. They are certainly allowed to be peeved, so whatever, I didn't really care.

Fast forward to today. I just got a call from BIL's wife asking for the phone number of a close family friend who lives in our town. In the course of the conversation, she mentioned that she was going to ask this friend if they could stay with her tomorrow night so they could come down to the shore for the holiday (no idea if they are planning to ask about staying more that one night). I happily gave her the number, but it was a very awkward conversation, because I felt like I should offer to let them stay here. I don't WANT them to stay here, because DH and I have barely had time to spend together lately, I don't want to deal with their unpleasantness, and I don't want to lock my dogs in a crate all weekend, but I feel like we should offer because they are family.

I called DH and he said no, if they wanted to stay here, they should stop being passive agressive and just ask. If they DO ask, he said we should say they can stay in the bungalow. I think is this a little too rude, as there is no furniture in there, and they have a one-year-old. I say if they ask, we have to let them stay in the house, even if we don't want to. DH feels strongly that we need to stick to our guns, but I feel a tremendous amout of guilt. I mean, who flat-out refuses to let family visit them for no good reason? It would only be more awkward to say, "Um, we don't want you guys around because BIL is rude and you two fight all the time and make everyone uncomfortable."

So again, what would you ladies do in this new situation? Do I call an offer to let them stay without them asking? Do we wait and offer them the bunglaow or a room if they ask? Or do we stick to our 'no family' guns and refuse even if they ask? (If you say the latter, suggestions for graceful responses would be appreciated!)

ETA: Don't be afraid to tell me if you think we are being jerks - just be polite about it, please!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Honestly? I think you made a decision, and you need to stick with it. If they want a shore vacation and they can afford it--then you''re not stopping them...but this is your home.

I can totally understand why you would want to extend an offer--and that''s very nice. But even offering one time opens the door to the same situation you were in before. So, if you''re prepared for that...then bring it on. But personally, you''d just gotten out of it...why jump back in???

I say, in order to keep the peace, invite them over for the 4th. Its far less an imposition than having a house full for the weekend. Keep it fun, breezy...focus on quality family time...and move past the rental issue.

 

[cara]

This is your husband''s family and if he things there will be problems setting a lax precedent, you should trust him on it. Go with the strict standard. This is your home, and if you don''t want a steady stream of visitors living with you, especially unpleasant visitors that make you lock up your dogs, you will have to "force" people to rent other accommodations.

If your husband thinks its a good idea, you should call them up and warmly invite them over for a bbq or dinner during their visit to your town. Also if you get cracking on the bungalow furniture, you could invite them over for a weekend later in the summer... (it is kind of cruel to invite them to stay in an unfurnished building.) Both to show no hard feelings but also to set the precedent that you will be inviting them to visit on your schedule and not allowing them to dictate when they impose. But only if your husband things that this would not invite more trouble.

 

[fatafelice]

Italia, thank you, that is how DH feels.

I am sure if they had planned ahead, they could have found a hotel, but they likely waited until just now, and everywhere is booked.

Any suggestions on how we can refuse without being incredibly rude?

 

[movie zombie]

i wouldn''t rent it out to anyone at all. you bought the PROPERTY for your use and enjoyment. you may decide to have guests that you might want to have stay in the guest house. you might want to use the guest house for a special project. once you open the door to using it as a rental, you won''t be able close it. i see nothing but trouble down the road in this situation. better to be a witch now than later........

mz

 

[fatafelice]

Cara, I like the idea of inviting them on *our* terms. They always seem to put us in this position when they want to come down, regardless of our feelings. And for reference, we did invite them to stay here (before they asked or hinted) when we were having a Halloween party last year, as it would have been late for them to drive back. And last time they asked to stay (when we had a BBQ), we agreed, but then they decided to stay at an inn. The bungalow won''t ever be furnished by us, but I could handle inviting them to stay at the house if it was planned in advance and on my terms.

 

[fatafelice]

MZ, that is the route we took on the rental, but now they are hinting around at staying over in the house.

 

[atroop711]

you need to stick to your guns and not feel guilty. You haven''t done anything wrong.

 

[tyty333]

How long are they wanting to stay in "your" house. Are we talking 9 days (weekend, week, weekend), 7days or
an extended 3 day weekend? My DH and I kind of feel like anything over 3 days is too long (we''re pretty tough).
Of course there are exceptions for people who come from a long distance away and dont come very often.

I say 3 day (or 2) day weekend if you can tolerate it...and I know that is a BIG if!

I feel for your position and sometimes I think its just easier upfront to put your foot down and say No or you
could be put in this position for every weekend/week over the summer (in other words dealing with this
headach a lot!)