How to support 8yo kids of dying friend

[gemmynonimous]

Hi Guys!

I'm a long-term PSer, though I haven't been active since going to trade. I've created this second profile to ask a specific question, because I don't want this particular personal info (esp because it's about my friend, not me) to be associated with my regular account.

Here's my sad, difficult question: how to emotionally support two 8yo children whose parent is dying of cancer.

Backstory: a close friend was diagnosed with stage IV cancer less than a year ago. There have been ups and downs and some hope (though not much), but recently she has been losing strength and things aren't looking good. She doesn't have a huge support group here in the US, she moved here just before the pandemic started so she just has her husband and a couple friends (and, thank god, her mom is able to be with her as well to provide care and help with kids at home). Her kids are not yet totally fluent in English because of Covid and online learning, it set back their integration into the community. So these two kids... My friend hasn't discussed the possibility of death with them, and I completely understand that -- she wanted them to have as much normal life as possible. I think they do understand what's going on now, as their mom is very weak, on meds, etc.

So far, my main method of helping has been to take them out to playdates with my kids, playgrounds, eating out within reason, coming over to our house. We've been acting like everything is more or less normal. However, I wonder if I can or should keep going like this. I can't fully discuss anything with them without their mom doing it first, I think. But I imagine the children need some kind of help and support... and I'm at a loss for what to do. I'm afraid to go too far, and a the same time afraid that my fear of going too far will keep me from doing something necessary and important.

I plan to continue to take them on playdates and all kinds of activities as much as possible. Several times a week I think. The more I write this out the more it seems like the only real thing I can do.

If anyone has any experience with this (and I'm sorry if you do!), and has suggestions, I'd be so grateful to hear them. What I should and what I shouldn't do, both.

 

[Austina]

I’m so sorry your friend is going through this, I can’t think of anything worse than the possibility of leaving young children behind.

I have zero experience of this, but I think if it were me, I’d want to prepare my children for the time I was no longer around. I think it would be an even greater shock to them to be there one day and gone the next. I don’t know how you’d go about this, but perhaps whilst their mother is still well enough, she could start by talking to them and telling them she’s not well and that there isn’t any medicine that can make her better. Maybe even make videos of her talking to the children and telling them how much she loves them, and didn’t want to leave them, but had no choice. I also think it would probably be good to prepare them for who’ll be taking care of them when she‘s gone.

As I said, I have no experience dealing with this, but I think this is what I’d do if I was in this terrible situation. You’re being such a good friend, and I’m sure she really appreciates all the help you’re being at this awful time.

 

[Rfisher]

I am so sorry for the kids, your friend, and of course you.
How incredibly fortunate they are to have you in their lives.

I don’t have the same exact experience, but my only suggestion, other than continuing what you are doing for as long as you possibly can, and as long as it’s welcome, is keep honoring your friends wish to not bring it up yourself - but be prepared with an answer and discussion and a shoulder when the kid(s) bring it up to you.

Where I live, there is an agency that specifically supports children of a dying/deceased parent. Both with grief counseling and fun opportunities they may not have otherwise.

best wishes

edited to add:
Another thought would be to ask the husband what his thoughts are and if he has any plans on how /when to address it with the kids.

 

[gemmynonimous]

Thank you so much for your replies, Austina and RFisher!

When my friend first got the diagnosis, I tried to bring up the idea of preparing… I had these Western/American ideas about preparing letters for the kids for significant moments in their life when they are older, writing about their mom so they have some additional memories of her… but this did not sit well with my friend. I didn’t even get to the stage where I’d propose these ideas. Just the beginning of the conversation of “what’s the plan if things don’t go well” was so uncomfortable that we did not return to it. It did, however, prompt her to make basic plans for their care in their worst case scenario, and I’m very grateful for that.

RFisher — I wonder if there are similar services here (we are on the east coast of the US), but accessing them would mean admitting what’s happening. I think things are coming to a point where I feel bad acting cheerful and positive when I see the kids… it was ok before, but now that their mom is so obviously sick, they may interpret it as me not caring or ignoring their reality. I think I’m leaning towards having one small conversation to start, where I would say that as adults we have to stay positive and try to do what’s best for our children, but I am worried and understand that their mom is unwell. If they’d like to talk about it, I’m here for them. Now I’m trying to prepare for what I’d answer if they do ask the scary stuff.

I really appreciate the responses! This is the only forum I’ve been a part of in recent years and I know the members here are diverse and with a lot of life experience. After posting I thought maybe I should have posted in some cancer forum with people who have more experience and expertise… but I haven’t been able to find such a forum quickly and the ones I did find didn’t really address this aspect as much.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I can give advice based on my own experience of losing my mother at eight to cancer.

If there is one thing I wish, it is that my mom (and family at large) didn’t keep me in the dark about what was going on. Depending on the maturity of the children, having the family give as much age appropriate information as possible will help them prepare to transition to a life without her. Maybe a child psychologist would offer some help in this area. Of course there is only so much eight year olds can understand so maybe if the mother feels up to it, she could write letters to each child. This way they have her thoughts on paper forever.

My saving Grace was my best friend’s mother, she really stepped up and kept the two of us busy, that helps as well. If you can step in afterwards that will be amazing support for them.

I’m so sorry for what you and these children are going through, my thoughts are with you all.

 

[gemmynonimous]

I can give advice based on my own experience of losing my mother at eight to cancer.

If there is one thing I wish, it is that my mom (and family at large) didn’t keep me in the dark about what was going on. Depending on the maturity of the children, having the family give as much age appropriate information as possible will help them prepare to transition to a life without her. Maybe a child psychologist would offer some help in this area. Of course there is only so much eight year olds can understand so maybe if the mother feels up to it, she could write letters to each child. This way they have her thoughts on paper forever.

My saving Grace was my best friend’s mother, she really stepped up and kept the two of us busy, that helps as well. If you can step in afterwards that will be amazing support for them.

I’m so sorry for what you and these children are going through, my thoughts are with you all.

Thank you for sharing your experience! This is exactly what I’ve been thinking… a little age appropriate info. How terrifying it must be when the grown ups can’t or won’t address what’s happening… but the kids can see that something terrifying is actually happening.

On the other hand, one doesn’t want to scare them prematurely. But when is the right time…

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Thank you for sharing your experience! This is exactly what I’ve been thinking… a little age appropriate info. How terrifying it must be when the grown ups can’t or won’t address what’s happening… but the kids can see that something terrifying is actually happening.

On the other hand, one doesn’t want to scare them prematurely. But when is the right time…

I know, it’s so hard to know when and how much to tell them. Maybe start with finding out how much they know and go from there. Honestly I’m no professional, this is just coming from living through it. That’s why I suggested maybe a psychologist could be of help.

In my case, I knew she was sick but I didn’t know she wouldn’t recover. I also was not allowed to go to the funeral and that was the worst part, not even having the option to go.

Edited to add: It really is up to the family to tell them as KaeKae said but you can be a source of support for the kids and the family as needed.

 

[KaeKae]

I'm so sorry this is happening.

We were a little older (11 and 13) when my mother passed with lung cancer. This was over forty years ago, and little did I know that the chances of surviving lung cancer was almost zero at that time. The only thing I was told was "I am going to beat this." Unfortunately, she didn't and we were not prepared. One Saturday, I went off to a school event and when I returned my aunt and uncle were there, mom and dad were at the hospital. I assumed she'd come home in a few days, but she didn't.

I don't have the answer to how to tell them, I pray that your friend and her husband are now thinking about it, maybe will talk to a professional on how. I'll never forget the moment I realized that they had to have known, but didn't prepare us. I was furious, heartbroken.

And, back then for us, there wasn't any school counseling available, nor did my father take us to any. How my brother and I ended up fairly well balanced adults, I do not know. Hopefully your friend's kids will be given a safe place to talk as needed and maybe even a support group of some kind. I know I found my own in two friends at school who had lost a parent, too.

That said, it's clear it's not your place to tell the kids, but to be a source of strength now and in the future. Everything you've described is great. We were very lucky have adults in our lives do the same. Our mom's friends, our friends and their families. We had no idea there were so many people keeping an eye on us, especially after school when our father was at work still. They included us in things, drove us places like practices and lessons that our father couldn't do. They made sure we had some semblance of "normal" when life wasn't every going to be the same again, because we could participate in the "normal."

I will be thinking about you and your friend and her family.

 

[gemmynonimous]

I know, it’s so hard to know when and how much to tell them. Maybe start with finding out how much they know and go from there. Honestly I’m no professional, this is just coming from living through it. That’s why I suggested maybe a psychologist could be of help.

In my case, I knew she was sick but I didn’t know she wouldn’t recover. I also was not allowed to go to the funeral and that was the worst part, not even having the option to go.

Edited to add: It really is up to the family to tell them as KaeKae said but you can be a source of support for the kids and the family as needed.

So, so sorry you had to go through that. Just ((( hug )))

 

[gemmynonimous]

I'm so sorry this is happening.

We were a little older (11 and 13) when my mother passed with lung cancer. This was over forty years ago, and little did I know that the chances of surviving lung cancer was almost zero at that time. The only thing I was told was "I am going to beat this." Unfortunately, she didn't and we were not prepared. One Saturday, I went off to a school event and when I returned my aunt and uncle were there, mom and dad were at the hospital. I assumed she'd come home in a few days, but she didn't.

I don't have the answer to how to tell them, I pray that your friend and her husband are now thinking about it, maybe will talk to a professional on how. I'll never forget the moment I realized that they had to have known, but didn't prepare us. I was furious, heartbroken.

And, back then for us, there wasn't any school counseling available, nor did my father take us to any. How my brother and I ended up fairly well balanced adults, I do not know. Hopefully your friend's kids will be given a safe place to talk as needed and maybe even a support group of some kind. I know I found my own in two friends at school who had lost a parent, too.

That said, it's clear it's not your place to tell the kids, but to be a source of strength now and in the future. Everything you've described is great. We were very lucky have adults in our lives do the same. Our mom's friends, our friends and their families. We had no idea there were so many people keeping an eye on us, especially after school when our father was at work still. They included us in things, drove us places like practices and lessons that our father couldn't do. They made sure we had some semblance of "normal" when life wasn't every going to be the same again, because we could participate in the "normal."

I will be thinking about you and your friend and her family.

Thank you for your thoughts! Unfortunately I do not think the kids will have the benefit of a professional or support group. If their mom passes, they will go back to their country and their extended family. On the one hand, that will be one huge support group. And they will have a change of setting. On the other hand, I don’t think psychological support there is really common. I mean… they will make it through. But I want to try my best with the time we have. I can keep just doing play dates and such… I won’t sit them down to have any really difficult conversations if their mom isn’t ready.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

You are a wonderful freind

My step daughter very recently surcumed to cancer leaving behind a 10 and almost 15 year old
she had battled on bravelly and quite successfully for a number of years
anyway in the end it caught up with her and she didnt have a long time to say goodbuy
i dont think the kids really knew this was it till it was, well this is it
they knew mum was sick and that she would die eventually but not how much longer she had


My sister was still at high school when our dad died of cancer
my dad battled it for 3 years
it always seemed to be xmas time the doctor would tell us he only had x amount of time left
my sister and i did not cope well after the fact

Melanie's kids were quite good at the funeral but due to their grandad's ill health and the pandemic we have been unable to se them since, but i know both their grandmas will be there for them

i feel so sad for your child's freinds and their dad as they are new to the country and wont have the extended family support

So i would just say just continue to be there for the kids after
because after is so much worse

 

[gemmynonimous]

You are a wonderful freind

My step daughter very recently surcumed to cancer leaving behind a 10 and almost 15 year old
she had battled on bravelly and quite successfully for a number of years
anyway in the end it caught up with her and she didnt have a long time to say goodbuy
i dont think the kids really knew this was it till it was, well this is it
they knew mum was sick and that she would die eventually but not how much longer she had


My sister was still at high school when our dad died of cancer
my dad battled it for 3 years
it always seemed to be xmas time the doctor would tell us he only had x amount of time left
my sister and i did not cope well after the fact

Melanie's kids were quite good at the funeral but due to their grandad's ill health and the pandemic we have been unable to se them since, but i know both their grandmas will be there for them

i feel so sad for your child's freinds and their dad as they are new to the country and wont have the extended family support

So i would just say just continue to be there for the kids after
because after is so much worse

So sorry for their loss. Gosh, I don’t even want to think about the “after,” to be honest. Unfathomable. I did hang out with them today and they were in such good spirits, I didn’t bring up anything at all and we just had a good time. One step at a time, I think.

 

[BlingBlingLova]

This happened to my friend this summer. She died in July of breast cancer but she was prepared. She had 3 kids, the youngest was 12 years old and she was very close to her mom. In March, she was admitted to the hospital and the doctors told her that she had 3 months to live. The first thing my friend did was put her 12 year old in counseling. We are of middle eastern descent and therapy or counseling of any kind is very taboo in our culture. In fact, in our culture, if someone is suffering my depression, then it is a sign that God is mad at you and the cure for depression is reading the Koran and praying omg! But I digress. My point is that the girl is doing ok now and she is still seeing a counselor.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Thank you for what you are doing for the children @gemmynonimous

This is my biggest fear: having to leave my children behind at a young age. It makes me very very sad & anxious even thinking about it. I agree that wonderful friends like you are what keeps those children safe.

I also agree that a counselor would be very helpful for all of them. If it's not possible to even discuss this with the mom, why not ask for guidance yourself? Children grieve differently than adults. It is very helpful to know the mechanisms behind this. Maybe a grief counselor could you walk you through the main points in one session and address specific questions about your situation in a second session. This could be very helpful and beneficial.

I'm not an expert, but looked into the basics when my father passed away to be able to better guide my children.

Children live very much in the moment. It is extremely important to let them live their funny, silly, happy moment to the fullest. Grief comes and goes rather abruptly for short bouts. This is a mechanism of the brain to expose the psyche to the trauma in small portions to keep it manageable. It is of utmost importance to know how to handle this (be attentive and open, but careful not to prolong over the bearable short period of time).

There's a chapter in Oprah's book "what happened to you?" that touches on this as well. Maybe a good start if you haven't read it yet?

In my area grief counseling is often a free service through hospices or support organisations.

 

[TooPatient]

A friend's wife passed almost two years ago now. They knew it was coming as she had a birth defect in her heart. I know they talked with their daughter. She had seen her mom in and out of the hospital her entire life. This last time in the hospital was different due to covid. She didn't get to see her mom. Last she saw, her mom was going to the hospital just like so many times before. Next thing she knew, people were crying and saying she died. For weeks this kid (around 10) screamed and refused to believe them. She was sure her mom was still in the hospital and the doctors were just hiding her. As per the Mom's wishes, she was cremated. The girl had a hard time connecting that urn to her mom. It was all a lie and her mom would be coming home soon! It didn't help that this happened right during all of the lockdowns with no service allowed.
The daughter is doing well now. She has friends fr support groups she was in and is happy again.

I have no advice to give. Just lots of hugs to you and your friend as you go through this. Hopefully the experience my friend went through can help the adults involved be prepared.

 

[gemmynonimous]

This happened to my friend this summer. She died in July of breast cancer but she was prepared. She had 3 kids, the youngest was 12 years old and she was very close to her mom. In March, she was admitted to the hospital and the doctors told her that she had 3 months to live. The first thing my friend did was put her 12 year old in counseling. We are of middle eastern descent and therapy or counseling of any kind is very taboo in our culture. In fact, in our culture, if someone is suffering my depression, then it is a sign that God is mad at you and the cure for depression is reading the Koran and praying omg! But I digress. My point is that the girl is doing ok now and she is still seeing a counselor.

How thoughtful it was of your friend to do this for her children! Thank you for sharing their story. I will look into the counseling options in our area. Thank you!

 

[gemmynonimous]

Thank you for what you are doing for the children @gemmynonimous

This is my biggest fear: having to leave my children behind at a young age. It makes me very very sad & anxious even thinking about it. I agree that wonderful friends like you are what keeps those children safe.

I also agree that a counselor would be very helpful for all of them. If it's not possible to even discuss this with the mom, why not ask for guidance yourself? Children grieve differently than adults. It is very helpful to know the mechanisms behind this. Maybe a grief counselor could you walk you through the main points in one session and address specific questions about your situation in a second session. This could be very helpful and beneficial.

I'm not an expert, but looked into the basics when my father passed away to be able to better guide my children.

Children live very much in the moment. It is extremely important to let them live their funny, silly, happy moment to the fullest. Grief comes and goes rather abruptly for short bouts. This is a mechanism of the brain to expose the psyche to the trauma in small portions to keep it manageable. It is of utmost importance to know how to handle this (be attentive and open, but careful not to prolong over the bearable short period of time).

There's a chapter in Oprah's book "what happened to you?" that touches on this as well. Maybe a good start if you haven't read it yet?

In my area grief counseling is often a free service through hospices or support organisations.

That is such, such useful info about the way children process grief! I’ve read up a little but obviously not enough. Totally makes sense that they would process it in bursts, that is kind of what I’m observing too, even if we don’t yet discuss that their mom might not get better. We’re trying our best to let them just be kids, too. I will look into caregiver counseling and the Oprah book. Really appreciate the advice!

 

[gemmynonimous]

A friend's wife passed almost two years ago now. They knew it was coming as she had a birth defect in her heart. I know they talked with their daughter. She had seen her mom in and out of the hospital her entire life. This last time in the hospital was different due to covid. She didn't get to see her mom. Last she saw, her mom was going to the hospital just like so many times before. Next thing she knew, people were crying and saying she died. For weeks this kid (around 10) screamed and refused to believe them. She was sure her mom was still in the hospital and the doctors were just hiding her. As per the Mom's wishes, she was cremated. The girl had a hard time connecting that urn to her mom. It was all a lie and her mom would be coming home soon! It didn't help that this happened right during all of the lockdowns with no service allowed.
The daughter is doing well now. She has friends fr support groups she was in and is happy again.

I have no advice to give. Just lots of hugs to you and your friend as you go through this. Hopefully the experience my friend went through can help the adults involved be prepared.

That story breaks my heart… but thank you for sharing that the child is better now. It’s good to remember that children are resilient… and that support groups are important. Thank you.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

That is such, such useful info about the way children process grief! I’ve read up a little but obviously not enough. Totally makes sense that they would process it in bursts, that is kind of what I’m observing too, even if we don’t yet discuss that their mom might not get better. We’re trying our best to let them just be kids, too. I will look into caregiver counseling and the Oprah book. Really appreciate the advice!

Much love and support to you! Thank you for looking out for those children