How far we have yet to go....

[Gypsy]

https://www.good.is/articles/sexist-postcards-trump-tweets?utm_source=121&utm_medium=FB&utm_campaign=swp

 

[ksinger]

https://www.good.is/articles/sexist-postcards-trump-tweets?utm_source=121&utm_medium=FB&utm_campaign=swp

Yeah, I hate the "everything old is new again" thing we've got going on in the US right now.

 

[arkieb1]

I think there are plenty of men in positions of power that treat women like Trump. Last night I was watching an article on the 7.30 report stating that in Australia one of the professions that has the highest levels of complains for sexual harassment happens to be lawyers, and one in two female barristers in NSW have experienced sexual harassment from work colleges, I assume it is probably similar in the US;

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4564771.htm

You can read bits of the transcripts if you don't want to watch it. The point being that in a profession heavily dominated by intelligent men in so called advanced countries like yours and mine, you would think we could do better, they are lawyers for f@#* sake yet they obviously think they are above the law.

 

[redwood66]

Thanks for the link Gypsy. I have been having a bit of guilt about some of the threads here lately with regard to feminism and realized I may not have been empathetic enough to the plight of some women. I am not a died in the wool feminist and I am not sure what that even might be. It has not been my fight or experience in my life at any point. I did not suffer harassment at work from male coworkers or superiors. But I think my personality did not allow someone to think they could possibly do it in the first place. I am a pretty tough woman who grew up on a ranch working my a$$ off from a young age. Then entering the workforce in my job that was not exactly a bastion of femininity. All of this culminates into a person that might have to step outside herself to see that not everyone can just suck it up and move forward or "cowboy up" as we horsey people say. Thanks for listening and know that I do care even if sometimes it doesn't sound like it.

But I am still conservative and can't stand Hillary.

 

[Gypsy]

I am happy to see that this hasn't been a "politicized" thread. I didn't meant it that way. I voted for Hillary today, yes, but my voting for her had nothing to do with her sex. Feminism isn't a political issue. It's a matter of societal health.

I am a feminist. I don't like that the word has so many negative associations attached to it, but it is inevitable that 'propaganda' has undermined it's meaning as it threatens the patriarchy.

I don't think feminism is about women in the workplace. I think that's just... wrong.

To me feminism is the ideal that women are in every way equal to men in terms of their value to society. Not to the workplace, though that is certainly part of it. But rather the ideal that in a healthy society women and men hold positions of power in the workplace, in society, in politics based on their merit and not based on their sex.

To me as a feminist it is just as repulsive an idea that I should vote for a candidate just because they are woman as it is that I should disqualify a candidate just because they are a woman.


Whether they are at home, taking care of children, whether they are in the workplace, or drunk at a fraternity house party... that women have INTRINSIC value just because they are human and deserve respect simply because of that. Not because they are someone's wife, girlfriend, daughter. Not in any way because of what they mean to or what they can do for a man. But that they are valuable just because they are PEOPLE. And that by virtue of being a PERSON deserve equality and respect.

That's what feminism means.

You don't have to have experienced ANY sexism to be feminist. My husband is a feminist. It's not something that is defined by what it stands AGAINST or something that impacts women alone. It is something that is defined by what it stands for: the belief that sex has no place in the determination of a person's intrinsic value to society.

And, redwood, just because you have never been AWARE of any overt sexism working against you doesn't meant that it HASN'T impacted your life. If you were paid less at your job simply because you are a woman (and you probably were) then you experienced sexism.

And every time SOMEONE even implies that right of women to vote is a PRIVILEGE (instead of a fundamental right) that could be revoked, that affects all of us as a society. Whether we are women or men. We are healthier as PEOPLE when ALL people regardless of sex (or race, or color, creed. or national origin, or sexual orientation, or religion... etc.) are valued equality by our society for their intrinsic worth has human beings. And that affects everyone. It shouldn't matter whether you are Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green, blue purple, black, white, man, or woman EVERYONE should be a feminist because HUMANITY as a whole benefits from our equality.

 

[redwood66]

Gypsy thanks for your thoughts on this subject. I have not been paid less than my male or female coworkers unless they had more seniority than me - unions and state jobs. I have never thought my worth was any less than anyone else or because I was a woman. My grandmother was of the era that the men made the decisions but she has been fine the last 25 years without him. My mother was always equal partner with my father and did just as much physical work as he did on the ranch. I guess I am blessed not to have experienced what some women do and my point was that I need to have empathy for those unlike me.

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy thanks for your thoughts on this subject. I have not been paid less than my male or female coworkers unless they had more seniority than me - unions and state jobs. I have never thought my worth was any less than anyone else or because I was a woman. My grandmother was of the era that the men made the decisions but she has been fine the last 25 years without him. My mother was always equal partner with my father and did just as much physical work as he did on the ranch. I guess I am blessed not to have experienced what some women do and my point was that I need to have empathy for those unlike me.

Ahh, unions. I forgot about those.

I don't think it's just the need to have empathy for those less fortunate, its the acknowledgement that sexism is real and damaging not just to women who are OVERT victims of it but to our entire society. And that while it may not OVERTLY affect you, as a member of society it DOES ACTUALLY affect you as well. And that YOU are harmed by it just by virtue of it's existence and threat to our societal health.