Haitian orphan rant ...

[meresal]

Date: 2/7/2010 8:06:19 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I am pretty much in agreement with Vesper's posts although I feel that some are misunderstanding her. I am also really amazed that there are people here who would not help an abandoned child. Yes, I would take the children to an approved orphanage and not do something as dumb as removing them from the country illegally. If parents are handing over kids because they can't feed them, then they need help. I'd far rather help the child make it to a safe haven than have them end up in slavery or dead! And the idea that handing the family money would end up helping the child is extremely naive!

As far as the missionary situation goes, I think there is validity to question the motives of the LEADER of the group. She seems to have had some questionable dealings here in the US. One other person may have known what she was doing. The others were simply church members from Idaho who were moved by the horrible tragedy in Haiti and volunteered to go help. From what I have read, even the Haitian attorney believed that 8-9 of them were simply misled (or deceived) by the woman who is the leader. I am really disappointed that there was such a presumption of guilt toward people who made real sacrifices to go down there to try to help.

We sponsor children in Haiti through a real Christian missionary (and did so long before the earthquake). She does it the right way.

http://www.danitaschildren.org/

My definition of an abondoned child is NOT one that is living with their parents. An abandoned child is one that is living on streets alone or with underage children. Who wouldn't help a child that has absolutely no supervision at all? THAT is not the situation here.
Just for conversation sake, as a random traveler there "you" have no idea what Haiti is really like, so how do you know that the orphanages are safe? You are just assuming. What if you "helped" 20 children by getting them into an orphanage, only to find out that the people that owned it were part of a trafficing ring... what then? Do you say, "I was only trying to help?"

I am assuming that there are PLENTY of people working in Haiti to help the child traffic issue, who are obviously much more qualified than I am and more educated on the area, and they don't need "help" from random American's who think they know what is best for Haiti, because they saw a tear jerking expose on CNN.

As for these missionaries that made "real" sacrifices... I'm pretty sure that American's are being told NOT to travel there to try and help. Exactly what sacrifice did they make by going agaist the wishes of our own governement? It was their own choice to travel there... not one asked them to, and no one asked them for their help.

I am actually a very compassionate person, but when it comes to sticking your nose where it isn't necessary, I think you must live with the consequences that you have created for yourself.

 

[sparklyheart]

Date: 2/7/2010 7:52:47 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 2/7/2010 10:22:28 AM
Author: sparklyheart
As someone else said, just because we are Americans and have money doesn''t mean we can go into Haiti and do whatever we want. There are horrible living conditions all over the world but we can''t go in and fix the world with our money. I am 100% in favor of donating and volunteering with organizations such as the Red Cross because in times of need they are wonderful. However, just because Haiti has experienced such a horrendous event does not mean that we should go in and fix everything WE see wrong with their country. Oh my! Could you imagine if France decided they were ready to ''fix'' America after 9/11?? Haitians have a different culture, a different way of viewing the world.. Is it wrong? In many ways, I would say yes.. but do they? Maybe that''s the best they can do.. Like the mom with 14 kids.. No, none of us would say it''s ''right'' but with their living conditions, it may be the best they can do. Our country has been pumping money into them for how long now?? Sure we have ideas of what they should do with that money but Haiti is a big girl and has to make big girl decisions. Maybe the government needs assistance as far as knowledge about forming a stable government or developing a stronger economy.. But you can''t go in and change everything up and expect them to listen or even care when they already have their cultural norms in place. When it comes to how children (and adults) are treated, I think the international world does have the chance to go in there and help improve living conditions but how big of a feat is that? And if we do it in Haiti then we have to go to Africa..heck people in America can''t even treat their kids well!! Changing conditions like that is a long process and you can''t expect it to change overnight..that being said, I do hope organizations and the government are keeping an eye on the conditions down there and doing their best to protect people but right now, I doubt their focus is on the things that have been going on forever (giving away extra children to be slaves) when they have issues such as trafficking to be concerned with.

I''m not going to lie, I hate the idea of bringing all of the Haitian children to America. We can''t even take care of our own children so why do we need to aqcuire 400K more??

Who said anything about bringing 400,000 Haitian children here??? Any children brought here will be done so through adoptions where an approved adoptive family wants to bring a homeless or orphaned child into their family. The few that make it will be very fortunate to have an opportunity for a better life.

Sorry, my mistake.. Looking back, I realize I misread a response and got confused! I am happy for the children who are adopted but I also believe that if you are going to adopt a child you should be able to support him/her. I just wish they could speed up the process so that families who want to adopt are able to do so.

 

[perry]

Date: 2/7/2010 8:39:33 PM
Author: Should Be Studying

Date: 2/7/2010 7:58:35 PM


Wow, Perry, your description of what you experienced in Haiti is shocking (but then again, not so much). I am so glad that you shared your perspective. My notes would not be very helpful, because I traveled to Haiti to visit family, so I have always seen a different side of things. I do agree that you reading stories and watching videos is not the same as actually being there. The poverty and living conditions are astounding. Every time I go there, I feel such a sense of sadness for the people, because most of them really have no chance at improving their lives. The problems they faced on a daily basis BEFORE the earthquake were just heartbreaking. Now, I can''t even imagine what they will face, between the psychological aftermath, the physical destruction, and the mass numbers of amputees and orphans.


I agree with you that the focus should be on the future and effectively helping to find solutions. I have had so many discussions with people about this in the past, regarding other facets of Haitian culture, and the same question has come up: how do you slowly change a culture? There are no easy answers to that question.

I agree there are no easy ways to slowly change a culture. But we do have to try. In the meantime; what many people do not understand who have not been there is just how massive the problems and issues are. It may seem heartless to not focus on the child servants/slave issue; unless you realize that is one of the lessor problem facing those people.

What I forgot to mention in my post was the utter poverty and level of desperation, and local deforestation around Port-a-Prince (Spelling?). I should also state that my visit was in the late 1970''s. Every morning there were dead bodies in the street somewhere. If you needed to walk down the narrow street before they were cleaned up you often had to step over them (guess how I know that).

Of course I was a very untypical sailor in that I did not drink and was interested in seeing the local city (not just the tourist areas) and was willing to venture into the restaurants that the locals ate in.

On the good side though.... I had a really great meal in some local restaurant (and I probably tipped them enough for a weeks normal profit); and I bought a sugar bag canvas painting that is still on my bedroom wall. I am sure I have slides from that trip buried in the basement.

As far as the sex slave situation: I always knew that such trade existed (and in many countries - including the U.S.). I was not expecting to be in a place where I was directly offered to partake merely by my presence and the obvious fact that I and my shipmates were "wealthy" by their standards - and that anything that produced income seemed to be OK. Prostitutes were licensed by the government and carried a green card (with routing medical checks required - this was pre-AIDS). I don''t fault the ladies - as it is a way to earn a living (and they probably earned a better living than many others).

I hope that a lot of good can come from the international response and help with the earthquake.

Perry

 

[meresal]

Date: 2/8/2010 6:41:31 PM
Author: perry


I agree there are no easy ways to slowly change a culture. But we do have to try.

Will you please expalin to me why it is our job as American''s to try and change THEIR culture?

Have they asked us for our help? To come there and take control... and show them what they SHOULD be doing?

 

[Should Be Studying]

Date: 2/8/2010 10:30:12 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 2/8/2010 6:41:31 PM

Author: perry



I agree there are no easy ways to slowly change a culture. But we do have to try.

Will you please expalin to me why it is our job as American''s to try and change THEIR culture?


Have they asked us for our help? To come there and take control... and show them what they SHOULD be doing?

I know you quoted perry here, but I said the same thing in a prior post. I just want to clarify, I was not referring to "we" Americans. I was referring to "we" as anyone who wants to help Haiti find solutions for the future. I also was not referring to the culture as part of the original restavec issue (sorry for the threadjack!). I was referring to several facets of Haitian culture that I believe contribute to the many problems the Haitian people have faced pre-earthquake. I think perry was on the same page, but I don''t want to speak for him. I am not suggesting that any American (or someone from any other country) has a duty to try to change the Haitian culture...I was speaking more about the fact that I feel a personal obligation to ask questions about how to find solutions.

 

[Should Be Studying]

Date: 2/8/2010 6:41:31 PM
Author: perry

Date: 2/7/2010 8:39:33 PM

Author: Should Be Studying

Date: 2/7/2010 7:58:35 PM



Wow, Perry, your description of what you experienced in Haiti is shocking (but then again, not so much). I am so glad that you shared your perspective. My notes would not be very helpful, because I traveled to Haiti to visit family, so I have always seen a different side of things. I do agree that you reading stories and watching videos is not the same as actually being there. The poverty and living conditions are astounding. Every time I go there, I feel such a sense of sadness for the people, because most of them really have no chance at improving their lives. The problems they faced on a daily basis BEFORE the earthquake were just heartbreaking. Now, I can''t even imagine what they will face, between the psychological aftermath, the physical destruction, and the mass numbers of amputees and orphans.



I agree with you that the focus should be on the future and effectively helping to find solutions. I have had so many discussions with people about this in the past, regarding other facets of Haitian culture, and the same question has come up: how do you slowly change a culture? There are no easy answers to that question.

I agree there are no easy ways to slowly change a culture. But we do have to try. In the meantime; what many people do not understand who have not been there is just how massive the problems and issues are. It may seem heartless to not focus on the child servants/slave issue; unless you realize that is one of the lessor problem facing those people.


What I forgot to mention in my post was the utter poverty and level of desperation, and local deforestation around Port-a-Prince (Spelling?). I should also state that my visit was in the late 1970''s. Every morning there were dead bodies in the street somewhere. If you needed to walk down the narrow street before they were cleaned up you often had to step over them (guess how I know that).


Of course I was a very untypical sailor in that I did not drink and was interested in seeing the local city (not just the tourist areas) and was willing to venture into the restaurants that the locals ate in.


On the good side though.... I had a really great meal in some local restaurant (and I probably tipped them enough for a weeks normal profit); and I bought a sugar bag canvas painting that is still on my bedroom wall. I am sure I have slides from that trip buried in the basement.


As far as the sex slave situation: I always knew that such trade existed (and in many countries - including the U.S.). I was not expecting to be in a place where I was directly offered to partake merely by my presence and the obvious fact that I and my shipmates were ''wealthy'' by their standards - and that anything that produced income seemed to be OK. Prostitutes were licensed by the government and carried a green card (with routing medical checks required - this was pre-AIDS). I don''t fault the ladies - as it is a way to earn a living (and they probably earned a better living than many others).


I hope that a lot of good can come from the international response and help with the earthquake.


Perry

Perry, I agree with you completely about so many things you said in this post. Sometimes it is overwhelming to think of all the problems that these people face, but people have to start somewhere. It is amazing to see how the world has pulled together to help, and I hope that Haiti will now have a chance to rebuild a stronger country.

As for walking over dead bodies in the streets, I was lucky enough to go at times when things were not so bad, but my father has told me similar stories. Sadly, this earthquake brought so many more dead bodies into the streets. Just seeing the pictures is difficult, so I cannot imagine what it must be like to experience walking past all that death (either in the 1970s or now).

(By the way, because you asked about the spelling twice, it is Port-au-Prince.

)

vespergirl, sorry if I went slightly off-topic! I agree with you that child trafficking is a major problem, and I have not been trying to suggest otherwise at all throughout this thread.

 

[Imdanny]

Perry, your comments made me sick (no offense to you at all). That which you describe in your first post seems more criminal than cultural to me, even if such a horror is widespread (as I guess you are implying).

Yuck, that was really disturbing.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yes, extremely disturbing. There are aspects of the culture that need to change. It is hard to imagine how that can be accomplished because of how complicated the situation is.