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Who Gwendolyn, can we hear more about you?

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IndyGal''s thread on best friends made me think of this story. It''s not a happy one.

As a kid, I had a couple of best friends that sort of rotated when we moved. Once we were in Maryland (when I was 13), I became good friends with a girl named M who was my best friend for a few years. Details are in another post in this thread, but suffice it to say she became exceedingly depressed, I told her parents she was going to hurt herself, and she never spoke to me again.

After our friendship ended, I became closer with another friend K, who had also been depressed at the same time. K''s parents had recently split up--K''s mom was a lesbian, and K it turns out was bi, so she was going through a lot and didn''t know how to handle it. I was (in my opinion) a good friend to her, always listened when she needed someone to talk to, which was fairly often. I had no self-esteem back then, so I always put everyone else first. She came to expect me to drop everything for her, and in retrospect, I think this was probably an unhealthy foundation for our friendship. Regardless, we were good friends in high school, and then went off to separate colleges.

She was one of those friends (I''ll bet everyone''s had at least one) that is calling you or emailing you or seeing you ALL the time, until she starts dating someone, and then--poof! No word for months at a time. This behaviour annoyed me, and I''d tell her that I didn''t appreciate the fact that she would leave me hanging for months on end while she was off spending every minute with her new love interest. She said she would improve the next time, but then she''d fall off the planet again. I got frustrated and when she broke up with whoever the flavour of the month was then, I told her I was sick of being treated like that and she was either my friend or not. No more of this ''only friends when I''m single'' crap. She thought I was being unreasonable and we didn''t talk for 6 months. Eventually we made up again, after she told me she''d done some growing up, and we were friends again.

After college, she moved to Utah. I drove her car out there for her (she has a phobia of lots of things, one of which is driving). After a few years, she moved to NYC. We haven''t lived in the same geographical location in a long time, but we still talked on the phone and emailed a bit. I referred to her as my best friend, and she called me that as well.

I went through a rough time a few years back. My boyfriend B had cheated on me, and my life just wasn''t what I wanted it to be. I used to cry myself to sleep every night because I felt like nothing had worked out the way I wanted it to and I didn''t know where to start to make things better. I was depressed for a year, crying all the time for reasons I didn''t always understand. I kept it to myself, and literally no one knew. I buried myself in work--had four jobs to pay the bills and keep myself busy, but I was still miserable inside. After a year of this, I knew that I needed help, but didn''t have the strength to just call a psychologist out of the blue. K''s mom is a psychologist, and K had always said that therapy was something she recommends for everyone. So I decided to pool together all my strength and tell K that I was depressed, thinking she would be the nudge I needed to get me to call a counselor.

She heard me say I was depressed, and asked, "Are you suicidal?" I said, "No, I don''t think I could ever do that," at which point she told me she didn''t have time to listen to me. She said she was in law school (technically on a break from law school but whatever) and that she had time for J (her boyfriend at the time) and her mom, and that was it. She told me she "had to backburner me" because she "couldn''t deal with me" at that time.

I got even more depressed. When it had been her that was depressed, I had dropped everything to be there for her to help her. Now, I did NOT expect the same in return because a) I know I dropped everything because I had no self-esteem, and b) all I wanted was a few minutes of her time so she''d encourage me to talk to a professional which is what I''d thought she would do. Having her tell me she had no time for me when I was already so depressed was devastating to me. I spent another 6 months being depressed, and didn''t hear back from her in all that time.

Her boyfriend at the time was a very good friend of mine--they had met through me. She had somehow twisted what I had told her and reported it back to her boyfriend (J) as me being upset that they were dating. So, near the end of my (now) year and a half long bout of depression, K''s boyfriend/my friend J confronted me about my problem with their relationship. I was really confused, and said, "What problem? I don''t care that you guys are dating," and he said, "Well why haven''t you and K been talking, then? She said you''ve been upset that we''re dating, and while I can understand that you''re envious because you don''t have someone yourself, I don''t think it''s fair to not talk to her for half a year! That''s ridiculous!" I blinked at him for what felt like an hour and then told him that I''d told her I was depressed and that she''d told me she had no time for me, and THAT''S why we hadn''t talked in 6 months. I love him dearly, but the next thing he did made me worry about their future marriage (they are married now): he shook his head, waved his arms in front of him, and said, "Ok, ok, I don''t want to hear anymore." It was the grown-up equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting, "I can''t hear you, la la la la!" He didn''t want to hear anything bad about his girlfriend, even though I suspect he could tell from my shock and my face that I was telling the truth.

K''s mother, the next day, sent me messages over IM, telling me to think of K and all the pain I am causing her. I explained what happened to her also, that *I* was the one who had approached *K* because of my pain, and was turned away into the street. I ended up feeling ganged up on, because they kept saying, "Think of K, think of K!" and I had no one to stick up for me. I had a conversation with her, where I told her about what I had told her about being depressed, and how she had "backburnered" me because she didn''t have time for me, and she never denied it, but avoided it altogether. She kept coming back to this imagined issue about her and J, and I said, "NO. That was NOT what IT was ABOUT." But she wouldn''t hear me. I have never in my life experienced anyone so deliberately obtuse before. She had created her own reality and wasn''t budged for anything.

When they later announced they were getting married, I was asked to be the maid of honour. Her fiance/my friend said, "No matter what has happen, you are still her best friend." I said, "I''m sorry, but I can''t say the same. I don''t trust her anymore. The one time in my life I needed her, and she told me to get lost." Again, he didn''t want to hear it, so he shrugged off my comments and said it would mean the world to both of them if I would show my blessing of their marriage by being the maid of honour. She made me give a speech about her at the reception. I made it one more about her husband, a funny story, to avoid all the weird issues going on.

She still calls me her best friend. When I hear people talking of their best friends, I feel kind of cheated. Like the relationship I thought I''d had for so long turned out to be so much weaker than I ever imagined. I told my mother about it all after the fact (my mother, when she is having good days, can be a good friend to me), and she said that it was terrible but not surprising since K was always more of a taker than she was a giver.

K informed me a couple of years ago that, when J and I get married, she will be my maid of honour. She is in for an unpleasant surprise.

I am thankful to have James in my life now. He truly is my best friend.
 
Well, I think your best friend now is probably a lot more fun to look at play with than your other friend was.
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I''m betting you got the better end of the deal. I can relate because I have had even worse friend than you described. Reciprocity is so important in a long term friendship as in any other close relationship. When it isn''t there, the relationship becomes draining and painful. I''m glad that you have found your current love.
 
Sorry, that was long and depressing.
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I was originally going to talk about my grandfather who was AWESOME (died when I was 7 but I remember him), but got distracted by the best friend thread.

My grandfather (mom''s dad) was a total character. He worked as the chief photographer for the NY Daily News and has taken some AMAZING photos. He took one entitled "Vertigo" that''s looking down the side of one of the World Trade Center towers during construction, the day it became the tallest building in the world (he was laying on his stomach, hanging over the edge, with two construction workers holding his feet in case a gust of wind came
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).

He was so funny. Hearts (the card game) is a family past-time, and he used to make a HUGE production out of it whenever he was going to land the Queen on someone (she''s 13 points, points are bad, and so she''s very bad news unless you can get all the point cards and thereby add points to everyone else''s score or subtract 26 from your own, which is hard to do). He would sometimes excuse himself to go to the bathroom, come back to the card table to find out it was his turn, and then roll the loo paper out so the Queen would fall on the pile and someone else would be stuck with her!
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My favourite memory of him was when I was about 5 years old. He had promised to take me fishing, and so we got up very early one morning and went out on the lake in a row boat. We were in the middle of the lake when my grandpa started explaining about how the worm gets put on the hook to entice the fish, and I flipped OUT. I started talking really fast, saying, "But the hook is sharp! If the fish eat the worm, they''ll get hurt from the hook. We don''t want to hurt the fish! We are just here to feed them, aren''t we, grandpa? They are nice fishies, aren''t we just feeding them?" I think I started crying for the fish. I was a strangely empathetic child.
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So my grandfather in the space of like 2 seconds aborted his plan with the hook and the worm and said, "OH my goodness, thank you for reminding me! I got confused--I thought were were out here to do some CATCHING, but you wanted to go FISHING!" I think I just sniffled, so he started rowing us back to shore and said how there are two different sports, catching and fishing, and that catching is all about catching the fish so you can have them in the boat with you, and fishing was just about feeding them, and he got all mixed up but that he remembered now. He told me to wait in the boat when we hit the beach, and he ran into the cabin and brought back a loaf of bread, a jar of peanut butter and a knife. Then we went back out onto the lake. He cut off the hook on the end of his fishing line and tied it around a rolled up piece of bread (I''m not sure this will make sense how I describe it because it''s a bit strange). The bread was kind of rolled up like a hand-rolled cigarette, and then mushed and squished a bit to get it as compact as possible, with the fishing line tied around it a few times. Then we smeared peanut butter on the sides of the bread, and lowered it into the water for the fish to eat. And they did! (I''ll bet my grandpa was pleased
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). If you ever wondered if fish will eat peanut butter, now you know. They do.
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Here''s a photo taken back when he was quite young. He died at the age of 57 (I think), of multiple types of cancer (at the last stages, cancer of the stomach and esophagus).

gwensawesomegrandpa.JPG
 
Date: 6/25/2008 5:07:08 PM
Author: miraclesrule
Well, I think your best friend now is probably a lot more fun to look at play with than your other friend was.
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Oh, you know it!
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I''m betting you got the better end of the deal. I can relate because I have had even worse friend than you described. Reciprocity is so important in a long term friendship as in any other close relationship. When it isn''t there, the relationship becomes draining and painful. I''m glad that you have found your current love.
I''m sorry to hear you''ve been through something similar (and worse! Bleh). I would honestly feel so much better about the situation if she would just admit that it happened in the first place. It''s like this HUGE elephant in the room that I''d like her to admit to but she won''t! It''s the same kind of frustration that you mentioned in your daughter''s wedding dress thread, with the saleswoman who just refuses to see what''s plain in front of her face. How do you DEAL with people like that?!
 
Date: 6/23/2008 7:30:35 AM
Author: gwendolyn
Sarah: Hahah, that''s great that you were a brownie as well! Did you go on to be a girl scout? I didn''t, I thought being a brownie was fun but I didn''t like it enough to keep doing it.


I actually have a pretty funny story about something that happened to me while I was a brownie (well, it''s kind of funny now, wasn''t at the time). One of the girls in my troop was so awful! We were having a picnic and people were playing music and all us girls were dancing our little hearts out. 99.9% of the time I was the most perfectly behaved child (kind of sickening, really) but for some reason on that day, I decided it''d be fun to get up on one of the picnic tables to dance (yes, table-dancing at the age of 8 or whatever, my friends LOVE bringing this story up
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). So I was up there, dancing away, and this girl in my brownie troop who always was mean to me climbs up on the table too, and pushes me off! I think she was pissed off that I was getting more attention than her (for once in my life, she always had to be the center of attention). My mom came over and the other girl says, ''She just fell.'' I was crying because I had landed funny and (we found out later that evening) had broken my collarbone. I said ''She pushed me, she pushed me!'' but my mom thought I was just trying to get the other girl in trouble and didn''t believe me. It''s funny now, since it was dumb of me to be dancing on a table, but man oh man, what a little witch that other girl was! So yeah, after that experience, I didn''t really want to be a brownie anymore.
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iwanna: I would be happy to send you some stuff! Like I told Harriet in her M&S thread, though, it''ll have to wait until I am no longer a poor grad student.
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Freke: Hmm, in this case, I think it being Hollywood-ized is a good thing, since I''m not sure I could take an accurate portrayal of his sad, sad life. I definitely intend on seeing it--when I do, I''ll report back to give you my review of it! If you''re curious, that is.
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LP: Thank you, sweetheart! Did you have a nice time this weekend? Were you away with Kris? I hope you had a fun and/or relaxing time!
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miraclesrule: Thank you so much, babe! It''s been difficult dealing with my mom but I feel like I know better how to handle things now than before, so that''s progress of some sort, anyway! I don''t blame my friends for how they were when we were 16--they didn''t know how to handle the situation any better than I did. Sometimes it shows a bit in our current friendships though, since back then I was totally a doormat and just did evvvvvverything for everyone else. I think having old friends is wonderful, except when they sort of regress back to how you USED to be. Sometimes they slip up and act as if I am still a doormat, at which point I have to snap them back to reality and remind them of how much I''ve changed.
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And yeah, J is really totally incredible. If there wasn''t this tiny sliver of my brain saying to wait and be practical to make sure we really will work great together when we live together, we''d be engaged or possibly even married by now. We''ve really been through a lot already that I think we will be able to make it through just about anything.
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Hey Gwen! Haha yep I quit right at girl scout. I was like ummm..that''s enough. The girls in my troop drove me nuts and well..camping to me meant staying at a non-oceanfront hotel or lacking a hair dryer. I was not interested in the whole going camping and doing "real" girl scout type things. I was like that movie Troop Beverly Hills or whatever, have you seen it?
 
Date: 6/26/2008 4:06:08 AM
Author: SarahLovesJS
Hey Gwen! Haha yep I quit right at girl scout. I was like ummm..that''s enough. The girls in my troop drove me nuts and well..camping to me meant staying at a non-oceanfront hotel or lacking a hair dryer. I was not interested in the whole going camping and doing ''real'' girl scout type things. I was like that movie Troop Beverly Hills or whatever, have you seen it?
Hahah, I think I have seen it! I know exactly what you mean about camping--I don''t consider myself a frou-frou girly girl by ANY stretch of the imagination in real life (I almost never blow dry my hair and wear the bare minimum of make-up and don''t especially like pink) but when it comes to the idea of camping (I''ve never been), it''s like all my inner girliness comes out! My brother Mike loves to camp and he wanted me to go with him, and I would''ve been fine trying it out (I''ve never been) IF we''d be within walking distance of a) a shower and b) a bathroom. I HATE feeling dirty and greasy, so I would definitely want to be able to shower (he goes away for long weekends and just ties a rag around his head! No bathing of any kind, eww!) and, I''m sorry, I just cannot see myself squatting down in some bushes! That''s probably a TMI visual, but seriously! And my brother''s idea of camping is hiking at least 5+ miles (I think last time he went it was 12) away from any campsites that have the luxuries of bathrooms and showers, so this is why I have never been camping.
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Here are some things I would like to be doing now, instead of fixing up my thesis:

*taking a long, luxurious bubble bath, with some music playing and a good (relatively) romance novel

*napping, preferably with James napping next to me, and me falling asleep while he strokes my hair (he usually falls asleep WAY faster than me, but hey, I''m fantasizing here!)

*sailing in my grandpa''s old Sunfish on the lake where my grandparents used to live (my parents are now buying that house--wonder if the sailboat is still there?)

*curled up on a comfy couch with my man, either watching The West Wing DVDs he''s borrowed off his best friend (my favourite show!) or watching episodes of Doctor Who (J''s favourite show!)

*having a leisurely stroll around town to do a bit of shopping--I haven''t bought myself anything other than groceries in ages!

*meeting Pandora in London so we can spend the afternoon playing with diamonds

*taking a walk near the backs of the River Cam to use my new camera to take some artsy photos of the gorgeous scenery

*playing the marimba--probably one of Bach''s cello suites (they work really well on marimba) or maybe Rhythm Song...so relaxing.....ahhhhhhh.....

*eating some Chinese take-away

*reading for FUN instead of reading for academia

*drinking heavily in an attempt to forget that my final draft of my thesis is due on Monday morning

*playing Trivial Pursuit/Hearts/Apples to Apples with my friends from home

*eating (can you tell I''m hungry?) the BBQ ranch chicken salad from the Cheesecake Factory--most favourite salad in the world, and no Cheesecake Factories here in England!

*having some CHOCOLATE!!! I''ve been on a restricted diet for the past month or more (I''ve lost track)--I''ve been ill with stress for almost 3 months and as a result have had to cut out chocolate
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, coffee, tea, and spicy food (which I love)!! When this is all over and my body is back to normal, I am going to have some lovely spicy Thai food and a nice piece of chocolate cake or something. Maybe my favourite cake from Wagamama''s--chocolate fudge cake with wasabi--DEEEEEEEEELICIOUS!!
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*napping on the beach

*swimming! One of my favourite things to do. If I didn''t feel so drained, it would probably be first on my list of things to do.

*having a picnic or outside afternoon tea with James

*giving myself a pedicure. I have a cute little do-it-yourself kit so I can give myself French toes, but I haven''t had time to do it yet. After the thesis submission, oh yeah...



Ok, I think that''s enough procrastinating for now....
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Back to work with me!
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Gwen, your grandfather sounds wonderful! What a sweet story.

I''m sure your thesis will be GREAT! And think how nice it will feel for it to be done!
 
Date: 6/26/2008 2:19:50 PM
Author: ladypirate
Gwen, your grandfather sounds wonderful! What a sweet story.
Thanks! He really was. His wife, my amazing grandmother who passed away last July 5th, was one of my best friends, and she would tell me all these lovely stories about him. They fell in love in a similar way to James and I, actually--through text. They knew each other before my grandfather went off to fight in the war, and they wrote to each other the whole time he was away. When he came back, they were married.

I used to joke with my grandma that she should go on some dates with the widowed men at the bingo hall (she LOVED bingo--bingo and chocolate!), but she would always say, "No, no, there''s only one man for me and he''s waiting for me in heaven." After my she passed away last summer, my mom (her executrix) was going through her old papers and things, and found a letter from my grandfather that he had written to my grandmother on the night of their wedding. It read something like, "To my dearest Ruth, I love you with all my heart and will continue to love you for the rest of time, and will be waiting to spend eternity with you my dearest love when we are reunited together in heaven." My mom read it out loud at her funeral, and she had to pass it over to one of her sisters to finish reading because she was so choked up with emotion (just like I''m crying a bit now as I type it up!). They had one of the most beautiful love stories ever.

I''m sure your thesis will be GREAT! And think how nice it will feel for it to be done!
Oh my gosh, I am DREAMING of the day when I can sleep for a full 24-hours straight and not have this "EEEK!" panicky feeling inside me all the time. I will let out about a million sighs of relief! I cannot WAIT!!
 
Date: 6/26/2008 5:23:35 AM
Author: gwendolyn
Date: 6/26/2008 4:06:08 AM

Author: SarahLovesJS

Hey Gwen! Haha yep I quit right at girl scout. I was like ummm..that''s enough. The girls in my troop drove me nuts and well..camping to me meant staying at a non-oceanfront hotel or lacking a hair dryer. I was not interested in the whole going camping and doing ''real'' girl scout type things. I was like that movie Troop Beverly Hills or whatever, have you seen it?

Hahah, I think I have seen it! I know exactly what you mean about camping--I don''t consider myself a frou-frou girly girl by ANY stretch of the imagination in real life (I almost never blow dry my hair and wear the bare minimum of make-up and don''t especially like pink) but when it comes to the idea of camping (I''ve never been), it''s like all my inner girliness comes out! My brother Mike loves to camp and he wanted me to go with him, and I would''ve been fine trying it out (I''ve never been) IF we''d be within walking distance of a) a shower and b) a bathroom. I HATE feeling dirty and greasy, so I would definitely want to be able to shower (he goes away for long weekends and just ties a rag around his head! No bathing of any kind, eww!) and, I''m sorry, I just cannot see myself squatting down in some bushes! That''s probably a TMI visual, but seriously! And my brother''s idea of camping is hiking at least 5+ miles (I think last time he went it was 12) away from any campsites that have the luxuries of bathrooms and showers, so this is why I have never been camping.
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Haha I am caught in-between girly girl and non-girly girl. It''s so confusing!! I don''t regularly wear make-up, but I love make-up. Most of the time I was my hair and don''t style it, but I can''t imagine not at least having the hairdryer. Confusing, right? I love handbags, shoes, and nerdy things! I think that''s why FI loves me probably because I am girly..but not too girly. But I do
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pink. Oh and I am sorry your Grandfather died so young. I really do feel like 57 is young. No it''s as young as say 15, but it is still young nowadays. I lost my grandpa at about 59, and it was very hard. So I know how you feel as much as I can. Anyway enough sad stuff. WHAT IS UP WITH THE MASTER''S DATE??!!? Is she trying to torture you? Shes crazzzzzy!!
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Date: 6/27/2008 1:14:45 AM
Author: SarahLovesJS
Haha I am caught in-between girly girl and non-girly girl. It''s so confusing!! I don''t regularly wear make-up, but I love make-up. Most of the time I was my hair and don''t style it, but I can''t imagine not at least having the hairdryer. Confusing, right? I love handbags, shoes, and nerdy things! I think that''s why FI loves me probably because I am girly..but not too girly. But I do
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pink. Oh and I am sorry your Grandfather died so young. I really do feel like 57 is young. No it''s as young as say 15, but it is still young nowadays. I lost my grandpa at about 59, and it was very hard. So I know how you feel as much as I can. Anyway enough sad stuff. WHAT IS UP WITH THE MASTER''S DATE??!!? Is she trying to torture you? Shes crazzzzzy!!
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Hahaha, you *are* confusing, Sarah! In a good way, though! I think you are a fascinating mix of girly and non-girly things! I tend to think of myself as kind of a tomboy, so J has taken to pointing out all the girly things I do or like, so now I think maybe I am a bit like you--a little bit of this, and a little bit of that! Keeps life interesting, right?
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Yeah, I think my supervisor IS trying to torture me. I''ve basically devised my own plan though (which I should put in my signature too)--she will be out of the country after the 4th, so I won''t have any further feedback from her (and she won''t have email, so no last-minute questions either), BUT she cannot FORCE me to submit on the 4th. So I am going to finish up in my own time and submit on the 11th, which is still early (since the official deadline is the 14th at 4pm), but it will be done by then anyway, and I want J to pick me up and get me OUT OF HERE ASAP!!!! So, I thought that was a good compromise. And! She''ll never know about it, since she''ll be gone!
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I''m enjoying reading your story Gwen. Pretty fascinating stuff.

So what is the deal with your thesis dates jumping around like bunnies?
 
Date: 6/27/2008 12:33:22 PM
Author: FrekeChild
I''m enjoying reading your story Gwen. Pretty fascinating stuff.
Hahahahah! I am so totally not fascinating. I keep thinking of things in my head saying, "Well, THIS amuses me, but it''s really pretty boring" but then posting it anyway. You''re sweet to say so, though.
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So what is the deal with your thesis dates jumping around like bunnies?
My supervisor likes to toy with my emotions!
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No, seriously. The actual, official date of submission is July 14th (a Monday), at precisely 4pm. If it''s turned in at 4:01pm, you get a 0. So my original plan was to turn it in around noon on the 14th. My supervisor asked when I was submitting, and I told her around noon on the 14th. She kinda wigged out, and said something along the lines of, "OHMYGOODNESSHAVEWETAUGHTYOUNOTHINGTHISYEAR?!" I replied with something highly unintelligent, like, "...bwa?" She went on to say something about how things always go wrong and to never leave things to the last minutes, etc.etc.etc. So I said, "Ok, then maybe the 11th?" (The next earliest date to turn it in, since the faculty offices are closed on the weekends.) She said, "No, I want it in on the 6th. I will be out of the country starting the next day, so I want it completed before then. If it is complete, you may as well turn it in, so now your deadline is the 6th."

Meanwhile, this SAME DAY she''s told me that the level of stress I''ve been going through (I''ve been physically ill for the past 3 months, not able to eat any food for almost 2 months because I would get sick immediately after, and it''s all been due to stress apparently) is showing in my work, and that if I keep writing like this, I will probably fail. Not just the thesis, the WHOLE DEGREE. Because this thesis is worth 80% of my total grade for the entire degree. So, she tells me I might fail if I don''t get my writing back on track, says she wants it completed a week early, and then tells me to RELAX. Riiiiiiight! Because everything she just told me REALLY made me feel RELAXED!
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Anyway, I met with her on Monday, and asked her if she was still leaving on the 7th (with my deadline being the 6th). She said no, now she was leaving on the 5th, so she wanted it by the 4th. I started to argue with her by saying, "That''s ten DAYS before it''s actually due..." and she said, "I know, but I want it done before I leave." Instead of arguing, I just said, "Yup, sure," because, really, if she''s out of the country...how will she know when I''ve turned it in?
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So, it''s back to the 11th, unofficially! I have good motivation to have it done by then, since James'' dad turns 65 that weekend and there''s going to be a HUGE party on Sunday the 13th for him to celebrate, and his mom had said to me, "Are you going to be at the party? The WHOLE FAMILY will be here for it, so you have to be too, since you''re part of the family too!" So I will submit on the 11th, James will drive down to pick me and all my stuff up, and then we will get the heck outta Dodge and I will be free free FREE of Cambridge!!!!!!!
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...unless I fail my thesis and have to go and defend it in a Viva in September, but I hope that doesn''t happen.
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Lol. No offense but your advisor sounds like a crackhead. This date! No, this date! No, this date!

Yeesh.

So how does the thesis thing work over there anyway? BF had to write his thesis (about 70 pages) and then turn it in for revisions about 20 times (not joking) and then finally when he got it CLOSE to what he wanted, he had to turn it in to all 4 profs on his committee, they had to make their adjustments, give it back to him, and then he had to revise it once more, and then he turned it in officially about two weeks before he had to defend it. THEN had had to bring food (I don''t think it''s necessary, but it seems to be tradition) and spend 2 hours defending it to all members of his committee, and then they decided what revisions he had to make in order to have it *pass*. Which is ridiculous, because they were minor. "Pass pending on revisions" is total BS in my book.

Had to go squish a spider.

Anyway, it sounds like you guys have an *easier* time of it? I think I need it explained more.

Please? (That is, if it isn''t keep you from writing!)
 
Date: 6/27/2008 2:34:22 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Lol. No offense but your advisor sounds like a crackhead. This date! No, this date! No, this date!


Yeesh.
Yeah. In general she''s been nice, but recently it''s like her brain''s gone on vacation and just sort of fizzled out on me.

So how does the thesis thing work over there anyway? BF had to write his thesis (about 70 pages) and then turn it in for revisions about 20 times (not joking) and then finally when he got it CLOSE to what he wanted, he had to turn it in to all 4 profs on his committee, they had to make their adjustments, give it back to him, and then he had to revise it once more, and then he turned it in officially about two weeks before he had to defend it. THEN had had to bring food (I don''t think it''s necessary, but it seems to be tradition) and spend 2 hours defending it to all members of his committee, and then they decided what revisions he had to make in order to have it *pass*. Which is ridiculous, because they were minor. ''Pass pending on revisions'' is total BS in my book.
Well, here''s how it was presented to me. In some ways it''s easier, and in some ways it''s just pure hell from the pressure.

Degree started officially at the beginning of October. 1st essay (7000 words) was supposed to be a literature review on the general field chosen for the thesis. (Not allowed to copy & paste anything from that essay to the thesis, but it''s meant to familiarize ourselves with what''s out there.)

November/December: initial planning stages for research project/data collection, after submitting essay 1 on November 30th.

January/February/March: composed research questions, designed semi-structured interview schedule and hypothetical case, wrote essay 2 (7000 words) on methodology chosen for research project

April: conducted research, composed research diary, completed full transcripts of interviews (over 100 pages, typed, single-spaced!! took forrrrevvvvver!!!
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)

May/June: write rough draft of 20,000 word thesis, submit individual chapters for initial revisions, with full final draft due at 10am on June 30th (EEEEEEK).

June 30th 10:01-July 3rd: RELAX!!!! Oh, and go to my new school''s new student orientation (but that''s not for my degree
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).

July 3rd: meet with supervisor for the last time, go over her notes on the entire draft (now at 95 pages), then possibly cry at how much there is to do.

July 3rd-10th: make final revisions, then print it out and get it bound (all costs mucho money, they charge us to print out each page!)

July 11th: SUBMIT. Then leave!

If we are "borderline passing" (meaning if we have failed one of the essays or the thesis), we will be notified by the end of August that we will need to participate in a Viva, which would take place sometime in the first half of September, where we''d have to defend our thesis as well as answer any questions the panel would pose to use to demonstrate we have an adequate knowledge of the field. We do NOT have to do this unless we are in danger of failing, though. We also do not have to defend our ethical issues to a board--we have an ethics form which we have gone over with our supervisors prior to the submission of our thesis, and a copy of that form is included in the appendices.

So, the fact that I won''t necessarily HAVE to do a Viva or stand up in front of a panel to discuss the ethics of my study does make it easier, but I also don''t have a bunch of revisions to do, which I honestly would LOVE to have the time for. Everything is so crunched for time that it makes it so so so so stressful.

Had to go squish a spider.
Awesome! James will be happy. He hates spiders. Squeals like a girl and runs out of the room whenever he sees one. Once, when he was sitting at his computer chair, with his feet propped up against the wall, one popped out of nowhere and scared the pants off him so much that he fell out of his chair! Hahaha...oh, he''s so cute.
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Anyway, it sounds like you guys have an *easier* time of it? I think I need it explained more.


Please? (That is, if it isn''t keep you from writing!)
Oh, don''t worry about the ''keeping me from writing'' thing--either it''s on and I''m working away, or it''s off and I''m not at all. My brain is so totally fried that I have just been drooling at my paper, not writing anything, so don''t worry about that.
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Sounds like my version of hell, to be quite honest. I suck at writing papers in general (I''m long winded when I''m uber familiar with what I''m talking about or I like it. But with school stuff it''s totally different.

So what''s your topic? Did you get to pick your own or is it a more generalized thing?
 
Date: 6/27/2008 3:02:07 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Sounds like my version of hell, to be quite honest. I suck at writing papers in general (I''m long winded when I''m uber familiar with what I''m talking about or I like it. But with school stuff it''s totally different.


So what''s your topic? Did you get to pick your own or is it a more generalized thing?
It is rather hellish, I have to agree. People said at the beginning of the year that anyone who "survives" my course is essentially guaranteed to get into the PhD program here (not with funding, mind--that''s much harder to get, but just a place if you want it). I didn''t realize they meant "survive" quite so literally--I''m one of about a dozen people I know who''ve gotten really ill from all the stress, and we''ve never had these problems before! Just here. People have asked me repeatedly if I applied to the PhD program. Ha! Not on your LIFE.
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My topic is teacher perceptions of diversity and inclusive education in the classroom. I interviewed a dozen elementary school teachers in Maryland to find out their opinions of inclusion, how they felt different types of diversity affected what happened in the classroom (between students, what they learned, how they learned, anything) and gave them a short paragraph describing a hypothetical student I based off of a few kids I knew with something called sensory processing disorder (about 70% of people with autism have this, as well as others who have nothing else going on with them--it''s basically when someone''s nervous system is on an emergency level all the time, freaking out, and I originally wanted to do my study on that but the project I had designed was too big for an MPhil project, was told to do it as a PhD project). Anyway, through their responses, I got an idea of how teachers use inclusive practices, and where they draw the line (if they do) to say, "Most students can be included in the mainstream classrooms, EXCEPT XYZ..." It was enlightening in a rather depressing way, because people weren''t as open and willing to accept students as I''d thought they might be. They love the idea of it, but don''t want to have to do it themselves.
 
Very interesting. Are you going to try to publish it anywhere?

BFs was all about some criminology topic-I can''t even remember the dang title because it was like 2 sentences long. If I find it later I''ll type it up for you. But it was SO BORING. He''s a very technical writer and the topic wasn''t interesting to me either, but he used me as his editor anyway. You couldn''t pay me enough to write that long about that stuff. Anyway, he hasn''t gotten it published yet, everywhere that thinks they might want it, also wants it to be no longer than 20 pages. Most of the time, 10-15 pages. Um. Yeah. I can''t tell you how many times he''s had to edit it AFTER he already turned it in. I would have given up about 20 times since then. I don''t know how he does it.

Let me go see if I can find it...
 
Ok, ok, here we go:

Disorganization, Conflict, and Organizational Characteristics: What are the Structural Correlates of Violence Against Police Officers?

It''s got pages upon pages of numbers and statistics in it.
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I don''t know how you guys do it.
 
Hahaha, honestly, I don''t think I will ever try to get published. I HATE editing, and this paper will be about 100 pages when it''s done. Educational journals are about the same, where they''d want it about 10-15 pages long, and there is NO WAY I want to spend my time whittling it down to about 1/10 what it is now so I can go through the possible heartbreak of getting turned down for publication! My supervisor says everyone in my class "owes it to the field" to publish, but....bleh. Maybe eventually, when I don''t despise the very sight of my paper.
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Your BF''s thesis title is a bit intriguing to me, because I have no idea what sorts of organizational characteristics he is talking about in relation to violence against police officers! I am sure this is because I know nothing about his field, but still! I kinda like the topics that make me say, "What on earth does that even MEAN?!" ...which, sadly, is something I say a lot!
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No worries! The only reason I *kind of* know what it all means, is because a)I''ve read it and b)I''ve taken 1 criminology class and my current classical soc. theory class. Otherwise, I''d be like, WTH does that mean right along with you! Actually, before I took those classes, it was definitely like that.

But for sure worth a giggle or two. Sociology is fascinating and boring all at the same time.

As for owing it to your field to publish-I really do think your prof needs to get her head out of her bum. I actually had an interview with my dad that I wrote up for a marriage and family soc. course and my teacher wanted me to rewrite it and publish it, and I was like, "H3llz to the nah!" (That was my ghetto impression.) I hate editing and revising papers too. Heck, I could be spending all that time on PS, and it''d be so much more worthwhile!

Anyway. What''s the best date you and J have ever been on?
 
Gwen she is nuts!!
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But at least you get to submit it a bit later than the fourth.
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I bet you are excited to see J soon it will be awesome. What do y''all plan to do after you submit your master''s, how will you celebrate? I bet he''ll have something special planned! He is a sweetie.
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Date: 6/27/2008 3:56:43 PM
Author: FrekeChild
No worries! The only reason I *kind of* know what it all means, is because a)I''ve read it and b)I''ve taken 1 criminology class and my current classical soc. theory class. Otherwise, I''d be like, WTH does that mean right along with you! Actually, before I took those classes, it was definitely like that.


But for sure worth a giggle or two. Sociology is fascinating and boring all at the same time.


As for owing it to your field to publish-I really do think your prof needs to get her head out of her bum. I actually had an interview with my dad that I wrote up for a marriage and family soc. course and my teacher wanted me to rewrite it and publish it, and I was like, ''H3llz to the nah!'' (That was my ghetto impression.) I hate editing and revising papers too. Heck, I could be spending all that time on PS, and it''d be so much more worthwhile!
Hahaha, I love the ghetto lingo! When I was in college, I was friends with the big black guy (looked like a football player, was actually a bassoonist) named Eddie who grew up in this ghetto area outside of Washington D.C. and he taught me ghetto speak and I taught him how to buy good presents for his girlfriend. It was a great trade off!

Which reminds me! I have a great bling story associated with Eddie. We were in the mall, looking for something for him to get his girlfriend for their anniversary, and he always always always brought me along with him to go shopping to make sure she was impressed (which I thought was very sweet). Anyway, as a trade off, anytime we''d walk past a jewelry store, I''d make him stop so I could look at the stuff in the cases. Most of the time he''d wait outside, but one time he followed me in and wanted to know what I was looking at. I always made a beeline straight for the engagement rings because I''ve been in love with diamonds since I was a teenager, and so I started showing Eddie the styles I liked best. He was like, "Yeah, you like that one, not that one over there?" and got into the browsing. The sales associate came over and asked how we were doing and if we wanted any help or anything, and I just smiled and said we were fine, and then the sales associate says, "If you want, I can just hold the gentleman''s credit card until you''re ready..." and Eddie starts pulling out his wallet to hand it over!!! I got *THE* biggest grin on my face and just stared at him, grinning like an idiot, until he realized what he was doing, snapped out of his trance with his credit card halfway extended out to the sales associate (who immediately looked crestfallen once he retracted it
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), and then he looked at me like I''d bewitched him and said, "What? Girl, how da hell did you just do that?! L would be PISSED if I got her some bracelet but bought you an engagement ring!" I couldn''t stop laughing for the next hour.
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Anyway, he''s mah boy and I still let the ghetto-speak out every now and then (oh it''s REALLY fun to do it randomly here in England!). Last time I heard from him, he and the girlfriend had gotten married and he had gotten a job playing bassoon professionally and wanted a Mazda Miata but he was too tall for it. Broke his heart!


Anyway. What''s the best date you and J have ever been on?
Ooooh, that''s tricky. There have been some truly amazing moments which aren''t really ''dates'' but were really really special to me. Since we''ve been in an international LDR for almost our whole time together, things like him spending a long weekend with my grandmother last April before she passed away in July are totally precious to me, but not really a ''date.'' Also, when I was visiting him a couple of weeks ago, we made some pub food, curled up on the couch and watched the Euro Cup match and it was such a perfect night--totally normal sort of thing for non-LDR couples, but for us it was so, so great.
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I think my favourite typical ''date'' would be the day we spent in York, two Thanksgivings ago. We went to Betty''s tearoom, where I was spoiled rotten with the most amazing afternoon cream tea, and then we walked around York (which is SO beautiful), toured Yorkminster Cathedral and wandered around the little streets of the city. On the train back, I fell asleep against J''s shoulder while he stroked my hair and kissed my forehead. It was such a beautiful day.
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Date: 6/27/2008 4:07:11 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS
Gwen she is nuts!!
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But at least you get to submit it a bit later than the fourth.
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I bet you are excited to see J soon it will be awesome. What do y''all plan to do after you submit your master''s, how will you celebrate? I bet he''ll have something special planned! He is a sweetie.
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Hahah, yeah, she is a bit bonkers. She is totally a perfectionist and did the same degree as me but with a scary/creepy supervisor who never helped her, so I think she expects me to be as brilliant and awesome as she is, and I''m just not! I can''t do this on my own, in lightning speed, with no additional help! Anyway, I think it will end up ok...at least I hope so! She will give me her feedback in the morning on the 3rd, and then I''ll have a week to make the last changes and then TURN THE *$@)!£*% IN!

After I submit my thesis, J is going to pick me up, we''ll move my stuff out and into his car, and we''ll drive up to his house. Then my plan is to sleeeeeeeeeeep all the next day (the 12th) and then party with his fam on the 13th, for his dad''s birthday. I suspect he will bake me another cake (a mint and chocolate one, perhaps?
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) but I really don''t know if he''s thought about any celebrations. On the one hand, I feel like I will want to do SOMEthing to celebrate, but on the other, I feel like just turning it in will be celebration enough, so we will have to see what happens. You know if he surprises me with something, I will let you guys know.
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That has been everyone who has finished their thesis defense''s complaint-that it''s totally anti-climatic.

I love this line: "L would be PISSED if I got her some bracelet but bought you an engagement ring!"

LMAO. I want to meet Eddie! And it''s too bad about the Miata. I''ve heard that complaint from my cousin-who is 6''0...
 
Date: 6/27/2008 4:38:20 PM
Author: FrekeChild
That has been everyone who has finished their thesis defense''s complaint-that it''s totally anti-climatic.
Yeah, the big celebration is that I''ll be able to eat normal food again (I hope), because my body won''t be in turmoil from all the stress I''ve been going through! WOoooOooHoooOOo!
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I love this line: ''L would be PISSED if I got her some bracelet but bought you an engagement ring!''


LMAO. I want to meet Eddie! And it''s too bad about the Miata. I''ve heard that complaint from my cousin-who is 6''0...
Hehe, Eddie is freakin'' awesome. And it was so sad about the Miata! After he got his job (had the job before he got engaged and married, I think I listed it in the wrong order before), he told me what he was going to do with his first paycheck was put a down payment on a Miata. So in preparation for it, he went to go test drive one. Dude''s 6''6". He couldn''t turn the freakin'' steering wheel because his knees were jammed so hard up again it, even with the seat moved all the way back. There was just no way. He was so heartbroken! Poor guy. I think he ended up with a Mazda 626 instead. Not quite as sporty and flashy, but still fun to drive and attractive.
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Yeah. Miatas are more my size I''m afraid. My car is actually pretty small, and if I lean forwards I''ll hit my head on the roof of the car...but my dad can drive it (around 6''2) IF he pushes the front seat all the way back-so that it''s literally an inch in front of the back seat. I mean, might as well have just made it a two seater. Ya know?

So what is all this business about you getting a job and stuff now? What''s going on with all that?
 
Date: 6/27/2008 6:47:56 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Yeah. Miatas are more my size I''m afraid. My car is actually pretty small, and if I lean forwards I''ll hit my head on the roof of the car...but my dad can drive it (around 6''2) IF he pushes the front seat all the way back-so that it''s literally an inch in front of the back seat. I mean, might as well have just made it a two seater. Ya know?


So what is all this business about you getting a job and stuff now? What''s going on with all that?
Sorry, I''m totally not doing my thread in any semblance of chronological order, am I?! Hahaha...oh dear.

Here''s a bit of background on the job, so you can fully appreciate the awesome impact getting it has had on me:

Ok, so for the past 3 months now, I''ve been sick (literally) with worry over all kinds of things coming up--the thesis was part of it, but not the biggest part, because I had decided to stay in England for another year to be with J. I *could* have chosen to go home, where I have a guaranteed job, but that would mean either a) J and I would get married before I was comfortable doing so (since he''d had to enter the country on a fiance visa which would make us marry within 90 days after entry), OR b) we''d have to keep doing the long-distance thing, and I am so so so so sooooooooooo tired of that.

So, I decided to stay in England, which turned out to be hugely stressful because a bunch of teacher placement agencies told me for months (since I started applying in March) that I was unqualified for anything but a teaching ASSISTANT position. With 10 years of teaching experience, and 2 degrees in education (first in instrumental music ed, second in special needs), one from Cambridge (not to be a snob, but I kinda thought that MIGHT help me be more desirable). So, with my qualifications, I was told I was unqualified to do anything but make minimum wage (essentially) working as a teaching aide, where you don''t need any education at all for the job. Not only was that a HUGE insult to my pride, but logistically it was going to make my life a financial nightmare. England is expensive, and I have student loans back in the U.S. that I will be paying off for ages still, so if I''m barely making it money-wise here, how would I be able to send money back home every month to pay my bills there? I also don''t currently have permission to work full time here--just 20 hours/week, as my student visa says. So in addition to "not being qualified," I also had to hear people tell me that they weren''t going to bother with me since the school would either have to be flexible with my working hours until I could get full-time work permission (there is a work visa granted to all students graduating from English universities, called the International Graduates Scheme program, BUT they need solid proof from your uni that you have in fact graduated, and my uni won''t inform me if I''ve graduated or not until September, and then the visa application takes a couple of months, which is well into the school year), or the school would have to sponsor me for a work permit, which costs them £1600. Unlikely for someone who''s ''unqualified,'' right? I was SO STRESSED OUT.

Anyway! Last week on Tuesday, this woman calls me from a teaching agency and she is thrilled to bits about me and my C.V./resume. She said she knew that this one school would absolutely LOVE me because she knows the administration very well and knows that I''m just what they''re looking for, and asks if I would be willing to go to an interview on Friday? I said sure, of course, and went down and taught a one-hour English lesson to a class of 11 13-year-olds in a special needs secondary school in NW London. It was *so* much fun. I had them listen to some snippets of music and describe their feelings and any images or colours or settings that came to mind--then I had them think of an object and describe it on paper, and come up to the class to share it with the other students to see if we could guess what it was, so it was like a riddle. They had so much fun with it, and all the students were involved, which I later learned wasn''t normal for them. Anyway, after the interview, the deputy head teacher (aka vice principal) asked me to wait in her office while she interviewed the kids to see how I did. They apparently gave me a glowing review, and the deputy head came back to tell me all of their comments and said that I just blew everyone out of the water and that the feedback I got doesn''t get any better, so would I like the job? WOULD I LIKE THE JOB?!

So, yeah, I said I''d love the job (it''s teaching music at a special needs school! It''s like my dream job!), but obviously I had to talk it over with J and I needed to have some idea of salary to make sure we could afford to live and stuff. They are willing to pay the £1600 to get me a work visa so I can start the school year like a normal teacher (wooo!). The salary they mentioned is fine (about twice what the teaching assistants make), the location is great, the kids are wonderful, the staff seems fabulous, and they wanted ME!!!! After hearing nothing but negative crap from other teaching agencies, it felt SO SO GOOD to be able to get a teaching job. May sound like not that big an accomplishment, but I cried so many times, feeling like this degree would end up being a waste of money, time and energy, and that made me feel positively wretched. But now I feel vindicated!!! I got my job, I got my work permit (well, it''s in the process, but still), I get to live with J AND I won''t go bankrupt in the process!!!!!
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So, yeah, it was kind of a huge deal for me to get this job. Makes me a MUCH happier, less stressed out person.
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YAY! That is so wonderful!!!I remember reading (but perhaps not commenting on-I lurk a lot, believe it or not) your threads about how you were stressed out and giving yourself stomach problems because of it, and everything else that was going on-but I am SO relieved that it sounds like it''s working out, and that you actually are doing what you''re trained to do! And that it works out financially as well!

So what''s going on with J? Is this job in London? Has he found or been looking for a job too?
 
Date: 6/28/2008 1:51:21 PM
Author: FrekeChild
YAY! That is so wonderful!!!I remember reading (but perhaps not commenting on-I lurk a lot, believe it or not) your threads about how you were stressed out and giving yourself stomach problems because of it, and everything else that was going on-but I am SO relieved that it sounds like it''s working out, and that you actually are doing what you''re trained to do! And that it works out financially as well!
Thank you!!!! I should be signing my contract with the school on Wednesday--I know that Tuesday they are going over all the work permit paperwork with the agency, so things are definitely on track!

So what''s going on with J? Is this job in London? Has he found or been looking for a job too?
Aye, the job''s in London--we''d been going back and forth with where we were going to live, so he''s been applying for jobs in all different places, but now that I''ve gotten this job, he''s going to only apply in London now (obviously). He doesn''t have a job yet, but I''m not too worried about it because there are lots of jobs going in London and he''s open to doing all sorts of work--even not so great stuff to do temporarily just so there''s money coming in. The ideal will be if we can find a place to live where we can live off just my salary so that his can go into savings, since we have a ring to save for, and a wedding, and the marriage paperwork that goes along with it. I don''t know if it''ll be possible since London is expensive, but we''ll be on the outskirts or not in London at all (technically) so I''m hoping we can swing it!
 
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