Grrrr..WHY don''t dealers just say what they''d pay for something??

[widget]

I''ve been wondering this for some time, and I find it SO IRRITATING!!!!

I''ve decided to sell an old watch. I called a respected dealer, and because he said on his website he needs to know what a person wants for an item, I (a bit optimisticly I admit) named a bit more than I paid for it years ago.

His response: "You''re asking WAY too much for it."

I write back: "Well, I''m definitely going to sell it, but with lowered expectations. Thanks for your time."

Two days pass and he writes: "Let me know when you''ve come up with a revised price."

HE''S THE EXPERT, I''m not! Why doesn''t he just tell me what he''ll pay for it???? Grrrr

Any comments?

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[FireGoddess]

That would make me upset too. They must think you''ll come up with a price that is less than they would offer you, so they try to wait. I''d hold firm and write back, ''let me know when you come up with a reasonable offer.'' They should know more about reasonable prices, and I would make them offer me a starting price.

 

[widget]

Thanks, FG...glad to hear someone else finds this maddening. I guess it''s just part of the game.

I''m going to Florida soon, maybe I can get an offer or two there. Then I can check back and see if he can do better..

At least I know he''s interested...

hmmph
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[lumpkin]

Hmmmmm. I can see it the other way, too. If I wanted to buy something, I''d want to know the asking price. And if it was more than I wanted to pay, I''d say so. BUT, then I''d counter offer. I don''t know why the dealer didn''t do that.

I think I might take it and have it appraised and find out what the secondary market value on the watch is, and then sell it for that price.

Good luck on your sale, Widget.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Widget, this drive me crazy too!!!

And right now I''m having a similar experience on the other (i.e., buying) side of the transaction with my yellow diamond. PLEASE, just tell me how much something is and I will decide if it''s a price that willing to pay. I just HATE it when I go to a diamond guy and say I''m looking for X and he says "how much are you willing to spend?" Tell me HOW MUCH it would cost to get the X thing I just asked for dammit!!!

 

[Beacon]

I would just ask him - "make me an offer." He is fooling around with you I think.

Have you ever taken it to one of the auction houses to get them to appraise it''s auction value? They''ll do it for free. That would provide you a baseline at least. Butterfield is closest to you and very easy to deal with.

You can also run the comparables through Ebay, using their advanced search, completed listings function. Pretty much everything on earth has passed through ebay at one point and you can get a good indication of market value that way.

You could also tell your friendly dealer that since he has given you no indication of value you have no choice but to seek other sources. That might get him to bring forth a proposal.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 5/14/2007 1:27:07 PM
Author:widget
I''ve been wondering this for some time, and I find it SO IRRITATING!!!!

I''ve decided to sell an old watch. I called a respected dealer, and because he said on his website he needs to know what a person wants for an item, I (a bit optimisticly I admit) named a bit more than I paid for it years ago.

His response: ''You''re asking WAY too much for it.''

I write back: ''Well, I''m definitely going to sell it, but with lowered expectations. Thanks for your time.''

Two days pass and he writes: ''Let me know when you''ve come up with a revised price.''

HE''S THE EXPERT, I''m not! Why doesn''t he just tell me what he''ll pay for it???? Grrrr

Any comments?

widget

same reason you don''t want to tell him what you want for it? Him waiting for you to give him a realistic price for the watch is just the other side of the coin from you giving him an inflated price for the watch. Sure, he''s the expert.... but you''re the one holding the watch! You both are in positions of different power and it sounds like a stalemate!

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 5/14/2007 2:14:39 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

same reason you don't want to tell him what you want for it? Him waiting for you to give him a realistic price for the watch is just the other side of the coin from you giving him an inflated price for the watch. Sure, he's the expert.... but you're the one holding the watch! You both are in positions of different power and it sounds like a stalemate!

Yes, but he IS the one who better knows the resale value of the watch. Nobody wants to get screwed here. He also has an idea of what he can resell it for. If he won't give a range of price, I'd go to someone who will.

 

[widget]

I''m with FG on this one, Cehra...he''s the one who knows the market, and what his margin needs to be...

Beacon...great idea checking out Ebay, completed sales. Thanks!

I actually found one currently listed that is quite similar to mine. I''m going to watch it. Hmm he was right...I DID name way too high a price!

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[Madam Bijoux]

Hi, Widget. Appraisers have told me that when you get an item appraised you should get one amount as the insurance replacement value and another amount as the resale value. If you're selling the item, the resale value is usually 50 to 60% of the replacement value. If you're selling it to a dealer, you'll probably have to settle for less than half of the resale value on the appraisal. (Dealers make their living by playing hardball!) If you haven't gotten a recent appraisal, it might be a good idea to get one or to visit a few dealers to get a range of price quotes.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 5/14/2007 2:54:12 PM
Author: widget
I''m with FG on this one, Cehra...he''s the one who knows the market, and what his margin needs to be...

Beacon...great idea checking out Ebay, completed sales. Thanks!

I actually found one currently listed that is quite similar to mine. I''m going to watch it. Hmm he was right...I DID name way too high a price!

widget

maybe he thought he would offend you with his more realistic amount and thought it best to have you come back to him when you understood what it was worth?

 

[widget]

Date: 5/14/2007 3:15:58 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

maybe he thought he would offend you with his more realistic amount and thought it best to have you come back to him when you understood what it was worth?

Now THAT'S a definite possibility! (But I'd rather he just go ahead and offend me and get it over with so we could get on with it...)

widget

 

[Mara]

Date: 5/14/2007 2:14:39 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 5/14/2007 1:27:07 PM
Author:widget
I''ve been wondering this for some time, and I find it SO IRRITATING!!!!

I''ve decided to sell an old watch. I called a respected dealer, and because he said on his website he needs to know what a person wants for an item, I (a bit optimisticly I admit) named a bit more than I paid for it years ago.

His response: ''You''re asking WAY too much for it.''

I write back: ''Well, I''m definitely going to sell it, but with lowered expectations. Thanks for your time.''

Two days pass and he writes: ''Let me know when you''ve come up with a revised price.''

HE''S THE EXPERT, I''m not! Why doesn''t he just tell me what he''ll pay for it???? Grrrr

Any comments?

widget

same reason you don''t want to tell him what you want for it? :D Him waiting for you to give him a realistic price for the watch is just the other side of the coin from you giving him an inflated price for the watch. Sure, he''s the expert.... but you''re the one holding the watch! You both are in positions of different power and it sounds like a stalemate!

actually she told him what she wanted for it. he said that was too much. he SHOULD have counter offered and said why. he is the expert and i would have said ''you''re asking way too much for it, here is what i believe it can reasonably sell for. i want X amount of that so i''ll give you Y...deal?''

it would totally bug me too widget. good luck selling!

 

[crown1]

i have played in the antique game some and this is a common complaint. i have read many articles on this topic. it seems that one of the common answers to this is "i don't want to put a price on someone else's goods". there are probably as many answers as there are dealers.

 

[Allisonfaye]

I had a similar maddening experience. I wanted to put my wedding set on consignment with the store who had sold it to me. I was literally swearing at the guy by the end. I am not a person who swears. He had first implied to me that I would get $x for it, then when I actually wanted to put it in his window, he backpedaled bigtime. He kept asking me what I would take for it. I kept saying, what do you think I can get? He wouldn''t answer so I named a high price (not much higher than he had implied) as a starting point. He wouldn''t even tell me how much they would charge me to sell it. He wanted me to name a price to sell it to him (which would be low) and then pocket all of the difference. I would never have even known how much they sold it for. Well, then WTF is the point of consigning it? He wanted all the upside and I would take all of the risk. He was a total snake. The doubletalk was incredible. I was amazed he got away with that crap. A few months later, the store, which was in the Chicago jewelry district, went belly up.

 

[Beacon]

AF - I have seen jewelers who operate their consignment like you described and it does not bother me. My attitude is, hey, if I get the price I expected how much do I care what he sold it for? After all, different vendors will get different prices for the same goods depending on where they are, who their clients are and how effective they are as sales people. So I don''t think it is such a bad deal provided you negotiate what you are supposed to get for your item and you do in fact get it.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Allisonfaye, was this store by any chance Prudential?

 

[chiefneil]

Date: 5/14/2007 5:00:39 PM
Author: Allisonfaye
I had a similar maddening experience. I wanted to put my wedding set on consignment with the store who had sold it to me. I was literally swearing at the guy by the end. I am not a person who swears. He had first implied to me that I would get $x for it, then when I actually wanted to put it in his window, he backpedaled bigtime. He kept asking me what I would take for it. I kept saying, what do you think I can get? He wouldn''t answer so I named a high price (not much higher than he had implied) as a starting point. He wouldn''t even tell me how much they would charge me to sell it. He wanted me to name a price to sell it to him (which would be low) and then pocket all of the difference. I would never have even known how much they sold it for. Well, then WTF is the point of consigning it? He wanted all the upside and I would take all of the risk. He was a total snake. The doubletalk was incredible. I was amazed he got away with that crap. A few months later, the store, which was in the Chicago jewelry district, went belly up.

My SIL used to create and sell jewelry and art on consignment. The store she worked with was pretty straightforward. They''d tell her what they could sell it for, and their cut was about 40%, IIRC. I always thought that was how consignment worked - the store got a fixed percentage of the selling price so they''d try to get you the best price possible. That way it''s a win-win for both sides, and if you as the owner didn''t like the price the dealer wanted to list it at, you were free to try to get a better price elsewhere.

 

[fire&ice]

Prices on the secondary market are not static. What one person could get for an object is not what another could get. Also, it has to do with plugs in inventory (i.e. I want it only if I can get it cheap as it will take a long time to sell), how many sellers are willing to sell to this person, & so many other variables.

I can tell you - RARELY do I ever make an offer on something that is not in a competitive bid situation. The liability, ALONE, is staggering. Honestly, it really goes back to x doesn''t equal y on the secondary/antique type market. I may make 400% on one object and 10% on another. Often, you just never know. It''s the owner of the object responsibilty to come up with a price that they want to sell at.

I know it is frustrating. But, you have to see the other side. Other than what I have mentioned above, it can be frustrating for the "expert" because your knowledge IS what you make your money on. No one disputes an accountant charging for their years of learing their craft. But, to each his own on how much an antique dealer, etc mark up SHOULD be. Many don''t think 100% markup is fair. That is what MOST retailers mark up is. Time and Time again, people who are selling their items do not think that is fair. Some even find it offensive and insulting.

So, there you have where the qagmire begins. My suggestion is to either stick with your guns or counter back to him & hold firm. Some dealers do play a game. Some don''t. Again, it''s not a static market in any way shape or form.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 5/14/2007 5:00:39 PM
Author: Allisonfaye
I wanted to put my wedding set on consignment

allison, are you talking about your Michael B set?

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 5/15/2007 9:23:40 AM
Author: fire&ice
It''s the owner of the object responsibilty to come up with a price that they want to sell at.

I agree with the above statement 100%

BUT and this is the the most important point for me

She DID come up with a price . . . she DID and he turned it down, said it was too much, at this point it only makes sense there be a counter offer, correct or is it the owners responsibility to keep making offers until an offer sticks?

She made an offer, he turned it down, she left, he contacted her and asked about it again . . . here is where I agree with widget that it is annoying, he is interested obviously but isn''t willing to put his offer on the table. I would be annoyed too.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 5/15/2007 1:54:39 PM
Author: hikerchick

Date: 5/15/2007 9:23:40 AM
Author: fire&ice
It''s the owner of the object responsibilty to come up with a price that they want to sell at.

I agree with the above statement 100%

BUT and this is the the most important point for me

She DID come up with a price . . . she DID and he turned it down, said it was too much, at this point it only makes sense there be a counter offer, correct or is it the owners responsibility to keep making offers until an offer sticks?

She made an offer, he turned it down, she left, he contacted her and asked about it again . . . here is where I agree with widget that it is annoying, he is interested obviously but isn''t willing to put his offer on the table. I would be annoyed too.

There may be a number of reasons why he didn''t counter. One, Widget''s orginal price may indeed be way off. In that case, he wants her to sit with it a while & not insult her. Countering right away can be - well - counter productive.

Widget is pretty straight forward - but this guy doesn''t know that. He could counter only for her to shop the price with LOTS of other dealers. That does two things - 1. if it is not *that* desireable for inventory, it "shop wears" the piece thus making it less desireable & he is held to his counter. Or, if desireable, could create a bidding war - all on the springboard of the counter. Neither is a desirable situation. And, rarely does one buy something "used" that doesn''t need some sort of "restoration/cleaning/etc".

I could go on and on about this issue. I can remember one time I wanted to be fair in making an offer. For example with nice small numbers, the owner thought it was worth $1.00. I made an offer of $10.00. Well - because it was worth FAR more than what they thought - they now thought it was worth $100.00. Shopped the piece to death. Sold it at a major auction - only to net less than the $10.00 offe with considerably more hassle.

I know it''s frustrating. But, just how the biz works for the dealers who have seen it all. He who speaks first usually looses. Sad, but true. It really is a different animal than the real retail world.

Good luck Widget. The internet/ebay is a powerful tool. Research your specific item.