Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist threats

[OreoRosies86]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

I'm sure there is an appeals process and maybe (likely) they will serve less time. A 20 year prison sentence would be enough of a jolt to make me seriously consider my life choices and what kind of society member I wanted to be.

By the time that guy gets out he'll be a middle aged man. His kids will be grown. Hope it was worth it.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

I'm sure there is an appeals process and maybe (likely) they will serve less time. A 20 year prison sentence would be enough of a jolt to make me seriously consider my life choices and what kind of society member I wanted to be.

By the time that guy gets out he'll be a middle aged man. His kids will be grown. Hope it was worth it.

That prison sentence will most likely be appealed.

 

[redwood66]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

I'm sure there is an appeals process and maybe (likely) they will serve less time. A 20 year prison sentence would be enough of a jolt to make me seriously consider my life choices and what kind of society member I wanted to be.

By the time that guy gets out he'll be a middle aged man. His kids will be grown. Hope it was worth it.

That prison sentence will most likely be appealed.

And whatever doesn't change on appeal will be reduced by 1/3 or 1/2 if they stay out of trouble while in.

 

[AnnaH]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

Flag and shouting bad enough, but the gun and threats are very dangerous and deserve serious legal consequences. The sentence seems long, but maybe they had criminal records.
Just silly to blame this incident on Trump.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

This sums it up nicely for me:

"To all the people on here saying the punishment was unjust. Let's be real, if it had been any other terrorist group committing these felonies you guys wouldn't bat an eye if they went away for life.... but when the terrorist look like you all of a sudden you get a soft heart."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/28/517688757/racist-assault-on-a-childs-birthday-party-yields-long-prison-terms-in-georgia

Equal punishment for equal crime, regardless of your skin color or 'motivation'.

 

[redwood66]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

I have to disagree on that comment with regard to this crime JCJ. While the crime is horrible, in relation to sentences handed down for crimes where actual physical harm - murder, manslaughter, etc., I cannot agree with the length of the sentence. Though I do know they will not actually do this much time. Sentencing needs an overhaul to be more in line with the crimes. Prisons cost billions and we are better off not housing idiots for extended sentences. Its all well and good to be glad they were sentenced but we can't then complain about how many people are in prison for assault, drugs, drug dealing, racketeering, check fraud, etc.

That said, sentencing should absolutely be equal and color blind.

 

[telephone89]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

This sums it up nicely for me:

"To all the people on here saying the punishment was unjust. Let's be real, if it had been any other terrorist group committing these felonies you guys wouldn't bat an eye if they went away for life.... but when the terrorist look like you all of a sudden you get a soft heart."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/28/517688757/racist-assault-on-a-childs-birthday-party-yields-long-prison-terms-in-georgia

Equal punishment for equal crime, regardless of your skin color or 'motivation'.

Do you not believe intent matters in crime? I think it makes a huge difference.

 

[cmd2014]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

While their acts are despicable and they deserve jail time, the punishment seems very harsh for the crime. Am I missing something? It sounds like all of their threats were verbal.

It is likely because of the shotgun that was probably brandished.

Here's what they actually did to deserve that kind of prison sentence:

“Torres, who had retrieved a shotgun from his vehicle, pointed his shotgun at the group of African American party-goers and stated he was going to kill them while his co-defendants stated that ‘the little ones can get one too,’ referring to the young children at the party,” the statement said.

Norton was accused of making similar threats. The victims said some member of Torres’ group was armed with a knife and a tire tool."

This is more than just shouting rude things while driving by and waving an offensive flag. Threatening to kill people while drunk, armed, and pointing a gun at them is a crime that is typically met with this kind of sentence. Uttering threats alone carries up to a 5 year sentence where I live. Aggravated assault (which is the offence of threatening to kill someone while brandishing a lethal weapon capable of carrying through with the threat - which counts in the eyes of the law as endangering the life of the victim) carries up to a 14 year sentence. He had 3 counts of this. I have no idea what the other charges are as we don't have similar laws here.

Maybe a way to think about this is to ask yourself if you would be asking the same question if the same threats were made in the context of a robbery? Probably not. You'd probably be saying that the person deserves to go to jail.

I'm surprised that anyone would think to compare this to Madonna talking about FANTASIZING about blowing up the White House. Thinking about something vs brandishing a lethal weapon and pointing it at people while threatening to actually kill them. It doesn't really seem like the same thing at all, right?

 

[redwood66]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

This sums it up nicely for me:

"To all the people on here saying the punishment was unjust. Let's be real, if it had been any other terrorist group committing these felonies you guys wouldn't bat an eye if they went away for life.... but when the terrorist look like you all of a sudden you get a soft heart."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/28/517688757/racist-assault-on-a-childs-birthday-party-yields-long-prison-terms-in-georgia

Equal punishment for equal crime, regardless of your skin color or 'motivation'.

Do you not believe intent matters in crime? I think it makes a huge difference.

It all depends on how the judge sees the entire case and all aggravating and/or mitigating circumstances. They take into account prior arrests/convictions also. I think the main thing that led to the increased time was the charge that they were operating as a "street gang".

 

[VRBeauty]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

I do think 20 years is too long. But I think at least three or four years of time served - given that weapons were involved - is called for. Targeting someone for harassment and intimidation based on who they are, rather than what they do, is a heinous crime. That is another face of terrorism... making people afraid to live their lives. And I'm heartened to see a judge who is determined not to let this kind of discrimination creep back in.

And I know that's a statement that deserves discussion and clarification and defending (or not... I am open to other viewpoints...) is also my swan song for as I go offline for the next week or so. Ta-ta!

 

[redwood66]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

While their acts are despicable and they deserve jail time, the punishment seems very harsh for the crime. Am I missing something? It sounds like all of their threats were verbal.

It is likely because of the shotgun that was probably brandished.

Maybe a way to think about this is to ask yourself if you would be asking the same question if the same threats were made in the context of a robbery? Probably not. You'd probably be saying that the person deserves to go to jail.

Yes I would because it will also depend on priors. Go to jail yes, but not a 20 year sentence.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

Redwood: I don't disagree with a need for sentencing overhaul at all, and that punishments should fit the crimes. I'm just tired of seeing unequal/unfair treatment for crimes based on who someone is/who they know/what their motivations are/who they targeted, especially when it comes to terrorist-type threats of violence.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

This sums it up nicely for me:

"To all the people on here saying the punishment was unjust. Let's be real, if it had been any other terrorist group committing these felonies you guys wouldn't bat an eye if they went away for life.... but when the terrorist look like you all of a sudden you get a soft heart."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/28/517688757/racist-assault-on-a-childs-birthday-party-yields-long-prison-terms-in-georgia

Equal punishment for equal crime, regardless of your skin color or 'motivation'.

Do you not believe intent matters in crime? I think it makes a huge difference.

I don't think these people were waving their flags & guns and shouting out invitations to party goers to join them for a bowl of Lucky Charms. Their 'intent' was pretty darn clear to me, and the judge, it seems. So yes, of course 'intent' matters. And 'intent' is generally pretty clear when you are communicating a 'terrorist threat', though the elements/legal tests vary from state to state. And for crimes like this, that is where I see the problem in unequal punishment. There are some crimes I feel that - regardless of where they are committed - should have the same definition and carry the same punishment. Murder, sexual assault, pedophilia are a few other examples.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

It all depends on how the judge sees the entire case and all aggravating and/or mitigating circumstances. They take into account prior arrests/convictions also. I think the main thing that led to the increased time was the charge that they were operating as a "street gang".

The one problem I see with the street gang designation is this:

Months after the attack, the "Respect the Flag" group was indicted as a street gang by a Douglas County grand jury.

If that factored into the sentencing, that seems inappropriate (legally) to charge/convict someone on something that changed about their "group" after the fact. If it's legal today to do 50 on a road, and tomorrow it changes to 40, you can't go back and give tickets to people who previously did 50. I'm not justifying the actions at all; just looking at it from a legal sense. But I have no problem with this couple having the book (and a few other things thrown at them). The only thing that stopped them from possibly pulling the trigger (IMO) was that the cops showed up and made a barrier between the party-goers and the 'gang'.

And this couple have a history of vocalizing discriminatory messages on social media as well; that speaks to character and intent leading up to this incident far more than her court-room half-azzed apology earning her sympathy from me. And their inappropriate brandishing of firearms, the threats & slurs they hurled ... She's LUCKY the family offered forgiveness. She gets plenty of time now to change "who she is" while pondering it behind bars.

Yes, I'm a hard-azz when it comes to crime, especially violent crime; I don't make any apologies for it (generally speaking - not you specifically, Red ).

 

[cmd2014]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

While their acts are despicable and they deserve jail time, the punishment seems very harsh for the crime. Am I missing something? It sounds like all of their threats were verbal.

It is likely because of the shotgun that was probably brandished.

Maybe a way to think about this is to ask yourself if you would be asking the same question if the same threats were made in the context of a robbery? Probably not. You'd probably be saying that the person deserves to go to jail.

Yes I would because it will also depend on priors. Go to jail yes, but not a 20 year sentence.

The US does have bizarrely long sentences for all sorts of crimes. Especially if you are poor and from a minority group.

Judges also have discretion about whether sentences for each conviction must be served concurrently or consecutively, which can influence the jail term. I had wondered if the sentencing in this case might have been due to their having been sentenced to consecutive sentences due to the heinousness of this crime (I would imagine that threatening the lives of children would be considered heinous). Plus, we don't have any information about these people's priors, so perhaps that did factor in as well.

On the up side (for those convicted, not necessarily for anyone else), most places have statutory release legislation where inmates are released 2/3 into their sentences unless they have done something while incarcerated to deserve to be held. They are also often given double credit for any time served while waiting for trial, so what might look like incredibly long sentences can turn into much less actual jail time. Here, this person would be facing a minimum of 14 years in jail for aggravated assault. With time served (typically 1 - 2 years before the trial) that would be down to 10 - 12 years with double time credit. With Stat release that would be a 6 - 8 year sentence in practice, with eligibility for parole at the 3 year mark (easily accomplished with evidence that remedial action has been taken in the form of participation in therapy, educational upgrading, drug/alcohol additions programming, volunteer activities inside the jail, etc.). So 5 years total for this type of offense doesn't actually seem all that unreasonable. Not sure if that is the same where you are though.

 

[redwood66]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

While their acts are despicable and they deserve jail time, the punishment seems very harsh for the crime. Am I missing something? It sounds like all of their threats were verbal.

It is likely because of the shotgun that was probably brandished.

Maybe a way to think about this is to ask yourself if you would be asking the same question if the same threats were made in the context of a robbery? Probably not. You'd probably be saying that the person deserves to go to jail.

Yes I would because it will also depend on priors. Go to jail yes, but not a 20 year sentence.

The US does have bizarrely long sentences for all sorts of crimes. Especially if you are poor and from a minority group.

Judges also have discretion about whether sentences for each conviction must be served concurrently or consecutively, which can influence the jail term. I had wondered if the sentencing in this case might have been due to their having been sentenced to consecutive sentences due to the heinousness of this crime (I would imagine that threatening the lives of children would be considered heinous). Plus, we don't have any information about these people's priors, so perhaps that did factor in as well.

On the up side (for those convicted, not necessarily for anyone else), most places have statutory release legislation where inmates are released 2/3 into their sentences unless they have done something while incarcerated to deserve to be held. They are also often given double credit for any time served while waiting for trial, so what might look like incredibly long sentences can turn into much less actual jail time. Here, this person would be facing a minimum of 14 years in jail for aggravated assault. With time served (typically 1 - 2 years before the trial) that would be down to 10 - 12 years with double time credit. With Stat release that would be a 6 - 8 year sentence in practice, with eligibility for parole at the 3 year mark (easily accomplished with evidence that remedial action has been taken in the form of participation in therapy, educational upgrading, drug/alcohol additions programming, volunteer activities inside the jail, etc.). So 5 years total for this type of offense doesn't actually seem all that unreasonable. Not sure if that is the same where you are though.

Those things all factor in yes. Sentencing is very hard for a layperson to follow in the US due to the factors you pointed out. At one point in my prior field it was my duty to analyze sentencing to ensure it was properly applied while also calculating release dates based on the information you speak of.

 

[azstonie]

Re: Georgia couple given decade(s) in prison for racist thre

If a stranger, in a public setting, points a gun at me I am going to assume they plan to shoot me. Its surprising to me that no one in that setting responded by pulling their own gun/s.