Friendship and Loyalty.

[Gypsy]

Long story short... I''ve been thinking about the different interpretations of the idea of loyalty to ones friends and wanted to get some thoughts.

I''ll put mine out there up front.

I''m not a fan of ''group think'' and don''t believe that I have to agree with someone all the time, to agree with what they say and do in order to be their freinds. In fact most of my closest friendships are what they are because at one time or another when one of us was doing something the other didn''t agree with, we felt bound, by friendship, to express our honest thoughts to give that person a different perspective while understanding that the person can take or leave the perspective/opinion without affecting the bonds of friendship. (Not obviously taken to an extreme where something like where one person thinks murder is just fine and the other disagrees and the first person happlily goes about murdering people, but you know what I mean).

I think that as in a true friendship you can be ''supportive'' without being loyal -- loyal defined as "fielty" -- which is a word derived from feudal allegiances between people of unequal status which I think is innappropriate to friendships. Rather, I think being a loyal friend implies a relationship between equals with free flowing ideas, and if you and your friend are on the different sides of an issues your friendship isn''t jeapordized because of a sense of ''disloyalty."

Anyway... just thought I''d put it out there and see what you all think.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 9/8/2009 12:49:57 PM
Author:Gypsy

I think that as in a true friendship you can be 'supportive' without being loyal -- loyal defined as 'fielty' -- which is a word derived from feudal allegiances between people of unequal status which I think is innappropriate to friendships. Rather, I think being a loyal friend implies a relationship between equals with free flowing ideas, and if you and your friend are on the different sides of an issues your friendship isn't jeapordized because of a sense of 'disloyalty.'

Anyway... just thought I'd put it out there and see what you all think.

I agree, in fact I respect people more who give me their point of view and also respect my point of view even though we don't agree. It also gives us both something to think about on why we might differ in our opinions. I never think there is a clear and cut correct answers so it is refreshing to hear it all

 

[Rock_of_Love]

I have a really tight knit group of girlfriends that I''ve known since childhood and teenage years. I think our differences is part of what keeps our relationship growing and strong. Think of how annoying conversations would be if everyone just agreed with everything. Sometimes we express our own opinions to a point that people ask if we are sisters or family...apparently meaning politeness is out the door and you are allowed to treat family like this?? lol

Point is, yes, I agree that you should be able to express your own dissenting opinions while still remaining loyal as a friend. And, one doesn''t compromise the other.

 

[elrohwen]

I usually interpret ''loyalty'' as how I stand up for another person around others. I would never gossip or say negative things about my friends, or throw them under the bus for something. I think that''s what loyalty is. I will have their back, no matter what the situation.

I will absolutely disagree with my friends and they will disagree with me, but that''s part of being independent people with different ideas. It doesn''t affect our friendships.

 

[neatfreak]

You know I''m with you on that Layla. I hope my friends and I have differing views on some things-it makes things interesting. How boring is a conversation if a person agrees with 100% of what you say all the time?

Sadly friends that can tell you like it is but also support you when you need it are few and far between.

 

[trillionaire]

to me, loyalty is simply about being there for the person, through thick and thin. There are plenty of people who are around for the good times, but not the bad. That, to me, is disloyal. Loyalty is when you show up to your friends party, wedding, baby shower, etc, even if you are in the middle of a fight, because you know you would regret it later if you weren''t there, and you don''t want to be absent in the picture. It''s being there for someone, like you would do for a child, spouse, or family member, even when you don''t feel like it, and defending them to outsiders.

just my .02

 

[radiantquest]

My best friend and I are very different. Our relationships with our SOs are different and we have different tastes, but we get along so well. I prefer this to a friend that has everything in common with me. Of course there is enough that we can do things together, but we don''t agree about every conversation. I am very loyal to her. Probably more so than I would be to some members of my own family.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/8/2009 1:13:26 PM
Author: elrohwen
I usually interpret ''loyalty'' as how I stand up for another person around others. I would never gossip or say negative things about my friends, or throw them under the bus for something. I think that''s what loyalty is. I will have their back, no matter what the situation.

I will absolutely disagree with my friends and they will disagree with me, but that''s part of being independent people with different ideas. It doesn''t affect our friendships.

This is exactly what I was thinking, and would have said, but you beat me.

 

[D&T]

Date: 9/8/2009 3:01:27 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 9/8/2009 1:13:26 PM
Author: elrohwen
I usually interpret ''loyalty'' as how I stand up for another person around others. I would never gossip or say negative things about my friends, or throw them under the bus for something. I think that''s what loyalty is. I will have their back, no matter what the situation.

I will absolutely disagree with my friends and they will disagree with me, but that''s part of being independent people with different ideas. It doesn''t affect our friendships.

This is exactly what I was thinking, and would have said, but you beat me.

+2

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 9/8/2009 3:15:01 PM
Author: D&T

Date: 9/8/2009 3:01:27 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 9/8/2009 1:13:26 PM
Author: elrohwen
I usually interpret ''loyalty'' as how I stand up for another person around others. I would never gossip or say negative things about my friends, or throw them under the bus for something. I think that''s what loyalty is. I will have their back, no matter what the situation.

I will absolutely disagree with my friends and they will disagree with me, but that''s part of being independent people with different ideas. It doesn''t affect our friendships.

This is exactly what I was thinking, and would have said, but you beat me.

+2

+3

 

[Haven]

Date: 9/8/2009 3:22:41 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 9/8/2009 3:15:01 PM
Author: D&T

Date: 9/8/2009 3:01:27 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 9/8/2009 1:13:26 PM
Author: elrohwen
I usually interpret ''loyalty'' as how I stand up for another person around others. I would never gossip or say negative things about my friends, or throw them under the bus for something. I think that''s what loyalty is. I will have their back, no matter what the situation.
I will absolutely disagree with my friends and they will disagree with me, but that''s part of being independent people with different ideas. It doesn''t affect our friendships.

This is exactly what I was thinking, and would have said, but you beat me.

+2

+3

I agree with this, as well.

I like to think that being a loyal friend means keeping a friend''s best interest at heart no matter what. Being honest about my opinions is a part of that, as is standing up for a friend in front of others. However, for me it also means saving or protecting a friend from herself when she''s unable to do so. It means being honest if she''s in a destructive relationship, or if she''s deluding herself about her own health or something potentially harmful. It means putting her well being above my concern about how she views me, because sometimes you have to seem like the bad guy to be a loyal friend.

I actually don''t think I know of any adult friendships where two people feel they have to agree with each other all the time.

 

[Steel]

Because of my upbringing I demand absolute loyalty from those around me.

As far agreement on core issues, I anticipate that those in my circle will share my core views - that, moreover is how I chose them to become friends; but I do love to air out an old issue for a hearty debate.

 

[Lilac]

Date: 9/8/2009 3:31:45 PM
Author: Haven

Date: 9/8/2009 3:22:41 PM

Author: Kaleigh

Date: 9/8/2009 3:15:01 PM

Author: D&T

Date: 9/8/2009 3:01:27 PM

Author: Ellen

Date: 9/8/2009 1:13:26 PM

Author: elrohwen

I usually interpret ''loyalty'' as how I stand up for another person around others. I would never gossip or say negative things about my friends, or throw them under the bus for something. I think that''s what loyalty is. I will have their back, no matter what the situation.

I will absolutely disagree with my friends and they will disagree with me, but that''s part of being independent people with different ideas. It doesn''t affect our friendships.

This is exactly what I was thinking, and would have said, but you beat me.

+2

+3

I agree with this, as well.

I like to think that being a loyal friend means keeping a friend''s best interest at heart no matter what. Being honest about my opinions is a part of that, as is standing up for a friend in front of others. However, for me it also means saving or protecting a friend from herself when she''s unable to do so. It means being honest if she''s in a destructive relationship, or if she''s deluding herself about her own health or something potentially harmful. It means putting her well being above my concern about how she views me, because sometimes you have to seem like the bad guy to be a loyal friend.

I actually don''t think I know of any adult friendships where two people feel they have to agree with each other all the time.

I definitely agree with the idea that a loyal friend keeps a friend''s best interests at heart no matter what. That includes being honest, even if a friend doesn''t necessarily want to hear what you have to say. Unfortunately, sometimes people always want you to agree with them, but I think a true and loyal friend is willing to tell the truth even if it isn''t what their friend *wants* to hear.

I also would never talk about my friends behind their backs - I have a "friend" who does this to others and I know I can''t trust her with any personal information. I don''t consider her a *loyal* friend because I know she always has the potential to spread rumors and tell any secrets she knows to whoever is willing to listen. My real true friends can be trusted not to share the things I tell them with other people and they know they can expect the same of me.

 

[Indylady]

I think everyone''s pretty much said it- I want people to tell me what they really think. I wouldn''t ask if I didn''t want to know, simple as that. I want to know if there''s an idea that I haven''t considered yet, and I want to know if something I want to do is a bad idea and I haven''t realized it yet.

Likewise, I do the same for my friends. Recently, I gave a rather harsh evaluation to one my best friend''s relationships. After, I asked if I had hurt her feelings, and she said ''Of course not, you didn''t say anything that I wasn''t already thinking.'' In that case, sum total of hurt she would feel would be worse if I were to tell her lies that felt good than truths that were hard to hear, and because she''s my friend, I want her to experience the least amount of hurt possible. I would want my friends to do the same for me.

 

[princesss]

Interesting topic.

I'm not one to want to be surrounded by people that think the way I do, so generally my closest friends are people that are very, very different from me. They think differently and choose different things than I would, and I love that about them. I do have a tendency to shed friendships like a snake sheds skin, though, so what few good, lasting friendships I have, I treasure.

However, I don't deal well with disloyalty (which, to me is the failure to keep a person's best interest and happiness in focus, whether it's by spreading gossip or lying) and I react to it as strongly when I discover it in myself as when I feel it from other people. I realized that I wasn't acting like a friend to a few girls I was spending time with, and it disturbed me because I'm not the kind of person to trash a friend behind their backs, and yet I was slamming them every chance I got. Not cool, and not the kind of behaviour I expect from myself. So I had to take a step back, and I realized that as much as they were driving me crazy and I didn't feel I was being treated like a friend, it's not like I was being a friend to them, either. So I let the friendships go.

But you will never hear a negative word about my friends from me - you might hear that they drive me crazy (because they do, I can drive them nuts, too!) but the understanding I have with them and the love I have for them keeps me from ever wanting anybody to see anything but the best in them, and I desperately want the best *for* them. So yeah, if they're being talked about when they're not there, I will stand up for them. And if they're doing something harmful or stupid, I'll tell them. Because, ultimately, I agree with many of the ladies here: their safety, health, and overall well-being are far more important to me than whether they get mad at me.

Wow...way to ramble, princesss. Sorry for the novel, Gypsy!

(ETA: I also apologize for the excessive use of commas in my post.)

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 9/8/2009 5:02:11 PM
Author: princesss
Interesting topic.

I'm not one to want to be surrounded by people that think the way I do, so generally my closest friends are people that are very, very different from me. They think differently and choose different things than I would, and I love that about them. I do have a tendency to shed friendships like a snake sheds skin, though, so what few good, lasting friendships I have, I treasure.

However, I don't deal well with disloyalty (which, to me is the failure to keep a person's best interest and happiness in focus, whether it's by spreading gossip or lying) and I react to it as strongly when I discover it in myself as when I feel it from other people. I realized that I wasn't acting like a friend to a few girls I was spending time with, and it disturbed me because I'm not the kind of person to trash a friend behind their backs, and yet I was slamming them every chance I got. Not cool, and not the kind of behaviour I expect from myself. So I had to take a step back, and I realized that as much as they were driving me crazy and I didn't feel I was being treated like a friend, it's not like I was being a friend to them, either. So I let the friendships go.

But you will never hear a negative word about my friends from me - you might hear that they drive me crazy (because they do, I can drive them nuts, too!) but the understanding I have with them and the love I have for them keeps me from ever wanting anybody to see anything but the best in them, and I desperately want the best *for* them. So yeah, if they're being talked about when they're not there, I will stand up for them. And if they're doing something harmful or stupid, I'll tell them. Because, ultimately, I agree with many of the ladies here: their safety, health, and overall well-being are far more important to me than whether they get mad at me.

Wow...way to ramble, princesss. Sorry for the novel, Gypsy!

(ETA: I also apologize for the excessive use of commas in my post.)

Very elequent novel princess, so no apologies accepted.

What you said really struck a chord with me.

I recently let some "friendships" go because well... I realized that I wasn't a able to be friend, I couldn't reconcile what and who they were with things that I feel are fundemental to me, and knew that they weren't going to change-- and it wasn't my place to ask them to just to conform to my world view. And I didn't feel like I was being treated like a friend either. And it bothered me that I was engaging in behaviour that I didn't like to see in myself (slamming them). It was very freeing to let the friendships go. Very positive.

I will talk through issues with friends if something bothers me about something another friend is doing or saying. Not gossipping but honestly asking for help and perspective on how to support that friend while being true to my own feelings. I think that's natural. And I don't know everything, and haven't experienced everything so if I think someone else has a perspective that may help me support a friend, I will talk things through with them. I don't think of that as disloyalty or gossip.

And I totally agree that safety and well being are more important than if someone gets mad at me. And I will defend a friend against others, not by lying and saying that I agree with something I don't, but with honest support ("It may not be what I would do in her place, but that doesn't mean that she's wrong or that she's crazy, or a brat. And I don't appreciate your implications about her character, she one of the best people I know.")... even if I do privately disagree with my friend and have told them so.

I think you and Haven and well... everyone said it.

I may not walk out on the tight rope with you... but I'll do my best to get you to not go up on the tight rope, or if you do... make sure that I've double and triple checked your safety net and have 911 standing by. LOL.

 

[cindygenit]

I''m VERY loyal to my friends and I always stick up for them.

But I don''t necessarily think the same way as them and they do know this, and we still love each other. I think, Gypsy, what you were describing in your original post is "being a sheep" and not having a thought of your own, agreeing with what your friends think.

My best friends and I have a fantastic relationship. It really doesn''t matter if we haven''t seen each other for years, when we do meet up, it seems like no time has passed at all and we get on like a house on fire!

 

[Gypsy]

Yes, cindy. Sheep

. But some people REALLY seem to get off on being shepherds. LOL. Or herding dogs for the shepherd. Other''s think being sheep what they are supposed to be.


And unfortunately, some people don''t outgrow it. Adults or not, I think.

 

[perry]

Gypsy:

I have wanted to reply in a meaningfull way to your question since you posted it. It is a great question. Unfortunately, after my adventure last weekend I''m on some new medication that makes thinking difficult. So when aleart I have not had time; and when I''ve had time I can barely think (and I struggle tonight to even write even this).

Everyone else chimed in - so you got the gist of some of the issues.

Have a great day, and I look forward to engaging in a good converstion someday.

Perry