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For those who chose not to have children

You know I was going to avoid 'butt-ing in' as I have children but as this thread is going a bit off-topic I figured maybe I could say something.

You seem to be putting a lot of pressure on yourself. Your husband is still doing a postgraduate degree; you are trying to plan for children while he's still trying to finish and then apply for a job; you're a long way from your families. And you've set deadlines of no kids after 35. I'm not surprised you're a little unsure what you want to do under the circumstances.

Why not try freezing some eggs, and then taking the deadline off your head a little by accepting you have a window which is +_ a couple of years (many of us have children a little over 35. If nothing else when you're feeling a lot of stress and pressure it's just about impossible to get pregnant). Stop asking if you can fit kids to the parameters of your life. You can't. Basically they don't work like that so remove that factor. And ask if you want the main job of being a parent -- which is to love them (when you're exhausted, when they're misbehaving, when they're being adorable, when you've just had to give up the sauve apartment/car/trip/social life ect.). If you want that you want a kid. Otherwise as the eloquent posts above put it there will be other opportunities available which make your life extremely fulfilling. You are not losing out either way; you're just chosing the main focus to line up with what's best for you (which is really a good thing).
 
I just wanted to add to the discussion that while freezing eggs has gotten more reliable, it is expensive and not covered by insurance if not medically necessary (plus you have to do IVF to use them later, which is also expensive) and has relatively low success rates which may be even lower if you are older when you do the freezing. Freezing embryos is more reliable, but of course that comes with its own potential ethical and practical issues (e.g., do you want embryos sitting around forever or would you destroy them or offer them for adoption; what would you do in case of divorce; etc).
 
josieKat said:
I just wanted to add to the discussion that while freezing eggs has gotten more reliable, it is expensive and not covered by insurance if not medically necessary (plus you have to do IVF to use them later, which is also expensive) and has relatively low success rates which may be even lower if you are older when you do the freezing. Freezing embryos is more reliable, but of course that comes with its own potential ethical and practical issues (e.g., do you want embryos sitting around forever or would you destroy them or offer them for adoption; what would you do in case of divorce; etc).
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This response is not intended for those who have decided they want/or do not want children. I just am responding directly to the points in the quoted post.

These are really good points. Having viable embryos after 40 is hard. First you have to have successful embryos and then they suggest testing them after 40 and that has its own expenses and ethical issues. I never considered the difficulty I would have after 40 with IVF because I had no previous fertility issues. I do not think I would had tried if I would have known what I know now. It's definitely not without hardship. My husband and I had to talk about all of the things mentioned above and what would happen to embryos that were not used. It is not something I had even considered.
 
josieKat said:
I just wanted to add to the discussion that while freezing eggs has gotten more reliable, it is expensive and not covered by insurance if not medically necessary (plus you have to do IVF to use them later, which is also expensive) and has relatively low success rates which may be even lower if you are older when you do the freezing. Freezing embryos is more reliable, but of course that comes with its own potential ethical and practical issues (e.g., do you want embryos sitting around forever or would you destroy them or offer them for adoption; what would you do in case of divorce; etc).
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Yes this is a great point.
 
My personal feeling is that a person should seek out becoming a parent if they actively want children and are open to all it entails- becoming a mom only made that opinion stronger.

I have children, happy with my choice and I definitely wanted kiddos, but it fundamentally changes how you prioritize all aspects of your life if you’re giving them the care they need. It’s physically challenging (ranging from sleep deprivation to medical complications), expensive and obviously time consuming. It impacts socialization, career choices and sometimes how employers treat you (has definitely happened to me multiple times and I had to oppose it), finances, and can strain your other relationships. It introduces more uncertainty- will they have health challenges, for example?

So I say have them if you are sure you want them and are open to accepting all the responsibilities and unknowns, good and bad, and making changes/accommodations as needed. If you’re happy and fulfilled without kiddos and not sure, I would not have them. I have many good friends and siblings who are single or married and child free by choice and I think it’s great! Absolutely no judgement on my part when people make the choices that are right for them when it comes to choosing to have kids or not.
 
Jambalaya said:
I haven't read all the responses, but I'm approaching 50, have no children by choice, but have had a really hard time with this issue, so I wanted to give my perspective. Long-ish story below, but ultimately, I have a point! I promise! You can scroll down to the point, bolded below, if this is TLDR.

As far back as I can remember, I never wanted kids. However, I come from a deeply conservative family and a deeply conservative time and place. Religion, children, and no s*x before marriage. I always experienced my world as deeply claustrophobic and oppressive, so I guess I was never "one of them." I used to refer to getting an education and a decent job as a way of escaping what I called "playing the game." i.e. the game of pretending to be someone I wasn't until I could support myself. I remember saying to my sister, who was a few years older, after she graduated and got a good job "You're out of the game now."

All was well until I got married. The pressure that crashed down on me like a ton of bricks. You wouldn't believe it. It was a total shock. It was like I'd been put in a time machine and zinged back to the 18th century. I was 31 and I thought we'd long since moved on. My family had even started to be very encouraging of my career.

Getting married showed me how utterly sexist still society is and that they only thought it was OK for me to be independent as long as I wasn't married. (Once, I was dealing with a lawyer about a condo issue and my mother told me to leave that sort of thing to my husband!) The family cr*p went on for TEN YEARS. I set boundaries and no one gave a cr*p. It literally didn't stop until people died.

And now? I'm still so traumatized by the combo of those experiences and the additional stress of my parent friends going on and on and on and on about their own kids that I cannot bear to see any syrupy posts about children on Facebook. Some parent will post a glowing post about her son and how proud she is of him and how amazing he is, under a photo of some ordinary grumpy-looking teen, and they just sound unhinged to me. Why not just write it in his birthday card? Why not tell him straight? It's just showing off.

Parents worship their children but to the rest of us, they just look like average citizens. I am so resentful at the amount of my time that parent friends have wasted in the past few years going on about their kids. And when parents go on and on about family life to the childless/childfree, they are effectively telling you how amazing their lives are. (Not in this thread - I believe that the perspectives of those on both sides of the fence are valuable.)

Here is my point: (At last!) I am very happy I stuck to my guns throughout all the above and didn't have children. However, I absolutely feel that my life doesn't matter as much as parents' lives, that my life is smaller and less meaningful than theirs, and that it's much emptier than theirs. This doesn't mean that I want children. I am totally uninterested in spending time with children; it's not that I don't like them, it's that I find them completely, utterly boring. I find every aspect of children and child-rearing one of the most tedious things imaginable. I cannot understand how anyone would want to paint and do numbers with a small child rather than have an interesting adult conversation or read an interesting book. I have no time for children and never have had.

I can't figure out how much of my negative feelings about being childfree are genuine and how much is internalized angst from my experiences. I do feel very negative about not having had them, but it's hard to separate those feelings from the trauma I've experienced on this issue. I think probably, I don't have any regrets, but I've been very scarred by the way childfree women are treated. It's hard to be on the edges of society in this way, and you are very much on the edge if you have no children. 85% of women end up having them.

Ultimately, if you have doubts, you shouldn't do it. It's the kind of thing that's better to regret NOT doing than regret doing.

p.s. I'm absolutely dreading my friends becoming grandmothers, because I know they'll want to waste my time going on ad nauseam about their grandchildren, for years. I think I'm going to have to tell them that I just can't listen to it anymore, and explain how traumatized I feel about this issue.

pps. And to all the parents here, if you're the kind of parent to go on (and ON and ON) to your childless/childfree friends and colleagues and acquaintances about your children, for the love of god, just stop. Either they're childless, in which case your comments are very painful, or they're childfree, in which case you're boring them so much that they're fantasizing about ripping your arm off and beating you to death with it while they stand there with glazed-over eyes and a head like a nodding-dog toy, repeating "How sweet. Oh, how sweet. Wow, that's really sweet" ad nauseam. True story.
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I'm sorry you went through all that trauma! How awful! The grandmother who would have done that to me passed away when I was just 19 so never got the opportunity to push too hard. That is a bright spot in that painful loss....

I can listen and be genuinely happy for awhile, but I definitely get tired of it. Where it gets especially difficult is when the kids become the sole focus of conversation and I end up sitting silently for hours while everyone else chats away (after suitably irritated looks if I dared add anything other that "oh how nice" or "wow she looks great" or whatever). Seeing my grandparents get together with friends and new people, I suspect I will have another big rough patch again as the grandkids and great grandkids come into the picture. Listened to it my whole trip as my (other) grandmother caught up with everyone at home. How is X? She's great! She has 4 kids, 12 grandkids, and 5 greats already. What about Y? Oh, she is okay. She has the three girls. Only 2 grandkids though....

Definitely excluded from coffee meetups, lunches, and more. Very glad to have found friends since we moved who include those with and without kids. It isn't easy sometimes, but I think that is true no matter what decision you make. I have had friends tell me how lucky we are since we can head off to whatever without planning much ahead or sleep late without school to deal with or whatever the thing is that day.
 
I'm sorry you're surrounded by insensitive people, @Jambalaya and @TooPatient

However, I'm not sure they'd be any different were they child free or childless. Lack of empathy and *mememememe* conversation comes from idiots all the time. I've had (TRUE STORY) people turn away from me briskly after introduction at official functions when upon question one after introduction (this is MaisOuiMadame, the CEOs wife... Question: what do you do for work? me: I'm a SAHM ATM). They literally turned away saying "oh well you won't have anything interesting to say , then. Bye."
Me: "bye Felicia"

I have a multitude of interests and I haven't had to erase my memory from before kids and I have more than one postgraduate degree and I have travelled extensively and I've lived in different countries and I'm keenly interested in politics and history and art and psychology and sociology. All of which make up 90% of my conversations.
The rest of the 10 % might touch our families if we happen to stumble across this.
My point is that insensitive child free stamp collectors will be equally boring and annoying and judging you for not being interested. And I have caught myself making friends' eyes glaze over talking about OECs and tiaras :oops:
 
737liz said:
This is going to be long, meandering, and occasionally insulting. I think the arguments for 'the joys of motherhood' has quite a strong representation on instagram and elsewhere in society. I am by no means discounting how wonderful parenting can be for some.

But before I drivel on and pass judgment. FREEZE YOUR EGGS. YESTERDAY. CHOICE IS IMPORTANT. You say you are not 100% against kids. So freeze 'em. I have been screaming to all my friends to freeze their eggs for the past decade. I was told I was insulting them, that they had plenty of time. These same women are now confronted with lack of choice, and some are crushed by it. They are mourning the children they never even conceived. FREEZE YOUR EGGS.

I am in my late 30s. I have never wanted children. And still don't. I am with a man who agrees with me. When I was a kid I assumed I would have a family but that is simply because that is the modèl of what a 'grown up' was. I have never felt gushy about babies or children. Ironically, I fell into a job where I am either taking care of or tutoring kids all day every day. 45 plus hours a week embedded in family life. And it IS rewarding.

I'm going to be controversial but I view having children as a selfish act. Caring for that child is selfless, but the initial impulse and desire for a child is one that is calculated to benefit the parents, and the parents alone. Unless those parents say to themselves and others that they are going to have kids 'for the sake of the future and humanity'. Um, every parent thinks their kid is going to better the planet. 7 billion and counting.

I can objectively see the allure of having an extension of oneself manifested in a creature that is malleable and wholly reliant and devoted to you.

Yet I still have zero interest starting a family by any means, whether through adoption or procreation. My position is that unless I needed a child to feel fulfilled, having bio kids is not in the interest of society or the planet.

I have been repeatedly told that I must want kids deep down. I have been asked why spend so much time working with them, if I don't want one. I have been told it's my duty to have a kid because I would make such a good mother. To which my rather insulting reply is 'I'd rather fix yours than create my own'.

Many of my friends had kids because they didn't want to be alone at 80. Or wanted a 'legacy'. If you have a healthy neurotypical, driven child who grows up pursuing a lucrative career, great. They can help you financially as well as emotionally. But if you have a child who needs help well beyond their 18th birthday, or 25th, or 45th, what then? If the act of raising that child and seeing him or her learn, grown, and become an independent human being is all you want, then by all means have a child. But counting on your kid being a companion, old age security net, or saviour of the planet seems a bit unreasonable.

All that to say, I am not in my twilight years looking back, but I do not believe that children are a recipe for happiness. If you are happy now, what do you hope to get from parenting? Yes, you may find that parenthood brings new wonderful dimensions to your life. Or not. If you are on the fence, that is a big gamble for yourself, your marriage, but most importantly, for your theoretical future child.

Hope you are finding clarity with all our replies! And please freeze your eggs!
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Sorry to comment in the middle like this. But I agree. A coworker of mine never wanted kids till she hit 39. Flipped a switch and then had to try really hard to get pregnant. IVF. The whole deal. She told me the advice she would give her daughter is freeze her eggs since the technology is available to give her options. Cause people can change their minds.
 
MaisOuiMadame said:
However, I'm not sure they'd be any different were they child free or childless. Lack of empathy and *mememememe* conversation comes from idiots all the time. I've had (TRUE STORY) people turn away from me briskly after introduction at official functions when upon question one after introduction (this is MaisOuiMadame, the CEOs wife... Question: what do you do for work? me: I'm a SAHM ATM). They literally turned away saying "oh well you won't have anything interesting to say , then. Bye."
Me: "bye Felicia"
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Wow, well all I have to say here is it is 100% their loss and your gain. You don't need people like that in your life and they did you a favor by showing you exactly who they are and they did it early too. Saving you time and energy. And yes it is their loss because they lost out on getting to know a superb individual and human being. Good riddance to them.
 
marymm said:
Some people may wonder "what if," others may not.
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True, we are all different. I never once wondered "what if" when it came to this decision. Not once.
 
missy said:
Wow, well all I have to say here is it is 100% their loss and your gain. You don't need people like that in your life and they did you a favor by showing you exactly who they are and they did it early too. Saving you time and energy. And yes it is their loss because they lost out on getting to know a superb individual and human being. Good riddance to them.
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Thank you so much sweeter @missy and I agree: the earlier the better!!!
 
My DH and I have been married for almost 16 years and are happily child free. I should start by saying that I love kids. I really do. I grew up playing with dolls, then babysitting, then helping take care of my nieces. I loved every bit of it. I always assumed I’d have kids one day. After all, I was raised Catholic and that’s what you do. Get married and procreate. However, I have always had a terrible fear of being pregnant. Giving birth is freaking terrifying to me. Kudos to all the women that have done it. You are all rockstars!

After I got married, life went on as normal. While we both agreed we would have kids someday, we weren’t yet in a position to have them (young and broke). Around this time, I had gotten a new job and one of my coworkers was child free. I swear to you, it had never occurred to me that this was an option (raised Catholic, remember?). But now that I knew it was, I really started thinking about if I wanted kids or not. I nervously broached the subject with my DH to see how he would feel and I’m so lucky because, like me, he was expected to have kids but didn’t really care one way or the other if we actually did. We started doing a 6 month “check in” to make sure we were still on the same page and, thankfully, we were.

Maybe 4 years into our marriage, someone we knew decided they didn’t want to be a parent anymore and left their 2 year old in a family members care. We were young and capable so obviously the conversation came up about whether we should consider adopting this little girl. Right then and there, I knew I never wanted to have or raise kids. Like ever! I love them but kids are a huge responsibility and not one I’m interested in taking on. Thankfully, the little girl was immediately adopted by her aunt so it didn’t become an issue. Long story short, my DH and I were still on the same page so he went and got snipped. We have no regrets. We have a large family of fur babies (who I vastly prefer to humans), we travel more, and we focus on our love and commitment to each other. Life is good.
 
This thread has gotten a bit ugly and the irony is, every poster here has made thoughtful, responsible decisions. All are intelligent and successful people with or without offspring.
I'm without, and I work in healthcare and what drives me crazy is the number of women who view reproduction as some sort of right, like they're entitled even if they have no chance of supporting children or providing a good home and successful upbringing. And who do you think pays for this? The rest of us. If one thing would change this world, it would be NO ONE having a child who can't support it. I had a doctor who said, "I'd make everybody get a license."

Mr. CarParts has two grown children from a previous marriage and he said, "I had kids so I'd have someone to wipe my ass when I'm 93." I inject this for humor - no one loves his kids more. He should have had kids, it's good I didn't.
 
Ibrakeforpossums said:
"I'd make everybody get a license."
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I'm with you about the license @Ibrakeforpossums . But for me it's unfortunately so much more than money and paying for it. I happily pay with my taxes (in Europe,.so here we actually
have paid maternity leave, free basic healthcare for children etc etc). I've got no problem to pay if a woman who will care well for her child needs more support for a while during baby or toddler years.

But I've seen a lot of very wealthy nut cases inflicting various degrees of psychological and emotional neglect.

Lately I've been dealing with this from extremely close, taking one such child into my own home. It makes my blood boil. I got lambasted though, when I said ( not in front of the child, mind you!!!) : Why have THREE children then?

The echo was: everyone has the right to be a parent. Look at yourself, you have plenty.

I'm completely dumfounded so many (stable and normal) people still put the parents' rights yo have children over the well being of the children as a first reflex.

I have deep respect for all the thoughtful people who take the time to think and then act accordingly by making the choice that's right for them.
 
missy said:
True, we are all different. I never once wondered "what if" when it came to this decision. Not once.
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Same here, not once - it is not for negotiation, full stop.

Perhaps this is the main reason why I am on my own and not in a relationship, as I do not wish to get involved with anyone with a ready-made family with children of whatever ages in tow and full of baggage.

I have my own baggage and do not need anyone else's, thanks!

DK :))
 
When DH and I got together we both preferred to be childless, but if the other wanted a kid we were open to having one. We agreed to check in every few years to see if our feelings had changed or if anything was “missing”. We have been 100% happy with our decision not to have kids. Absolutely zero regrets. We had a lot more freedom with our careers, money and life choices than our friends who are parents. What I found interesting is that when people questioned our choice it often came from a place of societal expectations, desire for someone to care for you in old age, or wanting a “mini me”; it rarely was from a place of finding joy or happiness as a parent.
 
TooPatient said:
I'm sorry you went through all that trauma! How awful! The grandmother who would have done that to me passed away when I was just 19 so never got the opportunity to push too hard. That is a bright spot in that painful loss....

I can listen and be genuinely happy for awhile, but I definitely get tired of it. Where it gets especially difficult is when the kids become the sole focus of conversation and I end up sitting silently for hours while everyone else chats away (after suitably irritated looks if I dared add anything other that "oh how nice" or "wow she looks great" or whatever). Seeing my grandparents get together with friends and new people, I suspect I will have another big rough patch again as the grandkids and great grandkids come into the picture. Listened to it my whole trip as my (other) grandmother caught up with everyone at home. How is X? She's great! She has 4 kids, 12 grandkids, and 5 greats already. What about Y? Oh, she is okay. She has the three girls. Only 2 grandkids though....

Definitely excluded from coffee meetups, lunches, and more. Very glad to have found friends since we moved who include those with and without kids. It isn't easy sometimes, but I think that is true no matter what decision you make. I have had friends tell me how lucky we are since we can head off to whatever without planning much ahead or sleep late without school to deal with or whatever the thing is that day.
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I’m flabbergasted at people that either would question someone’s decision to have a child or their thinking that children are the only worthwhile topic of conversation. I am definitely more sensitive about blathering on about my children and grandson to my friend who has no children but on the plus side, we have way more interesting conversations about other topics. And I can’t even imagine criticizing anyone for not having children because I know how hard it is and my kids were “easy”. My older son and his wife are not sure if they will have children. They are good people and it’s their life to live.
I think Covid has made me think long and hard about what I value and also that I don’t know people at all. Do what makes you happy!!
 
MaisOuiMadame said:
I'm sorry you're surrounded by insensitive people, @Jambalaya and @TooPatient

However, I'm not sure they'd be any different were they child free or childless. Lack of empathy and *mememememe* conversation comes from idiots all the time. I've had (TRUE STORY) people turn away from me briskly after introduction at official functions when upon question one after introduction (this is MaisOuiMadame, the CEOs wife... Question: what do you do for work? me: I'm a SAHM ATM). They literally turned away saying "oh well you won't have anything interesting to say , then. Bye."
Me: "bye Felicia"
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As a SAHM, I get this too! One of my husband's colleagues asked me, "so when are you going to do something?" I was so stunned that I couldn't even come up with a reply. After seeing my face, he tried very hard to backtrack by saying that he just asked because it must be so boring. :roll:
 
Sprinkles&Stones said:
Neither of us want kids. Neither of us have ever, EVER, felt any kind of paternal or material instinct. Neither of us like children now. Neither of us have ever felt any desire to be around children. Both of us are "turned off" by children. I have done my fair share of babysitting and found it horrible. DH has never spent any amount of time with any infant or child.
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To me, you have your answer with what you say above.

Ionysis said:
Elderly parent sadly pass away. Friends and even romantic loves do frequently come and go. However the likelihood is (albeit not 100%) that any children you have will be “there” forever.

Of course they could move away, pass away or even grow up to not want a relationship with you. But that is statistically less likely.
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As others have said, I don't think you should have kids just so that you "might" have someone to have a relationship with, or who will take care of you, when you are older. I know you say that it's likely that having kids will mean they are there with you forever, and that may be true generally, it doesn't mean that they will want to be there, or that you will want to be dependent on them to keep you company.

OP, if you and your DH don't want kids, I don't think you should have them. It's interesting because you've ruled out adoption, kids after 35, IVF, etc. If you really wanted kids, it seems to me that you would be more open to some of these options, You definitely shouldn't have kids because people think you should, or that you might regret not having them, because you may also regret having them too. You've set an age deadline for yourselves. If you don't want them on that timeline, then I say stay with your feelings. Better for you to not have them and regret it than have them, and regret it and they know it.
 
Gussie said:
As a SAHM, I get this too! One of my husband's colleagues asked me, "so when are you going to do something?" I was so stunned that I couldn't even come up with a reply. After seeing my face, he tried very hard to backtrack by saying that he just asked because it must be so boring. :roll:
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@Gussie, I don’t even know what to say after reading that response. I’m sorry you had to deal with this. It would have taken me 20 minutes to pick my jaw off the floor.
 
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Gussie said:
As a SAHM, I get this too! One of my husband's colleagues asked me, "so when are you going to do something?" I was so stunned that I couldn't even come up with a reply. After seeing my face, he tried very hard to backtrack by saying that he just asked because it must be so boring. :roll:
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Wow. I actually feel sorry for him. I might have replied yes, I hear the greatest joy in life comes from making a major corporation more money and spending time in traffic and cubicles. I am really missing out.

What a loser. I would have been embarrassed for him, not for me if someone said that to me.
 
Gussie said:
As a SAHM, I get this too! One of my husband's colleagues asked me, "so when are you going to do something?" I was so stunned that I couldn't even come up with a reply. After seeing my face, he tried very hard to backtrack by saying that he just asked because it must be so boring. :roll:
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Gahhh. All I can do is laugh at that one. He's just clueless , but I'm actually sorry for his wife, since he doesn't seem to be very hands on in the household etc....



And yes I got that exact question multiple times... The last time being from my 20y/o old nephew on Christmas. "But surely that can't be everything you do?" "That must be so boring!"

nope. Got a 2 y/o and then a kid every 2 years up 14 y/o AND my 15 y/o niece living with us who's turned out to be mentally ill. But yeah. I'm so bored out - NOT



In the other hand if LOVE to discuss jewelry design, interior design and at least 5 more topics with you in depth @Gussie !!!
 
Fascinating article, @Jambalaya.
I noticed the date on it is 2/1/2020 -- just before Covid hit. Ambivalent as she was before Covid, I can only imagine the effect of the pandemic on the author's thoughts about having children.
 
I just wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone who has posted and commented!

I am feeling such peace after reading through. Not because I've come to a decision one way or another (obviously), but because everyone's stories are different and there is always joy and love to be found in every path of life, nomatter which path someone chooses. <3
 
MaiOuiMadame, you make a very good point. Financial means do not guarantee good parenting. Thank you for raising this, so very valid.
 
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