For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers here

[ksinger]

Haven, I thought of you when I read this. If you were on some OTHER site (hint hint), I would link this directly to you, BUT.....

Anyway, this is a very good article that will speak to you I suspect, since you have complained before about unprepared students.

Any comments are welcome. I don't mean to clog up the Hangout, but this one is an excellent piece and interesting to more than just Haven I suspect.

In The Basement of The Ivory Tower
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/06/in-the-basement-of-the-ivory-tower/6810/

 

[Haven]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

KSinger--Thank you for this link. I read the piece, and I've begun to formulate a response. I'm going to wait to post it until I'm working from home later today.

I'm really interested in hearing what others think.

 

[slg47]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

interesting article, thanks for posting it.

honestly I couldn't get past this paragraph, especially the bolded parts. I realize this was not the thrust of the article, but this part hit me. Science is not about memorization. I am well aware that many science educators use easy-to-grade multiple choice tests (and some multiple choice questions are better designed than others) but many do not, and right/wrong answer is not always clear. It disturbs me that this is the perception of science educators. I have had several students argue with me about free response answers on midterms or lab reports, both of which are subjective.

How I envy professors in other disciplines! How appealing seems the straightforwardness of their task! These are the properties of a cell membrane, kid. Memorize ’em, and be ready to spit ’em back at me. The biology teacher also enjoys the psychic ease of grading multiple-choice tests. Answers are right or wrong. The grades cannot be questioned. Quantifying the value of a piece of writing, however, is intensely subjective, and English teachers are burdened with discretion. (My students seem to believe that my discretion is limitless. Some of them come to me at the conclusion of a course and matter-of-factly ask that I change a failing grade because they need to graduate this semester or because they worked really hard in the class or because they need to pass in order to receive tuition reimbursement from their employer.)

 

[yssie]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

That was - well, thoroughly amusing.

The heights the human ego can reach never fail to astound me. To believe that he, in his particular niche of his profession, has it that much harder than everybody else - to be envious of that (laughably inaccurate) perception - shows little more than truly baffling narcissism - after all, he's no more a martyr to his cause than anyone else struggling to make a difference in his/her field.

As to the rest of the article - well, if he's that jaded by it all I think it's pretty obviously time to find a new side-job. I can't imagine how someone who feels it's as hopeless as he seems to is going to inspire hope and motivation in others.

On the whole - yeah, I think college isn't for everyone. But goodness, *my* kid is darn well going to go to college and succeed! And.. I can't imagine a parent or parent-to-be in the US who does not share exactly that sentiment. Which leads to - well, everyone.

 

[ksinger]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

I don't think anyone is saying that science is nothing but rote memorization, and yet surely you cannot think that your subject is as subjective as writing or dare I say it, history? And yes, my husband bemoans the fact that science and math teachers have all SORTS of canned teaching aids and well-developed and logically organized lesson plans and software to choose from, whereas his discipline, history, not so much. He would not use them wholesale of course, but it would be nice to have the option from time to time. In fact, he once was talking to a software rep who was hawking the latest software aids, and asked when they would work something up for history. The rep told him that they had no plans now or in the future because the topic was so politically explosive they just didn't want to mess with it. So there's subjective and then there's subjective, you know? At the end of the day there is no "right" answer to the civil war, but H20 will always be oxygen and hydrogen.

 

[yssie]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

I don't think anyone is saying that science is nothing but rote memorization, and yet surely you cannot think that your subject is as subjective as writing or dare I say it, history? And yes, my husband bemoans the fact that science and math teachers have all SORTS of canned teaching aids and well-developed and logically organized lesson plans and software to choose from, whereas his discipline, history, not so much. He would not use them wholesale of course, but it would be nice to have the option from time to time. In fact, he once was talking to a software rep who was hawking the latest software aids, and asked when they would work something up for history. The rep told him that they had no plans now or in the future because the topic was so politically explosive they just didn't want to mess with it. So there's subjective and then there's subjective, you know? At the end of the day there is no "right" answer to the civil war, but H20 will always be oxygen and hydrogen.

ksinger - poor example.

Thomas Jefferson was president from 1801 to 1809. Fact, end of story, no discussion.
How did Thomas Jefferson's actions during his tenure shape the future of the country? Well, that's very Subjective.

H2O is oxygen and hydrogen. Fact, end of story, no discussion.
How did modelling flows as incompressible fluids like water shape the future of drug delivery? Well, that's very Subjective too. First example I thought of since I hear DH rant daily, but ultimately the whole point of studying science, like studying history, is to learn to ask questions that don't have canned answers.

 

[ksinger]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

I don't think anyone is saying that science is nothing but rote memorization, and yet surely you cannot think that your subject is as subjective as writing or dare I say it, history? And yes, my husband bemoans the fact that science and math teachers have all SORTS of canned teaching aids and well-developed and logically organized lesson plans and software to choose from, whereas his discipline, history, not so much. He would not use them wholesale of course, but it would be nice to have the option from time to time. In fact, he once was talking to a software rep who was hawking the latest software aids, and asked when they would work something up for history. The rep told him that they had no plans now or in the future because the topic was so politically explosive they just didn't want to mess with it. So there's subjective and then there's subjective, you know? At the end of the day there is no "right" answer to the civil war, but H20 will always be oxygen and hydrogen.

ksinger - poor example.

Thomas Jefferson was president from 1801 to 1809. Fact, end of story, no discussion.
How did Thomas Jefferson's actions during his tenure shape the future of the country? Well, that's very Subjective.

H2O is oxygen and hydrogen. Fact, end of story, no discussion.
How did modelling flows as incompressible fluids like water shape the future of drug delivery? Well, that's very Subjective too. First example I thought of since I hear DH rant daily, but ultimately the whole point of studying science, like studying history, is to learn to ask questions that don't have canned answers.

I admit perhaps that was not the best example I've ever put up, but how's this - I did manage to plough my way through differential equations, statics and strengths of materials, quantitative analysis, and chemical processes back in the day, and I don't remember a whole lot of subjectivity going into those answers. I realize quite well that at the upper research levels, making the subjective and intuitive leaps, backed by solid grounding in logic and mathematics, is what we strive for, but that's NOT what this article is about, is it? And just because you personally "can't imagine a parent or parent-to-be in the US who does not share exactly that sentiment" that you do about sending his/her kid to college, doesn't change the fact that parents who don't share your view DO exist. In DROVES. The mere fact that the author is teaching a large number of middle-aged, non-traditional, non-college-degreed students should tell you that.

Honestly, my intent was not to have a thread that immediately devolved into a pissing match about which teachers have a harder job, or to get critiques of whether the guy is a card-carrying narcissist . All subjects are tough, albeit in different ways. Just because the guy indulges in a bit of "grass is greener" mindset, should not invalidate or overshadow what he was trying to say.

 

[yssie]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

I admit perhaps that was not the best example I've ever put up, but how's this - I did manage to plough my way through differential equations, statics and strengths of materials, quantitative analysis, and chemical processes back in the day, and I don't remember a whole lot of subjectivity going into those answers. I realize quite well that at the upper research levels, making the subjective and intuitive leaps, backed by solid grounding in logic and mathematics, is what we strive for, but that's NOT what this article is about, is it? And just because you personally "can't imagine a parent or parent-to-be in the US who does not share exactly that sentiment" that you do about sending his/her kid to college, doesn't change the fact that parents who don't share your view DO exist. In DROVES. The mere fact that the author is teaching a large number of middle-aged, non-traditional, non-college-degreed students should tell you that.

Honestly, my intent was not to have a thread that immediately devolved into a pissing match about which teachers have a harder job, or to get critiques of whether the guy is a card-carrying narcissist . All subjects are tough, albeit in different ways. Just because the guy indulges in a bit of "grass is greener" mindset, should not invalidate or overshadow what he was trying to say.

Yes, you're right, parents who don't share my views do exist. It's easy to forget as I have not personally encountered this, but that was not the point of my post. Apologies for the tangential response - the article p*ssed me off. If his argument isn't that people like his students just aren't intellectually cut out for college and never will be then I missed it - possibly because he harped on just that throughout.

"As to the rest of the article - well, if he's that jaded by it all I think it's pretty obviously time to find a new side-job. I can't imagine how someone who feels it's as hopeless as he seems to is going to inspire hope and motivation in others."

Edited*

 

[swimmer]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

This guy pissed me off so much I had to step away from the computer....well put the laptop down slowly as the baby was asleep on me at the time, but still.

"Despite my enthusiasm, despite their thoughtful nods of agreement and what I have interpreted as moments of clarity, it turns out that in many cases it has all come to naught. Remarkably few of my students can do well in these classes. Students routinely fail; some fail multiple times, and some will never pass, because they cannot write a coherent sentence."

Then freaking teach them how to write a sentence since you are their freaking English 101 teacher! This guy thinks that his witty banter is teaching. No, standing up in front of learners and being paid for it DOES NOT make you an educator. Why doesn't he take this opportunity to teach these literature starved people? I am embarrassed by this narcissistic twit. KS, I know this isn't what you wanted to talk about...but still, hard to parse out the message from the freaking blowhard messenger.

OK, gathering my wits about me now. Harumph. No, not everyone needs to go to college. A college degree is not a vaccination, people can enjoy great literature (much of what that buffoon mentioned was btw not the most accessible or relevant stuff out there and almost all were written by very dead white men) without being enrolled in a degree program. A real teacher works with whoever walks in the room, and also simply the people that they bump into along life's path. A curious person, with or without degrees, will seek out new information out of a desire to feed their soul and quench that thirst. The author is missing more and more opportunities to reach these students who want to learn and enrich themselves/their lives, why on earth is he being the "sage on the stage" rather than reaching out to them and providing the resources that they require?

Yssie and KS, I agree with you both, I dread hearing "I hate history" from my students as I know they have had that soulsucking teaching that is limited to lists of dates and questions that can be answered A, B, C, D, or None of the above. I also remember being told by my AP Chem teacher to "just stop asking so many questions and memorize it all." Sadly the worst aspects of teaching are rewarded and embraced by the onslaught of testing. May we all move beyond this tragic chapter in all levels of education and towards making higher order thinking and communicating our highest goals.

 

[ksinger]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

This guy pissed me off so much I had to step away from the computer....well put the laptop down slowly as the baby was asleep on me at the time, but still.

"Despite my enthusiasm, despite their thoughtful nods of agreement and what I have interpreted as moments of clarity, it turns out that in many cases it has all come to naught. Remarkably few of my students can do well in these classes. Students routinely fail; some fail multiple times, and some will never pass, because they cannot write a coherent sentence."

Then freaking teach them how to write a sentence since you are their freaking English 101 teacher! This guy thinks that his witty banter is teaching. No, standing up in front of learners and being paid for it DOES NOT make you an educator. Why doesn't he take this opportunity to teach these literature starved people? I am embarrassed by this narcissistic twit. KS, I know this isn't what you wanted to talk about...but still, hard to parse out the message from the freaking blowhard messenger.

OK, gathering my wits about me now. Harumph. No, not everyone needs to go to college. A college degree is not a vaccination, people can enjoy great literature (much of what that buffoon mentioned was btw not the most accessible or relevant stuff out there and almost all were written by very dead white men) without being enrolled in a degree program. A real teacher works with whoever walks in the room, and also simply the people that they bump into along life's path. A curious person, with or without degrees, will seek out new information out of a desire to feed their soul and quench that thirst. The author is missing more and more opportunities to reach these students who want to learn and enrich themselves/their lives, why on earth is he being the "sage on the stage" rather than reaching out to them and providing the resources that they require?

Yssie and KS, I agree with you both, I dread hearing "I hate history" from my students as I know they have had that soulsucking teaching that is limited to lists of dates and questions that can be answered A, B, C, D, or None of the above. I also remember being told by my AP Chem teacher to "just stop asking so many questions and memorize it all." Sadly the worst aspects of teaching are rewarded and embraced by the onslaught of testing. May we all move beyond this tragic chapter in all levels of education and towards making higher order thinking and communicating our highest goals.

Yes, I was actually more interested in why so many colleges are allowing unprepared students in classes where they clearly shouldn't be. Frustrating for the teacher, potentially demoralizing and unecessarily costly for the student. And of course, ultimately, how do we as a society, handle these types of students - the ones with limited backgrounds or who simply don't want to be there but feel they must be. I had no idea it would elicit such horrified and visceral responses. That was not my intent. At all.

ETA - Perhaps I should have posted it with this, its companion piece (separated by several years, with the first one being the earlier of the two). The second is less self-referent and more focused on the actual topic of colleges.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/03/an-anti-college-backlash/73214/

 

[Circe]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

This guy pissed me off so much I had to step away from the computer....well put the laptop down slowly as the baby was asleep on me at the time, but still.

... freaking teach them how to write a sentence since you are their freaking English 101 teacher! This guy thinks that his witty banter is teaching. No, standing up in front of learners and being paid for it DOES NOT make you an educator. Why doesn't he take this opportunity to teach these literature starved people?

Here's the thing, though: in a college-level English 101 class, students are supposed to know how to write a sentence. If they can't, they don't belong in the class. It's unfair to the rest of the class to teach to the LCD, so sheer practicality dictates failing the students. The students should know that they need remediation, but many are either unaware, or ashamed, or just hoping that they can squeak by with a D ... which, thanks to rampant grade inflation, they frequently do, only to wind up completely adrift in upper-level courses. So this guy's complaints, as obnoxiously as they may be phrased, are basically only a matter of time, and (academia's dirty little secret), at pretty much every level of education, from CC to Ivy.

To this day, my most depressing memory of teaching comes from my very first class, when I was a squeaky little 22 year old teaching Expository Writing (basically, English 101). One of my students was a returning student, a gentleman in his 50s who was at this point a junior.

He was illiterate.

I was apparently the first person to notice. Sending him to remedial classes was a bureaucratic nightmare, and a damned shame: not because there's anything wrong with remediation, but because he'd gotten through three years worth of classes.

Could/should I have taught him to read, basically? As a one-on-one tutor, sure! As an instructor with a room full of other students? Er, no. And though he's my most dramatic case, he's far from the only one: I figure I've taught over 500 students by this point, and I've had to fail more than a few of them ... some for not fulfilling the requirements, and some simply because they weren't qualified to be in the classes in the first place.

I solemnly wish that colleges were more stringent about their placement tests, and that my colleagues would stop practicing the equivalent of social promotion. Since I don't see colleges turning down money, though, or my colleagues in any individual rush to buck the curve, get crap evaluations, or call down the wrath of their chairs ... methinks we'll actually need to start regulating higher level ed. at some point.

On the other hand, it's not like that's doing any favors for my brethren teaching in the public schools, so ... yeah. The more philosophical question might be, does everybody need college? I'd say no, frankly - but I'm wiped, so I'll leave the philosophy to y'all, and pick up where I'm leaving off later ....

 

[ksinger]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

This guy pissed me off so much I had to step away from the computer....well put the laptop down slowly as the baby was asleep on me at the time, but still.

... freaking teach them how to write a sentence since you are their freaking English 101 teacher! This guy thinks that his witty banter is teaching. No, standing up in front of learners and being paid for it DOES NOT make you an educator. Why doesn't he take this opportunity to teach these literature starved people?

Here's the thing, though: in a college-level English 101 class, students are supposed to know how to write a sentence. If they can't, they don't belong in the class. It's unfair to the rest of the class to teach to the LCD, so sheer practicality dictates failing the students. The students should know that they need remediation, but many are either unaware, or ashamed, or just hoping that they can squeak by with a D ... which, thanks to rampant grade inflation, they frequently do, only to wind up completely adrift in upper-level courses. So this guy's complaints, as obnoxiously as they may be phrased, are basically only a matter of time, and (academia's dirty little secret), at pretty much every level of education, from CC to Ivy.

To this day, my most depressing memory of teaching comes from my very first class, when I was a squeaky little 22 year old teaching Expository Writing (basically, English 101). One of my students was a returning student, a gentleman in his 50s who was at this point a junior.

He was illiterate.

I was apparently the first person to notice. Sending him to remedial classes was a bureaucratic nightmare, and a damned shame: not because there's anything wrong with remediation, but because he'd gotten through three years worth of classes.

Could/should I have taught him to read, basically? As a one-on-one tutor, sure! As an instructor with a room full of other students? Er, no. And though he's my most dramatic case, he's far from the only one: I figure I've taught over 500 students by this point, and I've had to fail more than a few of them ... some for not fulfilling the requirements, and some simply because they weren't qualified to be in the classes in the first place.

I solemnly wish that colleges were more stringent about their placement tests, and that my colleagues would stop practicing the equivalent of social promotion. Since I don't see colleges turning down money, though, or my colleagues in any individual rush to buck the curve, get crap evaluations, or call down the wrath of their chairs ... methinks we'll actually need to start regulating higher level ed. at some point.

On the other hand, it's not like that's doing any favors for my brethren teaching in the public schools, so ... yeah. The more philosophical question might be, does everybody need college? I'd say no, frankly - but I'm wiped, so I'll leave the philosophy to y'all, and pick up where I'm leaving off later ....

Your experiences bring back a memory or two. I haven't been a teacher, but back when I was married to that other guy, he was taking night school in one of those accelerated programs. He did much writing, and for his papers he asked me to proof them, deferring to my greater command of the language. So I would sit there and try to puzzle out what the heck he was trying to say, as often as not. He had run-on sentences, incoherencies, misused words, you name it. (His inability to NOT write reams of tripe was no doubt part of his inability to improvise properly on the guitar: he never learned that the silences are as important as the notes. But I digress...) In any case, after him getting indignant at my (actually quite gentle - I was gentle back then) attemps to help tighten up his sentences, I let him hand them in as is. And these incoherent papers, overwhelmed with words that made no point, and went nowhere, got fab grades. All I could think of was what crack are these so-called profs smoking to be able to make heads of tails of this tripe. And we're not talking a situation where I was just too ignorant to understand his high flights of erudition. While he was a reasonably intelligent person, his sentences truly made NO SENSE, from a grammatical standpoint, let alone a thought standpoint. So grade inflation, I hear ya.

 

[HopeDream]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

Reading this article I though "Who has been letting students in to first year classes with out the proper pre-requisits?"
Yes it is only first year english, but if those going in don't have a high school graduate level of competency, then the prof shouldn't be failing them, he should be encouraging them to withdraw from the course while there's still time, and enroll in an 040 level "introduction to writing" class to get the basics.

Anyone can learn if they want to (and are willing to put in the effort), but you have to learn the basics (complete sentences) before you can write a research paper.

 

[Haven]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

KSinger--Thank you for sharing this.

I wrote much of this response earlier in the day before anyone else responded to this thread, so I’m sorry if I’m repeating anyone.

My initial response is that Professor X makes many unfair generalizations of college students, both at the community college and university levels. The most disheartening of these being his characterization of his many students who identified “their ideal academic college based not on the U.S. News & World Report rankings but on MapQuest; in their ideal academic geometry, college is located at a convenient spot between work and home.” (pg. 1) My experience as a teacher of developmental (read: underprepared) students has taught me that a teacher who sells his students short is the worst threat to student success; worse than a lack of skills, worse than a resource-deprived school. Research shows that a teacher’s beliefs about his students’ ability and intelligence have an enormous effect on the students’ own self-image, and ultimately, their performance in school. Thus, Professor X’s characterization of his students is a real concern for me.

Now, on to some of the major issues raised in this piece:

Pedagogical Concerns

This piece raises questions about what we should reasonably expect from instructors, and from students. If students are unprepared, whose responsibility is it to get them prepared? Should instructors be expected to meet students at their level, or should students be responsible for subsidizing their own needs to reach the level of the course?

These concerns touch on many different issues.

Most notably: Most instructors are not prepared to actually meet developmental students at their level. Yes, that’s right, I said it: Most of our instructors are ill prepared themselves. If native-speaking students in introductory college courses cannot read or write at a college level, they need help developing their literacy skills. Many of these students are placed into developmental courses, which are designed to offer such help before students reach college-level courses. However, here’s the rub: Most of these developmental courses are taught by people who lack a formal education in the teaching of literacy. In fact, many colleges require only a bachelor’s degree in English (a literature-based program, in other words) for teachers of developmental reading and writing courses. Tell me: How is it that someone with a BA, or even a master’s, in English can be expected to know how to teach students the reading and writing skills they so desperately need?

I was guilty of teaching developmental courses without the proper background to do so. I spent three years teaching developmental English at a community college with only a BA in English and an MA in the teaching of English. It wasn’t until I earned my MEd in reading and literacy when I learned a) how ill prepared I was to teach developmental students, and b) how to identify, assess, diagnose, and treat my students’ literacy needs. What’s more—the college textbook market is FLOODED with “reading” textbooks that are filled with pure garbage. And THAT is my professional opinion.

For whatever reason, colleges do not understand that it takes real skill and preparation and KNOWLEDGE to help adult learners improve their literacy. I have colleagues who could not even tell you the basic components of the reading process, yet they teach reading courses every single semester. It isn’t my colleagues’ fault, mind you, they are being set up for failure just as much as our underprepared students. (It really is a shock that colleges do not require an actual background in reading and literacy for their developmental instructors. In the public K-12 system I couldn’t even look at a reading class until I had a special certificate to teach reading.)

It would be wonderful if Professor X could meet all of his students at their level, but I argue that he (and most college instructors of developmental English students) doesn’t possess the ability to do that because he doesn’t know how the reading and writing brain works. How can we expect that of him? (What I do expect is that he respect his students and his needs, though, and I see little evidence of that.)

Issues of Access vs. Ability

Professor X wrote: "No one is thinking about the larger implications, let alone the morality, of admitting so many students to classes they cannot possibly pass. The colleges and the students and I are bobbing up and down in a great wave of societal forces—social optimism on a large scale, the sense of college as both a universal right and a need, financial necessity on the part of the colleges and the students alike, the desire to maintain high academic standards while admitting marginal students—that have coalesced into a mini-tsunami of difficulty. No one has drawn up the flowchart and seen that, although more-widespread college admission is a bonanza for the colleges and nice for the students and makes the entire United States of America feel rather pleased with itself, there is one point of irreconcilable conflict in the system, and that is the moment when the adjunct instructor, who by the nature of his job teaches the worst students, must ink the F on that first writing assignment." (pg. 1)

First, whenever an educator refers to his students as “the worst” it makes me wonder whether he should even be allowed in a classroom. That is such an unhealthy view to have of his students, and I imagine his students know how he feels about them, and they rise right up to meet his expectations. And then everyone loses.

Now, the question of open enrollment and whether it is a moral practice is something I face as a developmental education instructor. College is really difficult for many of my students, and some of them have a long way to go up that developmental climb before they will have a chance at succeeding in college level courses. College is not a realistic option for everyone. I would say that about 10% of the students I have in my developmental classes are not truly able to be successful students when I meet them. The reasons for this vary—some do not yet possess the discipline they need to succeed, some have too many extra-curricular obligations, and few do not seem to have the cognitive ability to do college level work. Now, that’s not to say that some or most of these students won’t be able to succeed in college at some point in their lives. Sometimes they just need to grow up, or wait for their kids to grow up, or save up some money so they can work fewer hours. But, sometimes, and it is rare, but sometimes I will work with a student whose cognitive ability is just not high enough to handle college level work. It is these students who cause me the most inner turmoil. How long should we let them flounder in our developmental courses? Whose job is it to tell them that college just might not be for them?

I recently met with one of my school’s professor/social workers to get some counsel on such a student of mine, and she told me something that helped put me at ease about our system, and it was basically this: Just because we have open enrollment, that does not mean that everyone can or will succeed. It is our job to offer the opportunity to attend college, and it is our students’ job, as adults, to determine whether it is right for them. Some students will try and try and try before they ultimately realize that school isn’t their strength, and that their dreams of earning a college degree aren’t likely to be realized. It is our job to provide them with the opportunity, and the same resources we provide for our other students. It is our job to give them honest feedback about their work. It is not our job to tell a student when to say when. It is not our place.

Underprepared Students as a Profit Machine

“Adult education, nontraditional education, education for returning students—whatever you want to call it—is a substantial profit center for many colleges.” (pg. 3)

Hahahahahaha! This part is a joke, right? We get only a portion of the same funding for developmental courses as we do for “regular level” courses. We are in no way making money off of students who take remedial courses. What’s more, it is a statistical fact (at least in my school) that developmental students who place into more than one developmental course are LESS likely to continue with school after their first semester. In the long run, the developmental climb is often too steep and too discouraging for these students, and they end up leaving school.

In Summary

I teach in the basement of the ivory tower. I love it. My classrooms are filled with really interesting, diverse people who want to become better readers and writers. Many of my students do not realize that they are “developmental” students, and even when they do, that doesn’t get in the way of our learning.

I’m sad to share that I work with colleagues who look at developmental students in the same negative light as this anonymous Professor X, and my instinct tells me that their students all meet their very obvious expectations.

I teach gifted students and I teach developmental students, and these two under served and misunderstood populations are both seriously in need of the same thing: to be met at their level. The problem is that so many instructors of developmental students are so very ill prepared to teach this population that they mistake a lack of foundational knowledge with a lack of ability. These students need someone who can teach them how to develop the skills they failed to develop at the appropriate developmental age, for whatever reason. The last thing they need is one more teacher who has little faith in their ability to improve their skills.

This is an issue of great proportion at the college level. I am no longer shocked when a textbook rep brings me a shiny new $120 reading textbook filled with chapters about summarizing and identifying the topic and main idea. Our instructors rely on these textbooks because they don’t have the preparation they need to create their own material, and the textbooks are written by people who have no formal background in reading and literacy. It is a vicious cycle, and I really have no idea who is to blame. But I know one thing for sure: It’s not our students. Don’t blame the students, because it’s not their fault. They come to us to learn. They pay their tuition for developmental courses that are supposed to help them develop the skills they so desperately need to succeed in a basic college level course. And what do we do? We give them someone like Professor X, who believes they are “the worst” students in the school, and lacks the decency to provide a computer wary student with some formative feedback as she slogs through an essay he is just waiting to mark up with his red pen.

ETA:

Sorry. I made this all about me.

I do not believe that English 101 instructors should be required to teach students how to write a basic sentence. Most colleges have developmental courses for students, and they shouldn't be placing in English 101 if they lack the necessary skills. I wrote my response about the problem that exists for the very students Professor X is discussing, because when these students DO place into a developmental course, they often do not get what they really need to get out of that course. This is obviously my own personal struggle at the moment, as the lone reading specialist in my new position at a community college.

 

[Haven]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

Yes, I was actually more interested in why so many colleges are allowing unprepared students in classes where they clearly shouldn't be. Frustrating for the teacher, potentially demoralizing and unecessarily costly for the student. And of course, ultimately, how do we as a society, handle these types of students - the ones with limited backgrounds or who simply don't want to be there but feel they must be. I had no idea it would elicit such horrified and visceral responses. That was not my intent. At all.

This is a problem that *should* be handled by entrance and exit exams or assessments. My current school gives mandatory entrance exams that will potentially place a student into developmental math, reading, and writing courses. If placed into a developmental course, students are required to take that course in order to enroll in any other courses. At the end of each developmental course students take an exit exam to pass to the next level. Or not.

Currently, about 20% of our students place into developmental reading and/or writing courses, and 33% of our students place into developmental math courses. I am told (by our stats lady--I forget her official position ) that nationally, colleges are reporting that 15 to 35% of their students are placing into developmental courses. These courses exist at most colleges, from community colleges to Harvard. If underprepared students are enrolling in 101 courses, that is a program issue, and the school really needs to look into it and reconsider their placement policies.

 

[yssie]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

Haven - as always, thank you for that thoughtful post. I would love to be a student in your classroom

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

I did not read the article but read some responses and admit I have not found my students to be particularly unprepared.

I wonder if a big part of the reason for this is that the Canadian school system is standardized nationally to a degree, and certainly standardized provincially. We also pool taxes to pay for all schools, so there is not as much variation in highschool quality by area based on income levels. To graduate highschool, students from accross the province must pass a standardized exam in *each* of the subjects for which they hope to earn Grade 12 credit, and must pass five different subjects to boot -- for example, Math, Biology, French, English, and History. This is not an SAT, but an actual subject exam based on the grade 12 curriculum. In addition, to get into most universities requires a highschool average of 75% of higher. This is different than the US system, correct?

We also don't seem to have as many tiers of post-secondary education as there seem to be in the states. There are non-degree granting colleges and there are Universities, and within those categories it is relatively homogenous. All are public, there are no private Universities, though some have more money and are larger than others. We do have a non-degree granting, two-year college system for students desiring a more personal education prior to transitioning to university, or who need to improve their grades to get into university. And recently there has been a move to create more degree-granting universities by making many of the colleges into universities (its own kettle of fish). So more tiering is happening in Canada and it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

But I have not encountered an illiterate student yet. I have had some students expect me to consult their parents about their school work -- something I refuse to do for the supposed adults in my classes -- but that is about the worst.

 

[zoebartlett]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

It bugged me that the author's attitude toward Ms. L. was, "well, I knew from the minute she walked in the door that she was going to fail." It was as if he took no ownership of his JOB and took the opportunity to really teach her. She was doomed right when she walked in that door. No, I don't think that college is the best choice for everyone, but when someone shows up and tries to stick with something that is clearly overwhelming, do your job and support that person.

ETA: I wanted to add that my view is as an elementary teacher, one with no experience teaching higher levels. I teach whoever comes to my grade level. If someone is truly underprepared, then most likely she has an IEP or she is receiving support from our Title I teachers. There are no other classes to put this child in (other than SPED, which are mostly inclusive anyway), unlike at the high school or college level.

 

[ksinger]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

Thanks Haven, for another of the thoughtful, reasoned responses you always give. As usual, I'm always trying to put these issues in a larger cultural framework, such as what education - both pre and post secondary, is supposed to accomplish. I guess I was struck by the author's noting that so many students are there because they HAVE to be, not because they have a burning desire to learn late in life. They're there because the job market increasingly demands they go, which I find disturbing and a bit sad - but then the fact that college has in many cases devolved into glorified vo-tech is my personal little pet-peeve. I just know that never in our history have we had more college grads than we do right now (and so many of them are still unable to find jobs), so this new national paradigm that says every person should be prepared to go to college (should, not "wants") I find to be unrealistic.

The people this teacher - as negative as he may be - is seeing are the people that 30-40 years ago, could have supported themselves decently and with dignity without college. It was in many ways a happier situation for everyone, it was certainly more honest. A person didn't HAVE to be an academic weenie to make a decent living, and the schools - all of them - weren't attempting the unrealistic task of making every single last person a college grad, a task that is doomed to fail IMO, because some just don't really have the desire - and honestly, without at least a bit of the inner fire for learning, it won't happen. At some point you can't point at the teacher anymore and say "well, she didn't motivate me, pet me, hold my hand", as an excuse. And I can only assume that the author's college is not unique in allowing unprepared students into classes that they are almost guaranteed to fail. Apparently many colleges don't give a rat's patootie about real education either.

And it's an unrealistic goal for some of the reasons you cite - such as the lack of knowlege of how to teach those who missed the boat somewhere along the way. Helping those students takes specialized skills and let's be clear, resources like extra money and extra TIME, that at present are scarce. How much of those scarce resources are we going to use for individuals who are, in some cases, almost bottomless pits of need? I don't know the answer, but it's a question that looms large in my mind.

I live in a state where the education stats are some of the absolute worst in the nation - NEAP scores, you name it, so you'll have to forgive me for my seemingly negative views at times. We don't get much good news here on the education front.

ETA - Just this last week, one of my husband's students, a girl for whom he had high hopes - she was, said he, quite smart enough to go to college and reach "escape velocity", wound up pregnant. THIS is the kind of news he deals with almost weekly, it's not uncommon at all. It makes him very sad to know that very likely this girl is now done. She very likely won't go to college, or if she does it will be enormously more difficult for her, and will be much later. Not his fault, but he gets to imbibe from the fountain of sadness and broken dreams along with his kids....

 

[Cozystitches]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

I would love to simply give multiple choice tests. Rather than doing tests or reading the sections and answering the review questions, this week my middle school science students are doing projects. Yes, projects in Science! Some of the projects are covering Chemistry informations (create a Travel Brochure that gives chemical reaction activities) and Physics Info (Travel brochure that outlines Newton's 3 laws as activities!). Was this easy to write? NO! The kids are practicing inquiry in that the instructions are not spelled out to them, Write a cartoon that explains ONE of Newton's Laws, must have 6 frames, colorful and neat. That's the instructions! This is going to be another pain in the rear to grade, but they will get more out of it then just regurgitate answers from the textbook!

GRRRR!!! I'm starting to hate reading the articles that are online because of the ignorance of others toward what teachers actually do!

 

[katamari]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

It is silly to pine for the days when colleges were only populated by the elite. What college instructors like this are ignoring are the extremely bifurcated outcomes for young adults depending on whether or not they have a college degree. There are so many fewer jobs that provide a livable wage or stable employment than there were even in the 90s. There are even less low-end jobs that have any chance for mobility, since moving up the ranks has been replaced by credentialing up the ranks. Without a degree, someone is trapped for life. Sitting around and whining about it being better when these kids weren't in school is like sitting around and whining about how much easier life was before there were automobiles or cell phones. Things have changed, when you don't adapt you are the fool.

Perhaps an even bigger disservice is that, because this guy is an adjunct--basically a temp--he is not able to keep up in his field. His "What do you mean you idiots haven't read works of literature that predate your birth? For shame." attitude is most evident of him not getting it. Students learn from and respect people who are scholars. Being a scholar means keeping on top of both your discipline and pedagogical research related to teaching your discipline. He should be spending his time in the literature rather than freelancing and ignorantly bemoaning.

 

[Circe]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

It is silly to pine for the days when colleges were only populated by the elite. What college instructors like this are ignoring are the extremely bifurcated outcomes for young adults depending on whether or not they have a college degree. There are so many fewer jobs that provide a livable wage or stable employment than there were even in the 90s. There are even less low-end jobs that have any chance for mobility, since moving up the ranks has been replaced by credentialing up the ranks. Without a degree, someone is trapped for life. Sitting around and whining about it being better when these kids weren't in school is like sitting around and whining about how much easier life was before there were automobiles or cell phones. Things have changed, when you don't adapt you are the fool.

Perhaps an even bigger disservice is that, because this guy is an adjunct--basically a temp--he is not able to keep up in his field. His "What do you mean you idiots haven't read works of literature that predate your birth? For shame." attitude is most evident of him not getting it. Students learn from and respect people who are scholars. Being a scholar means keeping on top of both your discipline and pedagogical research related to teaching your discipline. He should be spending his time in the literature rather than freelancing and ignorantly bemoaning.

I don't think that is what he's doing, though: observing that many universities have a laissez faire attitude about enrolling students who don't meet the necessary standards of qualification is a long way off from saying that only those who are familiar with the intricacies of the Social Register should bother to attend.

I think the bigger problem is that college is now the new high-school diploma, gateway to social mobility, and its requirements haven't really changed significantly from the period when it was a luxury for members of the upper class, or intended for those who planned to live a scholarly life. He observes,

"There is a sense that the American workforce needs to be more professional at every level. Many jobs that never before required college now call for at least some post-secondary course work. School custodians, those who run the boilers and spread synthetic sawdust on vomit, may not need college—but the people who supervise them, who decide which brand of synthetic sawdust to procure, probably do. There is a sense that our bank tellers should be college educated, and so should our medical-billing techs, and our child-welfare officers, and our sheriffs and federal marshals. We want the police officer who stops the car with the broken taillight to have a nodding acquaintance with great literature. "

His conclusion is that this isn't so bad, after all: I'd say, it's a sign that we've totally written off our high schools. We no longer expect high school graduates to be even vaguely educated, and thus we force them to prove themselves in a pay-for-play system. That is a problem. And the fact that his experience of encountering fresh college students who can't communicate basic concepts in writing proves the point? Accentuates it.

P.S. - In defense of adjuncts, practically speaking, in terms of qualifications, there's not necessarily much of a difference between tenured and non-tenured faculty these days. Strikes me as a little ironic if we condemn him for writing off his students, and then write him off on similar grounds ....

 

[Haven]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

RE: Adjuncts

I think adjuncts have extremely difficult jobs, and the system exploits them to some extent. They earn only a fraction of the pay FTers earn, and in an effort to cobble together a living wage they often end up teaching far more hours than a FT faculty member teaches. And, they drive all over the state from one school to another to do it.

 

[Circe]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

RE: Adjuncts

I think adjuncts have extremely difficult jobs, and the system exploits them to some extent. They earn only a fraction of the pay FTers earn, and in an effort to cobble together a living wage they often end up teaching far more hours than a FT faculty member teaches. And, they drive all over the state from one school to another to do it.

It also depends on where they're adjuncting, and under what conditions: I went from being TT at a state school to adjuncting at a top private college recently, after my husband was transferred. Adjusting for classes taught, I'm making the same money ... and with no service requirement. I almost think the revolving door on tenure-track positions at the lower level is almost worse: a fair number of my colleagues worked their tails off for 7 years for a relative pittance, were turned down for tenure for debatable reasons, and then had the pleasure of starting over, either as adjuncts, or in different fields entirely. Academia is getting more and more exploitative across the board, from charging unqualified students like the students of Professor X, to short-changing over-qualified instructors, like, if not the obnoxious Professor X himself, certainly some of his fellow adjuncts.

(I know, I know: why am I still doing this, if I have such a bleak view of it? Because I really love teaching, and adore my students ... even the frustrating ones. And because I am starting to think the only hope is for reform from within, which isn't necessarily going to be provided by the people who've had a smooth path to the top ....)

 

[katamari]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

Truth. Truth. (to both my logic and the plight of adjuncts). I suppose I was replying more to ksinger's last post than to the article. Of course, I know ksinger realizes the issue, too, but there is not an option to get rid of the college-for-all model without a million other changes that our society is even less likely to make. His solution to the problem to me still seems to be to trim the fat, but he might be willing to work within the system more than I give him credit for in my original rant.

That said, I still do have a strong distaste for the author's claims viewpoint that he's forced to be an executioner when he could otherwise dedicate his mission to bringing his students up to his standards. If he teaches English 101 and 102, he has a year to improve student's writing and logic, assuming that as contingent faculty who works in the evening, he is likely one of few who teaches these courses after dark. Yes, it is not 13 (K-12) years, but any literate, non-learning disabled young adult can be taught to write a passing research paper and think critically with the proper teaching in one year.

I do believe that his being an adjunct is why he doesn't have the time to learn to teach developmental writing. He says "all any of us wants is a free evening" leading me to believe that he is not able to familiarize himself with pedagogy and current scholarship. Tenure is not a cause-effect solution, but it does have built in requirements for keeping abreast in both teaching and scholarship and it ensures that one doesn't have to work another job or teach 6 courses to make ends meet. Yes, not all adjuncting positions are created equally, but as a whole they do not receive the pay, benefits, or professional cultivation that TT faculty receive, creating huge barriers for adjuncts to be able to produce the same learning in students that TT faculty can. Especially when the majority of adjuncts work with underserved populations teaching the fundamental courses that TT faculty often don't want to teach. In this regard, I feel for the author and all adjuncts.

 

[katamari]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

Academia is getting more and more exploitative across the board, from charging unqualified students like the students of Professor X, to short-changing over-qualified instructors, like, if not the obnoxious Professor X himself, certainly some of his fellow adjuncts.

Word.

 

[ksinger]

Re: For Haven...mostly...and probably most all the teachers

It is silly to pine for the days when colleges were only populated by the elite. What college instructors like this are ignoring are the extremely bifurcated outcomes for young adults depending on whether or not they have a college degree. There are so many fewer jobs that provide a livable wage or stable employment than there were even in the 90s. There are even less low-end jobs that have any chance for mobility, since moving up the ranks has been replaced by credentialing up the ranks. Without a degree, someone is trapped for life. Sitting around and whining about it being better when these kids weren't in school is like sitting around and whining about how much easier life was before there were automobiles or cell phones. Things have changed, when you don't adapt you are the fool.

Perhaps an even bigger disservice is that, because this guy is an adjunct--basically a temp--he is not able to keep up in his field. His "What do you mean you idiots haven't read works of literature that predate your birth? For shame." attitude is most evident of him not getting it. Students learn from and respect people who are scholars. Being a scholar means keeping on top of both your discipline and pedagogical research related to teaching your discipline. He should be spending his time in the literature rather than freelancing and ignorantly bemoaning.

That's fine, but then we need to be honest and adjust our expectations accordingly - like downward. And you see it happening now at the college level with the grade inflation and in our credential-trumps-all mentality.

I also find it interesting (although considering that everyone here save me is a teacher, maybe not surprising) that no one has ever addressed how many of these people find themselves in "college" under what amounts to the duress or our brutal economy. I certainly know I never did well when what I was doing didn't have my full attention or willingness, and there was no amount of encouragement or tap dancing by a person in a position of authority, that made much difference.

Gotta go! I'm off to a jewelry class I WANT to be in! later!