LiW E-presents revisited.... visited a little differently!

[ephemery1]

Here's an engagement-present question... my FI told me long before we were engaged that he wanted a flat-screen TV as an e-present (his friend had just gotten one). I said sure, and occasionally made jokes about making him wait as long as he made me wait for my ring. Flash-forward a year or so, and we're actually engaged (for almost 3 months now)... but I haven't gotten the TV yet. He doesn't nag about it at all, but my friend/MOH occasionally brings it up when we're all together (she wants his old TV

) and then he makes comments like "yeah, when DO I get my TV??

Here's the thing: We were together for 3.5 years before getting engaged, in our late 20s, settled and employed (me in grad school) in the same city. We both honestly and openly knew we wanted to get married after about a year together, but I thought getting engaged at the 2-year mark (or 2-year Christmas, or 3-year mark...) would have been perfect. Instead, he dragged it out... and if anyone remembers my earlier posts, you'll know I was pretty miserable about it. I still remember vividly how out of control I felt over my own future... worst feeling ever. I knew we were getting married, he knew we were getting married... so why did I have to sit around and wait (and answer everyone's endless questions about it) on HIS timeline?? It just felt so unequal and unfair.

Anyway, I've responded to TV questions with a gentle "now you know how I felt", but he says they're not comparable situations. That the TV was supposed to be a gift after getting engaged, no more, no less. I genuinely, truly think that they ARE similar. Knowing that he truly doesn't understand how I felt waiting to be engaged all that time, I can't help but WANT him to understand... in any way possible. I'm not trying to be petty or "teach him a lesson"... I just wish he could experience that sense of waiting for something you want, that you know you're getting... but forced to rely on someone else's initiative. Even though obviously getting a TV isn't on the same level as getting engaged.

Not to mention I've been a grad student for the last 4 out of 5 years, and don't have a ton of money to throw around right now. But I'm just so frustrated by him not understanding, that I feel like giving up and just writing him a check for $2500 and saying "Happy Engagement". Ugh... I know it's not that big a deal, but we talked about it last night, then I had a bad dream so woke up in a miserable mood still thinking about it.

Thoughts please....... I would like to be able to handle this more objectively...

 

[Julian]

First of all, CONGRATULATIONS EPHEMERY on your engagement! You lucky girl, you!!!!!
I'm sure lots of people would love to have your problem!

That having been written, is buying a guy an engagement present a requirement now?

I'm behind on the times! I guess in 2006, if a girl needs a ring to feel engaged then a guy might need a plasma to celebrate too? I just don't like the requirement part of it, like the guy feels entitled to a gift. He gets YOU! Isn't that enough?

Maybe you could buy the TV together when you're married! The MOH is being difficult, I think. Couples have a hard enough time without family putting pressure on them for financial issues and causing ripples. Hang in there! Maybe boys will be boys and they will always have a new excuse for a new Tonka truck/new toy!

*edited to add*
I think sometimes the sweetest of guys can be like kids on Christmas day. I know he should experience the waiting, too! But you know the saying, boys will be boys! I totally understand how you feel. Is it that important that he understand the waiting part? I just don't want you two to have this as a sore spot so that you eye that plasma TV with bitterness once you get it. LOL. I know I would if it caused us to quarrel!

But I understand that you feel he shouldn't push you on YOUR timeline. Because that's what it's all about. You should repsect each others' readiness for major decisions! But boys will be boys... They don't really get it right away!

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 9/9/2006 10:57:06 AM
Author: Julian
I''m sure lots of people would love to have your problem!

Haha... that is SO true... it really is a silly thing to worry about.

But I thought I''d post in LIW since so many people are in the midst of that annoying waiting game themselves and DO understand what it feels like, even if my FI never will!!

The whole "entitlement" thing is so weird... I totally agree. His argument is always that he felt like I (and the rest of the world) thought he "owed" me an engagement ring, when it should have been a gift. Yet I don''t see how that''s any different than my "owing" him a TV now? Other than the fact that he really doesn''t bring it up much, unless prompted by my MOH (who claims she means well and just thinks I should get him the TV like I told him I would).

Ugh... silly, stupid stuff... but it''s just bugging me today. Maybe I''m just being hit by the reality of "oh my God we''re really getting married forever and ever" so I''m finding excuses to nit-pick and obsess over things.

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 9/9/2006 10:57:06 AM
Author: Julian

*edited to add*
I think sometimes the sweetest of guys can be like kids on Christmas day. I know he should experience the waiting, too! But you know the saying, boys will be boys! I totally understand how you feel. Is it that important that he understand the waiting part? I just don''t want you two to have this as a sore spot so that you eye that plasma TV with bitterness once you get it. LOL. I know I would if it caused us to quarrel!

Thank you SO much for adding this... that really is the question behind all this, I think: is it really worth making an issue out of it? I don''t know... in all honesty, probably not.

 

[Siamese Kitty]

Ephemery-

I''m admittedly not 100% familiar with your situation, but I wanted to respond to your dilemma. Yes, it''s true that you told him you''d buy this tv. Yes, it''s true he bought you a GORGEOUS ring. However, I don''t think it is constructive to subconsciously want to "pay him back" or make him realize how you felt. He most likely won''t get it.
That said, I understand how you might be a bit upset, but for other reasons. You are a grad student and he has a regular job? (read:makes more $ than you). If this is the case, I think would be unreasonable for him to expect you to rush out and buy his gift, even if he is just really excited. Even if you could get the money together to do it now, from a financial standpoint, would this be affecting you adversely?
The "engagement present" thing is tricky. Of course you want to go above and beyond for someone who has for you, but there is an underlying sentiment of "bartering" when you match his "this" for your "that". If I were you (and I''m not so please don''t listen to me if I''m way off!!!), I would avoid confrontation/arguments about this. It will suck the romance out of your beautiful engagement.

Maybe you guys could buy the MIL a TV for the next holiday/her upcoming birthday?

Good luck!
Lisa

 

[ephemery1]

SK, financially a $2500 TV probably wouldn''t be the MOST reasonable purchase I could make right now as a grad student with no real income, but he knows that... and I think that''s why he hasn''t asked about it much. It really only comes up when somebody else brings it up first. And it is my friend/maid of honor, not MIL, who wants his old TV... thankfully his mom would never expect such a thing! My friend is awesome and usually pretty reasonable... it is actually her reaction, that I should just buy it like I said I would, that is making me second-guess things. Usually we are on the same wavelength with this kind of stuff.

I think you are right that subconsciously (or consciously!) trying to make him feel what I felt isn''t going to be constructive here. I am a counselor/psychology student, so I spend my life practicing "empathy"... trying to feel what other people feel and get inside their point of view. I sometimes have to remind myself that the rest of the world (including my FI) doesn''t necessarily share that drive, and I can''t expect them to.

And yes, this is definitely sucking some romance out of the whole engagement process... I''m thinking maybe we need to sit down and talk about how badly he wants/needs the TV, and if he would be willing to wait until I''m in a better financial position to buy it or if he wants me to take money out of savings. I assume he''ll say not to worry about it until later. And I''ll just let go of all my weird resentment stuff about him not understanding what it''s like to have to wait. Maybe easier said than done, but I can try!

 

[Fancy605]

I think there is logic in waiting to purchase a TV for him. But my logic has nothing to do with the mental/emotional aspects of the waiting period. I would wait simply because it would give you time to set aside money so that the cost wouldn''t seem so detrimental to your bank account AND because the prices of plasma screen TVs are probably going to drop to a much more reasonable range within the next year or so.

I think that''s how it goes with most technology. Give it a few months. He can probably accept price drops as a valid reason to wait.

 

[Siamese Kitty]

oops! I see now you put MOH, not MIL-sorry. But yes, that makes the situation MUCH easier, doesn''t it.

Good luck with everything-I''m sure it will work out great. Engagements can be stressful times.

 

[aljdewey]

Eph......believe me when I tell you this: there is just no, no way that a man can fully understand what it's like for a woman waiting for an engagement. No matter what you do.

There's also no way that a woman can fully understand how scary and 'jump-off-the-cliff' second-guessing that a man about to propose feels.....even when he knows it's what he wants.

As a couple, it's important to know that you're not going to both be at the same place at the same time. That's true throughout marriage.

Don't let this be a proving ground/sticking point. You ultimately got what you wanted.....and that's really all that matters.

You said you'd get the TV as an engagement present, so you should.....at some point. However, you should do it when it's financially sound for you....the same way we'd tell a man to defer purchasing an e-ring until he could comfortably afford to do so. If a man was planning to propose and he lost his job, we'd likely say "well, you need to wait until you're on stable financial ground again." Same for you.....yes, you promised you'd get the TV, and you will.....when it's financially feasible for you.

As for the MOH.....next time she brings it up, I'd smile and say "We will be getting a new TV at some point, and when we are ready to make that move, we'll be happy to offer this one to you. If you want one more immediately that we can accommodate (and it seems you do), we will absolutely understand, and we won't be offended if you decide to pursue other options to get one sooner."

 

[sk8rjen]

I''m coming in with a different point of view than the others, be forewarned. And I AGONIZED during my waiting period! I know in my heart there is no way that my fiance will ever understand what that wait did to me, though. That said, you agreed to give him a plasma tv for an engagement gift- To celebrate, so each "get" something more than just each other! Since that was the intention of the tv, I think he should have gotten it when you two got engaged, or at least very shortly thereafter. If you knew it wasn''t going to be a sound financial decision, I personally think it should have been discussed at the time, like "down the road we definitely can invest in a nice tv, but it may not be a great financial decision for me - or us -- at this time. What could I get you instead of the tv?" Basically, I see it as you agreed to it AS an engagement gift, not a "somewhere down the road gift" and I don''t think you should make him wait. You said you have savings, so it''s not quite the same as charging it, even though it kinda sucks. My fi was a bit sad draining his savings account for my ring, even though he was happy...it was for the right reasons and we''ll re-build that savings together.

I''m shocking myself, b/c I think under other circumstances, I''d LOVE to see a guy have to wait for something!

jen

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 9/9/2006 2:13:40 PM
Author: sk8rjen
I'm coming in with a different point of view than the others, be forewarned. And I AGONIZED during my waiting period! I know in my heart there is no way that my fiance will ever understand what that wait did to me, though. That said, you agreed to give him a plasma tv for an engagement gift- To celebrate, so each 'get' something more than just each other! Since that was the intention of the tv, I think he should have gotten it when you two got engaged, or at least very shortly thereafter. If you knew it wasn't going to be a sound financial decision, I personally think it should have been discussed at the time, like 'down the road we definitely can invest in a nice tv, but it may not be a great financial decision for me - or us -- at this time. What could I get you instead of the tv?' Basically, I see it as you agreed to it AS an engagement gift, not a 'somewhere down the road gift' and I don't think you should make him wait. You said you have savings, so it's not quite the same as charging it, even though it kinda sucks. My fi was a bit sad draining his savings account for my ring, even though he was happy...it was for the right reasons and we'll re-build that savings together.

Jen, I value different points of view... that's why I posted!

I think your thoughts are similar to those of my MOH. As I said before, she is an awesome, reasonable, intelligent person and we are incredibly close.... so the fact that she doesn't understand my thoughts on this makes me wonder if maybe I'm not being objective enough. She is also pretty free about spending money, so probably hasn't considered that part of it.

Although just to clarify, the conversations my FI and I had about the TV before getting engaged were pretty light... and the conversations afterwards were actually closer to the "down the road we can definitely do it, but may not be a great financial decision right now" variety. My FI is understanding of the fact that I haven't had a ton of earning potential over the past 5 years, and won't for at least another year to come. But obviously he'd like this new TV, and preferably sooner than later.

Regardless, taking the money issue out of it, I like the idea of getting him the TV for his engagement gift... but I don't like the idea that just because he decided he was ready to propose, I'm supposed to not only be waiting patiently, but waiting patiently on hold with Circuit City, ready to reciprocate... ya know? He got to choose his timeline... shouldn't I be allowed to have mine? That's the part that gets to me... that I'm trying very hard to let go of.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 9/9/2006 2:44:41 PM
Author: ephemery1

Regardless, taking the money issue out of it, I like the idea of getting him the TV for his engagement gift... but I don't like the idea that just because he decided he was ready to propose, I'm supposed to not only be waiting patiently, but waiting patiently on hold with Circuit City, ready to reciprocate... ya know? He got to choose his timeline... shouldn't I be allowed to have mine? That's the part that gets to me... that I'm trying very hard to let go of.

Hey there ephemery...

Your post put a bit of a smile on my face...not because I am laughing at you, mind you! But it kind of made me think of the first year living together thread that I started...all good advice, and things we KNOW we should do, but it's SO hard sometimes, isn't it?

The fact that you are counselor/psych student and know certain things are "textbook" , but struggle with those things yourself shows even more how hard human nature/emotions are to combat!

So I'll tell you something that you already know...you gotta let go of that tit for tat thing on this one. Asking someone to marry him is a big thing...something that many men struggle with and it needs to come on its own time...there are so many mental/emotional things tied up with it. Have you ever noticed that when men finally make the jump and ask, they seem to be fine with their decision (provided that it WAS on their own time), whereas so many women are so excited at the PROSPECT of getting engaged, they completely fixate on that. I have heard SO many women say after their engaged say "oh my god...I said yes. Wow, is this really the person I am going to spend the rest of my life with?" and so the doubts start to flow and we go through all that stuff the men go through BEFORE they asked the question. If you ask me, the men have got it right.

Therefore I see a bit of flawed thinking with the part I highlighted up above...he got to choose his timeline because he needed to...it was IMPORTANT that he did. Minus the financial aspect of buying a TV, is there any real emotional tie to buying a TV? It's apples and oranges I tell ya! Although finances are obviously a big obstacle to getting this TV, I really believe that a big part of the reason why you are putting it off because you want to make him suffer, as you did. Now, is this any way to treat someone you love? I promise you ephemery, bigger issues will come down the road than this, and things will NOT be fair. The overwhelming advice given on the aforementioned thread I started, is that couples have to do away with he idea that FAIR = equal. It is not.

You seem like a great girl, with a fantastic head on your shoulders, so I have all the confidence in the world that you and FI will work it out.

 

[sk8rjen]

So what''d you decide to do? just curious....

jen

 

[akw94]

Hi Ephemery,
I just saw this thread and agree w/bits and pieces of what others have said. I definitely agree that he will never understand how you felt. Using the tv as a means to get him to understand just won''t work. They just don''t think the way we do. And a tv isn''t the same as being engaged so I just don''t think he''ll make the connection the way you''d like him to. I agree that it would be nice but not realistic. Try to focus on how you felt when you initially said you''d get him the tv. That''s what buying the tv should be about, not the making him wait part or like others have said, you may come to resent that tv or him.
That being said, I don''t think you should wipe out your savings to get a tv. That''s partly just coming from me, someone who doesn''t value that sort of thing that much...so take it only for what it''s worth. I think you should talk to him about it and see if he''s ok w/waiting until it''s a good time for you. Maybe you can give him an approximate time that you''ll be ready to buy. I guess I just think the most important thing is to separate not buying the tv now for financial reasons vs. not buying to make him suffer.
Don''t get me wrong, as someone who is "waiting", I would *love* for him to understand how I feel, but I have to come to realize that it just won''t happen.
And as others have said, I would hate to see your engagement dampered by the tv issue. It''s not worth it!

Take care!

 

[ephemery1]

Oops... I didn't realize I never responded to TG's post!! Sorry guys... I really appreciated everybody's insight into this little psychodrama I created for myself, and haven't spent much more time dwelling on it since I woke up in that miserable mood Saturday... which is a good thing!

I think TG's reminder that fair does not always mean equal is really important. As much as I would love to inhabit a perfect world where everyone strives to understand everyone else's point of view in every matter, it probably isn't going to happen. And whether or not my fiance understands how I felt with the whole "out of control of my own future" thing during that waiting period, doesn't change the positive things about the relationship we share. Again, the pscyhologist in me likes to address any and all potential issues NOW NOW NOW. If there is a miscommunication, I like to talk about it. If there is a lack of understanding, I want to explain my view. Or in this case... show him. But I recognize that's not always practical OR constructive, depending on the situation. It was definitely a stretch to expect my little "waiting for engagement = waiting for TV" metaphor to create any major breakthroughs in the grand scheme of things.

As for the matter of buying the TV on my student budget, we talked a while ago about how prices were supposed to be coming down by the fall/winter so I'll have to look into that (as Fancy also confirmed). At the time we'd first talked about engagement presents, I was working full-time and hadn't made the decision to go back to school yet. So now that I'm living off what's left of those paychecks, the TV would have to come out of the small amount of money that my grandmother left me when she died, which I'd put into a savings account intended for baby stuff when I have my first baby (sort of a tribute to the great-grandmother they'd never get to know

). But I'll be in school for at least another year, so if I don't use the baby money, he'll be waiting a long time for his e-present (and God help us if I actually go onto a PhD program after that

). I have to see what he thinks about it...