don't leave your jewelry in the tray...

[Dancing Fire]

http://news.yahoo.com/video/miamicbs4-15750840/lauderdale-rolex-thief-caught-on-camera-28307768.html#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Fmiamicbs4-15750840%252Flauderdale-rolex-thief-caught-on-camera-28307768.html

 

[maplefemme]

A customs officer stole my watch from the tray in Alicante, Spain as I was departing the country.
They had it all planned out, quite the scam...

I hope they catch this guy

 

[Enerchi]

Moron! All those cameras around - was this a smart thing to do???

 

[kenny]

IMHO, this is different than stealing the watch by force or by pickpocketing.

The owner was negligent and lost it, then this guy found it.
It happened in a public place, not in the owner's home.

That only seconds elapsed between the lost and the found events, that the owner was the person in front of him and very possibly still visible, that the location was an airport so it was captured on video which is now broadcast for all of us to see changes nothing besides converting it into a tantalizing news story.

I'm not saying it's right for him to keep it, (I wouldn't) but I don't think what he did was a crime.
IMHO the ethical thing for him to do is to run ahead and return the watch to the owner if he recognizes him/her, or turn it in to lost and found, but I suspect he may be within his legal rights to keep what he found.

Ethics and law are not the same thing.
Are there laws that require you to turn in something found if it is over a certain value?

 

[Dancing Fire]

IMHO, this is different than stealing the watch by force or by pickpocketing.

The owner was negligent and lost it, then this guy found it.
It happened in a public place, not in the owner's home.

That only seconds elapsed between the lost and the found events, that the owner was the person in front of him and very possibly still visible, that the location was an airport so it was captured on video which is now broadcast for all of us to see changes nothing besides converting it into a tantalizing news story.

I'm not saying it's right for him to keep it, (I wouldn't) but I don't think what he did was a crime.
IMHO the ethical thing for him to do is to run ahead and return the watch to the owner if he recognizes him/her, or turn it in to lost and found, but I suspect he may be within his legal rights to keep what he found.

Ethics and law are not the same thing.
Are there laws that require you to turn in something found if it is over a certain value?

that's what some of the members are saying on the watch forum...

 

[VRBeauty]

Not so fast!

Per Wikipedia:

Lost, mislaid, and abandoned property are categories of the common law of property which deals with personal property which has left the possession of its rightful owner without having directly entered the possession of another person. Property can be considered lost, mislaid or abandoned depending on the circumstances under which it is found by the next party who obtains its possession.. Property is generally deemed to have been lost if it is found in a place where the true owner likely did not intend to set it down, and where it is not likely to be found by the true owner.

Sometimes common law reflects common sense!

 

[kenny]

I don't have the answer, just questions.

 

[Jennifer W]

Well, the answer in most jurisdictions is that it would be a criminal act. I'm sure it will vary around the world, but here it would meet the legal definition of theft and there is no grey area at all, that would be a theft. Not an ethical judgment, just a legal fact. No rule as to the minimum value, either. Well, not where I live, anyway - other people's property is other people's property. I suppose the distinction would be drawn by the prosecution service, who would decide if prosecuting was in the public interest or not.

Here, you commit theft by depriving the owner of any of the benefits of ownership of the property, for a nefarious purpose. So, taking a watch would deprive the owner of the benefit of owning and wearing it. You don't have to 'steal' the item in the sense of pickpocketing it or robbing it, just take or deprive. That's why wheel clamping is illegal in Scotland. An enterprising wheel clamping company moved into Scotland and tried to have a fine enforced in Court. They ended up being prosecuted themselves for theft (and I believe the prosecution service threw in extortion too, for good measure) because the deprived the legal owner of one of the benefits of ownership of his car (that benefit being the ability to drive it).

So, if he'd done this in Scotland, he'd have stolen the watch. How does it work in other places?

 

[maplefemme]

Not so fast!

Per Wikipedia:

Lost, mislaid, and abandoned property are categories of the common law of property which deals with personal property which has left the possession of its rightful owner without having directly entered the possession of another person. Property can be considered lost, mislaid or abandoned depending on the circumstances under which it is found by the next party who obtains its possession.. Property is generally deemed to have been lost if it is found in a place where the true owner likely did not intend to set it down, and where it is not likely to be found by the true owner.

Sometimes common law reflects common sense!

But the owner of the watch did intend to set it down in the tray, they purposefully put it there, it didn't fall off their wrist so that doesn't apply. When they figured out they'd forgotten it they went back to find it. It's only not likely to be be found by the true owner because the guy behind her took it before she came back.
If that's the case, people leave their cars out of their possession in mall parking lots all the time, many times they forget where they parked, is that abandonment, is that lost? Can I go take my pick, because a free second car would come in handy

 

[Imdanny]

It depends where you found it but VRBeauty has a point. That would be illegal here. I did this research when SO found a cellphone someone left in th bathroom at the complex where he works. Infound that the legal answer was we could not keep it. SOnhad a legal obligation to turn it in to lost and found. I sent the phone to it's owner in Texas. What a hassle. The next time SO can turn it in or just leave it there.

 

[movie zombie]

the wrong thing to do would be to have given it to "security" and expected it to end up in a lost and found area....someone along that line would have lifted it and none would have been the wiser....

 

[maplefemme]

It depends where you found it but VRBeauty has a point. That would be illegal here. I did this research when SO found a cellphone someone left in th bathroom at the complex where he works. Infound that the legal answer was we could not keep it. SOnhad a legal obligation to turn it in to lost and found. I sent the phone to it's owner in Texas. What a hassle. The next time SO can turn it in or just leave it there.

I hope they sent you something nice for doing that?
About 10 years ago I found a clutch wallet on the toilet tank in a bar. I opened it to find the owner's ID, it was packed with crisp $50s, I'm talking $1,000's. I didn't want to hand it in to the bar staff because I didn't trust them not to steal her money. I took her drivers license and worked my way through the packed bar trying to find her. I found someone who resembled the license photo and asked her if she'd lost her purse. She suddenly realized she had and I asked her name, it matched the license. I passed her the purse, I got a flippant 'thanks' and she turned away. No hero cookie

Edited - spelling errors abound

 

[Imdanny]

That sucks MF. I take it you know what I mean by "hassle" then. Yes, he sent me a 50 USD gift certificate (that I think he already had anyway ) to the most expensive spa here. You can only get a manicure for that and I would have had to come up with the the tip so we ended up not using it.

 

[Lew Lew]

It's mislaid property, not lost or abandoned. For mislaid property, the finder has a duty to turn it over to the owner of the premises where the mislaid property was found.

 

[Dancing Fire]

here's a honest guy...

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9529858.Street_cleaner_strikes_gold_by_finding___21_000_Rolex_watch/

 

[maplefemme]

That sucks MF. I take it you know what I mean by "hassle" then. Yes, he sent me a 50 USD gift certificate (that I think he already had anyway ) to the most expensive spa here. You can only get a manicure for that and I would have had to come up with the the tip so we ended up not using it.

Ah well, hopefully the universe tallied the good karma for you and something nice comes your way in return

 

[anne_h]

MF - that's too bad about the bar lady! She really should have been more appreciative. That was good of you.

Once I found a small leather wallet full of credit cards, etc. on the sidewalk. I figured it was more likely someone would find it and potentially use for bad versus the owner come back and be able to retrieve it in time, so I took it home. I found the owner online by the name on the cards. So I called and left a voicemail. She called me back the next day, identified the wallet, and came to pick it up.

The lady was probably in her fifties. I gave her the wallet and she gave me twenty dollars for my trouble. She told me she lost it while going to visit a friend the night before. And that it was the second time she had lost her wallet recently and she was so glad to avoid the hassle with the banks for a second time!

Anne

 

[maplefemme]

MF - that's too bad about the bar lady! She really should have been more appreciative. That was good of you.

Once I found a small leather wallet full of credit cards, etc. on the sidewalk. I figured it was more likely someone would find it and potentially use for bad versus the owner come back and be able to retrieve it in time, so I took it home. I found the owner online by the name on the cards. So I called and left a voicemail. She called me back the next day, identified the wallet, and came to pick it up.

The lady was probably in her fifties. I gave her the wallet and she gave me twenty dollars for my trouble. She told me she lost it while going to visit a friend the night before. And that it was the second time she had lost her wallet recently and she was so glad to avoid the hassle with the banks for a second time!

Anne

Ah well, Anne, I'll take the good Karma, that's enough!

That was really nice of you, cash is unfortunate to loose, but it's the ID and indentity theft that can really cause havoc, I agree.

Last night I walked the dogs in the green space behind my house and found a kids school binder. It had a lot of work in it, I figured the kid had drop it out of their backpack or had bullies take it, etc.
I took it home and called the school but it was closed, too late. I found a receipt for school fees and it had the kid's address on it so I called directory and got their phone number.
Well needless to say, when I called, the Mother panicked and discovered that her Daughter had left her backpack in their vehicle and it had been broken into and they'd been robbed of everything in it. Then she got awfully defensive and accusatory because she thought it was ME who'd broken in! She refused to talk to me further and put her husband on.
I calmly explained everything to him and asked them over to my house to pick it up.
They came right over and quickly calmed down when they realized I'm actually not robber material!
Very nice people, I felt bad for them.