Dog behavior problem

[packrat]

So, we have a Cavalier named Chicken. She''s 4. She pees. I can not get her to stop. When our other dog Sadie was alive (passed last November), we had a big dog bed they slept on, and we assumed it was Sadie not having control of her bladder, being old. Well, after Sadie was gone, it kept happening.

This is the odd part-if she sleeps in the kitchen, just on the linoleum w/no rug or bed, she doesn''t pee. If she sleeps on anything else, pees. (not always, but most times) After Sadie was gone, we had started letting Chicken sleep w/London at night, not knowing at first about the incontinence. After we figured it out, Chicken was confined to the kitchen-she peed on my couch once too, so she''s basically no longer allowed anywhere but the kitchen.

I''ve let her outside to go the bathroom, let her back in, and if there''s something soft on the floor (once my dish towel had fallen off the side of the sink), she''ll scratch at it to bunch it up and squat on it.

Called the vet last year, and he gave us pills to try. It did seem to help, and we ran out last week so I thought to try her off of them and see what happened. She did ok in London''s room for 2 nights, sleeping in there off and on. Then last night, I let her back in and while I was here on the computer I could hear her scratching at the rag rug on the floor, so I turned around quietly to watch, and sure enough, she went on it.

I''m at my wits end with her. Vet told JD he thinks it''s a behavioral problem. Do you think if we put her back on the pills (Liberace pills we call them..famous pianist..haha well, we think we''re funny anyway) and were super diligent about walking her (which we''ve not been very good about) it would maybe make a difference?

JD was at first thinking it was the breed-but I researched Cavaliers for a full year, bought magazines and books and looked at everything I could find on the internet. *I* think the problem is that she didn''t come from a great breeder. JD wouldn''t let me have MY way, so we went to a different breeder and once I saw the conditions she was living in, I couldn''t leave her there. So, I think it''s bad genes, and not her fault. (And, I exerted my wifely force, and told JD when we''re ready for another Cavalier, we will be going where I want this time, to bypass the bad breeding problems!)

Jeez, this is like a novel.

My problems also extend to-we''re getting a new puppy (will be asking for help on names too) hopefully in the next few weeks, and I don''t want it to learn this bad habit from Chicken. And, I don''t want it to be a case where, the new puppy can sleep with the kids and be on the couch and have free reign over the house, but Chicken is banned from everywhere but the kitchen.

Does anyone have any clue what we could try?

Sorry this is so dang long!

 

[tiffanytwisted]

My friend has a cavalier and she has the same problem. She did find some cavalier message boards where people discussed it, and she thinks it is a problem with the breed (in general). She also researched cavaliers a lot before getting one, and didn''t discover this until after the fact.
One thing she tried that worked well is a belly band. It''s just a fabric wrap that velcroes around their abodmen but they don''t pee on it because they don''t want to get it wet. I''ll see if I can find some online to show you. She found them online and then ended up making some.
good luck!

 

[tiffanytwisted]

Here''s the link: http://www.sassypup.net/Belly-Bands-Dog-Diapers-p-1-c-357.html

 

[somethingshiny]

First make sure your dog doesn''t have a medical condition like a UTI (they can''t hold it). Second, deodorize all the pee spots in your house. If a dog can still smell pee, it means it''s okay to go there. Third, crate her. Only let her out of the crate when you have the time to keep your eye on her. She shouldn''t pee in her crate and you''ll basically be potty training her. So, make sure you take her out frequently and reward her for going.

Also, watch her closely. Maybe you''re missing her "signal" that she needs to go out. If you see her doing a certain behavior right before she pees, immediately take her to the door and make her bark or scratch or whatever YOU want the signal to be.

 

[Maisie]

This might amuse you. Make sure you read right till the end.

http://www.slate.com/id/2149364/

 

[packrat]

Thanks for the replies Tiffany and SS!

I''ll check out those doggie diapers-thanks! haha pull ups for my dog hehe

I''ll take her up to the vets and see if they can catch a urine sample too in case of UTI like SS suggested. I think she''d have to be cathed-she''s so timid, there''s no way I could follow her around and try to slide a bowl under her when she goes. I''d wondered about an infection before, but I figured w/the "selective" accidents, only on soft things, that it was just her, but still to be on the safe side, I''ll have her checked.

Usually at night if she has to go, she barks. I would put her out before I went to bed, and JD would put her out when he came home after work at night, and she''d still go on something soft. Unless she''s on the linoleum, then she doesn''t go, ever. If she needs let out then, she''ll bark and I''ll get up. It''s so odd.

When we first got her, she was in a crate at night or when we weren''t home. We quit b/c Sadie was never crate trained (When JD and I got together, we tried, but there was no teaching that old dog a new trick-she ate her way out of the kennels) and it drove Chicken nuts to be crated while Sadie wasn''t. If Sadie were a human, she would''ve sat right outside the crate and went "Pbbbbtt haha you''re in there and I''m not"-she was a difficult dog. So we pretty much quit the crating and let them sleep together. I don''t recall any problems w/peeing on stuff until about a year ago, maybe a little more.

Chicken''s nervous, timid, submissive. Can she still be crate trained without messing w/her mind any more than it already is? I bet it''s been 3 years or so since she''s been crated.

 

[packrat]

Date: 9/8/2009 8:07:19 PM
Author: Maisie
This might amuse you. Make sure you read right till the end.

http://www.slate.com/id/2149364/

First, I have a crush on Cesar Milan.

Second, maybe there is hope for Chicken! I do need to be better about walks and playing with her more. Maybe that will help!

 

[D&T]

Sorry Pack- no advice, but I just wanted to say how awesome are you to rescue these doggies, and what a great name... "Chicken"!

I love it!

 

[packrat]

Hehe Thanks D&T! Her full name is Chicken Little Hasenpheffer! She''s so little and cute but does seem to have issues.

The place we got her raises about 5 breeds of dogs. All that I saw were dirty, and just generally looked uncared for. I felt so bad for them. He''s got a full time job besides the dogs, and I just don''t think you can do that plus take care of and pay attention to 50 dogs. She was the only one of the litter that made it, and when I saw her and her big ole buggy eyes, I just couldn''t walk away and leave her after that.

The contrast to that, is the breeder we went to, to begin with. She''s the only breeder w/in 1 1/2 hours of here that isn''t a backyard breeder, that I could find on the internet. She shows her dogs-Westminster and all that. She lives in a ginormous home and one whole wing of the house belongs to the dogs. We visited her so we could see the breed and how they behaved around London, who was not quite 2 at the time. We pulled up and they have one of those huge touring buses-like the Meet The Fokkers bus-that they use to take the dogs to shows. Gorgeous and so well behaved, these dogs of hers. AND-here''s the kicker-when her dogs are whatever age, she doesn''t show them anymore, so she rehomes them. She offered us our pick of about 4 dogs, for free. FREE. She asked for 1 more mating out of the dog, she''d pay all expenses etc. Then she would sign the dog over. JD said NO b/c it wouldn''t be a puppy, already had a name, and already had habits. (um yeah, hi, potty trained and crate trained-those are good habits) But, the puppies were twice what we could afford, so I was SOL-until we found this other guy. So, it has been made known that down the road, I''ll be contacting that breeder again.

I''m talkative tonight, jeez!

 

[D&T]

Date: 9/8/2009 8:47:52 PM
Author: packrat
Hehe Thanks D&T! Her full name is Chicken Little Hasenpheffer! She''s so little and cute but does seem to have issues.

The place we got her raises about 5 breeds of dogs. All that I saw were dirty, and just generally looked uncared for. I felt so bad for them. He''s got a full time job besides the dogs, and I just don''t think you can do that plus take care of and pay attention to 50 dogs. She was the only one of the litter that made it, and when I saw her and her big ole buggy eyes, I just couldn''t walk away and leave her after that.

The contrast to that, is the breeder we went to, to begin with. She''s the only breeder w/in 1 1/2 hours of here that isn''t a backyard breeder, that I could find on the internet. She shows her dogs-Westminster and all that. She lives in a ginormous home and one whole wing of the house belongs to the dogs. We visited her so we could see the breed and how they behaved around London, who was not quite 2 at the time. We pulled up and they have one of those huge touring buses-like the Meet The Fokkers bus-that they use to take the dogs to shows. Gorgeous and so well behaved, these dogs of hers. AND-here''s the kicker-when her dogs are whatever age, she doesn''t show them anymore, so she rehomes them. She offered us our pick of about 4 dogs, for free. FREE. She asked for 1 more mating out of the dog, she''d pay all expenses etc. Then she would sign the dog over. JD said NO b/c it wouldn''t be a puppy, already had a name, and already had habits. (um yeah, hi, potty trained and crate trained-those are good habits) But, the puppies were twice what we could afford, so I was SOL-until we found this other guy. So, it has been made known that down the road, I''ll be contacting that breeder again.

I''m talkative tonight, jeez!

Wow! bummer pack,,, maybe next time, then JD will listen ehh?

 

[packrat]

haha, yeah, if he knows what''s good for him he will!

 

[gemgirl]

I''m sorry packrat, I have no tips to share with you, but I did find this website helpful for other types of behavioral problems. Maybe there''s something there that can help you.

http://www.barkbusters.com/

 

[Haven]

My best friend has a Cavalier and they had this exact same problem for about two years.
We have a rescue bulldog mix, and she''s never had an accident in the house.

We were comparing notes about our dogs a couple weeks ago because my friend''s dog had gotten so bad he was having two or three accidents in the house each week. The biggest difference between the way we care for our dogs is the walking--we take our Bailee out for several long walks a day, and my friend only takes her pup out for a few short walks or none at all. We both have big backyards, but they rely on their yard a lot and instead of taking him for a walk, they just let him out in the yard to go.

We''re big fans of Cesar Millan, so we use his advice and take Bailee out for a 1-2 mile walk first thing in the morning before work, another 1-2 mile walk in the late afternoon after work, and then a shorter 3/4 walk right before bed. We also play fetch outside (or this chasing game DH created to play inside when the weather''s bad) to give her exercise.

Now, here''s the key: When we''re out for our walks Bailee pees between four and eight times, and she poops once or twice. When my friend''s Cavalier is let out into the yard he pees once or twice, and maybe he poops, maybe he doesn''t. SO, after we talked she started taking her pup for mile walks in the morning, and lo and behold! No more accidents. (He was having most of his accidents in the morning shortly after she let him in from the yard and while she was getting ready for work.)

If you aren''t taking her for decent walks every day, I''d definitely try it. A mile walk only takes about 15 minutes at most, so it doesn''t even take that much time.

Good luck!

 

[sparklyheart]

I have to agree with somethingshiny on the crate training. It may help her a lot if she is so shy and timid. The crate it often a safe place for dogs who are used to them. I know my dog freaks out if she can''t get to her crate (even if nothing is wrong!). It also disciplines them. Since she pees on soft things, it may be difficult to keep the crate clean in the beginning but eventually she will get to were she won''t want to be stuck in a crate with a smelly pillow/towel/whatever. Also, do you guys watch her pee when she goes outside? She may be going out there, smelling the flowers, chasing birds, chasing bees, but not peeing! Make sure you see her pee and not just for 2 seconds. Someone else suggested taking her for longer walks more frequently which may also help. She may just not be able to hold much in her bladder. After 4 years, she probably thinks nothing of the fact that she pees everywhere. You can retrain her by consistently reinforcing good behaviors and letting her know when she does something wrong. When she pees outside, make a HUGE deal about it, give her treats, prasie her, whatever gets her excited.. When she pees inside, tell her bad girl and put her outside immediately! I was slightly anal about potty training my dogs and I taught them to ring a bell when they wanted to go outside. If they even so much as sniffed at the ground, I took them to the door, hit the bell with their paw, and took them out. It''s definitely tough to train an older dog (I''m working on the jumping thing.. argh) but if you are consistent then she should do better. The medicine couldn''t hurt either.. Dogs just want to please people and if there really is something wrong with her it''s probably going to make it very hard for her to hold it all in! Good luck!!

 

[luv2sparkle]

Wow, that is such a bummer. It sounds like a breed issue. I vote for the doggie diapers. When you get your new pup, I would definitely crate
train and take the dog outside. We have always done this and have taught our dogs to pee on command. It just takes telling them to pee over
and over and then praising them when they do and before long they will pee when you tell them to. I hope you find a solution, that would make
me nuts-good luck!

 

[violet3]

Date: 9/9/2009 2:20:40 PM
Author: luv2sparkle
Wow, that is such a bummer. It sounds like a breed issue. I vote for the doggie diapers. When you get your new pup, I would definitely crate
train and take the dog outside. We have always done this and have taught our dogs to pee on command. It just takes telling them to pee over
and over and then praising them when they do and before long they will pee when you tell them to. I hope you find a solution, that would make
me nuts-good luck!

I am not quite sure that it is a breed issue, although I am sure numerous people with cavaliers could debate it either way (as with any other smaller breed). I have a cavalier, and I have a couple of friends with them as well. As far as I am aware, no one I know has a peeing issue with their cavaliers.

I have a four year old male - the only time he ever had a probelm was when he was 7 or 8 months until the time he was fixed (a little over a year). Being a male, he had a serious marking issue for his own territory....it drove me nuts, particularly since he was housetrained so early in his life and never had an accident. I called the breeder for help - I was trying to keep him "in tact" so he could be bred once. She highly recommended the belly-bands mentioned above, and said they would make him "embarrassed" to pee on himself and then make him stop. It never really came to that because it drove me so crazy, that I had to have him fixed to keep my sanity - it stopped immediately. By chance, is chicken fixed? i know she's a female, but sometimes they have some dominance issues too.....i knew a crazy, marking, female chihuahua once - i thought she was a male!

I whole-heartedly agree with a couple of things mentioned above - first, the walking - i agree with Haven. It's likely Haven's friends dog wasn't going potty because she wasnt' in the yard with him/her. Cavs are very attached and they want to be where you are, so if they are outside and you aren't, lots of times they just want to come back in and see what you are up to.

I particularly echo the idea of the crating!!!! I have crated Rip since he was teeny and still do when i am away for a day's work (for a few hours alone, he can stay out). He doesn't need it perse, but the discipline is good for him and when I come home, the first thing he wants to do is go outside and take care of business. I think it's the best way to instill housetraining to a dog.

I hope everything clears up with Chicken! Please let us know how it goes! incidentally, what kind of puppy are you getting? is it another Cav? if so, I would really like to see pictures!!!

 

[packrat]

Thanks for all the replies and help everyone-I appreciate it!

I hope it''s not a breed issue-if it is, that would put the kibosh on getting another one when Chicken''s gone. I told JD that during the whole year I spent obsessing over this breed on the internet, not once did I see anything about peeing issues. I''m still thinking it''s a product of improper breeding-she also walks like she''s got a cob lodged-something I never noticed on the (good) breeders dogs, and her back is super curved, like she''s arching it. Again, something that was not apparent in the (good) breeders dogs.

And, I think we''re partially to blame for the peeing since she doesn''t get walked and we gave up on the crate training. We''ll get a bigger crate for her and start walking and playing w/her more. The crate we have now is from when she was little, but will work for the new puppy for a while. And we''ll put her back on her Liberace meds. I''ll ask the vet when we''re up there about doing a urine test on her. Cover all my bases!

The new puppy will be a Jack Russell. This is the breed JD wanted me to get instead of a Cav, so now that our other dog has passed, JD gets his JRT. We''ve gotten pictures of one we''re thinking of, and are waiting to hear back what they''re asking for him.

 

[basil]

I don''t think peeing is a breed issue with Cavaliers, anymore than any other small dogs. But small dogs are more likely than big dogs to have housebreaking problems.

The biggest issue with Cavaliers is mitral valve disease...a genetic heart problem that puts them into heart failure at a young age. My parents Cavalier developed it at about 8 and lived until age 10, with a lot of medications and vet visits. So you''ll need your vet to keep on top of that with Chicken and make sure that she doesn''t develop a heart murmur.

I think it might be a good idea to start over with Chicken in terms of housebreaking, and since you''ll already be doing it with your new puppy it might be a good time. Make sure that you go out with her (them) very frequently (like - every hour to start with) and reward her with treats when she pees outside and then the rest of the time keep her in the crate without anything soft to pee on.

 

[packrat]

Guess who''s not a complete cob lately??

JD is in total amazement..as am I. Argh-I almost hate to say anything in case I jinx it.

We seriously thought we were going to have to put Chicken down. Whoda thunk a couple nice walks and more play time would make such a big difference? She''s not peed on London''s bed once since we started this. Granted, she''s still on her Liberace meds (haha it''s funny, the vet puts a sticker on the bottle like at the people pharmacy, and it says "Chicken Ourlastname" with the dosing directions) and we let her out often. We walked up to get London from school today, and JD brought Chicken-usually with that many people around she''d freak out and make her chicken cooing noises. Nothing. She hung out and enjoyed the attention from a few kids that stopped by to pet her.

The first day of walks she pulled so hard I thought for sure she was going to strangle herself. She made all kinds of screechy chicken noises..it was like we were sitting in a chicken coop and there was a fox in there. Each walk got better and better.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice and let you know that it''s been working wonders for my Chicken!

 

[tiffanytwisted]

Thanks for the update. Good to hear things are better!!

 

[soocool]

My neighbor has a poodle/cavalier mix (3 yrs old) and he does the same thing. He can be outside for a couple of hours and as soon as she brings him in he pees. She has 2 other dogs, a poodle/spaniel mix and a sheltie (sheltie is 7 months old and has never peed inside) and has never had a problem with these 2 dogs.