Does relationship counseling really work?

[jaysonsmom]

....to keep people together? When 2 people are funadamentally just incompatible, everyone jumps to suggest counseling, but from my experiences with friends who have gone through relationship counseling, they usually come out with the realization that they are individuals who should put themselves first, and theyr happiness first. All of the couples I know who have gone through counseling ended up happily single for a while until the find their soulmate.

I guess that skews my opinion about the effectiveness of relationship counseling and "working things out". I guess what my take is, is that you have to keep seeking the best match for a partner versus trying to make someone your best match because that takes too effort, and a good match would not take that much effort no? Give me your thoughts, I'm very biased from what I've seen around me.

 

[rubybeth]

From what I've read on the subject (I am a big reader ), relationship counseling CAN work, but couples usually go into counseling much too late for it to make a big difference. Like, years too late. Also, dating sites use similar backgrounds and common areas of interest to match people because having things in common (religion, education levels, etc.) is important to lasting marital happiness.

ETA: I think couples really do need to have some common goals and realistic expectations before getting married, and both be mentally healthy.

 

[jaysonsmom]

In the last 3 months, one of my friends, and my cousin both filed for divorce. When I asked if they'd tried counseling, both said they were going in the last 4-6 months of their marriage, but realized that it was going nowhere. So maybe timing IS key.

My brother is currently in counseling (but more for personal anger issues), and he said he's benefiting a lot from his personal growth, but he still can't be himself around his wife, he said he always feels like he's walking on eggshells around her. Many of his friends have told him they need couple's counseling, but I feel that it just holds people together, and prolongs misery that much longer. If you are around someone who is always bringing out the worst in you, it's probably not a good idea to stay around that person longer?

 

[kenny]

Sometimes.

 

[jaysonsmom]

I want to hear success stories....anyone have one?

 

[NewEnglandLady]

My aunt and uncle with through counseling 20+ years ago after my aunt had a miscarriage, but I think that is a situation where they both realized they didn't have the tools to deal with the grief and didn't want their marriage to suffer. Sort of like proactive counseling, I guess, and they've been happily married for decades.

My sister and her husband briefly tried counseling before getting divorced, but I would agree it was too late. Besides, they both thought they were right, so it was one of those situations where neither thought they needed couples counselling, they both thought the other needed individual counseling.

 

[sillyberry]

I think it depends on WHY and WHEN people go to counseling. To me, it's like any doctor. Sometimes you have a nagging ache that is easily fixed, if only you went to someone with some expertise in fixing it. Other times you are in critical condition and even the best doctor can't do anything to resolve the issue.

You're probably right that if fundamental incompatibilities exist, no counselor can change things. But sometimes just talking to a third party about how to communicate better (since it seems so much is about communication) can be really helpful.

I got free counseling sessions while in school, so my then-boyfriend and I went and did a few sessions. Nothing was really wrong, but there were a few issues where we just were having a really hard time understanding where the other was coming from. Every time we tried to discuss the issues ourselves, it tended to be when we were already disagreeing. Having a third party to talk with helped IMMENSELY. We were both able to articulate what bugged us, figure out how to compromise, and then learn how to apply these compromises in the future.

I'm sure some people are born knowing how to do this, or for whatever reason have better developed skills, or are just so perfect for one another that it comes naturally. I know some people say that if you have to get counseling prior to marriage, why on earth would you get married? We are two people with very different backgrounds and our ways of relating didn't always mesh. But we love each other and are committed to each other, so if we could figure out how to be better at that...why not?

 

[kenny]

I want to hear success stories....anyone have one?

Mine worked.
With the help of therapy I finally escaped a jerk I wasted 13-years with.

IMHO, success is a measure of YOU not the relationship.

 

[havernell]

I don't think the "goal" of couples counseling should ever explicitly be to keep the couple together. I think the point should be to help both parties learn about what the real issues are in their relationship, learn how they are each contributing to the current problems, and assess whether there are ways to compromise and work together on those issues or not. A lot of times, it's much better for the couple to separate rather than stay together. So, I wouldn't look at is as if the counseling is not "working" if the couple splits up in the end. I don't think you necessarily meant to imply that with your thread title or question, jaysonsmom, but I just wanted to make the point none-the-less. I think when people on PS suggest couples counseling to PSers going through relationship issues, they do so because they want the couple to find the best outcome for them, and I suspect a lot of posters believe that the best outcome would actually be for counseling to facilitate a break up not keep the couple together!

In terms of stories where couples have stayed together, my parents have done couples counseling in the past in order to learn how to become better communicators with each other and to re-establish their relationship now that they are empty-nesters. I'm not exactly sure how dire the situation was (i.e. if either of them were actually thinking of divorce due to these issues) but they are together to this day. It seems like they used counseling as a preventative measure rather than a last ditch effort, so perhaps that is one key factor as others have mentioned. I think sometimes people who have basically already sub-consciously decided to leave the relationship use therapy as a way of consciously re-assuring themselves that it is the right choice for them (which is a valid use of therapy, in my opinion). In those cases (which also relate to the timing of when counseling is sought), I can see why splitting up is a much more likely outcome than staying together.

 

[ForteKitty]

I have two close friends who are very close to divorce. Both are in personal and couples' counseling. One's counselor pretty much told her that it's beyond hope and she deserves better. The other one's close to realizing that her husband has grown into someone she doesn't recognize anymore, and she had been so oblivious she didn't notice.

Counseling only works if both parties are willing to participate. It does not work when one party believes he's above the counselor, and when he believes he's above his wife.

 

[Jennifer W]

Therapy and counselling are pretty rare here. Not many people use them, although they are available. One couple I know who have been to counselling went there to try repairing a relationship, but ultimately did not succeed. She arranged the sessions "so that he could hear from someone else that he was wrong..." which I think is probably not too unusual (one partner wanting external support for or validation of their position).

I haven't heard of it being successful, and personally I wouldn't consider it. That said, I can't imagine being in a place where I would need to consider it - perhaps if I was, I would be more open to help, any help.

 

[jaysonsmom]

I originally wanted my Subject line to read: Does relationship counseling really work to keep a relationship together? But it was too long, hence my question was unclear. I agree, that it works to make yourself aware of the problems in the relationship, but for the most part most people enter it as a last ditch effort to save a relationship, most of the time the attempt is futile.

 

[decodelighted]

I guess I'm confused by the question. Are you thinking relationship counseling is a waste of time? That people should just jump to the conclusion that if things aren't working naturally that they should just bag the relationship & look for a "soulmate"?

I'm a big believer in *individual therapy*. Don't have any personal experience with *couples counseling*. Of the couples I know who have done couples counseling ... one divorced after ten years (started counseling before marriage) & one marriage seems to be working much better now, though counseling continues.

 

[jaysonsmom]

I guess I'm confused by the question. Are you thinking relationship counseling is a waste of time? That people should just jump to the conclusion that if things aren't working naturally that they should just bag the relationship & look for a "soulmate"?

I'm a big believer in *individual therapy*. Don't have any personal experience with *couples counseling*. Of the couples I know who have done couples counseling ... one divorced after ten years (started counseling before marriage) & one marriage seems to be working much better now, though counseling continues.

I think you pretty much summed up my thoughts. I used to believe in working things out, but after all the failed counseling stories, I'm beginning to think that couple's counseling is a long and difficult process, and for the most part, people don't change.it's probably faster to just call it quits and find the another with right personality "fit".

 

[decodelighted]

I guess I'm confused by the question. Are you thinking relationship counseling is a waste of time? That people should just jump to the conclusion that if things aren't working naturally that they should just bag the relationship & look for a "soulmate"?

I think you pretty much summed up my thoughts. I used to believe in working things out, but after all the failed counseling stories, I'm beginning to think that couple's counseling is a long and difficult process, and for the most part, people don't change.it's probably faster to just call it quits and find the another with right personality "fit".

I'm curious ... why is "faster" better? I truly believe that EVERY couple has their hiccups and areas to work on where they don't quite *fit*. So many people get divorced in search of the "better fit" only to find that they have all new problems with a new person once the honeymoon period wears off. Which is part of the reason that 2nd & 3rd marriages have EVEN HIGHER divorce rates than first marriages. Its because flawed INDIVIDUALS are trying to hide from their own issues in a series of flawed relationships with other flawed people.

Wherever you go ... there YOU are. Yanno? Unless a marriage is outright TOXIC (emotional/physical abuse, treatment-adverse addiction, criminal behavior) ... I don't see the wisdom in just finding the "fastest" exit strategy. FWIW.

 

[Circe]

My husband and I did counseling, and it worked. Like NEL's aunt and uncle, it was after a miscarriage, and we needed someone to mediate the fact that we have different personality types and express grief in different ways. We weren't on the verge of divorce, but we were fighting and hurting one another during an already excruciating time; I'm very glad that we went.

In general, I think just about everyone could benefit by counseling, individual or paired. I grew up in a culture that scoffs at it* - direct quote from my parents, "That's for people who don't have friends" - but having tried both kinds, I think it's valuable, if only because it's really damned annoying to for your friends to have you sit there and talk about yourself nonstop ... but sometimes that's what you need to do to work things through. Couples counseling in particular is useful, I think, because people can have so many different underlying assumptions and expectations as to snarl communication unbearably. If you marry somebody who's EXACTLY your Meyer-Briggs type, from EXACTLY the same background, you're probably good to go, but different personalities, cultures, etc.? It'll probably give you at least a little insight you didn't have before.**

* Caveat the first: if you are from such a culture, I think counseling probably would be useless. The image I get of my parents in counseling is basically of them staring suspiciously at the counselor. And maybe bonding over their nefarious motivations in asking all those personal questions afterward, which, hey, could sort of serve a purpose ....

**Caveat the second: I do think this is easier if you enter counseling while you still want to know something about your partner other than if they'll kick if you try to take the good silver. If you wait until you're on the verge of divorce anyway, it's going to be a lot tougher. What's easier, flossing on a regular basis or having a root canal after years of not even brushing your teeth?

 

[ksinger]

I guess I'm confused by the question. Are you thinking relationship counseling is a waste of time? That people should just jump to the conclusion that if things aren't working naturally that they should just bag the relationship & look for a "soulmate"?

I think you pretty much summed up my thoughts. I used to believe in working things out, but after all the failed counseling stories, I'm beginning to think that couple's counseling is a long and difficult process, and for the most part, people don't change.it's probably faster to just call it quits and find the another with right personality "fit".

I'm curious ... why is "faster" better? I truly believe that EVERY couple has their hiccups and areas to work on where they don't quite *fit*. So many people get divorced in search of the "better fit" only to find that they have all new problems with a new person once the honeymoon period wears off. Which is part of the reason that 2nd & 3rd marriages have EVEN HIGHER divorce rates than first marriages. Its because flawed INDIVIDUALS are trying to hide from their own issues in a series of flawed relationships with other flawed people.

Wherever you go ... there YOU are. Yanno? Unless a marriage is outright TOXIC (emotional/physical abuse, treatment-adverse addiction, criminal behavior) ... I don't see the wisdom in just finding the "fastest" exit strategy. FWIW.

Since counseling, it seems to most here, usually is simply giving validation to what the couple already suspects deep down, then it's not a stretch to think that either or both parties could come to the same conclusion sooner and with less expense. Hence the "faster" bit. There is something to be said for not prolonging things too. For one, it can give you more time to find someone, if that is your wish.

 

[Haven]

I guess I'm confused by the question. Are you thinking relationship counseling is a waste of time? That people should just jump to the conclusion that if things aren't working naturally that they should just bag the relationship & look for a "soulmate"?

I'm a big believer in *individual therapy*. Don't have any personal experience with *couples counseling*. Of the couples I know who have done couples counseling ... one divorced after ten years (started counseling before marriage) & one marriage seems to be working much better now, though counseling continues.

I think you pretty much summed up my thoughts. I used to believe in working things out, but after all the failed counseling stories, I'm beginning to think that couple's counseling is a long and difficult process, and for the most part, people don't change.it's probably faster to just call it quits and find the another with right personality "fit".

Or, people DO change over time and find that they are no longer compatible.

My parents married at age 21 and divorced at age 51. They were very different people by the time they divorced, and the last several years were pretty bad for them, but the first ten, 15, even 20 weren't. You could argue that they were never right for each other, but that isn't true. They became very different people and somewhere along the way they lost each other as they were growing and changing.

They tried couples counseling and their counselor told them at one point that they were "done" and they no longer needed to see him. They definitely weren't, of course, and their marriage deteriorated shortly after that.

 

[kenny]

I originally wanted my Subject line to read: Does relationship counseling really work to keep a relationship together? But it was too long, hence my question was unclear. I agree, that it works to make yourself aware of the problems in the relationship, but for the most part most people enter it as a last ditch effort to save a relationship, most of the time the attempt is futile.

Some relationships should end.
Therapy may help you realize this.
Not all relationships are good.

When I hear someone say, "We've been together for 30 years." I think to myself but don't say . . . So! - Are you happy?

I'm not saying yours should end.
I'm just saying . . . well, what I said.

I wish you great happiness, within this relationship or after it.
Your happiness is the goal, not keeping the relationship going no matter what.

BTW, my 13-year was with an Indian who told me the most important unit was the relationship NOT the individual.
I disagreed but it took lots of therapy to discover I was entitled to my own opinion.

 

[ksinger]

I originally wanted my Subject line to read: Does relationship counseling really work to keep a relationship together? But it was too long, hence my question was unclear. I agree, that it works to make yourself aware of the problems in the relationship, but for the most part most people enter it as a last ditch effort to save a relationship, most of the time the attempt is futile.

Some relationships should end.
Therapy may help you realize this.
Not all relationships are good.

When I hear someone say, "We've been together for 30 years." I think to myself but don't say . . . So! - Are you happy?

I'm not saying yours should end.
I'm just saying . . . well, what I said.

I wish you great happiness, within this relationship or after it.
Your happiness is the goal, not keeping the relationship going no matter what.

BTW, my 13-year was with an Indian who told me the most important unit was the relationship NOT the individual.
I disagreed but it took lots of therapy to discover I was entitled to my own opinion.

Amen to that. Ain't no one giving brownie points for staying together just because it's the path of least resistance, or because you suffered for the sake of "the relationship". I know more than one 30+ year marriage that is in a state of "quiet desperation", and it is NOT pretty, and ultimately it is deadening to the people involved, because they KNOW it isn't what it should be, even as they stay. Now, I'm not necessarily criticizing someone for making that choice - marriage is too complicated for me to judge the whys of someone else's relationship. But in today's society we all have so many more choices that you can't lie and say you didn't have a choice.

 

[ksinger]

I guess I'm confused by the question. Are you thinking relationship counseling is a waste of time? That people should just jump to the conclusion that if things aren't working naturally that they should just bag the relationship & look for a "soulmate"?

I'm a big believer in *individual therapy*. Don't have any personal experience with *couples counseling*. Of the couples I know who have done couples counseling ... one divorced after ten years (started counseling before marriage) & one marriage seems to be working much better now, though counseling continues.

I think you pretty much summed up my thoughts. I used to believe in working things out, but after all the failed counseling stories, I'm beginning to think that couple's counseling is a long and difficult process, and for the most part, people don't change.it's probably faster to just call it quits and find the another with right personality "fit".

Or, people DO change over time and find that they are no longer compatible.

My parents married at age 21 and divorced at age 51. They were very different people by the time they divorced, and the last several years were pretty bad for them, but the first ten, 15, even 20 weren't. You could argue that they were never right for each other, but that isn't true. They became very different people and somewhere along the way they lost each other as they were growing and changing.

They tried couples counseling and their counselor told them at one point that they were "done" and they no longer needed to see him. They definitely weren't, of course, and their marriage deteriorated shortly after that.

From perhaps another perspective, I would say that people don't change, they merely become more of who they really always were deep down. I have found this to be the case with many people I know, specifically my husband, whom I have known since he was 17. He was always the man he is, but flowered into expressing that full man rather late. And I would venture virtually no one here was MORE themselves at 20 than at 40. In youth, you're busy trying different things, different ways of being in the world. Later, you begin to really KNOW what you think and who you are and begin to react out of THAT, rather than out of the insecurity of not knowing quite so much. I've been having this very conversation with a recently divorced 25 year old in my office. This is her first job, and then a divorce, and well, she's come to see how she was doing things from insecurity and/or neediness. And you can see her confidence growing and her putting the pieces of her life together and becoming more definitively HER. Is that changing? Perhaps. Maybe it's just a purely semantic distinction, but I just think that time strips away and leaves the essentials that insecurity covers up.

End ramble....

 

[slg47]

jaysonsmom...FI and I are going to begin counseling. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[kenny]

I know I'm going to get a punch in the face for bring this up yet again but respecting diversity can apply to partners too.

20 years ago I could not have accepted certain things about my current partner.
Granted, this is a very very messy area and I won't bother giving examples.
People who consider themselves the most tolerant person in the world may have very rigid ideas about what is tolerable in a partner.

I'm not saying be a push over or get walked on.
Each of us must draw her/his own line, but when it comes to many things acceptance can be much better than expecting change in a partner.

 

[ksinger]

I know I'm going to get a punch in the face for bring this up yet again but respecting diversity can apply to partners too.

20 years ago I could not have accepted certain things about my current partner.
Granted, this is a very very messy area and I won't bother giving examples.
People who consider themselves the most tolerant person in the world may have very rigid ideas about what is tolerable in a partner.

I'm not saying be a push over or get walked on.
Each of us must draw her/his own line, but when it comes to many things acceptance can be much better than expecting change in a partner.

In the immortal words of Springsteen, "ya gotta learn to live with what you can't rise above..."

 

[Haven]

ksinger--That's interesting, and I definitely see how it can be true for many people.

For my father in particular, he *changed.* I suspect that he might have some kind of mental disorder, or the very early signs of alzheimer's, but he is a different person now than he was even ten years ago. It's too painful for me to go into any details, but he's different. I'm worried that he's different because he's sick, or maybe he has the same massive brain tumor that killed his younger brother at age 42 and that's what's causing all of these changes, but the man is different. (I realize that I may be trying to blame the changes on illness because an explanation would make me feel better about them. I get that, too. And I know how unlikely it is that he has a brain tumor as well. I sat through all of the family support groups about brain tumors and learned that. Still, it's possible.)

Your post made me think of some other possible explanation for *perceived* changes, which is really more like the opposite of what you described. I like the saying that a good relationship makes your world larger, while a bad relationship makes it smaller. Perhaps some people change because their partners are narrowing their worlds, and thus cutting of the life source of some of their vital characteristics, and they become shadows of themselves in a bad marriage. I think that happens a lot, too.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Since I am studying to be a counselor, I am obviously a big believer in all types of counseling. Though I am not going into couples counseling I think it can be very helpful. Having a neutral sounding board can be vital. Also therapy gives clients a *safe* and *empathetic* place to discuss their fears, issues, problems, etc. Therapy can give clients tools for healthier communication and to figure out what is REALLY behind their issues. Therapy is a tool towards better mental health. So, yes, I think for most people relationship counseling really works. It might not "save" all relationships but it gives clients the courage to fight or flight.

 

[ksinger]

ksinger--That's interesting, and I definitely see how it can be true for many people.

For my father in particular, he *changed.* I suspect that he might have some kind of mental disorder, or the very early signs of alzheimer's, but he is a different person now than he was even ten years ago. It's too painful for me to go into any details, but he's different. I'm worried that he's different because he's sick, or maybe he has the same massive brain tumor that killed his younger brother at age 42 and that's what's causing all of these changes, but the man is different. (I realize that I may be trying to blame the changes on illness because an explanation would make me feel better about them. I get that, too. And I know how unlikely it is that he has a brain tumor as well. I sat through all of the family support groups about brain tumors and learned that. Still, it's possible.)

Your post made me think of some other possible explanation for *perceived* changes, which is really more like the opposite of what you described. I like the saying that a good relationship makes your world larger, while a bad relationship makes it smaller. Perhaps some people change because their partners are narrowing their worlds, and thus cutting of the life source of some of their vital characteristics, and they become shadows of themselves in a bad marriage. I think that happens a lot, too.

I absolutely couldn't agree more with that sentiment. I know I did not like myself and who I was becoming when married to the wrong man, and feel utterly right, and more my best me, now that I'm married to the right one. Of course, between iteration II (hubs and I have had 3 incarnations over the years) I spent 8 years totally alone, living with just myself. It was instructive, and the final polish if you will, to making me content with myself and however my life went. There was no more looking for someone to give me something I didn't already have, you know?

I'm not saying people never truly change, but conscious change is a much rarer thing, and is usually much more difficult. My husband did a bit of both really, the "becoming" and the "chosen" types. When he decided consciously to quit being so hard on himself and chose to be happy, his innate kindness towards others was able to shine through. He even moves differently than he did at 20. He's finally easy in his own skin, and it shows.

 

[Miss Sparkly]

Since I am studying to be a counselor, I am obviously a big believer in all types of counseling. Though I am not going into couples counseling I think it can be very helpful. Having a neutral sounding board can be vital. Also therapy gives clients a *safe* and *empathetic* place to discuss their fears, issues, problems, etc. Therapy can give clients tools for healthier communication and to figure out what is REALLY behind their issues. Therapy is a tool towards better mental health. So, yes, I think for most people relationship counseling really works. It might not "save" all relationships but it gives clients the courage to fight or flight.

DH and I tried counselling during a rough patch in our marriage. At first DH hated it and I would drag him kicking into the session and by the end I hated it and would be balling before hand. The more familiar the counselor was to DH the better he became with her where as I was the opposite. She thought crying was a great thing because it got all my emotions out. HA! Lucky we worked thru it this time on our own.

I was just curious Tacori, what a good approach would be in counselling when something like DH and I happen? It has to be difficult working with two people at once.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Sparkly, why do you think you had such a strong reaction? Was it because of what issues were coming up or because of the therapist? Every counselor has a different style and approach. If I noticed that happening during a session I would gently confront the situation to see if this was something we could work out. Some clients are not going to connect with me and that is when I will refer them to another counselor. The goal is to be there for the client. I have no intention of doing couples therapy but will do group therapy (as well as individual). That's a bit different b/c people aren't go emotionally connected. I am a big fan of group work.

 

[Miss Sparkly]

Honestly, I think she was biased towards DH. She knew my boundaries and would push me to the point of rage but if DH said he was uncomfortable she would back off from him.

I guess my 2cents to others would be not to stop with one person. Nothing wrong with walking away from a dysfunctional counselor/patient relationship.