Do you want SUPER sharp close up pics?

[kenny]

Well let me know if you want opinions on what gadgets to look into if you want to move towards closer and sharper macro pics.

 

[yssie]

Kenny, do you have any tips for those of us with only P&Ss? Or recs for good photography blogs, books, etc.?

I would love to learn more and take better pics with what I've got (Canon S95), but I don't really know where to start!

 

[ame]

Well let me know if you want opinions on what gadgets to look into if you want to move towards closer and sharper macro pics.

Oh I will. I definitely want some cool shots of my stone.

 

[kenny]

Yssie, I've been meaning to write something up.
Lots of tips apply to ANY camera.

When I met Andre in Vegas we discussed this and I think it's a fun idea.
Maybe I can write up two thingies, one for everyone, and another for the geek-o-holics and equipment-o-holics like me.

 

[yssie]

Yssie, I've been meaning to write something up.
Lots of tips apply to ANY camera.

When I met Andre in Vegas we discussed this and I think it's a fun idea.
Maybe I can write up two thingies, one for everyone, and another for the geek-o-holics like me.

That'd be fantastic! I suspect *both* will get lots of reading!


ETA: there's a thread in SMTB right now but it's pretty old, and the info is pretty basic - I think my camera can do a lot more, if I knew how to use it better. I've read several of this guy's entries: http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm Some of it makes an astonishing amount of sense right away. Some seems interesting, but I haven't bothered to experiment... and some is gobbledegook!

Oh, and I want to learn the secret to getting The Shot without having to take the other fifty, so be sure to include that in your writeups, if you would

 

[kenny]

Well let me know if you want opinions on what gadgets to look into if you want to move towards closer and sharper macro pics.

Oh I will. I definitely want some cool shots of my stone.

Okay, step one is to post what lenses you have.
Give me the focal length, as in 28mm or 80mm.
Also tell me if it is a zoom as in 18 to 100mm.
Tell me the filter size of the lenses too, that's just the diameter of the end of the lens that is NOT next to the camera.
It is often printed on the lens cap.

BTW, I may be unable to post for a day or two . . . but I won't forget.

 

[ame]

No problem, I can't look til Sunday anyway.

 

[Sky56]

very cool - thanks for sharing!

 

[ame]

Kenny is this the same concept?

I need to look at my camera tonight.

http://www.hoyafilter.com/products/hoya/oef-12.html

 

[kenny]

Kenny is this the same concept?
http://www.hoyafilter.com/products/hoya/oef-12.html

No.
Diopters are a totally different concept and almost certainly give you results that are less sharp than a wide angle lens reversed with a reversing ring.

Diopters are cheap single-element lenses that screw onto your lens, like filters do, to increase he magnification.
Any glass you put in the light path can only lower the resolution that your original lens was capable of alone, even though it does in fact increase magnification.
I realize this is counterintuitive.

Think again of the chain.
Very high sharpness in macro pics only happens when every link in the chain is good.
Putting a $50 diopter onto a $500 lens makes it a $48 lens.
This is a gross oversimplification, but gets the point across.
A lens reversing ring may only cost $10 but it has no glass so it can introduce no distortion.

Just because something gives you higher magnification does always mean better overall resolution.
Take jewelers loupes.
Your eye will resolve more detail with a $300 10x loupe than it will with a $10 30x.
You can pay $10,000 for a 66x Zeiss microscope or pay $100 for a 1000x cheapo.

 

[kenny]

Let me put it another way.

Diopters work somewhat, they will make the image larger before you take the pic which in principle is better than cropping in AFTER the pic is taken.
But, sharper results are not that expensive with a lens reversing ring and an old fixed focal length wide angle lens.

Oh and staking diopters to further increase the magnification degrades the sharpness even further than one diopter.

I bought a set of diopters back in 1979 and quickly realized I was not happy with them since I wanted even better sharpness.
I took the most expensive route, real nikon macro lenses and bellows and extension rings.
I only recently discovered the superb results possible for less investment using a lens reversing ring and an old cheap fixed wide angle lens.

But again, people vary, and you may be content with the results you get with diopters.
Nothing wrong with that.

 

[ame]

Ok here's what I have at home. I had another lens but I have no idea which family member presently has it.

18-55, 75-300. Both Canon, EOS rebel DSLR.

 

[kenny]

Ok here's what I have at home. I had another lens but I have no idea which family member presently has it.

18-55, 75-300. Both Canon, EOS rebel DSLR.

ame, if you want to try the reversed lens thing, based on my homework (which you should check for yourself) I believe you need this $14.95 Lens reversing ring for Canon EOS auto focus lenses with a 58 mm filter size.

http://www.adorama.com/MCRRCA58.html

Note this ring was NOT made by Canon.
If Canon does make one, and you don't mind paying double or more then look for the authentic Canon one.

Between the two lenses you mentioned I'd use it on the 18-55mm lens, and set the lens ring to the 18mm position.

If you decide to give it a try, let me know how it works.
I believe this vendor, Adorama, has a return policy if you don't like it.

Also find out what that other lens is.

Keep in mind you are entering a field requiring much experimentation, learning and thinking for yourself as opposed to just point and shoot depending on the automatics-ness of the camera to make all the decisions.
You have to do the focusing yourself - I recommend putting the lens' focusing ring to the closest focus position and slowly moving the diamond near and far while looking through the camera. (using your finger first can speed things up.)
Also you may have to experiment with exposures, which is easy since there is no film.

 

[kenny]

ame I looked up your lens.
If it is the same as the one Canon currently sells in the pic above then there IS no aperture ring.
This sucks for using it reversed in macro work.

Lenses such as this depend on the camera changing the aperture and since you will be installing it backwards the body can't do that.
I dont' know if the lens' aperture will be stuck in the full open or full closed position.
Either way sucks.
Full open means very narrow depth of field.
Full closed means too dark for viewing and focusing.

You need to control the f-stop.
Find out about that other lens.
Hopefully it is NOT a zoom lens and has a focal length from 18 to 28 mm.

If not, buy a very old cheap used 21mm or 24mm on ebay or Craigslist. Make sure it is NOT a zoom lens and it has a aperture ring.
It does not even have to be a Canon, just have a 58mm filter size.

 

[kenny]

This is the kind you want.
Notice it has an aperture ring, which have a series of numbers like: 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8, 11, 16, 22

Those are the f-stops and control the iris (aperture) in the lens.

Your lens does not have this; it only has a ring to control the zoom (18 to 55mm).
This old nikon lens pictured here does not have a zoom ring since it is not a zoom lens.

Here's a real old one with a current bid of $3.25.
But notice in one of the listing's pics that it has a 52mm filter size so you'd have to get the reversing ring for that filter size, not the 58mm above.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-28mm-f-3-5-16-Nikon-Nikkor-H-Auto-Wide-Angle-Lens-/250964242951?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item3a6ea27207#ht_1831wt_1398

 

[ame]

Yea mine doesn't have the aperture on it I don' think, none of them do. I think it's all automatic, if I recall correctly. There is a dial on it on the top that I think allows for adjustment of speed or apeture depending what mode it's in...but ill have to look again. I asked around last night to find out which family member has my macro lens, so far no one claims to have it. I THINK my uncle has it but I need to ask him or my aunt when they get back in town.

This is the one i use.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=Canon+EOS+xsi&gs_upl=31l6366l0l6726l22l16l1l1l1l1l235l2538l3.11.2l17l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&biw=1062&bih=625&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=11470033252646451852&sa=X&ei=CLIFT4TzOMyltweprM3PBg&ved=0CKIBEPMCMAM

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/xsi-field.shtml

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2008/1/24/canoneos450d

 

[Karl_K]

Ok here's what I have at home. I had another lens but I have no idea which family member presently has it.

18-55, 75-300. Both Canon, EOS rebel DSLR.

neither of those are good for reversing and I would not reverse a lens in front of either due to the light construction.
As kenny suggested picking up an old lens cheap is a good option.
The nice thing is it don't matter what brand.

 

[kenny]

Ok here's what I have at home. I had another lens but I have no idea which family member presently has it.

18-55, 75-300. Both Canon, EOS rebel DSLR.

neither of those (lenses) are good for reversing and I would not reverse a lens in front of either due to the light construction.
As kenny suggested picking up an old lens cheap is a good option.
The nice thing is it don't matter what brand.

Agreed, now that I know those two lenses do not have aperture rings. (I cannot edit my post above where I recommended using it)

ame, that lens your uncle may have may also not be useful reversed.
even if is a true macro lens of a fixed focal length (IOW not a zoom) if it also does not have an aperture ring it will not be useful reversed.

Plus the magnification you get by reversing a lens increases as the focal length gets shorter.
For instance a 28mm gives you more magnification than a 35mm.
The true macro lenses Canon makes today are not even in that range, they are 60mm and up so reversing them won't magnify.

 

[starshine]

my jaw => floor

This!!! Wow! Thanks, Kenny!

I think this would be what my camera would need http://www.adorama.com/MCRRCA58.html

 

[starshine]

Lol...posted before reading all the posts...carry on!

 

[ame]

Ok here's what I have at home. I had another lens but I have no idea which family member presently has it.

18-55, 75-300. Both Canon, EOS rebel DSLR.

neither of those (lenses) are good for reversing and I would not reverse a lens in front of either due to the light construction.
As kenny suggested picking up an old lens cheap is a good option.
The nice thing is it don't matter what brand.

Agreed, now that I know those two lenses do not have aperture rings. (I cannot edit my post above where I recommended using it)

ame, that lens your uncle may have may also not be useful reversed.
even if is a true macro lens of a fixed focal length (IOW not a zoom) if it also does not have an aperture ring it will not be useful reversed.

Plus the magnification you get by reversing a lens increases as the focal length gets shorter.
For instance a 28mm gives you more magnification than a 35mm.
The true macro lenses Canon makes today are not even in that range, they are 60mm and up so reversing them won't magnify.

It just sounds like my camera is just not a candidate for all this stuff! Good tihng I got that goofy thing for my iphone on the way lol