Do you support this policy?

[kenny]

British Airways and Virgin Australia Airlines forbids unaccompanied children to be seated next to a man.
All men are ordered to switch seats with a woman.
No US carriers have this policy.

IOW, if you are any male (even with no police record, not a felon, not a terrorist, not a registered sex offender - ANY male) you are treated like a pedophile.
Airlines have been sued and lost for this.
(Statistics do support that pedophiles are more likely to be men than women.)

See CNN video: http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2...o-male-passengers-treated-like-pedophiles.cnn

Do you support this ban on all men sitting next to children?
Is it unfairly discriminatory, or is the higher CHANCE that he's a pedophile take precedence here?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: So you support this policy?

Weird. I don't know what I think about it.

On the one hand... is it that big a flipping deal? On the other hand, what does it open the door to?

 

[JulieN]

As well, in GB, if a woman goes to a male doctor and needs an exam of breasts, genitals, or rectum, a chaperone must be present. Doctors are thus protected against false accusations.

 

[kenny]

As well, in GB, if a woman goes to a male doctor and needs an exam of breasts, genitals, or rectum, a chaperone must be present. Doctors are thus protected against false accusations.

I fail to see any similarity between a doctor visit where it is appropriate and necessary to expose those parts of your body to being just a passenger on a commercial flight.
It's not like the men ask the agent for seats next to unaccompanied kids.

The airline knows the name of whom they are seating.
The least they can do is assign seats to passengers with recognizably-female names next to unaccompanied kids.
Then innocent men are not subject to this public humiliation and insult.

I think people are letting irrational fears of a very unlikely thing get the better of them.

Don't walk outside.
You may be stuck by lightning.

 

[Kaleigh]

OMG, this to me is crazy. First I have heard of it. But will admit i haven't flown much since 9/11 .


Kids are grown but back in the day no way would I have a problem with them being seated next to a man...


My brother was gay, and NO he wasn't a child molester.

So what is this about??


I am in a mood and sick. Level headed... Just give me the 411 please.

 

[Skippy123]

As well, in GB, if a woman goes to a male doctor and needs an exam of breasts, genitals, or rectum, a chaperone must be present. Doctors are thus protected against false accusations.

that is how it works in the US too.

I guess their thinking is that a man is more likely to molest a child versus a woman.
I am not sure on how I feel about this though; it sounds like they are looking into this policy

 

[Haven]

On one hand, it seems terribly discriminatory.

On the other hand, I would personally be uncomfortable sitting next to someone's unattended child on an airplane. NOT because I don't want to be near children, but because I've been a teacher long enough to know that you have to be very careful to not be alone with someone's child. I've taught all ages, and when teaching minors I would NEVER put myself in a position of being alone anywhere with a child or a very small group of children.

A row on a plane is an isolated enough space to count as being "alone" with a child, IMO. Wise adults would be wary of putting themselves in this position. Children have very vivid imaginations, and though they don't tell tales to be malicious, I would never want to be find myself caught on the wrong end of a child's tall tale with nobody else around to speak to the situation.

 

[kenny]

Good point Haven.

When I walk our dogs I intentionally avoid walking next to the playground of the elementary school.
Kids WOULD run over, reach through the chain link fence and try to pet the dogs.

I don't want any paranoid school employee or any adult walking or driving by think I'm trying to get the attention of kids with our cute dogs. (Kids DO love our dogs, and they LOVE kids.)

It's just not worth the risk, especially since the whole neighborhood knows we are gay.
People with brain know being gay does not mean you are a pedophile, but lots of folks still have no brain.
We live in a paranoid world.

 

[Skippy123]

On one hand, it seems terribly discriminatory.

On the other hand, I would personally be uncomfortable sitting next to someone's unattended child on an airplane. NOT because I don't want to be near children, but because I've been a teacher long enough to know that you have to be very careful to not be alone with someone's child. I've taught all ages, and when teaching minors I would NEVER put myself in a position of being alone anywhere with a child or a very small group of children.

A row on a plane is an isolated enough space to count as being "alone" with a child, IMO. Wise adults would be wary of putting themselves in this position. Children have very vivid imaginations, and though they don't tell tales to be malicious, I would never want to be find myself caught on the wrong end of a child's tall tale with nobody else around to speak to the situation.

this actually reminded me of very strange plane ride I had several years ago. I sat next to a lady that had a little bit too much to drink. Anyway, since we were at the front of the plane, they had some little boy sit between me and the lady. This lady asked so many questions of the little boy that it made me feel uncomfortable. I sort of felt bad for the little boy and kept an eye on the lady. I guess my point is you never know who is a weirdo and why would they sit the little boy next to this lady that had been drinking!?!

so now that I thought about it some more and the situation on my plane ride, I would sit a kid up in the front close to the flight attendants (which they did) and also away from someone who was drinking.

 

[kenny]

The way it's going, with fear of lawsuits resulting in so many stupid company policies, I would not be surprised if airlines eventually refuse to fly minors not accompanied by and adult.

Frankly, in this day and age I'm surprised airlines still take responsibility for people's kids.

 

[iheartscience]

The way it's going, with fear of lawsuits resulting in so many stupid company policies, I would not be surprised if airlines eventually refuse to fly minors not accompanied by and adult.

Frankly, in this day and age I'm surprised airlines still take responsibility for people's kids.

Ditto. And I think this policy is ridiculous and super discriminatory. If the airlines are so worried about the kids, sit them in the front row right by the flight attendants. But that would force them to give up that extra $50 or whatever they charge passengers for good seats these days.

 

[JewelFreak]

Well, geeze, put 'em up with the pilots, then. Oh no, forgot, pilots might be M.E.N. Good Lord, PC run insanely amok. How insulting.

 

[Missy]

The way it's going, with fear of lawsuits resulting in so many stupid company policies, I would not be surprised if airlines eventually refuse to fly minors not accompanied by and adult.

Frankly, in this day and age I'm surprised airlines still take responsibility for people's kids.

Ditto. And I think this policy is ridiculous and super discriminatory. If the airlines are so worried about the kids, sit them in the front row right by the flight attendants. But that would force them to give up that extra $50 or whatever they charge passengers for good seats these days.

Yanno, I have to agree with this. While it is super discriminatory perhaps it's a good idea if just to protect yourself. In any case, instead of making discriminatory rules the airlines should just refuse to allow minors fly unaccompanied IMO. I mean, a minor cannot even get into an R movie unaccompanied by an adult- why is it OK to fly across the country alone?

If you want your child safe do it yourself. Why should the onus be on everyone else? If you cannot fly with your child pay for a vetted (by you) escort. Why should the airlines have to watch your kid? And then who ends up paying in the long run for this? Yeah, just take care of your child because no one will do it as well as you because no one cares as much.

 

[Maria D]

I find this wrong and offensive on so many levels. On the videoclip, it said that that Virgin Austrialia's policy is that unaccompanied minors could not sit next to a man OR AN EMPTY SEAT. So two things right there: all men are automatically considered to be potential pedophiles and women are expected to help babysit whenever the opportunity arises. If I'm nicely situated and comfortable -- and happy to be child-free for a few hours -- it's OK to ask me to move so I can sit next to some children I don't know? Just because I'm a woman? wth!

Later in the video, a man that is not connected with the airline but with a child advocacy organization said he supports the policy because (something to this effect) statistically more men than women are sex offenders so the odds of an abusive encounter are reduced. Then they interview random people in an airport who agree. Seriously? As if the terrible problem of sexual predation of children could be solved by reducing the number of random encounters children have with male strangers in public places. You would think that after the heart-breaking scandals that have come to light with the Catholic Church and Penn State that the public would realize that "stranger danger" is not the problem. Don't "statistics" show it's more likely to be someone you KNOW that is grooming your child?

 

[justginger]

For perhaps once in my life, I have no opinion on the subject. I don't mind either way, but I do think it's odd children are still allowed to travel unaccompanied.

 

[AGBF]

On one hand, it seems terribly discriminatory.

On the other hand, I would personally be uncomfortable sitting next to someone's unattended child on an airplane. NOT because I don't want to be near children, but because I've been a teacher long enough to know that you have to be very careful to not be alone with someone's child.

My feelings are similar to those of Haven. I really don't want to have to think through all the reasons why this policy should or should not be allowed to remain in place. Of course it is discriminatory! On the other hand, it also protects men. There are just too many in's and out's to the policy that I don't want to bother thinking about.

What I did want to comment on was Haven's comment above. It rang an immediate bell. When my daughter was five and in kindergarten the moms had to go into the public school and help with lunch duty every day. I don't recall how many went in each day. (That was almost 15 years ago.) In some parts of the country I know that this would be considered over the top, but in our little suburban school most of the mothers were stay-at-home moms and huge sums were raised for the PTA every year, etcetera. So there were always five mothers who wanted to be the class mom and many volunteers for lunch duty, etcetera. (I really don't know why I'm giving you all this background. I guess I just got swept back in time!)

At any rate, when a child needed to be escorted from the cafeteria to the bathroom during kindergarten lunch, the mom took him back to him kindergarten room, where there was a mini-bathroom. (The kindergarten kids didn't have to use the restrooms the bigger kids did.) So I had some little five year-old boy who couldn't get his zipper down and I was just laughing to myself and feeling paranoid as hell because I wasn't his mother and I was unzipping his pants! Now that I still remember that incident-although I cannot remember which child it was-says something about the system! Believe me, it is no thrill to be the one who gets exposed to the danger of being called a pedophile! It's better to be kept safe from any situation in which such an accusation can be lobbed at you! When I am working as a social worker, I really try not to touch the children with whom I am working.

Deb/AGBF

 

[Deia]

I have no opinion of this policy,

We have family all over the world and sometimes was just not possible to travel with mom or dad to go see the family members as both my parents worked. My sister, being my half sister, had to fly to Europe to see our dad when we were living there, and her mom was in NY. Her not-so-wonderful mother wasn't going to travel with her.

All I am saying is that it is useful to be able to have a child fly unaccompanied.

 

[AGBF]

As well, in GB, if a woman goes to a male doctor and needs an exam of breasts, genitals, or rectum, a chaperone must be present. Doctors are thus protected against false accusations.

Well...this topic could be a separate thread of its own. I believe that Skippy said above that it's the same in the United States. Actually, I would think that in the US the individual states would regulate such matters. I know that it was usual for a male GYN to have a female nurse present when he examined me, but when I was trying to get pregnant my male doctor and I saw each other almost daily and developed a bond of trust. He knew I wasn't going to cry "rape" on him over a pelvic exam and he sometimes dispensed with having his nurse in the room if he didn't need her help for that day's procedure!

Deb/AGBF

 

[kenny]

As well, in GB, if a woman goes to a male doctor and needs an exam of breasts, genitals, or rectum, a chaperone must be present. Doctors are thus protected against false accusations.

Well...this topic could be a separate thread of its own. I believe that Skippy said above that it's the same in the United States. Actually, I would think that in the US the individual states would regulate such matters. I know that it was usual for a male GYN to have a female nurse present when he examined me, but when I was trying to get pregnant my male doctor and I saw each other almost daily and developed a bond of trust. He knew I wasn't going to cry "rape" on him over a pelvic exam and he sometimes dispensed with having his nurse in the room if he didn't need her help for that day's procedure!
Deb/AGBF

There is a gender problem with this whole chaperone thing.
Some doctors are gay so maybe a female chaperone should be present when a male doctor examines a male patient.
Some female gynecologists must be lesbian.

Since there is no way to know if a person is a closeted homosexual perhaps we should pay chaperones of both genders to be present at EVERY doctor visit, since health care is so inexpensive already.

This expectation of 100% safety, no matter what, gets kind of expensive and is frankly an absurd can of worms.

I'm not saying abuses will never happen but I think it is most reasonable to just trust doctors to be professional.
You can buy the safest car, follow all safety instructions, drive safely and still be killed; we don't let that stop us from driving.

I think there is a such thing as acceptable and reasonable risk.

 

[ForteKitty]

It's ridiculous. I'd be terribly offended if I were the male asking to move because they think I'm a potential pedophile, and I'd be livid if I were asked to switch seats because of such policy. As a female, what makes them think I'd want to babysit for the duration of my flight?

 

[AGBF]

I'm not saying abuses will never happen but I think it is most reasonable to just trust doctors to be professional.

Or, alternatively, one can do what the Roman Catholic sisters do and bring her own chaperone! I have gone to many, many GYN exams with female friends NOT because they had any fear of being touched inappropriately by their physicians, but because they were traumatized by pelvic exams or worried about the pain of certain procedures. I have also accompanied my teenage daughter to all of her GYN exams (with her female gynecologist who always has a female nurse present) to lend her moral support. I have held the hands of many of my female friends during procedures, and if I remember correctly, I once had a friend hold my hand during an endometrial biopsy! (I could have used it during the hysterosalpingogram!)

Deb/AGBF

 

[Puppmom]

I would be ticked if I was the woman who was asked to sit next to the child. I don't want to babysit someone else's kid on a flight.

...and regarding male doctors. My OB/GYN is male and there is no "chaperone" or nurse present during exams. When I was pregnant with my first at 17, there was a nurse but I assumed that was because I was a minor.

 

[kenny]

I'm not saying abuses will never happen but I think it is most reasonable to just trust doctors to be professional.

Or, alternatively, one can do what the Roman Catholic sisters do and bring her own chaperone! I have gone to many, many GYN exams with female friends NOT because they had any fear of being touched inappropriately by their physicians, but because they were traumatized by pelvic exams or worried about the pain of certain procedures. I have also accompanied my teenage daughter to all of her GYN exams (with her female gynecologist who always has a female nurse present) to lend her moral support. I have held the hands of many of my female friends during procedures, and if I remember correctly, I once had a friend hold my hand during an endometrial biopsy! (I could have used it during the hysterosalpingogram!)

Deb/AGBF

I sure wish someone was there to hold my hand during my prostate biopsy, which is performed with a probe up the rectum.
That was the most painful thing I ever experienced.
After he finished injecting the first spring-loaded thick needle I screamed.
He said, "Only nine more to go."

 

[Skippy123]

I'm not saying abuses will never happen but I think it is most reasonable to just trust doctors to be professional.

Or, alternatively, one can do what the Roman Catholic sisters do and bring her own chaperone! I have gone to many, many GYN exams with female friends NOT because they had any fear of being touched inappropriately by their physicians, but because they were traumatized by pelvic exams or worried about the pain of certain procedures. I have also accompanied my teenage daughter to all of her GYN exams (with her female gynecologist who always has a female nurse present) to lend her moral support. I have held the hands of many of my female friends during procedures, and if I remember correctly, I once had a friend hold my hand during an endometrial biopsy! (I could have used it during the hysterosalpingogram!)

Deb/AGBF

I am good friends with an ER doc and he says people sue like crazy and may docs just settle! So I don't blame some of the doctors having a nurse along during an exam.

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

I assume the child must have an adult in the row, not to act as a baby-sitter, but to help in the event of an emergency. If I happened to be seated next to a child, I wouldn't mind helping him/her use an oxygen mask or exit the plane in an unlikely event, but I certainly would not tolerate bad behavior during a normal flight and would be quick to call the attendant to deal with it. Not my job!

As for the policy of moving men, ridiculous and discriminatory.

 

[Haven]

My doctors are all men, and none have ever had a chaperone in the room when doing exams in sensitive areas. I can't imagine the chaperone thing is a law in the entire U.S., that would have to mean I've just gone to one non-compliant doctor after another.

I just wouldn't move to sit next to an unaccompanied minor if asked. And if I happened to be seated next to an unaccompanied minor, I would express my discomfort and asked to be moved myself, for all the reasons I mentioned above.

 

[Gypsy]

So I thought about this some more. Here are my thoughts.

It's easy to criticize without offering alternatives.

So here's my alternative. Have there be an unaccompanied minor sur-charge. Make them sit either in the aisle or in the window and leave the center seat for a flight attendant and have the surcharge go to the empty seat. They make the obese buy two tickets. Well, I think that making the parents of the unaccompanied pay a charge for a flight attendant to babysit their kids is fair.

 

[mousey]

I find this quite sad. I remember seeing a show once where they had a child actor pretend to be lost and distressed in a public place, and filmed the reactions of those around him. There were so many men who obviously wanted to help the child but chose not to. Afterwards they interviewed some of them. They quoted the fear of being thought of as a molester as being the reason they didnt help. The only man that did help did so by asking a nearby woman to intervene. Its so sad we are creating a society where a man is scared to help a child.

 

[luv2sparkle]

What I really find amazing is the amount of unaccompanied children that fly every year. I just read about a 10 year old who was flying to camp alone and there was a problem with the paid people to meet her. I am sure that there are reasons that I am not seeing but I can't think of a reason I would send my 10 year old off to fly alone. It puts a lot of responsibility on other people to care for someone's child.

It is discriminatory.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Most children I know are more afraid of strange men than strange women. I wonder if that has factored into this decision. I have to admit I was surprised when I read children can be set unaccompanied starting at 5 years of age (at least in the US). That seems really young!