Do you ever feel like this?

[CJ2008]

I am a nice person, but not like over-the-top nice. I do things for DH but more often than not I am selfish - I''m kind of a "I take care of me" "you take care of you" kind of person. Although I do a lot of things that are for the benefit of both of us and I treat him with respect and love.

Silly example - he leaves the ironing board sometimes. Sometimes (many times, actually) I can walk right by it and not put it away. Not because I''m being mean necessarily, but it almost goes unperceived because I didn''t leave it out. Same with his socks, if he runs out of the house and leaves them in the bathroom. I''ll move them over but wont necessarily put them in the hamper. Little things like that.

When he points it out though, even if it''s kidding, I feel incredibly guilty. I am realizing lately that I feel guilty about one thing or another 99% of the time. I definitely don''t cook often enough, I definitely don''t do a lot of things often enough...it seems like I carry around a lot of guilt about how I am (this also goes into other things like not calling my parents enough or not doing one thing or another enough). I do a lot more than what my natural tendency is (i.e., I''ll cook here and there to be "nice" and show him love - when I don''t it''s not that I dont want to, but it''s that I think how long it''ll take - and I''m guarded with my time).

He''s a really good person and I often compare myself to him and others and come away with the conclusion that everyone''s way nicer than I am. Do you ever think this way? And if so, do you try to change yourself to be "nicer" and do more and be less selfish?

 

[MonkeyPie]

I think he should pick up his own socks.

 

[D&T]

Date: 7/30/2009 5:57:51 PM
Author:CJ2008
I am a nice person, but not like over-the-top nice. I do things for DH but more often than not I am selfish - I''m kind of a ''I take care of me'' ''you take care of you'' kind of person. Although I do a lot of things that are for the benefit of both of us and I treat him with respect and love.

Silly example - he leaves the ironing board sometimes. Sometimes (many times, actually) I can walk right by it and not put it away. Not because I''m being mean necessarily, but it almost goes unperceived because I didn''t leave it out. Same with his socks, if he runs out of the house and leaves them in the bathroom. I''ll move them over but wont necessarily put them in the hamper. Little things like that.

hehehe... totally know what you mean, his shoes, or shorts that can''t seem to make into the shoe basket or the hamper. Then it bugs me even more when I constantly walk pass it, so I go and put his things away, and then casually mention it whenever I see him again. DH has gotten a lot better from the first day we were married, He''s more conscientious about little things now and are more aware of "things" that seem to bug me, I''m too detailed and high strung for messy house hold I guess, but since I have two kids now, I have to learn to relax a bit too.

 

[LilyKat]

Ditto MonkeyPie - why on earth should YOU be picking up his socks??

But yes, I do sometimes feel bad compared to other people. Not so much my SO or family, but when I see people who really go out of their way to be kind to others, or who are super generous in volunteering or giving to charity, it does make me feel guilty. I find turning that feeling into a motivation to change stops the guilt. Why don't you get a notebook and whenever you feel bad about something, write down what it is and what you can do to make yourself a better person in your own eyes. For example, not cooking enough - work out how much cooking needs to be done, split it in half, and if you're not doing your share, plan some meals for the next week and make an effort to stick to it.

ETA: On the other hand, think honestly about whether you're being too hard on yourself. If you really are mostly doing your share around the house, and being loving and considerate towards your SO, give yourself a break - nobody's perfect.

 

[atroop711]

Date: 7/30/2009 6:00:12 PM
Author: MonkeyPie
I think he should pick up his own socks.

ditto this. Grown men should know how to pick up their things. I don''t pick up after my husband..I have 3 kids to do that for and I even have the two older ones picking up after themselves

 

[soocool]

This reminds me of an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond in which Deborah and Ray return from a trip and leave their suitcase on the stair landing. Neither one wants to take it up first and the suitcase stays there for a while. Raymonds even goes so far to place some (I think it was ?) cheese inside the suitacse so that Deborah will take it upstairs and unpack. In the end they both fight over who will take it upstairs and be the "bigger" person and they are rolling around on the stairs until Raymond''s brother steps into the house. If you ever catch this episode, watch it. It makes you realize that it is not counting who does what that matters (even though it drives me crazy at times too!) but what are the things you do for each other and take for granted.

I always say if the worst thing my DH does is leave his socks laying around, then I am one lucky woman. And if he can''t find that I put them under his tshirts, then that is his problem.

 

[HollyS]

WHY would you consider it your responsibility to pick up after your husband? And why would he expect you to do so? Aren''t you both living in the 21st century?

Two ADULTS who live together should take care of their own personal belongings, and put away their own self-created messes. Period. I don''t care who makes MORE money, who makes ALL the money, who has a more demanding job, or who has no job. It matters not. Any and every able-bodied adult should put their own damn socks in the hamper.

 

[lyra]

You say that you feel guilty about things 99% of the time lately? Have you considered that you might be suffering from depression? I recognize a lot of these behaviours as things I do myself when I''m feeling not so great emotionally. I''m not trying to make you feel worse or anything, it''s just that it''s okay to be somewhat selfish. Sometimes we forget to think of our own needs and that leads to feeling resentful or guiltridden. Just something to consider. You might find that by actually taking more time out to pamper yourself in small ways, that you are less likely to let small things get to you. Does that make sense?

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 7/30/2009 5:57:51 PM
Author:CJ2008
I am a nice person, but not like over-the-top nice. I do things for DH but more often than not I am selfish - I''m kind of a ''I take care of me'' ''you take care of you'' kind of person. Although I do a lot of things that are for the benefit of both of us and I treat him with respect and love.


Silly example - he leaves the ironing board sometimes. Sometimes (many times, actually) I can walk right by it and not put it away. Not because I''m being mean necessarily, but it almost goes unperceived because I didn''t leave it out. Same with his socks, if he runs out of the house and leaves them in the bathroom. I''ll move them over but wont necessarily put them in the hamper. Little things like that.


When he points it out though, even if it''s kidding, I feel incredibly guilty. I am realizing lately that I feel guilty about one thing or another 99% of the time. I definitely don''t cook often enough, I definitely don''t do a lot of things often enough...it seems like I carry around a lot of guilt about how I am (this also goes into other things like not calling my parents enough or not doing one thing or another enough). I do a lot more than what my natural tendency is (i.e., I''ll cook here and there to be ''nice'' and show him love - when I don''t it''s not that I dont want to, but it''s that I think how long it''ll take - and I''m guarded with my time).


He''s a really good person and I often compare myself to him and others and come away with the conclusion that everyone''s way nicer than I am. Do you ever think this way? And if so, do you try to change yourself to be ''nicer'' and do more and be less selfish?

This sounds rather similar to the situation my fiance and I have been in for the year we''ve been living together, with him being in your place (except maybe sans the guilt

). He didn''t notice stuff that needed to be done around the flat, whereas those same things would get under my skin, so I''d do them, even though he didn''t help out anywhere near as often as I hoped he would. Like, NOWHERE near. He told me a few times it was because he just didn''t notice that stuff needed to be done until I brought attention to it, but I never wanted to nag him about it because nagging sucks. Then he''d notice sometimes, but say he''d do it later...and then it wouldn''t get done.

Eventually I got frustrated because I''m not his personal maid or chef, and if he leaves things because he doesn''t take the time to look around and see what needs to be done or because he doesn''t make the time to do them, then that can be interpreted as him saying that I *do* have the time, because it''s just the two of us that live here. So if he doesn''t do it, who else will? And that''s almost like saying his time is more important than mine. Which, it isn''t. Of course, he didn''t see it like that, until I explained to him how it felt to be in my position. (Then he *did* feel a bit guilty!

)

So, we sat down and talked about each of us doing our fair share and what chores we''d prefer to do around the house, and then I made up a schedule on the fridge to remind of us of who does what chores when. I feel heaps better because it''s not all up to me, and he''s said he feels like he''s really contributing to our home together and that he''s reducing my stress levels (which he is). So, it seems to have made both of us feel a lot better.

Anyway, the point!! I agree completely with the others who have said that you shouldn''t feel guilty for not picking up your man''s socks (his socks, HE picks them up!). But if this is more a feeling of generally feeling like you don''t contribute enough to household chores, then sit down with your guy and have the talk we did and come to an agreement about what you''d be happy to do, and (if you need reminders like my guy), make a schedule or write it up on a magnetic dry erase board on your fridge when it''s your turn to take out the recycling or clean the bathrooms or whatever. Ours is just a paper one for now, but it works! Maybe you don''t cook often because you don''t like it?--if that''s the case, then offer to do the washing up after he''s cooked. Little things like that could make a big difference.

 

[Circe]

My relationship with my husband is sort of like this. Well, that is if your husband does that sort of stuff for you, and what you feel guilty about is not reciprocating: if it''s just the pressure to pick up after him without his having set some kind of a better example, then ... yeah, you have nothing to feel guilty about.

My husband is the sort of guy who will always remember to buy me Diet Coke. He periodically washes my bathroom. It''s how he expresses love. Me? I express love with carefully chosen presents and outpourings of affection. His style makes me feel guilty sometimes: unfairly, my style also makes me feel like he''s not being romantic enough (as you can tell, I am also more prone to dissatisfaction). While I think it''s overhyped and I dislike the proselytizing nature of it, there''s definitely something to that 5 love languages book ....

And it runs throughout our lives in other ways, too. He''ll strike up conversations with strangers: I''ll curse them out for looking at me funny. Chalk it up to his coming from a large and boisterous family while I''m the only child of only children, or to his having grown up on a farm while I grew up in the city, I don''t know, but at the end of the day, we''re just different people, and that''s okay. I''m nice in my own way, too, just not by washing people''s bathrooms/picking up their socks, and not ever to strangers.

What worries me about your post is this sense of inferiority that I''m getting off of it. I''m not sure where it''s coming from: is it all you, or is he constantly making you feel not-good-enough for not doing things the way he''d do them?

 

[Indylady]

Date: 7/30/2009 8:14:17 PM
Author: Circe
My relationship with my husband is sort of like this. Well, that is if your husband does that sort of stuff for you, and what you feel guilty about is not reciprocating: if it''s just the pressure to pick up after him without his having set some kind of a better example, then ... yeah, you have nothing to feel guilty about.


My husband is the sort of guy who will always remember to buy me Diet Coke. He periodically washes my bathroom. It''s how he expresses love. Me? I express love with carefully chosen presents and outpourings of affection. His style makes me feel guilty sometimes: unfairly, my style also makes me feel like he''s not being romantic enough (as you can tell, I am also more prone to dissatisfaction). While I think it''s overhyped and I dislike the proselytizing nature of it, there''s definitely something to that 5 love languages book ....


And it runs throughout our lives in other ways, too. He''ll strike up conversations with strangers: I''ll curse them out for looking at me funny. Chalk it up to his coming from a large and boisterous family while I''m the only child of only children, or to his having grown up on a farm while I grew up in the city, I don''t know, but at the end of the day, we''re just different people, and that''s okay. I''m nice in my own way, too, just not by washing people''s bathrooms/picking up their socks, and not ever to strangers.


What worries me about your post is this sense of inferiority that I''m getting off of it. I''m not sure where it''s coming from: is it all you, or is he constantly making you feel not-good-enough for not doing things the way he''d do them?

Ditto Circe: Do you feel constantly guilty about other things too?

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 7/30/2009 5:57:51 PM
Author:CJ2008
... I often compare myself to him and others and come away with the conclusion that everyone''s way nicer than I am. Do you ever think this way?

This is going to come as a real shocker I know, but nope, I never feel that way. I already know there are a lot of people "nicer" than I am. I''m totally OK with it

In my world, both people are expected to pick up after themselves, but if one of us is going to be a slacker and one of us the cleaner/doer, I vote for slacker every time. I just bought a mat for my front door, it says "I''m not your doormat"

 

[cindygenit]

No I don''t feel that way, and neither should you!

Honestly, i do most of the cooking, most of the cleaning, and ALL of the clothes folding and ironing. That is on top of my job as an engineer. I only do these things because, to me, cleaning and cooking is relaxing---> *runs away and hides*

Anyway, little things like that shouldn''t bug you. Your husband is a grown man who can clean up after himself.

 

[Dannielle]

Date: 7/30/2009 5:57:51 PM
Author:CJ2008
I am a nice person, but not like over-the-top nice. I do things for DH but more often than not I am selfish - I''m kind of a ''I take care of me'' ''you take care of you'' kind of person. Although I do a lot of things that are for the benefit of both of us and I treat him with respect and love.

Silly example - he leaves the ironing board sometimes. Sometimes (many times, actually) I can walk right by it and not put it away. Not because I''m being mean necessarily, but it almost goes unperceived because I didn''t leave it out. Same with his socks, if he runs out of the house and leaves them in the bathroom. I''ll move them over but wont necessarily put them in the hamper. Little things like that.

When he points it out though, even if it''s kidding, I feel incredibly guilty. I am realizing lately that I feel guilty about one thing or another 99% of the time. I definitely don''t cook often enough, I definitely don''t do a lot of things often enough...it seems like I carry around a lot of guilt about how I am (this also goes into other things like not calling my parents enough or not doing one thing or another enough). I do a lot more than what my natural tendency is (i.e., I''ll cook here and there to be ''nice'' and show him love - when I don''t it''s not that I dont want to, but it''s that I think how long it''ll take - and I''m guarded with my time).

He''s a really good person and I often compare myself to him and others and come away with the conclusion that everyone''s way nicer than I am. Do you ever think this way? And if so, do you try to change yourself to be ''nicer'' and do more and be less selfish?

*Looks around and see''s the ironing board and FI''s work shirts*

Meh

 

[Porridge]

Your FI points out that *you* haven''t put away the things that *he* has left out?

Eh...no, you should not be feeling guilty!!

And we''re not all charity workers and equal rights crusaders. We all do our bit, but humans are inherently selfish. You sound just fine, don''t be so hard on yourself.

 

[CJ2008]

I don''t even know where to start...each of you has made a point that made me think...so hopefully in what I''m about to say I''ll answer all the questions.

In all fairness, this sense of inferiority, or not being good enough has been with me for a long, long time. It all kind of revolved around not being as "social" as other people - so for example, my friends used to always complain that when I went to parties or get-togethers I always left within a few hours or knew when I wanted to leave. So the amount of time I spent was never "good enough". So I always felt a bit like I stood out, and not in a good way.

Perhaps if DH told you his side of how he sees things you might see things a little different...he resents that I''m not "unconditional". So for example, I''m all about 50/50...we should do the big grocery shopping together, etc. For a long time, I would not go unless he came with me. The difference is that at that time we both worked full-time out of the home. Now, I''m working part-time, mostly from home, and he has a much longer commute. So I have definitely relaxed with that now and go to the supermarket to pick up essentials often - sometimes I''ll even do the big shopping by myself.

He probably feels that I keep score, and I guess in some ways I do. It''s nothing personal against him, I''ve been this way all my life. I do think that I do lots of things out of love and because I want to, and I do feel that I do most of the housework, even though he contributes a lot. As I said earlier, he''s very neat and clean and when he does things he does them well (i.e., washing out patio floors, which is a LOT of work). So maybe because I''m not unconditional 100% he in turn feels he''s not doing enough or pulling his own weight, and he resents feeling that way.

I tried doing the negotiating thing - I tried saying to him, hey listen, I hate to cook, I hate to do the floors. How about you do those things? He''ll say yes, but then ends up not doing it as often as it should be done and I think he resents that I don''t just do it more often instead of waiting for him to do it. And I''m like "but that''s your job!" And some time later I think - "goodness, he''s commuting, working overtime, you''re being selfish." Same with preparing lunch for him to take to work...I do it sometimes, out of love, but not all the time...he says he doesn''t expect it but he''ll make little joking comments about it and I end up feeling guilty. Sometimes I even feel guilty when he''s running around rushing out of the house as if it''s my fault he''s late...I get the "feeling" that he''s resenting me on some level, even though he says no. I remember one time my sister was here and she was like "oh my goodness he''s running around like a madman and you''re just sitting there". And its'' true, many times...but other times I will prepare his lunch or put things together I know he''ll need to help him save time.

I feel that I contribute a lot to "us" - including house chores and keeping us organized and stocked with groceries. Plus the fact that even though I don''t make a lot of $ I do work. But there''s always this feeling that I should be doing more. A lot of it comes from me, part of it I feel he says or feels without saying it.

And just to be clear - I DON''T feel I should pick up his socks...if I do it it''s because I want to be nice...but when he makes a comment, it makes me resent I do it at all the few times I do it.

 

[CJ2008]

Any more advice for me guys? I know things need to change (either with me or with him) and it was helpful to hear your perspectives.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

If both people in the relationship are working, they should pick up their own things.

I'm a SAHM so it's somehow turned into my job to pick up socks belonging to three guys and underwear, as well. It drives me nuts, but my DH works all day, so I try not to complain. The other night, while my husband was watching a baseball game after a 10-hour workday, he tossed his socks on the floor and I threw them on his lap. Then he dropped them on the floor.

I could complain, but I guess it is my job, in a way.

Actually, OKAY, I admit, I'm a terrible housewife. Yes, DH leaves his socks on the floor, but it takes me a few days to pick them up. Why? Because housework bores the h*ll out of me!

I hardly cook dinner either. Well, I do, but it's not gourmet. . .hehehe

I feel so guilty, but really, how can mopping the floor be stimulating when I could be posting here on PS?

 

[CJ2008]

MC, totally unrelated to this post...

But your avatar amuses me so much because it feels like your cat''s talking to me...haha

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 7/31/2009 7:50:05 PM
Author: CJ2008
MC, totally unrelated to this post...

But your avatar amuses me so much because it feels like your cat''s talking to me...haha

He practically is! He''s a huge talker. Meows constantly and has a specific call when he''s looking for me. lol

 

[phoenixgirl]

Hmmm CJ, at first I thought your husband sounded really unreasonable. Usually when someone leaves his socks lying around, it''s because they don''t bother him/he doesn''t notice, not because he''s like, ok, here, you pick these up. But then I read your second post, and it sounds like your husband is picking up on the fact that you keep track of who''s done what and don''t do things as a matter of principle and he''s calling you out on it.

I agree that things should be equitable. But it doesn''t sound like your husband is lazy if he is willing to cook/do the floors, at least sometimes. What I would suggest is that instead of 50/50, what you guys do around the house should more reflect how much free time you have. If he''s working/commuting 50 hours a week, and you''re working 25 from home, then the split should be more 65/35 or something like that. When I''m home from school over the summer, I take on all the cooking, shopping, etc. DH still does the gardening because that''s his thing, but I don''t think it''s fair for me to have no real responsibility all day and then expect him to spend what little free time he has cooking for me.

But mostly, I''d be concerned about the feelings behind this dynamic. Why are you digging in your heels and not doing things instead of reaching a compromise with your husband? And why do you feel so guilty when he points out what you''re doing? I think counseling would really help you figure out why you have this feeling of inferiority, as you call it. Once you''ve dealt with that in individual counseling, you can decide if you and your husband should go in together to work on the division of labor at home.

And the old adage, do unto others . . . might make a difference. If you try to treat him the way you want to be treated (or better yet, the way you think he wants to be treated), you''ll probably find that he''ll reciprocate. Maybe the way he wants to be loved is with little thoughtful gestures like making his lunch. When he mentions it, it''s probably because he''s hoping you''ll do it more. If you think that''s reasonable based on how much free time you have, why not? Then maybe he would be better about cooking dinner consistently. You don''t really have anything to lose by trying to be more thoughtful because worst case scenario you trade one problem -- both of you in a staring contest over who''s going to do what -- for another -- you actually doing more and finding that he still doesn''t warm up/do more. But I suspect it will make for a happier home where both of you try to do more for each other as a result.

 

[CJ2008]

MC - he is so cute.

To everyone else - although I didn't acknoweldge each of you individually, thank you all for your feedback.

Phoenix - I love your posts (I think I've told you that before).

DH is definitely "calling me out on it."

My husband is the LEAST lazy person I know. And I am totally with you on splitting the chores according to how much free time we each have - and I do think that's how the ratio is split up...I should also mention that there are plenty of weeks where I actually end up having a full-time schedule...

I can't put my finger on what the bottom line is with this for me...I'm confused about it. I think what the bottom line is that I ALREADY do my share, based on our free time - so my resentment comes from him wanting me to do more - even if they're little things like picking up his socks or making him lunch or putting the ironing board away. And when I DO do those things, it really bothers me when he'll comment that something isn't right about the way I did it - i.e., if I pick up the socks, he comments jokingly about how I didn't put them in the hamper. If I make him lunch, maybe I put too much PB in his sandwich. I am probably oversensitive in this area because I feel I am doing something FOR him that I don't really "have" to be doing in the 1st place. Plus I am oversensitive to criticism from him in general.

I go through phases where I completely "let go" and do nice things - even when I had a full-time week - I'll go to the supermarket, do a big shopping, and then cook (even though I don't like to cook and I would much rather be working on a project for work - yes I like working The truth is, most of the time I'm waiting for/expecting the appreciation from him, because he "knows" that's so not me. So when he doesn't say "oh, wow, thanks this is a nice surprise" I feel like he expects it and it bothers me. Or when he tries the food and starts asking me questions about how I prepared it (usually implying something isn't quite right with it) - that hurts!

Even though I've told him how I feel with this somethings he digs HIS heels in and doesn't give me what he knows I want/need in the moment because he resents having to do anything - since it should be unconditional on my end and I should know he appreciates it. So he won't give me what I need at the time, I feel down and disappointed, and I think "I'm never doing that again". Same thing with the floors...the house will be immaculate, but the floor will be dirty...it bothers me if he points it out - 1st, it's what we said HE would do, and 2nd, have you noticed the REST of the house? Although there are plenty of times he'll leave a me a note saying the house looks nice or point out how nice something looks. For some reason I need the appreciation in the moment especially with cooking. Sounds childish doesn't it. But that's the reason I never keep up the nice things "long enough" - even though I do sprinkle nice things here and there.

So not sure where the guilt comes in from this...except maybe that it stems from knowing I'm holding back...I guess there's also a fear that if I do all these things then I'll end up doing all the chores and all the cooking just because I'm the girl - and what do I do then? To which he always points out that the evidence is to the contrary, since he's not that type of guy and does help around the house.

ETA - in all honesty, I feel I have MANY times tried to compromise - i.e., you take the floors. How many times do you think you can deal with cooking? I can do the shopping and I'll do the dishes. He's also supposed to dust the bedroom furniture. These are all things that we decided TOGETHER were fair - and even if he mopped the floors once every couple of weeks, or even once a month, I'd be happy (since I would be maintaining them the rest of the time). But he isn't structured - so he ends up NOT doing those chores on a consistent basis, or at all...so it bothers me that he says he'll do something and doesn't...but then feel horrible that on his days off he'd had to do these things and I feel incredibly guilty (even though OF COURSE on MY days off, that's what I'M doing - cleaning and doing errands)

 

[phoenixgirl]

Hmmm, ok, I'm changing my mind again. I don't think the solution is just for you to stop keeping score and do more. I think this is one of those yin and yang situations where you both are treating each other the way you want to be treated but not the way the other person wants.

On one hand, it sounds really controlling for your husband to criticize where you put the socks and how much peanut butter you put on his sandwiches. But on the flip side, you'd like to criticize how infrequently he actually follows through on floor cleaning and cooking; you just don't out of guilt. Neither of these is the right way to go about it -- criticizing or not saying anything. You need to find a way to discuss these issues in a spirit of compromise and love. I find that it helps when I joke about something my husband is doing that bugs me, like when he didn't unpack a suitcase after a trip and then appeared to be living out of it for days. I was like, "Oh no! You must be leaving me since you're living out of a suitcase!" in a joking way, and then we giggled about it and he put it away. Keeping it lighthearted helped him see what was wrong with never putting his suitcase away and helped me not fixate on it and be all, WHAT, YOU EXPECT ME TO PICK UP AFTER YOU ALL THE TIME!!?!!

But I can relate to your husband in some ways too. DH is in charge of the garden, but he lets things get really overgrown. It's not laziness -- he's out there all the time doing stuff (mostly compulsively planting things where there isn't any more room) -- but the end result is that trying to get out to the car is like running a gauntlet. And forget about using the sidewalk because giant plants, including two sunflowers are that over 10 feet tall (and our backyard is TINY), will leap out and try to get you. So I do feel like I have to point out that the garden has turned into "little shop of horrors" because he only sees beautiful plants when he looks around. And the other day I had to point out that DH shouldn't leave his dirt-caked frisbee golf bag (that he drags through the woods) on the granite bar counter since, you know, we eat there. So maybe that's how your husband feels when he points out how he would prefer the sandwiches and sock picking up to be. To him, the things that he is pointing out are reasonable tips so that you can be doing the things you're signed up for the "right" way.

How do you think he would feel/react if you criticized him similarly? Part of it is probably that it wouldn't bother him as much, so he doesn't realize how much he is hurting you by implying the dinner wasn't cooked right or whatever. Maybe he'd be like, "Less garlic? OK" if you implied you didn't liked how he cooked dinner. But on his end he needs to know that he should be more appreciative. I think I need to remember that with my DH too. I need to appreciate how hard he works on the garden and the love and pride he gets out of it. And I'd rather run the gauntlet through the giant plants than have to take care of the yard myself or, worse yet, have a lazy husband who just watches football or whatever all the time.

What if you cooked dinner together? Even over the summer when I'm cooking most meals, DH will come at sit at the bar with the laptop and chop things up if I ask. And he'll do whatever dishes I couldn't take care of while cooking, except he really hates putting leftovers in tupperware so I always do that. But that's ok because I really hate making doctor's appointments, so he does that for me. But the nice thing is that whoever is doing the cooking, we're both there together so it doesn't feel like such a chore.

You've just got to find a way to laugh at the stuff that drives you nuts and appreciate the good that you do have.

Oh, and if you can afford it, I highly recommend doing away with points of contention by paying strangers to do it for you . . . Not that you can afford a personal chef, but you could go to one of those places where you prepare a whole bunch of meals ahead of time and then freeze them. And then there's always a cleaning service. When strangers clean the floors, you don't have to get mad if your husband forgets. Especially if he points out the floors are dirty again, I think I'd say, "Yeah, and honey, I know how much you hate having to do them, so I thought maybe we should get a cleaning service so you don't have to spend your days off mopping and dusting . . ."

Goodness knows it would be more of a gift for yourself than anything!

 

[CJ2008]

Date: 8/1/2009 12:44:52 PM
Author: phoenixgirl
Hmmm, ok, I''m changing my mind again. I don''t think the solution is just for you to stop keeping score and do more. I think this is one of those yin and yang situations where you both are treating each other the way you want to be treated but not the way the other person wants.

Yes, absolutely.

On one hand, it sounds really controlling for your husband to criticize where you put the socks and how much peanut butter you put on his sandwiches. But on the flip side, you''d like to criticize how infrequently he actually follows through on floor cleaning and cooking; you just don''t out of guilt. Neither of these is the right way to go about it -- criticizing or not saying anything. You need to find a way to discuss these issues in a spirit of compromise and love. I find that it helps when I joke about something my husband is doing that bugs me, like when he didn''t unpack a suitcase after a trip and then appeared to be living out of it for days. I was like, ''Oh no! You must be leaving me since you''re living out of a suitcase!'' in a joking way, and then we giggled about it and he put it away. Keeping it lighthearted helped him see what was wrong with never putting his suitcase away and helped me not fixate on it and be all, WHAT, YOU EXPECT ME TO PICK UP AFTER YOU ALL THE TIME!!?!!

You''re right on the money. I agree 100% that the attitude with which we go into these discussions is key - I always tell DH "we''re on the same team." I think he goes into these discussions with less of a team spirit than I do. I figured out today as I was talking to him about this a little bit is that he resents that I have the issue in the first place. I think he thought that it would eventually go away once I realized he''s a good guy and isn''t going to take advantage and have me do all the work just because I''m the woman. He felt by carrying his own weight (or what he felt was his own weight) I would eventually let go and be more unconditional. Once he figured out that the issue would sometimes get better, but always returned, his resentment started. And so it became harder and harder for him to want to help me with this issue (i.e., be more appreciative right in the moment, etc.) He seemed to agree with this assessment...

But I can relate to your husband in some ways too. DH is in charge of the garden, but he lets things get really overgrown. It''s not laziness -- he''s out there all the time doing stuff (mostly compulsively planting things where there isn''t any more room) -- but the end result is that trying to get out to the car is like running a gauntlet. And forget about using the sidewalk because giant plants, including two sunflowers are that over 10 feet tall (and our backyard is TINY), will leap out and try to get you. So I do feel like I have to point out that the garden has turned into ''little shop of horrors'' because he only sees beautiful plants when he looks around. And the other day I had to point out that DH shouldn''t leave his dirt-caked frisbee golf bag (that he drags through the woods) on the granite bar counter since, you know, we eat there. So maybe that''s how your husband feels when he points out how he would prefer the sandwiches and sock picking up to be. To him, the things that he is pointing out are reasonable tips so that you can be doing the things you''re signed up for the ''right'' way.

Again, you''re right...whatever my DH doesn''t do isn''t out of laziness. It''s more a matter of not being structured (i.e., waiting to feel in the mood to do something rather than saying every Wednesday I''ll vacuum and make it a habit). And it isn''t out of him thinking, "just let her do it" (although sometimes I do think they''re little tests he sets up for me - to see if I''ll do it unconditionally and w/o getting mad. A lot of times I do whatever the thing is so I don''t have to feel the guilt or hear him tell me anything, but I do resent it.

And yes, DH is big on giving me tips. And I listen to him a lot - but sometimes I resent the tips. It''s like I just made you a sandwich - just eat it! Not everything has to be done perfectly. Or he''ll tell me I wiped the counter wrong and it''s streaky. A lot of times I''m like, so YOU pick up the paper towel and do it!

But I think that you hit on the real, underlying issue - HE wouldn''t mind ME doing the same to him. So IF (and it''s rare I do this) I say to him, you''re doing this wrong, do it this way, he listens. And it''s funny because when I do it, it''s to prove to him "aha, doesn''t feel good to be criticized does it?" But the thing is, he can just hear it and deal with it - same with his cooking. I''ll eat anything he makes and make sure to appreciate it - he''ll sit there and say "I cooked it too much, didn''t I" and if I said, yes, he''d be like "OK - I have to remember that for next time." Must be so cool to hear criticism and stay neutral. So we''re both treating each other our natural ways rather than taking into account how each would like to be treated.

Same with the humor...humor does NOT work for me - I might laugh a little bit because he''s funny but then I get a twinge of "hey what did you mean by that" and end up mad. Boy am I a PITA. But so is he in his own ways. So we do even out on that. Humor does work for him, but I was so afraid of trying it because of how I react to it. I have been doing that a little more lately - works like a charm, especially is he''s grumpy.

How do you think he would feel/react if you criticized him similarly? Part of it is probably that it wouldn''t bother him as much, so he doesn''t realize how much he is hurting you by implying the dinner wasn''t cooked right or whatever. Maybe he''d be like, ''Less garlic? OK'' if you implied you didn''t liked how he cooked dinner. But on his end he needs to know that he should be more appreciative. I think I need to remember that with my DH too. I need to appreciate how hard he works on the garden and the love and pride he gets out of it. And I''d rather run the gauntlet through the giant plants than have to take care of the yard myself or, worse yet, have a lazy husband who just watches football or whatever all the time.

What if you cooked dinner together? Even over the summer when I''m cooking most meals, DH will come at sit at the bar with the laptop and chop things up if I ask. And he''ll do whatever dishes I couldn''t take care of while cooking, except he really hates putting leftovers in tupperware so I always do that. But that''s ok because I really hate making doctor''s appointments, so he does that for me. But the nice thing is that whoever is doing the cooking, we''re both there together so it doesn''t feel like such a chore.

Yes, we do this sometimes. I make the side dishes while he grills. Works like a charm for me - but again, I feel he''s already deeply resentful and he''s not as in love with this idea as I am. It''s really like push and pull thing between us. It sucks, because I feel like we''re so close to finally making a breakthrough to get rid of this lingering issue, but I guess one of us always drops the ball. What I sometimes resent is that we''ll sit down and plan things ok you do this, I do this, but then he either forgets or says we never agreed to it or he ends up resenting having to do that in the first place. I believe this is due partly to him not being structured, where I love structure. I wonder if Gwendolyn''s suggestion to make a schedule/write things down would help. That way there''s no confusion as to what we agreed to and we can refer to it.

You''ve just got to find a way to laugh at the stuff that drives you nuts and appreciate the good that you do have.

Yes - he''s a good guy and we have so many good things that we share - and we definitely respect each other as people. What scares me about him is that he''s way more prone to resentment - I may blow up, but I get over it. I think resentment is poison - so I''m afraid one day he''ll shut down on me for good.

Oh, and if you can afford it, I highly recommend doing away with points of contention by paying strangers to do it for you . . . Not that you can afford a personal chef, but you could go to one of those places where you prepare a whole bunch of meals ahead of time and then freeze them. And then there''s always a cleaning service. When strangers clean the floors, you don''t have to get mad if your husband forgets. Especially if he points out the floors are dirty again, I think I''d say, ''Yeah, and honey, I know how much you hate having to do them, so I thought maybe we should get a cleaning service so you don''t have to spend your days off mopping and dusting . . .''

Goodness knows it would be more of a gift for yourself than anything!

This sounds wonderful. I kid around about this all the time. Unfortunately we''re just not making the $ right now to do this. I wish we did. And believe me, it''s ALWAYS in the back of my mind. I should probably cut something out and just start doing it. He may really love it once it starts...he LOVES clean floors.

We talked briefly today and I did tell him that we need to try once again to work on this...and he was on board once he realized that he IS indeed holding resentment and that HE has been holding back as well in his own ways.

Phoenix - I know these conversations can be quite time-consuming. I wanted you to know how much I appreciate you "talking" to me about this. It''s not something I would share with anybody IRL - not because I''m ashamed of the issue but because I feel it''s nobody''s business. Just the act of writing things down kind of helped connect some of the dots.

 

[phoenixgirl]

You''re welcome! Writing things out always helps me see things I didn''t see before.

Best of luck with everything.

 

[CJ2008]

Thank you Phoenix - I''m cooking for him right now. Sweet potatoes and mashed potatoes and chicken...I''m sure it won''t come out that great, and I really hate making the meat...this is all so time consuming! But...I know he''ll like that I did it.

Have a nice Saturday night.

 

[BigDiamonds]

I know I''m a little late here, but I wanted to chime in because DH and I got through something very similar.

I am basically a spoiled only child and unfailingly self-centered by nature. I have to remind myself to do something considerate for someone else occasionally. If I don''t actively remind myself, it will literally never occur to me. I''m not being deliberately rude, it''s just not on my radar.

DH is completely the opposite - very externally focused and giving. He is always picking up little things for me that he knows I would like, bringing home flowers, backing up all my photos to CD, etc. That''s just how he is.

Our problems come not so much from being different but from different expectations. I appreciate the things he does, but if he didn''t do them I wouldn''t judge him for it. Horribly, it''s possible that I wouldn''t even notice. But he sometimes feels taken advantage of, because he expects me to reciprocate the things that he does. When we talk about it, he knows it''s not realistic and that we just express our love in different ways, but it doesn''t stop the instinctive feelings. So I end up feeling guilty and wishing that I was more generous with my time/energy/money/whatever, and briefly run around doing nice things until I get distracted and forget again.

Our situation is complicated by the fact that I work full time at a pretty stressful job and he has been only intermittently employed for the last several years. Part of me feels like I''m entitled to being spoiled by him because I pay all of our bills while he sits at home. He''s wonderful about it and does almost all of the cooking, cleaning, shopping, organizing, etc., but instead of feeling grateful usually I feel entitled. Which certainly doesn''t motivate me to go above and beyond for him.

Anyway, I guess my point (wandering though it may be), is that you guys need to find a way to live together that makes both of you feel good about both of your contributions. If you don''t want to be on patrol for things that he''s left sitting around the house, then think of other things that you can do (or even that you do now), that contribute positively to your relationship. I bet you''re not nearly as selfish as you think you are.

Good luck - this is a complicated situation and definitely unique to each couple, so don''t feel like there is a "right" answer or a "right" way to behave. Just find what makes both of you happy.

 

[CJ2008]

Date: 8/2/2009 1:06:50 AM
Author: BigDiamonds
I know I''m a little late here, but I wanted to chime in because DH and I got through something very similar.

I am basically a spoiled only child and unfailingly self-centered by nature. I have to remind myself to do something considerate for someone else occasionally. If I don''t actively remind myself, it will literally never occur to me. I''m not being deliberately rude, it''s just not on my radar.

DH is completely the opposite - very externally focused and giving. He is always picking up little things for me that he knows I would like, bringing home flowers, backing up all my photos to CD, etc. That''s just how he is.

Our problems come not so much from being different but from different expectations. I appreciate the things he does, but if he didn''t do them I wouldn''t judge him for it. Horribly, it''s possible that I wouldn''t even notice. But he sometimes feels taken advantage of, because he expects me to reciprocate the things that he does. When we talk about it, he knows it''s not realistic and that we just express our love in different ways, but it doesn''t stop the instinctive feelings. So I end up feeling guilty and wishing that I was more generous with my time/energy/money/whatever, and briefly run around doing nice things until I get distracted and forget again.

Our situation is complicated by the fact that I work full time at a pretty stressful job and he has been only intermittently employed for the last several years. Part of me feels like I''m entitled to being spoiled by him because I pay all of our bills while he sits at home. He''s wonderful about it and does almost all of the cooking, cleaning, shopping, organizing, etc., but instead of feeling grateful usually I feel entitled. Which certainly doesn''t motivate me to go above and beyond for him.

Anyway, I guess my point (wandering though it may be), is that you guys need to find a way to live together that makes both of you feel good about both of your contributions. If you don''t want to be on patrol for things that he''s left sitting around the house, then think of other things that you can do (or even that you do now), that contribute positively to your relationship. I bet you''re not nearly as selfish as you think you are.

Good luck - this is a complicated situation and definitely unique to each couple, so don''t feel like there is a ''right'' answer or a ''right'' way to behave. Just find what makes both of you happy.

Hey BigDiamonds - it''s never too late

I think that''s what it is all about...different expectations...I do a lot of things, unfortunately, not always of the things he''d like. So it''s like I defend myself that I do a lot yet feel guilty at the same time. I think there might be a sense of entitlement on his end too - because he DOES work hard and has a long commute. I guess just like I feel entitled to certain responses from him.

We''re working on it - as much as he can be a pain, he''s worth it. And so am I.

Thanks for your comments and insights.