DF I''m curious about your watch(es)
- Thread starter kenny
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Do you guys have an opinion on how reputable Yorktime is?
They don't say squat about how well it keeps time or even that it works at all.
Is this a given?
Since it appears to be unused is that a bad thing for a 90 year old watch?
They do not mention it has been serviced.
Is this a red flag or is servicing not needed if it was packed away unused?
What are your feelings about this watch?
I do wish it had a gold cover over the face for protection as this is a watch I would use.
Would you consider it if you were into pocket watches?
Fair price?
Talk me out of this.
They don't say squat about how well it keeps time or even that it works at all.
Is this a given?
Since it appears to be unused is that a bad thing for a 90 year old watch?
They do not mention it has been serviced.
Is this a red flag or is servicing not needed if it was packed away unused?
What are your feelings about this watch?
I do wish it had a gold cover over the face for protection as this is a watch I would use.
Would you consider it if you were into pocket watches?
Fair price?
Talk me out of this.
that_someone_special
Ideal_Rock
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L
Lula
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Date: 5/27/2010 5:17:31 PM
Author: kenny
Do you guys have an opinion on how reputable Yorktime is?
They don't say squat about how well it keeps time or even that it works at all.
Is this a given?
Since it appears to be unused is that a bad thing for a 90 year old watch?
They do not mention it has been serviced.
Is this a red flag or is servicing not needed if it was packed away unused?
What are your feelings about this watch?
I do wish it had a gold cover over the face for protection as I would use this watch.
Would you consider it if you were into pocket watches?
Fair price?
Talk me out of this.
YorkTime is owned by Rod Cleaver. He has a good reputation. Other watch sites recommend him and he's written several articles on Rolex watches. He is a Rolex expert, I believe; do a search on Timezone.com - his name may come up. The luxury watch world is a very small world. The luxury vintage watch world is even smaller. Many of these guys -- and they're mostly guys -- are collectors and watch makers who sell watches to feed their own "habit." They know each other -- or know of each other.
What I would do is e-mail or call the owner and talk to him about this watch. He notes that the watch has never been worked on -- some watch makers (mine) do not believe you should wear a watch without regular cleaning and oiling, especially if you wear the watch regularly. Other experts -- Zaf Basha from classicwatch.com -- have said that cleaning and oiling is not necessary if the watch is worn/wound just a few times a month. My guess is that Rod Cleaver (what a name, huh?) will give you some recommendations on how to care for the watch if you plan to wear it regularly.
A pocket watch with a double case is called a hunter case. Some hunter cases are very ornate (set with jewels; engraved; embossed). What I like about this Patek is that it is sleek and clean in design. Pocket watches without the hunter case are made to be worn, too, and you can get the crystal polished and replaced. I'm not dong a very good job of talking you out of this, am I?
Whatever you decide to do, I'd definitely give the owner of YorkTime a call, just to learn more about this watch and vintage watches in general. These guys are passionate about watches and it's a dying art.
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I called the merchant.
He says the watch was never used, just packed away when it was new.
It has never been serviced and he was surprised I was considering using it.
He said such a watch is usually sold to a collector who would preserve it unused in new condition.
Now I'm thinking servicing it and using will drastically reduce its value and may even be a crime.
He says the watch was never used, just packed away when it was new.
It has never been serviced and he was surprised I was considering using it.
He said such a watch is usually sold to a collector who would preserve it unused in new condition.
Now I'm thinking servicing it and using will drastically reduce its value and may even be a crime.
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Lula
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Okay, given what the dealer said, I think I can talk you out of this. Yes, it's a collector's watch. Yes, it is really rare -- very rare, especially the mint condition packaging. There are people who are serious collectors who would think you were nuts -- and sacrilegious even -- to even think of wearing this watch as, well, a watch.
A watch like this would need to be insured -- but in a way it is irreplaceable, so if lost, it can never be truly replaced. A watch like this requires a skilled watch maker to watch over it (really bad unintentional pun!). A cleaning and oiling for this baby will cost several hundred bucks, easily. You may need to send it back to Yorktime in Canada to have it serviced/checked because no local watch maker (and I know you live near LA) is skilled enough to touch it or, more likely, won't be willing to take the risk of servicing it.
If you lose it or break it, you may feel very guilty for not preserving this piece of history.
How's that?
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Lula
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Yeah, well, DF probably has a Monet over his koi pond...
Seriously, I wouldn''t recommend this as a "first" vintage watch. It''s really a watch that a group of watch nuts take out of the safe and admire as they sit around and sip sherry and smoke fine cigars. Now, if that''s something you can see yourself getting into, go for it.
But part of the fun of vintage watches is having a small "wardrobe" of nice ones that you can wear for different occasions. They really do make a statement. One thing I like to do is check out the watches in period films -- rarely you can get a glimpse of some pretty nice vintage watches that some costume and prop crew has put a lot of time into sourcing for the film. I read somewhere that the costume people for the show "Madmen" bought a lot of 1950 and 1960s Hamiltons and now the price of those is sky high.
You have great taste, Kenny, and I think you''ll find something equally stunning that doesn''t need to be babied quite so much.
L
Lula
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This is what I'd start with:
Omega
ETA: Or this one if you prefer yellow gold. But the Omega is a bit more pristine because the dial has been refinished. Some people care about that; some people don't.
But with either of these you get top of the line watch making without the worry that you're ruining a museum piece by wearing it.
ETA2: And check out the Jaeger LeCoultre watches available at Zaf Basha's site link
ETA3: For the same price as the museum quality Patek, you could have this link which I believe is on the cover of Basha's book on the history of JLC. That would get DF's attention!
Omega
ETA: Or this one if you prefer yellow gold. But the Omega is a bit more pristine because the dial has been refinished. Some people care about that; some people don't.
But with either of these you get top of the line watch making without the worry that you're ruining a museum piece by wearing it.
ETA2: And check out the Jaeger LeCoultre watches available at Zaf Basha's site link
ETA3: For the same price as the museum quality Patek, you could have this link which I believe is on the cover of Basha's book on the history of JLC. That would get DF's attention!
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i don''t know the value on vintage watches,but if had Kenny''s
http://marina.fortunecity.com/westindia/59/ppc89.htm
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might be too cheap?Date: 5/27/2010 5:17:31 PM
Author: kenny
Do you guys have an opinion on how reputable Yorktime is?
They don''t say squat about how well it keeps time or even that it works at all.
Is this a given?
Since it appears to be unused is that a bad thing for a 90 year old watch?
They do not mention it has been serviced.
Is this a red flag or is servicing not needed if it was packed away unused?
What are your feelings about this watch?
I do wish it had a gold cover over the face for protection as this is a watch I would use.
Would you consider it if you were into pocket watches?
Fair price?
Talk me out of this.
ask them for the Ref # and the serial #.
L
Lula
Guest
Date: 5/28/2010 3:56:45 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
might be too cheap?Date: 5/27/2010 5:17:31 PM
Author: kenny
Do you guys have an opinion on how reputable Yorktime is?
They don't say squat about how well it keeps time or even that it works at all.
Is this a given?
Since it appears to be unused is that a bad thing for a 90 year old watch?
They do not mention it has been serviced.
Is this a red flag or is servicing not needed if it was packed away unused?
What are your feelings about this watch?
I do wish it had a gold cover over the face for protection as this is a watch I would use.
Would you consider it if you were into pocket watches?
Fair price?
Talk me out of this.might be a CZ in diamond term?
ask them for the Ref # and the serial #.
Always a good idea to get the ref # and serial # so it can be verified through the Patek Co. With regard to fakes, here's what I know:
Vintage quartz watches are more typically copied (lots of fake quartz Concords on ebay, e.g.) than are vintage mechanical watches.
Some companies -- Tissot -- have reissued modern versions of vintage models. Again, the ref. # and serial # will tell you if it's original or a reissue.
Pocket watches are not as popular as vintage wristwatches, so copies tend to be less of a problem.
Watch innovations, similar to diamond cutting innovations, happened over a period of time. So you also have to know if the watch you are considering buying represents the technology of the time -- so if I saw a watch similar to the one DF just linked being sold as a 100-year-old vintage watch, I would know it is impossible -- the technology didn't exist.
Again, I'm a hobbyist, not a pro, and I rely on the good people on the two watch forums mentioned above to help me learn about verifying the authenticity, fakes, etc.
L
Lula
Guest
Date: 5/28/2010 3:37:27 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
i don''t know the value on vintage watches,but if had Kenny''s
http://marina.fortunecity.com/westindia/59/ppc89.htm
So DF, this watch would be $6,000 give or take another 100 grand?
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i have no idea.Date: 5/28/2010 7:56:09 AM
Author: sarap333
Date: 5/28/2010 3:37:27 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
i don''t know the value on vintage watches,but if had Kenny''s
http://marina.fortunecity.com/westindia/59/ppc89.htm
So DF, this watch would be $6,000 give or take another 100 grand?
L
Lula
Guest
Date: 5/28/2010 9:49:37 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
i have no idea.Date: 5/28/2010 7:56:09 AM
Author: sarap333
Date: 5/28/2010 3:37:27 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
i don''t know the value on vintage watches,but if had Kenny''s
http://marina.fortunecity.com/westindia/59/ppc89.htm
So DF, this watch would be $6,000 give or take another 100 grand?
I just looked at the listing again - it says it weighs 3 pounds! WTH??? Add some more zeros to my cost estimate.
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Date: 5/28/2010 3:37:27 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
i don't know the value on vintage watches,but if had Kenny's
http://marina.fortunecity.com/westindia/59/ppc89.htm
Ah yes, those.
I had all four of those but I gave them away to the kids of my maids.
Darn kids - they went swimming with them and ruined them.
Then they disassembled them and took every piece out to dry them but couldn't put them back together no matter how hard they banged with the hammer.
They were a tad expensive so I hope this didn't affect the value.
Seriously, thanks so much guyz and galz for all the info in this thread.
I'm copying the links into MS Word so they don't go bye bye when PS 2.0 rolls out.
jewelerman
Ideal_Rock
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Kenny,
The Patek is a great choice!In the world of watch collectors Patek is considered by most to be the best watch made(the Rolls Royce of Watches with only 10,000 in production per year world wide and ALWAYS in huge demand)It is said that there are two watch brands that hold their value as an "investment"...Patek and Rolex.There are two schools of thought among collectors...collect and never wear and collect and wear(damm the torpedoes)I respect both camps and would tell you to always have a luxury watch serviced properly by it manufacture(a Patek should ALWAYS go back to Patek for servicing) that will be an investment in itself(a basic cleaning by Rolex costs $500.00). I personally wouldn''t not wear a Patek for a every day watch.The advice i might offer is to study,study,study before investing!Just as you did with your diamond...exact type of situation...if you spend your money in a hurry then you may be disappointed with the long term outcome.I visit www.watchuseek.com in the vintage watch section to chat about vintage timepieces.What you might consider is buying an American made pocket watch as a starter...there are literally hundreds (thousands) of early 20th century pocket watches(1900-1920s) on the market that would cost under $150 in running condition by manufacturers like Elgin.Good Luck!
The Patek is a great choice!In the world of watch collectors Patek is considered by most to be the best watch made(the Rolls Royce of Watches with only 10,000 in production per year world wide and ALWAYS in huge demand)It is said that there are two watch brands that hold their value as an "investment"...Patek and Rolex.There are two schools of thought among collectors...collect and never wear and collect and wear(damm the torpedoes)I respect both camps and would tell you to always have a luxury watch serviced properly by it manufacture(a Patek should ALWAYS go back to Patek for servicing) that will be an investment in itself(a basic cleaning by Rolex costs $500.00). I personally wouldn''t not wear a Patek for a every day watch.The advice i might offer is to study,study,study before investing!Just as you did with your diamond...exact type of situation...if you spend your money in a hurry then you may be disappointed with the long term outcome.I visit www.watchuseek.com in the vintage watch section to chat about vintage timepieces.What you might consider is buying an American made pocket watch as a starter...there are literally hundreds (thousands) of early 20th century pocket watches(1900-1920s) on the market that would cost under $150 in running condition by manufacturers like Elgin.Good Luck!
L
Lula
Guest
Jewlerman, thanks for mentioning watchuseek.com. It's another great sales/forum site that I forgot to include.
And you make an excellent point about sending any name brand, especially Rolex, Patek, JLC, back to the manufacturer. No one looking at vintage watches should underestimate the maintenance and care costs, e.g., to have my Hamilton and Bulova vintage mechanical watches serviced cost @ $125 per watch. These I have serviced locally because they are "work horse" everyday type watches that have good names attached to them, but are not rare or complicated watches/movements. You can find a list of qualified watchmakers in your area on the watch forum sites. There is an extremely well-respected watchmaker in Canada -- whose name I cannot remember right now, but he's mentioned on some of the forums -- who actually is very skilled in restoration/repair of vintage watches. As you can imagine, getting the right parts for a vintage watch could pose a problem. This guy has a stockroom of replacement parts.
Sending the watch back to the manufacturer for cleaning and oiling costs considerably more.
That is why most vintage watch lovers typically have a collection of "good, better, best" watches, not only because we love them, but because the cost of repair of a "best" watch is high, so you don't want to expose the watch to heavy wear.
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