Defies Words...Includes Actual Violence

[ruby59]

Article was posted by Deb because a white man hurt a Muslim woman.

If it was white on white or black on black - in the name of Trump - would she have posted it just the same.

Hate crime or violence - someone was hurt badly. Does it really matter why?

You literally cannot be serious. "Does it matter?" OF COURSE IT DOES!!! Why else would "hate crime" be a distinction? Your level of ignorance about this is appalling.

Take the example of the 3 black people who pulled that white man out of the car and beat him.

They called him a Trump supporter. But they were careful not to call him a honky or cracker.

So this makes it violence, not a hate crime.

Did they go after him because he was a Trump supporter or because he was white?

And again what difference does it make, since he was just as severely hurt and traumatized.

 

[ruby59]

Deb, the saddest thing is that for every one of those incidents Trump supporters justify these reports with more of their own as you can see above.

You are right. ruby is not using any logic in what she posted.

ruby-

What the hell does an attack on a Trump supporter have to do with an attack on a Muslim?

One is a hate crime. The other is just an act of political recrimination. Both parties do it. The attacks against Jews in Nazi Germany were not just attacks by the National Socialist Party members against Communist Party members or vice versa. You are a Jew. You know this.

Get a grip, woman!

Deb

Hate crime - read the articles again as to the 3 black men who beat that man. The coward who hit the man with the flag pole had his face covered.

ruby-

There is a difference between a reprehensible crime and a hate crime. In my opinion, it is actually more reprehensible for a father to beat his toddler to death because he won't be quiet, a fairly common occurrence in the United States, than for a teenager to spray paint a swastika on a Jewish temple (your mileage may vary). Nonetheless, the former is not a hate crime and the latter is.

Deb

Label it anyway you want.

And if people want to consider spray painting a swastika (I am Jewish) more reprehensible then a father killing his baby, by labeling the first a hate crime, then there is something seriously wrong with our laws.

 

[AGBF]

Deb, the saddest thing is that for every one of those incidents Trump supporters justify these reports with more of their own as you can see above.

You are right. ruby is not using any logic in what she posted.

ruby-

What the hell does an attack on a Trump supporter have to do with an attack on a Muslim?

One is a hate crime. The other is just an act of political recrimination. Both parties do it. The attacks against Jews in Nazi Germany were not just attacks by the National Socialist Party members against Communist Party members or vice versa. You are a Jew. You know this.

Get a grip, woman!

Deb

And did you see all the incidents of children attacking each other, probably thanks to that crazy woman in the other "defies words" thread.

ruby-

Children attacking each other is not a hate crime. Other people have defined what a hate crime is for you in this thread, so I do not feel that I need to do so. You are attempting to refute my argument above with this list of yours. What I said above is that an attack on a Trump supporter is not the same as "a hate crime". What does this have to do with a hate crime?

 

[AGBF]

Deb, the saddest thing is that for every one of those incidents Trump supporters justify these reports with more of their own as you can see above.

You are right. ruby is not using any logic in what she posted.

ruby-

What the hell does an attack on a Trump supporter have to do with an attack on a Muslim?

One is a hate crime. The other is just an act of political recrimination. Both parties do it. The attacks against Jews in Nazi Germany were not just attacks by the National Socialist Party members against Communist Party members or vice versa. You are a Jew. You know this.

Get a grip, woman!

Deb

Hate crime - read the articles again as to the 3 black men who beat that man. The coward who hit the man with the flag pole had his face covered.

ruby-

There is a difference between a reprehensible crime and a hate crime. In my opinion, it is actually more reprehensible for a father to beat his toddler to death because he won't be quiet, a fairly common occurrence in the United States, than for a teenager to spray paint a swastika on a Jewish temple (your mileage may vary). Nonetheless, the former is not a hate crime and the latter is.

Deb

Label it anyway you want.


And if people want to consider spray painting a swastika (I am Jewish) more reprehensible then a father killing his baby, by labeling the first a hate crime, then there is something seriously wrong with our laws.

No, ruby, they do not want to consider painting the swastika more reprehensible by calling it a hate crime; they want to categorize it by calling it a hate crime.

I have to go. My husband has been calling me for a while now. Would someone else talk to ruby?

Deb

 

[lovedogs]

Deb, the saddest thing is that for every one of those incidents Trump supporters justify these reports with more of their own as you can see above.

You are right. ruby is not using any logic in what she posted.

ruby-

What the hell does an attack on a Trump supporter have to do with an attack on a Muslim?

One is a hate crime. The other is just an act of political recrimination. Both parties do it. The attacks against Jews in Nazi Germany were not just attacks by the National Socialist Party members against Communist Party members or vice versa. You are a Jew. You know this.

Get a grip, woman!

Deb

Hate crime - read the articles again as to the 3 black men who beat that man. The coward who hit the man with the flag pole had his face covered.

ruby-

There is a difference between a reprehensible crime and a hate crime. In my opinion, it is actually more reprehensible for a father to beat his toddler to death because he won't be quiet, a fairly common occurrence in the United States, than for a teenager to spray paint a swastika on a Jewish temple (your mileage may vary). Nonetheless, the former is not a hate crime and the latter is.

Deb

Label it anyway you want.


And if people want to consider spray painting a swastika (I am Jewish) more reprehensible then a father killing his baby, by labeling the first a hate crime, then there is something seriously wrong with our laws.

No, ruby, they do not want to consider painting the swastika more reprehensible by calling it a hate crime; they want to categorize it by calling it a hate crime.

I have to go. My husband has been calling me for a while now. Would someone else talk to ruby?

Deb

I've tried and failed. Someone else can try now.

 

[lovedogs]

Article was posted by Deb because a white man hurt a Muslim woman.

If it was white on white or black on black - in the name of Trump - would she have posted it just the same.

Hate crime or violence - someone was hurt badly. Does it really matter why?

You literally cannot be serious. "Does it matter?" OF COURSE IT DOES!!! Why else would "hate crime" be a distinction? Your level of ignorance about this is appalling.

Take the example of the 3 black people who pulled that white man out of the car and beat him.

They called him a Trump supporter. But they were careful not to call him a honky or cracker.

So this makes it violence, not a hate crime.

Did they go after him because he was a Trump supporter or because he was white?

And again what difference does it make, since he was just as severely hurt and traumatized.

The law defines what a hate crime is. Not you. Not me. The law. I dont understand how we are still talking about this.

 

[Matata]

lovedogs, AGBF...in the words of one of the greatest philosophers of the common era, Kenny Rogers...
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run

 

[ruby59]

lovedogs, AGBF...in the words of one of the greatest philosophers of the common era, Kenny Rogers...
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run

Yes, AnnaH, you can try to get along here, but then it is thrown back in your face with all these condescending comments.

Hopefully someone else will come along and explain what I am trying to say to all of you.

 

[ruby59]

Article was posted by Deb because a white man hurt a Muslim woman.

If it was white on white or black on black - in the name of Trump - would she have posted it just the same.

Hate crime or violence - someone was hurt badly. Does it really matter why?

You literally cannot be serious. "Does it matter?" OF COURSE IT DOES!!! Why else would "hate crime" be a distinction? Your level of ignorance about this is appalling.

Take the example of the 3 black people who pulled that white man out of the car and beat him.

They called him a Trump supporter. But they were careful not to call him a honky or cracker.

So this makes it violence, not a hate crime.

Did they go after him because he was a Trump supporter or because he was white?

And again what difference does it make, since he was just as severely hurt and traumatized.

The law defines what a hate crime is. Not you. Not me. The law. I dont understand how we are still talking about this.

Do you just pick and choose what you want to respond to?

Where is my comment that if this is the law, there is something seriously wrong with it.

 

[ruby59]

Article was posted by Deb because a white man hurt a Muslim woman.

If it was white on white or black on black - in the name of Trump - would she have posted it just the same.

Hate crime or violence - someone was hurt badly. Does it really matter why?

You literally cannot be serious. "Does it matter?" OF COURSE IT DOES!!! Why else would "hate crime" be a distinction? Your level of ignorance about this is appalling.

Take the example of the 3 black people who pulled that white man out of the car and beat him.

They called him a Trump supporter. But they were careful not to call him a honky or cracker.

So this makes it violence, not a hate crime.

Did they go after him because he was a Trump supporter or because he was white?

And again what difference does it make, since he was just as severely hurt and traumatized.

The law defines what a hate crime is. Not you. Not me. The law. I dont understand how we are still talking about this.

Trump is making laws? Are you sitting idly by?

Where is the indignity for this one?

 

[ruby59]

Deb, the saddest thing is that for every one of those incidents Trump supporters justify these reports with more of their own as you can see above.

You are right. ruby is not using any logic in what she posted.

ruby-

What the hell does an attack on a Trump supporter have to do with an attack on a Muslim?

One is a hate crime. The other is just an act of political recrimination. Both parties do it. The attacks against Jews in Nazi Germany were not just attacks by the National Socialist Party members against Communist Party members or vice versa. You are a Jew. You know this.

Get a grip, woman!

Deb

Hate crime - read the articles again as to the 3 black men who beat that man. The coward who hit the man with the flag pole had his face covered.

ruby-

There is a difference between a reprehensible crime and a hate crime. In my opinion, it is actually more reprehensible for a father to beat his toddler to death because he won't be quiet, a fairly common occurrence in the United States, than for a teenager to spray paint a swastika on a Jewish temple (your mileage may vary). Nonetheless, the former is not a hate crime and the latter is.

Deb

Label it anyway you want.


And if people want to consider spray painting a swastika (I am Jewish) more reprehensible then a father killing his baby, by labeling the first a hate crime, then there is something seriously wrong with our laws.

No, ruby, they do not want to consider painting the swastika more reprehensible by calling it a hate crime; they want to categorize it by calling it a hate crime.

I have to go. My husband has been calling me for a while now. Would someone else talk to ruby?

Deb

No need to publicly excuse yourself. Next time, just go. People come and go all the time here with no fanfare.

 

[ruby59]

Deb, the saddest thing is that for every one of those incidents Trump supporters justify these reports with more of their own as you can see above.

You are right. ruby is not using any logic in what she posted.

ruby-

What the hell does an attack on a Trump supporter have to do with an attack on a Muslim?

One is a hate crime. The other is just an act of political recrimination. Both parties do it. The attacks against Jews in Nazi Germany were not just attacks by the National Socialist Party members against Communist Party members or vice versa. You are a Jew. You know this.

Get a grip, woman!

Deb

And did you see all the incidents of children attacking each other, probably thanks to that crazy woman in the other "defies words" thread.

ruby-

Children attacking each other is not a hate crime. Other people have defined what a hate crime is for you in this thread, so I do not feel that I need to do so. You are attempting to refute my argument above with this list of yours. What I said above is that an attack on a Trump supporter is not the same as "a hate crime". What does this have to do with a hate crime?

And how do you know it is NOT a hate crime. Children emulate their parents. Some learn to hate at a very young age.

 

[Arcadian]

*reads up above*


Well, anyway .....


I agree, this is terrible to see and just makes me want to hurl. How is it OK to attack a 60 year old woman who isn't doing anything to you. All because she's wearing a headscarf.

and from the mother:

"It's not like him at all," she said. "He's not a violent person. He's very kind."

Robin Rhodes is the president of Nitrofreeze Cryogenic Solutions, a metals company based in Worcester.

Dorothy Rhodes said her son "goes out of his way to hire people of different races and ethnicities."

My eyes rolled so hard they may just come out of my head.....

 

[AnnaH]

lovedogs, AGBF...in the words of one of the greatest philosophers of the common era, Kenny Rogers...
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run

Yes, AnnaH, you can try to get along here, but then it is thrown back in your face with all these condescending comments.

Hopefully someone else will come along and explain what I am trying to say to all of you.

Ruby, did you mean to address me? I've not participated in the hate crime discussion. Sorry if I missed something.

 

[lyra]

Many countries have laws about hate crimes. The US does not have exclusive ownership over this term. It is a term that is universally understood, and is easy for most people to understand.

 

[ruby59]

Many countries have laws about hate crimes. The US does not have exclusive ownership over this term. It is a term that is universally understood, and is easy for most people to understand.

Understand it just fine, thank you.

But many know it is a more enhanced crime and are just going to deny it. So much easier to blame Trump or someone else?

When a person attacks another for no good reason, who knows what is in his heart?

 

[arkieb1]

Here are two dictionary definitions of what "hate crimes" are;

The first which is what you are arguing Deb is - A hate crime (also known as a bias-motivated crime) is a prejudice-motivated crime, which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership (or perceived membership) in a certain social group.

The second would fit with what some of our conservative members are arguing - Hate incidents and hate crime are acts of violence or hostility directed at people because of who they are or who someone thinks they are.

Again the legal definitions of what these are in your country - "Examples of such groups can include and are almost exclusively limited to: sex, ethnicity, disability, language, nationality, physical appearance, religion, gender identity or sexual orientation.[1][2][3] Non-criminal actions that are motivated by these reasons are often called "bias incidents".

Trump's own points of view inspire some people to commit "hate crimes" the point I was making is that whenever the media or indeed people here list articles where these "hate crimes" occur, a conservative or indeed Trump's own party/media machine will counteract that by stating either there were similar or more "hate crimes" under Obama/other past presidents or they will point to incidents where radical lefties perpetrate crimes of hate against someone in their camp....

From an independent point of view, never have you had a president that has been this divisive, and unless we go back to the time of slavery never have you had one that has been so openly candid about legitimising bias towards certain minority groups.

In a time in history where we should be more inclusive not less inclusive making policies to shut your borders, build walls and instill a mock nationalistic, egocentric, phallocentric (essentially a racist white male) agenda and a set of policies which seem to me to be based in or coming from a place of quasi racist protectionism long term not doubt isn't going to serve you well.....