De clawing cats.

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 6/8/2009 7:14:22 PM
Author: cara

Date: 6/8/2009 6:36:45 PM

Author: Gypsy

See for me. Since the cat cannot understand why it is being harmed and because it is so defenseless in the care of it''s guardian it''s like a child. A young child. Just because it''s legal to spank your kid, and your momma did it to you, doesn''t mean you should. At some point, we have to stop doing things because we can, because we''re stronger, because we feel entitled because we are ''granting'' the animal the right to share our lives. And appreciate that its a mutual arrangement. We domesticated them, we have, like a virus, taken over the earth, and pets are our companions. They take care of us too. I cry, my cats (all of them) come running to find out what''s wrong and suddenly I''ve got three of them either sitting on me trying to comfort me, or trying to cheer me up. We have a duty of care not to be negligent in our responsibilites to them. And causing them unwarranted harm merely for our convenience or our favorite recliner is wrong. Even if they are ''just cats.''

Not to pick a fight here

, but I think the current working theory is that cats domesticated themselves to hunt rodents associated with grain stores when people developed agriculture and started living is larger, permanent settings.

They started living where the mice were (in nice human-built structures to boot) and the people saw they hunted the pests and so allowed them shelter and occasionally food and water.

I understand what you''re saying Cara, but as you say in this last sentence (I modified your post ''cause I don''t know how to highlight on a mac

) - cats wouldn''t have become even semi-domesticated if we hadn''t encouraged them. And it wasn''t just food and water - my understanding is that cats were in fact cherished and revered parts of ancient Egyptian life - here is a http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/egypt/religion/cats.html from the University of Minnesota that describes what I''m talking about. Given this extremely welcoming treatment of cats by humans, I think that even though maybe they weren''t ever domesticated entirely, our treatment of them and (I would argue) directly resultant semi-domestication still gives us, as Gypsy says, a responsibility, as it does with dogs and all other domestic animals and livestock.

 

[Gypsy]

Cara, that is a prevalent theory. But we have also genetically bred many of them (persians, hairless) so that they are no longer fit for the wild and have taken early domestication to a new level. Granted there are many feral colonies as cats revert much more quickly than dogs, but they are seen as a problem and euthanized wholesale. So chicken or egg aside. We've made it impractical for them to be anything other than dependant on us... or to be killed in colonies as pests when they aren't dependant on us.

Vegas, nothing happens in a vaccum. It's all (the de-clawing issue included) part of responsible pet ownership which includes spaying/neutering your pets, keeping them indoors unless on a leash or in a controlled outdoor habitat. If you have an outdoor cat, make sure that they are well protected against disease and parasite, and get checked by the vet regularly, and that you live in an area that is reasonably outdoor cat friendly (and does not have diseased feral population infestations). If we could all help control (not kill, just TNR) the feral, wild and stray populations, then shelter overcrowding and mass euthanasia would be greatly reduced-- and maybe someday elimiated. And then if a cat went to a shelter it wouldn't be a death sentence, so if someone was offended because their recliner was trashed, the could safely surrender the cat. AND also there are sanctuaries and no-kills. Lucy is on a list for one here, the list is long (I think they said December is their first opening) and there are breed rescues if you have a particular breed. Kill shelters are not where responsible pet owners surrender their animals except as a last resort. So your anaolgy of "de-claw or die' is an extreme that can be avoided. Responsible pet owners do their research and do their best to find the best alternative to killing or mutilating the animal. Just because an ideal is a long way off, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it.

I still do TNR for ferals when I see them. I rent a trap and at my own expense get them spayed/neutered and tested before I release. Make sure to check with the local animal control to make sure there aren't any reported FIV/FeLV outbreak populations where I release them. I make sure to check with local feral colonies to see if they have room, and donate money to see that the cat is placed there if they do have room. I do foster strays to the extent I can. My animals are spayed/neutered, up to date on vaccines, kept indoors and see a vet regularly.

I try to educate people in my life about issues like this and about responsible pet ownership. And yes, I make mistakes, and it's a constant learning process. And it takes time and recourses. But that doesn't mean that I don't hope every day that others will also do the same. And that eventually the euthanasia rates go down, animal abuse goes down, and responsible people start requiring laws to be put into effect to protect our animals. Effective ones, with penalties and enforcement and consequences.

 

[loriken214]

Coco was declawed in the front when we adopted her. It was done by someone who owned her previously. We don''t know anything about her history, but discovered that she is a special needs cat.

We have a scratching pole for her and she always scratches before she eats. She also loves to find a cardboard box to scratch on.

I''ve also noticed that she likes to bite when we''re playing. I''ve never had a cat do this before and must assume that it has to do with her lack of front claws?

Otherwise, she is an angel....very loving.

I''ve grown up with cats and we NEVER had any of them declawed. I wouldn''t do it!

Lori

 

[CJ2008]

I can''t get into discussions about how cats came about to being domesticated.

All I know is, they feel pain.

We are bigger than they are, and we can exercise control over them.

Anything we can have control over, it is our responsibility to take care of and make sure they don''t suffer.

That goes for all animals...

 

[CJ2008]

Date: 6/8/2009 8:41:38 PM
Author: loriken214
Coco was declawed in the front when we adopted her. It was done by someone who owned her previously. We don''t know anything about her history, but discovered that she is a special needs cat.

We have a scratching pole for her and she always scratches before she eats. She also loves to find a cardboard box to scratch on.

I''ve also noticed that she likes to bite when we''re playing. I''ve never had a cat do this before and must assume that it has to do with her lack of front claws?

Otherwise, she is an angel....very loving.

I''ve grown up with cats and we NEVER had any of them declawed. I wouldn''t do it!

Lori

Not necessarily. Mine has front claws and he likes to bite.

 

[cara]

Oh, I totally agree that we humans have a moral obligation to those cats we take as pets, and especially to those breeds that are more useless in the wild, as we have bred them to be more useless on their own. And there is a weaker obligation to help feral cats or found cats, the same way one might help an injured wild animal on your doorstep. Ok, a little more than your average wild animal because it is just not that hard or obscure to figure how to care for a cat.

Just saying that it might not have been totally a human decision to have the cats come live with us. And while it might not always *look* like the best deal for the cats, to be treated as convenient toys by their human owners or treasured as young kittens and abandoned as fugly grown cats, if you look at it another way cats have thrived with their relationship to humans. No danger of dying out or losing all suitable habitat, as they have looked at the world being reshaped by humans and found a suitable adaptation to the new environment. If only the big cats were so pleasantly taken to habitation near humans, and in a non-dangerous way to us primates.

 

[VegasAngel]

Obviously there are a lot of irresponsible pet owners or we wouldnt have the overpopulation of cats & dogs. Vegas has a huge problem with strays & owner surrenders. A lot of breed rescues here are no longer accepting animals because they do not have the funds or enough foster homes to care for them. Your chances of a no kill shelter accepting your pet is slim to none. This is right off the NVSPCA website "Southern Nevada is in the midst of its worst overpopulation crisis ever. We often receive more than 150 requests daily to take in new animals. We wish we could rescue each one, but our space and resources are limited, despite several recent expansions." My husbands Aunt volunteers & donates quite a bit money to NVSPCA.

A Kill shelter here The Animal Foundation is loaded with nothing but pitbulls which most people do not want. If you browse the Las Vegas craigslist pets section that is mostly what you will see on there well pitbulls & chihuahuas. backyard breeders are the worst & hopefully all of Nevada will have a mandatory spay & neuter law. It is definitely the responsibility of the owner to find their pets a suitable home but it is harder than ever especially now.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

I feel so sad. I never knew that declawing was so common.

You don''t really hear about it here in Australia, i mean i have heard of declawing but i don''t know anyone who has had it done, nor i don''t think any self respecting vet would do it. (i know mine wouldn''t!)

A guy i work with told me about our big big boss (who lives in Kansas), she has 2 cats, they are both declawed and she keeps them on prosac so all they are able to do is lie around all day, and she is proud of it.

I was absolutely mortified, and i plan on telling her that the next time she flies over here.