De clawing cats.

[Kelli]

I think this should be against the law too. A friend of mine de-clawed her cats and I think it''s horrible. She''s also a vegetarian, because she feels bad eating animals. Go figure.

 

[lovegem]

Date: 6/7/2009 8:31:21 PM
Author: honey22
OMG! Do people actually declaw their cats to suit their lifestyle, furniture, preferences?!?! This is torture and should be illegal.

If you want to take an animal into your life, you should be prepared for everything and that includes some scratched furniture (I have lost an entire garden to my two labs and wouldn''t trade them for the world).

Exactly why we have parrots and will never have nice furnitures. They poop here and there. They even manage to drop huge flying-poop on the walls.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Totally agree with all of those who said it is inhumane and brutal, and should be outlawed. You are totally doing the right thing Gypsy - if Lucy went to a home that would declaw her it would haunt you forever.

I really wish there was more I could do to help - I''ve been keeping my ear to the ground, but everyone I know has kitties already

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/7/2009 10:58:41 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
Totally agree with all of those who said it is inhumane and brutal, and should be outlawed. You are totally doing the right thing Gypsy - if Lucy went to a home that would declaw her it would haunt you forever.

I really wish there was more I could do to help - I've been keeping my ear to the ground, but everyone I know has kitties already

I know honey me too. ((HUGS))

She needs a special home. It will come. And she's got us till it does.

She's adapted to grandpa's scooter just fine. Doesn't freak her out anymore. So I'm pretty confident that if i can find the right place for her, she'll be good.

A retired couple looking for a single cat would be ideal. Empty Nesters. You know if I still lived in NJ I would have had her placed six times over-- retirement communites abound out there. And in FL. People LEAVE Cali to retire.

She's in the wrong state. LOL. I'm willing to ship her. Provided that I know the home/owner or the person vouching for the owner. And my best friend is in Austin, and a rescuer herself. Maybe a few people in the Lonestar State keeping an eye out for homes for her would be a good thing. LOL.

John was thinking of going back home to NJ and taking him with her, to place her with a foster family we know there. If the holidays roll around and the family has room to take her, and we haven't found anything... we might take her to NJ with us and see if she has better luck there. We can always bring her back if it doesn't work out. And FMIL loves her. It's just that Noel (FMIL's cat) has Lucy's personality. Noel will share her home with a dog. But no way is she putting up with another female cat (and yes, we blame Hally for that).

 

[hoofbeats95]

My cat is declawed. I had it done when I adopted her. I will be honest and say that I didn''t know what was involved. The cats that I had seen in homes growing up (my mom would never let us have an animal in the house) were always declawed (fronts only). I thought it was the norm. So I had Sophie declawed in front. Would I do it again? No. I honestly didn''t even "think" about what it was doing. I feel horrible for what she went through now. I honestly try not to think about it. She is a perfectly well behaved cat with no behavior problems. I don''t think it affected her as some people are describing. Again I feel terrible. I want to get her a sister or brother so she has a friend. But now I''m afraid of mixing her with a cat that has claws.

I will say that there are terrible things that happen to animals in this world. Declawing is pretty low on that list IMO. There is much worse constant abuse that happens. I figure my cat is happy, healthy and loves life. So I''m not against declawing. I don''t have a stance. I think if someone will give that animal a good home then it''s better than some of the alternatives. Your case is different cause the cat has a good home now. But there are a lot of cats that don''t.

 

[Circe]

I haven''t read the other posts yet, but I feel very strongly about this: declawing is mutilation.

You''re doing exactly the right thing for Lucy by waiting for a good foster parent who cares about the cat. What if, down the line, Lucy is too much for them and they adopt her out? She''s bereft of her fingers for no good reason. Or, worse yet, what if she gets out, and is helpless?

It stinks that she''s unhappy at night (but, you know, she''s a cat - mine whines for the hell of it occasionally, I think), but at the end of the day, if you were to give me the choice between temporary nocturnal imprisonment and losing my fingers down to the first knuckle, I''d go with Door #1 every time.

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 6/8/2009 12:11:12 PM
Author: hoofbeats95
My cat is declawed. I had it done when I adopted her. I will be honest and say that I didn''t know what was involved. The cats that I had seen in homes growing up (my mom would never let us have an animal in the house) were always declawed (fronts only). I thought it was the norm. So I had Sophie declawed in front. Would I do it again? No. I honestly didn''t even ''think'' about what it was doing. I feel horrible for what she went through now. I honestly try not to think about it. She is a perfectly well behaved cat with no behavior problems. I don''t think it affected her as some people are describing. Again I feel terrible. I want to get her a sister or brother so she has a friend. But now I''m afraid of mixing her with a cat that has claws.

I will say that there are terrible things that happen to animals in this world. Declawing is pretty low on that list IMO. There is much worse constant abuse that happens. I figure my cat is happy, healthy and loves life. So I''m not against declawing. I don''t have a stance. I think if someone will give that animal a good home then it''s better than some of the alternatives. Your case is different cause the cat has a good home now. But there are a lot of cats that don''t.

Most cats get through de-clawing perfectly fine without lasting effects or behavioral problems. When cats with claws play they''ll use their claws & you wind up with scratches which is normal cat business. When they are front declawed they use their mouths more when playing & perhaps this is the "bad behavior" or meaness people associate with declawed cats.

My cat is front declawed & by no means is she traumatized or sad. She can climb trees, she gets on the roof of my house, she leaves me mice, birds, lizards by back door. She was a wild kitten that I caught. If confined indoors for long periods of time she will ransack the house & so we let her out when she wants. Normally I do not like cats outside but in her particular case she needs to be allowed outside. Not all cats need to be declawed & it she be a last resort after exhausting other options.

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/8/2009 12:11:12 PM
Author: hoofbeats95
My cat is declawed. I had it done when I adopted her. I will be honest and say that I didn''t know what was involved. The cats that I had seen in homes growing up (my mom would never let us have an animal in the house) were always declawed (fronts only). I thought it was the norm. So I had Sophie declawed in front. Would I do it again? No. I honestly didn''t even ''think'' about what it was doing. I feel horrible for what she went through now. I honestly try not to think about it. She is a perfectly well behaved cat with no behavior problems. I don''t think it affected her as some people are describing. Again I feel terrible. I want to get her a sister or brother so she has a friend. But now I''m afraid of mixing her with a cat that has claws.

I will say that there are terrible things that happen to animals in this world. Declawing is pretty low on that list IMO. There is much worse constant abuse that happens. I figure my cat is happy, healthy and loves life. So I''m not against declawing. I don''t have a stance. I think if someone will give that animal a good home then it''s better than some of the alternatives. Your case is different cause the cat has a good home now. But there are a lot of cats that don''t.

Lola (the girl in my av) was declawed by her previous owners. Ezra, her brother, has all of his claws intact, and it is no problem for Lola. She is quite adept at getting him in a headlock with her front legs and scratching the heck out of his head with her back legs (which have claws). She also will smack him right in the nose, which suprises/hurts him enough to get him to back off. It''s actually really funny to watch them get each other in a headlock and scratch each others heads with their back claws.

The thing that makes declawing different from animal abuse, IMO, is that it''s legal so people think there''s nothing wrong with it. You said that you had no idea what it involved, and that''s the major problem to me. People see it, think it''s normal, and vets will do it so they don''t think it''s anythind bad. It is bad, though, and there are very effective ways to curb the damage to your things.

The most heartbreaking sight for me is Lola on the cardboard scratcher that I got, scratching for dear life and never being able to actually dig claws into it. She scratches and scratches, but the poor baby has no claws to sharpen.

 

[hoofbeats95]

Ignorance is no excuse for sure. It''s only my explanation. I think vets should tell you what you are committing to before agreeing to do the procedure. In my case I requested it via the humane society as they sent her to be fixed and get shots. Then I picked her up from the vet. So I never saw the vet. If someone at the humane society had told me what was really happening I''d have likely backed out of doing it. Especially since she was a kitten essentially and could have been trained from the beginning to not use her claws. Live and learn I guess. There are several mistakes I''ve made with my animals - a cat and a horse. But I''ve learned from them and spread my knowledge to others when I can.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Gypsy, you''re definitely doing the right thing for Lucy. Since she doesn''t have any behavioral problems, and doesn''t have a scratching problem, there no reason to declaw, period. She has a home with you now, so there''s no immediate need to place her, she has time for you to find her the right home.

IMHO, people who haven''t owned a cat before are just scared of the claws. They don''t know how the cat will behave, and are probably picturing the worst case scenario -- cat destroying furniture, and scratching them and their children.

As for my own declawing story, friends of mine adopted an 8 month old kitty, who was given up by his previous owners because he was a scratcher. The shelter had a very hard time adopting him out, and told my friends that they would be OK with declawing him because of his specific behavioral issue. My friends took him home, and realized that the scratching was going to be a problem for them, so they had him declawed. He great little guy, and I''m glad that he found a home, even if it meant losing his claws, because the alternative would have been euthanasia.

I''m certainly not a fan of declawing, but I don''t see the issue in black and white. Sometimes we have to take the lesser of two evils.

 

[Clairitek]

I didn''t declaw Emma until I had her for over a year. She was really destructive and ruined a good bit of expensive furniture and carpeting. She had them removed with laser surgery. Even though I realize its still pretty cruel I would never have subjected her to the older method involving scalpels.

When we got Charlie and he grew to be at least her size he was using his claws on her a lot to "play." Emma became a paranoid, fearful cat. Charlie would hop on her, wrap his arms around her, sink his claws in, and bite. The noises she made were just terrible. He just didn''t know how to play nice. We ended up declawing him, also with laser surgery. We notied a big change in her demeanor when he was no longer so lethal.

I am extremely diligent with keeping them both indoors so there isn''t a chance of them getting into a tussle with other cats.

Now that the playing field is a little more level with Emma and Charlie (and Charlie has passed the 1 year mark and calmed down) Emma is a much happier kitty. She tolerates being with a few feet of him now.

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/8/2009 1:20:12 PM
Author: hoofbeats95
Ignorance is no excuse for sure. It's only my explanation. I think vets should tell you what you are committing to before agreeing to do the procedure. In my case I requested it via the humane society as they sent her to be fixed and get shots. Then I picked her up from the vet. So I never saw the vet. If someone at the humane society had told me what was really happening I'd have likely backed out of doing it. Especially since she was a kitten essentially and could have been trained from the beginning to not use her claws. Live and learn I guess. There are several mistakes I've made with my animals - a cat and a horse. But I've learned from them and spread my knowledge to others when I can.

Honestly, I really think you're doing the only thing that can be done. You made a regrettable mistake, you learned from it, and you're passing that on. I honestly had no idea what it was until I was researching getting a cat. I think the people at the humane society should have explained what it entailed. They were the guardians of the cat, and I do believe it was their responsibility to at least tell you what that would do.

But what I was trying to say originally (before I got sidetracked so badly, lol) was don't be afraid of introducing a non-declawed cat into your household. They'll really be fine. I'm in the middle of introducing a puppy to my cats, and Lola does just fine getting him to back off, lol!

ETA: I was posting at the same time as Claritek. I guess it depends on the personalities of the cats. Ezra's playful, but Lola's the boss. I did do a lot of playing with Ezra teaching him how to play with his claws. Soft touches = lots of attention and praise. Digging claws in for dear life = a loud yelp and no attention for a little bit. He learned how to play nicely very quickly.

 

[elrohwen]

I think no matter what other''s opinions are of declawing, it is obviously totally against your moral code to do it, so you shouldn''t allow her to go into a home where someone will declaw her. I agree with you when you said that you are her guardian and you have to make sure she goes to what you consider a safe home (even if others think you''re being too picky).

You mentioned she is confined to the bedroom? As such a caring cat-mom I assume you''re making an effort to spend lots of individual time with her, and I think that''s more than many cat owners do as it is. If she''s getting the care and attention she needs from you, I think you''re in the right to keep her until you find a place you consider a suitable home for her.

 

[tlh]

My first cat was declawed. I was 9 my parents didn''t know what de-clawing was, and it was the only way I could get one. So the procedure was done, and he was left with nubs. He was so sad. It was like his paws never stopped hurting. he wouldn''t let you touch his feet, and he would hide afterwards, when he was very friendly before. But I loved him dearly, and I was really the only person he liked.
My 2nd cat adopted me. She was an outdoor kitty who''s original owner couldn''t find her a home when he adopted out all her bros and siters, and threw her outside at 4-6 weeks to fend for herself. So fend she did... right into my heart. I ended up gettng her spayed, and moved her with me all over the country. This cat is such a lover, and she''ll just lay on my tummy and let me play with her paws, and retract her claws. She also lets me clip them w/o a fight. I couldn''t even imagine declawing her or any other kitty. In fact when she scratches at things she shouldn''t - I have the dog trained to chase her away. It is quite funny really and gets them both some exercise and play.
I think it is a tough call... but the right one. There are too many times people will adopt an animal just to turn them over in 2-3 years when the family structure changes. Or even think it is okay to let a cat w/o claws outside just to eat the grass... I do not think that declawing is animal cruelty, but it is something I would not do to one of my pets. I did work at a local animal shelter throughout college in a puppymill dominant state, and I saw some real horrific cases of animal cruelty. I think if an animal can be loved and cared for, and is adopted and isn''t just terminated because of lack of room, then declaw the cat. Very few declawed cats got turned over the way other cats with their claws did.

That said... there are a lot of more humane ways to prevent clawing at the furniture. Soft paws are an excellent way... and if adoptable parents are interested... this is a cute way to do so...as you can pick colors etc.
http://www.softpaws.com/?gclid=CPuAxZyb-5oCFQWenAodEkqQHg

 

[Gypsy]

LOL @ Lucy having no behavioural problems. Oh she does, the moody little turd. But scratching furniture, rugs, walls etc. is not one of them. She's a nipper and has a foot fetish. She loves to nibble on your toes. And god help you if you are a toe wiggler like I am.

I have seen cats without major issues who have been declawed. They are usually declawed as kittens at 6 months, while getting neutered, and I think that females react a little better to it than males. I still don't think it should be done, personally.

I think the major issue with declawing is that people see it as preventative. I've heard vets say that they will only do it to kittens. Well, the problem there is unless you have a particularly destructive and untrainable kitten... that's too young to sentence the cat to mutilation. Then if you give the cat enough time to grow into their personality, and you see them being destructive (AND YOU HAVE TRIED TO CURB THE BEHAVIOR with scratching pads of all types, soft paws, manicures)... well, most vets I know won't do it to older cats unless it's between a kill shelter and declawing. And if you get them de-clawed as kittens, well... god, I hope you mean to keep the baby for ever and ever. And never let it out. That catch 22 is why I think it should be illegal.

I think my personal feeling is, if you are adopting an already adult cat. It should not be on your to-do list. It just shouldn't be. I have only ONE cat who scratches stuff and he's VERY particular. He likes high knot count, expensive persian silk and wool rugs, and he only scratches the silk. So we rolled up the carpet. And then he started using his cardboard Scratch Lounge again. The carpet is fine rolled up undre my bed. I like my new contemporary carpet from Crate and Barrel better and the fancy shmantzy silk and wool rug is in storage until I get a room I can keep the cats out of.

It's the "declawing is the owner's choice" thing that bothers me. It's not a choice. It's very much a last resort. And even then... IF you get it done to an adult cat you have to be VERY VERY careful about the after surgery care.

Duncan had one of his canines removed. And now has to have more teeth removed later this year (

) and I noticed some behavioral issues that cropped up after the first surgery, and we worked them with him to ammeliorate them , and then with his eye treatments (he felt hunted cause every time he turned around we were putting drops in his eyes) he's got some lovely habits he's acquired.... and now he's losing 4 more teeth in major surgery (plus I have to get an ultra sound for cancer all over his chest and stomach) so I am anticipating more behavioural/trust issues from him. And that's all from absolutely NECESSARY treatements. I just wouldn't put my cat through anything surgical and scary and bewildering, life altering and painful if it wasn't absolutely needed. It changes them. And it takes a LONG time to re-build trust. And Duncan is an angel. He really is. And he trusts us implicitily. I can't imagine getting a new cat, who doesn't know you or trust you, then doing that to them, and expecting them to love and trust and want to be your companion.

On the plus side, to give a full picture of the issue as I've seen it, declawed cats go quickly in shelters. Saves the new owners the guilt of doing it, and gets them what they want. But, that's only with the ones that don't turn mean or competely human shy. The ones that get adopted are the ones that HATE the owners that did the declaw to them, but can learn with socialization and time to trust humans again, and then can be re-adopted out to a new place. And yes, some of them have the pain forever and will NOT let you touch thier paws. AT ALL. And will bite if you try to.

 

[whitby_2773]

Date: 6/8/2009 1:42:10 PM
Author: Gypsy



On the plus side, to give a full picture of the issue as I''ve seen it, declawed cats go quickly in shelters. Saves the new owners the guilt of doing it, and gets them what they want. But, that''s only with the ones that don''t turn mean or competely human shy. The ones that get adopted are the ones that HATE the owners that did the declaw to them, but can learn with socialization and time to trust humans again, and then can be re-adopted out to a new place. And yes, some of them have the pain forever and will NOT let you touch thier paws. AT ALL. And will bite if you try to.

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 6/8/2009 1:42:10 PM
Author: Gypsy
LOL @ Lucy having no behavioural problems. Oh she does, the moody little turd. But scratching furniture, rugs, walls etc. is not one of them. She''s a nipper and has a foot fetish. She loves to nibble on your toes. And god help you if you are a toe wiggler like I am.

I have seen cats without major issues who have been declawed. They are usually declawed as kittens at 6 months, while getting neutered, and I think that females react a little better to it than males. I still don''t think it should be done, personally.

I think the major issue with declawing is that people see it as preventative. I''ve heard vets say that they will only do it to kittens. Well, the problem there is unless you have a particularly destructive and untrainable kitten... that''s too young to sentence the cat to mutilation. Then if you give the cat enough time to grow into their personality, and you see them being destructive (AND YOU HAVE TRIED TO CURB THE BEHAVIOR with scratching pads of all types, soft paws, manicures)... well, most vets I know won''t do it to older cats unless it''s between a kill shelter and declawing. And if you get them de-clawed as kittens, well... god, I hope you mean to keep the baby for ever and ever. And never let it out. That catch 22 is why I think it should be illegal.

I think my personal feeling is, if you are adopting an already adult cat. It should not be on your to-do list. It just shouldn''t be. I have only ONE cat who scratches stuff and he''s VERY particular. He likes high knot count, expensive persian silk and wool rugs, and he only scratches the silk. So we rolled up the carpet. And then he started using his cardboard Scratch Lounge again. The carpet is fine rolled up undre my bed. I like my new contemporary carpet from Crate and Barrel better and the fancy shmantzy silk and wool rug is in storage until I get a room I can keep the cats out of.

It''s the ''declawing is the owner''s choice'' thing that bothers me. It''s not a choice. It''s very much a last resort. And even then... IF you get it done to an adult cat you have to be VERY VERY careful about the after surgery care.

Duncan had one of his canines removed. And now has to have more teeth removed later this year (

) and I noticed some behavioral issues that cropped up after the first surgery, and we worked them with him to ammeliorate them , and then with his eye treatments (he felt hunted cause every time he turned around we were putting drops in his eyes) he''s got some lovely habits he''s acquired.... and now he''s losing 4 more teeth in major surgery (plus I have to get an ultra sound for cancer all over his chest and stomach) so I am anticipating more behavioural/trust issues from him. And that''s all from absolutely NECESSARY treatements. I just wouldn''t put my cat through anything surgical and scary and bewildering, life altering and painful if it wasn''t absolutely needed. It changes them. And it takes a LONG time to re-build trust. And Duncan is an angel. He really is. And he trusts us implicitily. I can''t imagine getting a new cat, who doesn''t know you or trust you, then doing that to them, and expecting them to love and trust and want to be your companion.

On the plus side, to give a full picture of the issue as I''ve seen it, declawed cats go quickly in shelters. Saves the new owners the guilt of doing it, and gets them what they want. But, that''s only with the ones that don''t turn mean or competely human shy. The ones that get adopted are the ones that HATE the owners that did the declaw to them, but can learn with socialization and time to trust humans again, and then can be re-adopted out to a new place. And yes, some of them have the pain forever and will NOT let you touch thier paws. AT ALL. And will bite if you try to.

Just curious if the owners of the cat themselves would say that the cat changed after being declawed or if that is just a guess. From there I would want to know the age the cat was declawed & also fixed, how many homes the cat had been in & whether it was around all adults & or children & their ages, was the cat exposed to other dogs, cats, animals & if so it''s reaction, was the cat kept strictly indoors or indoors & out etc. etc.

 

[brooklyngirl]

I have a feeling that a lot of the general population doesn''t have a clue about declawing, what it is, and the potential side effects. They are probably just as uninformed about cats, as I can''t imagine the practice would be so widespread if people were educated on the subject.

I know that a lot of shelters will not let cats go to families who are planning to declaw them (save special circumstances), and that''s a great thing!

Gypsy, sorry your kitty is having to undergo medical procedures. It''s heartwrenching seeing animals in pain and discomfort, knowing they don''t understand what''s happening, without a way to make them feel better

 

[VegasAngel]

That doesnt apply to me since I''ve seen the procedure done many, many times. I know exactly what happens how long it takes etc.

 

[brooklyngirl]

I say this as a person who doesn''t think the procedure is necessarily wrong. It has gotten better now that laser surgery can be performed. But that is still only an option, and much more expensive than the traditional method.

I''m sure there are people who are very familiar with the procedure, and still choose to go ahead with it.

However, for those who haven''t really done the research, the name is misleading as to what the procedure actually is. It is invasive surgery, and IMHO often unnecessary. It''s done to prevent damage without taking into account the temperment of the animal in question. If a cat does not have a scratching problem, why put it through unnecessary surgery?

With any pet, scratches and bites will happen, and most of the time they will be accidental on the part of the animal. Not all cats scratch up furniture and people. I''ve been bitten by my dog (unintentional, during play), and have had things destroyed (expensive shoes

) numerous times, and I''m not planning to have his teeth removed. It''s the lack of necessity that bothers me.

If a person is informed, and knows what their animal is in for, then I suppose it''s their choice. But I do take issue who are not informed, and put their animals through unnecessary medical procedures at best, and harmful ones at worst.

VegasAngel, obviously my post doesn''t apply to you.

 

[VegasAngel]

I know.

Every so often this topic comes up & I felt the need to reiterate my .02

 

[Lorelei]

Absolutely not!!! I do not agree with declawing, it is illegal here anyway. Also if they want her declawed, what if the poor little soul has any other * undesirable to them* habits or way of doing things? Then what would they do??? No, I am with you all the way on this Gypsy. My Husband grew up with declawed cats and his feelings are that it is wrong and it is unnecessary mutilation.

 

[doodle]

VegasAngel, no, many of the comments on here don''t apply to you--you''ve done your research and don''t fall into the category of someone uninformed and de-clawing an animal without the necessity. On the other hand, someone showing up at Gypsy''s place going, "Oh, I''d love to adopt this animal and have it de-clawed" is not doing the same thing. They know NOTHING of the temperament of the animal, so it isn''t possible for them to be basing the decision to want to de-claw Lucy on necessity because they''re completely unaware as to whether the necessity exists.

Personally, I think there are a great many alternatives to having a cat de-clawed, and anyone who automatically resorts to de-clawing without having tried other alternatives first is sacrificing their animal''s feet for their own personal convenience. If convenience is that important to a potential pet owner, they probably shouldn''t own a pet--animals are often inconvenient, and if you can''t take that, perhaps that''s a sign that animal ownership isn''t right for you. I''ve had a SILLY amount of cats over the years, and as I mentioned earlier, the only time de-clawing was ever needed for us was when our polydactyl got ingrowns, and even then, she was only partially de-clawed (they removed only the ingrown nails because they were abscessed and had no other option). We put in enough time to train our animals to only claw certain things, they get regular nail grooming, and even if my cat tries to scratch at me when playing, the nails are groomed well enough that they can''t penetrate. I just don''t see the point in putting an animal through all that when it can be so easy to find other ways to get the same result without surgical means. Just my $.02!

 

[Gypsy]

Vegas from personal exsperience with the returns we got. Yes, it was the declaw and nothing else. I know how you feel about this so I am not going to try to convince you. But I knew the cats before and after. And usually they weren't in the homes for more than 2 months after the procedure before they were returned, 4 months at the outside, and as out shelter kept animals until they got adopted I knew some of the cats for over a year, three times a week, before they went out and were butchered. And I saw them come back. And I KNOW it was the declaw. The owners admitted the change occurred as a direct result, unrepentantly and just tossed them back at us. Two of the owners had had to travel LONG distances to get the procedure done because none of the vets in our area would perform the procedure on A) a cat from our shelter and B) an adult. Now maybe there were cats that we never saw returned because they were happily declawed. I don't know that, admitedly. But there is a reason the procedure is outlawed in other sensible countries-- it's something too many people are ignorant about, too quick to do without need, and it inflcts unnecessary harm on the animal.

You've never answered this question for me: What if it were a human child in the foster system? And the parents who adopted it decided that they wanted to put the child through an necessary and painful elective process for their own convenience and nothing else? Would it be okay? Or is it just different because it's a human child? See... for me it's not. It's just not.

 

[VegasAngel]

What kind of procedure are we talking about? Circumcision falls into that catagory for some people.

I dont compare children to animals or people to animals in general though.

 

[CJ2008]

VegasAngel, I think you hit the nail on the head...it''s the PERSPECTIVE that''s different...if you view an animal as just an animal, then it''s different for you - I guess it''s a different way of viewing an animal''s "place" in the world. I respect your perspective, but wish I could change it...

 

[brooklyngirl]

Animals are not people, and perhaps they have their "place," but that doesn't mean that humans should do whatever they want with them. They feel pain, fear, can become confused, depressed, and whole bunch of other things that have to do with emotions. I'm very confident that a declawed cat appreciates that it's missing important parts of its body, just like a human can. I just can't see why that has to happen unnecessarily.

ETA Circumcision is a whole other ballgame, and I'm not sure I want to get into with this thread. But, it is done for a variety of reasons, one of which being religion. Whatever reason it's done for though, it is done because the parents believe it will be beneficial to their child. Declawing is done for the benefit of the owner, not the cat.

 

[Gypsy]

See for me. Since the cat cannot understand why it is being harmed and because it is so defenseless in the care of it''s guardian it''s like a child. A young child. Just because it''s legal to spank your kid, and your momma did it to you, doesn''t mean you should. At some point, we have to stop doing things because we can, because we''re stronger, because we feel entitled because we are ''granting'' the animal the right to share our lives. And appreciate that its a mutual arrangement. We domesticated them, we have, like a virus, taken over the earth, and pets are our companions. They take care of us too. I cry, my cats (all of them) come running to find out what''s wrong and suddenly I''ve got three of them either sitting on me trying to comfort me, or trying to cheer me up. We have a duty of care not to be negligent in our responsibilites to them. And causing them unwarranted harm merely for our convenience or our favorite recliner is wrong. Even if they are ''just cats.''

 

[cara]

Date: 6/8/2009 6:36:45 PM
Author: Gypsy
See for me. Since the cat cannot understand why it is being harmed and because it is so defenseless in the care of it's guardian it's like a child. A young child. Just because it's legal to spank your kid, and your momma did it to you, doesn't mean you should. At some point, we have to stop doing things because we can, because we're stronger, because we feel entitled because we are 'granting' the animal the right to share our lives. And appreciate that its a mutual arrangement. We domesticated them, we have, like a virus, taken over the earth, and pets are our companions. They take care of us too. I cry, my cats (all of them) come running to find out what's wrong and suddenly I've got three of them either sitting on me trying to comfort me, or trying to cheer me up. We have a duty of care not to be negligent in our responsibilites to them. And causing them unwarranted harm merely for our convenience or our favorite recliner is wrong. Even if they are 'just cats.'

Not to pick a fight here

, but I think the current working theory is that cats domesticated themselves to hunt rodents associated with grain stores when people developed agriculture and started living is larger, permanent settings. They started living where the mice were (in nice human-built structures to boot) and the people saw they hunted the pests and so allowed them shelter and occasionally food and water. Kind of a symbiotic interdependent "domestication" rather than totally taking over the life cycle and herd management a la cows and sheep. No hard data to prove this, but the theory does tie nicely into the fact that cats are often more independent-minded than your average domesticated animal.

But stick to your guns here Gypsy. Clearly you feel strongly about this and have some good basis for your reasoning. Even if declawing doesn't *always* lead to a neurotic, wounded cat, the fact that it does sometimes means it should be sparingly used. If Lucy doesn't have a scratching problem, then there's really no need. Here's hoping she finds a good and safe more permanent home soon.

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 6/8/2009 6:28:59 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
Animals are not people, and perhaps they have their ''place,'' but that doesn''t mean that humans should do whatever they want with them. They feel pain, fear, can become confused, depressed, and whole bunch of other things that have to do with emotions. I''m very confident that a declawed cat appreciates that it''s missing important parts of its body, just like a human can. I just can''t see why that has to happen unnecessarily.

ETA Circumcision is a whole other ballgame, and I''m not sure I want to get into with this thread. But, it is done for a variety of reasons, one of which being religion. Whatever reason it''s done for though, it is done because the parents believe it will be beneficial to their child. Declawing is done for the benefit of the owner, not the cat.

Some do it for cosmetic reasons so no, not all parents do it because it it is beneficial or even look into the all reasons it is done. This is why I dont like comparison of animals to people. I do not treat animals like people-they are not.

I 100% respect everybody''s views/feelings on this subject I know it is a sensitive issue. Considering the terrible abuse, neglect & just plain awful things people subject animals to, I don''t see declawing as serious. As I mentioned before I much rather see someone get their cat declawed then say drop it off in the desert or a shelter where it would most likely be euthanized<---I dont know how the person who has that job handles it on a daily basis.