Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the US?!?

[Loves Vintage]

Does everyone else already know this? Is it just me, or have I been living under a rock? I was reading (on a mom forum), a woman from AL was complaining because the teacher threatened to spank her FIVE YEAR OLD????? She was upset because she said only the principal is allowed to spank the students, not the teachers. What?????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

What? I didn't know this. There is no way they'd do this at my kids' school.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I know, that is why I find it extremely, extremely bizarre. Maybe someone with first hand knowleldge of how common this is actually is will chime in. Or maybe some of the teachers know, from when they were in school to become teachers?

 

[purplesparklies]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

Whoa. I had no idea. That is bizarre.

 

[justginger]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I didn't know this was still allowed either. Even growing up in the late 80s/early 90s, it was only the principal who spanked, and it was rarely. Just often enough for us to know that he WOULD if he needed to. I'm not sure it was a bad thing, honestly. Kept a lot of kids in line that nowadays would just be little hellraisers.

 

[lyra]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I grew up with corporal punishment in schools. My brother received his fair share of it in fact. It may sound barbaric today, but back then it was no big deal. If you didn't misbehave terribly, it was never an issue. If you did, you bragged and laughed afterward to show how cool you were. It didn't really deter any misbehaviour. I remember some pretty bad kids in elementary school, disrupting class, running around the room yelling at the teacher. Only the principal could actually administer punishment, with a strap of some sort. Sounds terrible now though. It seems a terribly outdated idea that never worked to begin with. I am surprised that it is still used at all anywhere.

 

[SB621]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I'm a little extreme about this as when I was in Kindergarden I had a teacher that would hit your butt with a ruler in front of everyone when you misbehaved and she was generous with that ruler. But if ANYTHING, even remotely hinting at corporal punishment happend to my children while they were in school then that school would not be prepared for the amount of $hit that I would personal rain down on them.

EDIT: and no i was not aware this was still used. I personally would never let my kids go to school anywhere where this was acceptable. I would home school if necessary.

 

[justginger]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I grew up with corporal punishment in schools. My brother received his fair share of it in fact. It may sound barbaric today, but back then it was no big deal. If you didn't misbehave terribly, it was never an issue. If you did, you bragged and laughed afterward to show how cool you were. It didn't really deter any misbehaviour. I remember some pretty bad kids in elementary school, disrupting class, running around the room yelling at the teacher. Only the principal could actually administer punishment, with a strap of some sort. Sounds terrible now though. It seems a terribly outdated idea that never worked to begin with. I am surprised that it is still used at all anywhere.

It's interesting how perceptions of spanking differ. A few classmates and I spoke about it when I was last home and were comparing notes on how much it kept us in line. Most of us were already good kids, but there were 2-3 who would have been far more mischievous if the threat of the paddle wasn't hanging over their heads. I guess it all boils down to the kid themselves and how much they valued sitting comfortably for the rest of the day (and perhaps the next day as well). I feel like teachers/principals have little to no real ability left to punish children, with parents far more likely to defend their children than they are to team up with the teacher to discipline their children.

 

[Skippy123]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I have heard about it. I wonder which states it happens in? eta: okay, so it looks like middle America and the Southern state, I guess that doesn't surprise me.

 

[SB621]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I grew up with corporal punishment in schools. My brother received his fair share of it in fact. It may sound barbaric today, but back then it was no big deal. If you didn't misbehave terribly, it was never an issue. If you did, you bragged and laughed afterward to show how cool you were. It didn't really deter any misbehaviour. I remember some pretty bad kids in elementary school, disrupting class, running around the room yelling at the teacher. Only the principal could actually administer punishment, with a strap of some sort. Sounds terrible now though. It seems a terribly outdated idea that never worked to begin with. I am surprised that it is still used at all anywhere.

It's interesting how perceptions of spanking differ. A few classmates and I spoke about it when I was last home and were comparing notes on how much it kept us in line. Most of us were already good kids, but there were 2-3 who would have been far more mischievous if the threat of the paddle wasn't hanging over their heads. I guess it all boils down to the kid themselves and how much they valued sitting comfortably for the rest of the day (and perhaps the next day as well). I feel like teachers/principals have little to no real ability left to punish children, with parents far more likely to defend their children than they are to team up with the teacher to discipline their children.

I see what you are saying justginger however, NO ONE has the right to hit my child (nor do I believe any child). It shouldn't be the teacher's resposbility to punish a child. I send my kids to school to learn and further their education. If they are a problem then the teacher needs to go to me, the parent, to discuss. Strike my child and I stand by my previous comments. However, my kid will still be in trouble with me in the first place for misbehaving. I'm a big fan of taking responsbility for your actions.

 

[ponder]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I am in Texas, and the last I had heard was that corporal punishment was still utilized under very limited circumstances. To my knowledge, only the principal could spank, and that parental permission must be obtained first. I messaged a couple teacher friends to see if that still holds true. That being said, I have had quite a few friends have in school behavioral problems with their kids, a no one has ever mentioned spanking.

 

[yssie]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I do feel pretty strongly that only parents should be allowed to administer corporal punishment, but... I guess I can sorta see the other side too - so much of it is cultural, like Ginger said. Your expectations define what a given type of punishment means to you, and whether something is an acceptable practice or not, and if in the culture that sets those expecations "behave in school or your backside will regret it" is standard...


My parents sent me away (we were in Auckland at the time) to live with family in India for a little over half a year when I was 8. Apparently sending your kids to live with extended family for long periods of time is something of a cultural norm... anyway, I didn't finish my homework one night and had to line up with the other truants and get rapped on the hands with a ruler.

It didn't do more than bruise a bit but oh, the indignity! I was livid. But of course that was standard practice there/then so no-one was the least bit perturbed - just told me to quit fussing and get it all done next time.


It was actually an enlightening experience for me. I'd be lying if I said it was a positive experience - I was miserable and spent the entire time begging my parents to take me home - but of course two decades on I understand a lot more of the *why* than I did back then. Like when kids were punished for not finishing their lunches - well, when you're in a community where a lot of people don't get a meal a day, wasting food because you're not hungry really is a terrible thing. Forcing kids to eat unfinished lunches at the end of the day - food that's gone off from sitting unrefrigerated for 10+ hours in 40deg weather - is NOT the answer, but do it once and you'll never, ever leave food behind again. And when there are so few university spots for so many people, and birthright issues and caste politics whittle one's options further, the academic structure and rigour that results in starting 8yos on pre-algebra makes a lot more sense... and I definitely always finished my homework after that!

 

[Puppmom]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I had no idea this was still legal anywhere in the US. My personal opinion on spanking is it's such a lazy form of discipline. If the only way you can get your kid to listen to you is through spanking, then you've got bigger issues.

 

[Laila619]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

Crazy!

I grew up in the '80s and I do NOT remember any spanking in schools back then. I know it didn't happen in my school.

 

[lyra]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I'm 50, so my elementary school years were the 60's and 70's. In Canadian schools, the strap was used on the hands. I was never afraid of it because I never misbehaved. Really, I can't remember for sure any girls getting the strap, but it was soooo long ago.

When my grandmother was in elementary school, in the 1915's era, the teacher hit her knuckles with a ruler every time she tried to write, because she was lefthanded. So she learned to be ambidextrous. That was truly sad, as of course it's nothing to do with discipline and all to do with perception and prejudice of sorts.

When my kids went to school in the 90's, there was absolutely no corporal punishment.

 

[maccers]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

My mom was a teacher in the 60s, she was told by the principal that she HAD to slap the hand of one of her students using a ruler. My mom did it and then she promptly went to the bathroom and cried. My mom had just started teaching and was just 19 years old.

Punishment in schools have changed a lot. Another mom story, when mom was a junior high school student, she went to see Elvis Presley. The day after the concert, the nun-teacher asked if any of the students had gone to see him. My mom raised her hand and the nun took away her honour roll status of the rest of the year! Ridiculous, lol!

 

[ame]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

It was still around when I was in grade school and I am in my mid thirties. I can recall being whapped in the butt by at least one nun.

 

[Skippy123]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

Oh wait a second, in 1st grade a Teacher's Aide use to pinch me when she was upset with me. It really hurt and confused me because she just did it and never said you are doing X so you are being pinched! Anyway, my parents talked to her about it and I wasn't pinched again. She was probably in her 60's or 70's.

I was actually spanked a few times as a kid and it was just a swat so not a big deal to me (not mentally scared) but there was a girl down the street, you *knew* when she was getting belted. Her dad would pull down her pants and belt her. HORRIBLE HORRIBLE I felt Ill for her

 

[ponder]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

General consensus among my friends is that their has been a significant decrease in the number of school districts that have corporal punishment as an official policy within the last 5 years, not that it was really being used before they discontinued the policy. Only one friend replied that her school district (rural area) still has it as a current policy, but is not aware of it ever being used.

 

[packrat]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

Do the schools actually practice it? It was probably legal back in the day when I was in school (started Kindergarten '79/'80) but I don't recall anyone ever being spanked, even if the threat was implied or hanging over our heads...I think I just kind of had the idea that adults were authority figures and acting as my parents when mom and dad weren't around so I better behave. We were spanked as kids..flyswatters on the butt stiiiiiing boy, lemme tell ya.

But I don't remember kids misbehaving in class like what I've seen now...I remember it as more "if your kid can't behave properly while here, then your kid just isn't going to be allowed here" end of story, and the parents had to deal w/it. It's not like that now. London was just telling me yesterday about a girl that screams and spends most of the day in the principal's office. I asked why, and she said "I don't know. She just doesn't know how to not be naughty. The principal just says well, if you can't stop then we have to call the police" That's how it's handled now. If the parents can't/won't take care of it, they call the cops. This girl is in 4th grade.

We have a couple kids in the preschool where I work, one in particular that OMG seriously...if ever there was a child that needs a good smack on the rear, that's one--and he's FOUR. Several of the kids, if they were MY kids, would've been popped in the mouth, no "you have to sit on the bench for five minutes" crap. Now the teachers need to have special four-day training on how to handle/hold kids, there's no Principal storming in and cupping his hand around the back of your neck and steering you to his office to sit you down and make you explain why you're acting the way you are, and the kids don't get the sad face/head shaking "I'm so disappointed" talk that makes you feel about an inch tall.

A third grader here is being bullied on the bus and now we have video cameras. In my day, the bus driver would call the school on the CB and the principal or superintendant would be waiting for you and you'd either sit in the front seat or get kicked off the bus for a certain length of time and it was up to the parents to figure out how to get you to school-and we only bussed country kids, not kids that live 4 blocks from school like nowadays, and if it kept up then you were out of school. So the way they handle it now is they have to call random parents in to review the tape, the school board has to be in on it, then they have to have special meetings to review it, and then decide on a punishment, but they can't start w/kicking the little turd off the bus b/c there would be an uproar (even tho he choked the crap out of the other kid and punched him repeatedly in the stomach, and that wasn't the only time-it's December and it's still continuing and has been all year w/many many reports but for some weird reason none of the "punishments" have worked). And now the police have to get involved. It's ridiculous, but the school's can only do "so much". Wouldn't want to hurt lil Johnny's poor widdle feewings by expecting him to not be naughty.

WTH? where did all that blabbering come from? Um..back on topic, kids shouldn't be spanked in school, it's up to the parents, but there should be some sort of consequence in school for things.

 

[Skippy123]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

Do the schools actually practice it? It was probably legal back in the day when I was in school (started Kindergarten '79/'80) but I don't recall anyone ever being spanked, even if the threat was implied or hanging over our heads...I think I just kind of had the idea that adults were authority figures and acting as my parents when mom and dad weren't around so I better behave. We were spanked as kids..flyswatters on the butt stiiiiiing boy, lemme tell ya.

But I don't remember kids misbehaving in class like what I've seen now...I remember it as more "if your kid can't behave properly while here, then your kid just isn't going to be allowed here" end of story, and the parents had to deal w/it. It's not like that now. London was just telling me yesterday about a girl that screams and spends most of the day in the principal's office. I asked why, and she said "I don't know. She just doesn't know how to not be naughty. The principal just says well, if you can't stop then we have to call the police" That's how it's handled now. If the parents can't/won't take care of it, they call the cops. This girl is in 4th grade.

We have a couple kids in the preschool where I work, one in particular that OMG seriously...if ever there was a child that needs a good smack on the rear, that's one--and he's FOUR. Several of the kids, if they were MY kids, would've been popped in the mouth, no "you have to sit on the bench for five minutes" crap. Now the teachers need to have special four-day training on how to handle/hold kids, there's no Principal storming in and cupping his hand around the back of your neck and steering you to his office to sit you down and make you explain why you're acting the way you are, and the kids don't get the sad face/head shaking "I'm so disappointed" talk that makes you feel about an inch tall.

A third grader here is being bullied on the bus and now we have video cameras. In my day, the bus driver would call the school on the CB and the principal or superintendant would be waiting for you and you'd either sit in the front seat or get kicked off the bus for a certain length of time and it was up to the parents to figure out how to get you to school-and we only bussed country kids, not kids that live 4 blocks from school like nowadays, and if it kept up then you were out of school. So the way they handle it now is they have to call random parents in to review the tape, the school board has to be in on it, then they have to have special meetings to review it, and then decide on a punishment, but they can't start w/kicking the little turd off the bus b/c there would be an uproar (even tho he choked the crap out of the other kid and punched him repeatedly in the stomach, and that wasn't the only time-it's December and it's still continuing and has been all year w/many many reports but for some weird reason none of the "punishments" have worked). And now the police have to get involved. It's ridiculous, but the school's can only do "so much". Wouldn't want to hurt lil Johnny's poor widdle feewings by expecting him to not be naughty.

WTH? where did all that blabbering come from? Um..back on topic, kids shouldn't be spanked in school, it's up to the parents, but there should be some sort of consequence in school for things.

Missi, you made me laugh, about a good smack in the rear! I have seen kids waaaay more disrespectful now than when I was a kid. I don't spank my kids but for sure they need to be respectful when they are older! It is shocking how kids talk to adult, or was it always this way?? I don't recall seeing that or remembering that behavior!

 

[packrat]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

bwahahaha I just came to edit out that whole beginning part since it was so rambly.

My parents weren't shy about the "straighten up and fly right" threats, the most used was "I'll beat you to within an inch of your life". The look on their faces was basically horrifying and all we needed was just to *think* that we might upset our parents. Now..sometimes we pushed it, like when we'd look confused and hold our thumb/forefinger out "Is this an inch? is that how far? How much of me will be left?" Or we'd get down on the ground and hold our hand up above the floor.."down to here? is this where you'll beat me?"

But, there are some parents that just don't give a crap what their kids do, and that's where problems start in school-school's can't be the parents, and it sucks that the staff and rest of the students end up being subjected to those students.

I don't remember kids talking to adults the way they do now, back in the day.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

bwahahaha I just came to edit out that whole beginning part since it was so rambly.

My parents weren't shy about the "straighten up and fly right" threats, the most used was "I'll beat you to within an inch of your life". The look on their faces was basically horrifying and all we needed was just to *think* that we might upset our parents. Now..sometimes we pushed it, like when we'd look confused and hold our thumb/forefinger out "Is this an inch? is that how far? How much of me will be left?" Or we'd get down on the ground and hold our hand up above the floor.."down to here? is this where you'll beat me?"

But, there are some parents that just don't give a crap what their kids do, and that's where problems start in school-school's can't be the parents, and it sucks that the staff and rest of the students end up being subjected to those students.

I don't remember kids talking to adults the way they do now, back in the day.

My mother's personal variation was (delivered with a deadly serious glare), "I'll beat you black and blue!" Of course she never did, but I'm sure many out there, overhearing that, would be completely unable to distinguish hyperbole and exaggeration for effect.

As for the schools, well, they are probably calling the cops because when they do try to discipline A) the teachers as often as not have zero backup from admin that cowers in its office, and B) they get sued, abused and sued some more. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the schools are a microcosm of the larger world. If you don't like what's going on in them, take a long hard look at the community you live in and that they spring from. Most aren't willing to look and actually see how parental influence (which is HUGE) has negatively impacted the schools' mission of teaching versus being surrogate parent/counselor/disciplinarian/social worker/doctor.

To add to the answers above, the state may allow corporal punishment, but it seems to be district driven. I don't know of any metropolitan district that uses it here, and would agree that corporal punishment is used, it is mostly in the rural areas or in religious schools. Even in some of the states that don't allow it in state-funded schools, private schools are often exempt.

 

[sonnyjane]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I went to a private high school and there was definitely some stuff happening there that wouldn't happen in public schools.

If we were late to a class, we were given a "nose job" by the teacher - we had to put our head down and place our nose on the table, then the teacher would smack the back our head so our face was slammed down onto the table, therefore really cracking our noses into the wood. I only ever had to have one, but it made my eyes water, that's for sure. Also, if you were misbehaving in class, it wouldn't be uncommon for a teacher to come over, grab you, shake you, swear in your face, etc.

I would never expect anything like that to be allowed in public schools, and I agree with the previous posters that have said that only parents should be able to administer that type of punishment.

 

[chrono]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

Yssie,
Although I am not Indian, culturally, I experience the same things you did growing up with respect to punishment at school and at home. Food is limited so you better appreciate what you have and finish it. Entry into secondary school and college is not a given (very limited placement and choice of subject) so the child had darned well better study hard. It is as though the entire community is looking out for the welfare of the child. So even if the parents aren't present, the child is less likely to misbehave, knowing that the shopkeeper, schoolteacher, bus driver, whoeverelse will keep them in line.

I know in the Southern states, the students are sent to the prinicipal's office to be punished physically. I think many parents are either too busy, don't care or don't know how to disclipine their child, making the tasks of the teachers to focus solely on teaching more challenging.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

I grew up with corporal punishment in schools. My brother received his fair share of it in fact. It may sound barbaric today, but back then it was no big deal. If you didn't misbehave terribly, it was never an issue. If you did, you bragged and laughed afterward to show how cool you were. It didn't really deter any misbehaviour. I remember some pretty bad kids in elementary school, disrupting class, running around the room yelling at the teacher. Only the principal could actually administer punishment, with a strap of some sort. Sounds terrible now though. It seems a terribly outdated idea that never worked to begin with. I am surprised that it is still used at all anywhere.

It's interesting how perceptions of spanking differ. A few classmates and I spoke about it when I was last home and were comparing notes on how much it kept us in line. Most of us were already good kids, but there were 2-3 who would have been far more mischievous if the threat of the paddle wasn't hanging over their heads. I guess it all boils down to the kid themselves and how much they valued sitting comfortably for the rest of the day (and perhaps the next day as well). I feel like teachers/principals have little to no real ability left to punish children, with parents far more likely to defend their children than they are to team up with the teacher to discipline their children.

This statement is VERY MUCH TRUE! I know for a fact because one teacher even told me that often the parents are not called if there is a problem because the parents refuse to accept their child would be a bully. What is worse is once MY son and two friends were the ones causing a problem and it took several months before the teacher sat us parents down and told us bluntly. I asked why she didn't say exactly the situation before then and she said it was because parents always get defensive. Luckily, I am friends w/the parents of one of the other boys and we worked it all out!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

Yssie,
Although I am not Indian, culturally, I experience the same things you did growing up with respect to punishment at school and at home. Food is limited so you better appreciate what you have and finish it. Entry into secondary school and college is not a given (very limited placement and choice of subject) so the child had darned well better study hard. It is as though the entire community is looking out for the welfare of the child. So even if the parents aren't present, the child is less likely to misbehave, knowing that the shopkeeper, schoolteacher, bus driver, whoeverelse will keep them in line.

I know in the Southern states, the students are sent to the prinicipal's office to be punished physically. I think many parents are either too busy, don't care or don't know how to disclipine their child, making the tasks of the teachers to focus solely on teaching more challenging.

Parents aren't even motivated to discipline their kids these days. I am against spanking, but there are plenty of other ways to discipline a child but it involves WORK. It means a parent has to actively DO SOMETHING like take away the kids XBox or whatever to punish them, but then that means a parent would actually have to WATCH their kid, but they are too lazy to do that.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

Missi, you made me laugh, about a good smack in the rear! I have seen kids waaaay more disrespectful now than when I was a kid. I don't spank my kids but for sure they need to be respectful when they are older! It is shocking how kids talk to adult, or was it always this way?? I don't recall seeing that or remembering that behavior!

Skippy - I think it is because kids are spoiled with gadgets and pretty much get whatever they want these days and that has led to them being overconfident. Also, a lot of TV shows have kids who run the household and tell their parents what to do or talk down to their parents and this has taught kids that they have all say and authority. Kids are RUDE these days and I am not a strict parent, but when it comes to who my kids have come over, I am. One kid says the most disprectful things to me and my son and this kid have been friends for years. Finally, I told my son, the kid cannot come over ever again. My son was upset at first but now, finally, has actively looked for other kids who respect elders!

 

[ksinger]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

Yssie,
Although I am not Indian, culturally, I experience the same things you did growing up with respect to punishment at school and at home. Food is limited so you better appreciate what you have and finish it. Entry into secondary school and college is not a given (very limited placement and choice of subject) so the child had darned well better study hard. It is as though the entire community is looking out for the welfare of the child. So even if the parents aren't present, the child is less likely to misbehave, knowing that the shopkeeper, schoolteacher, bus driver, whoeverelse will keep them in line.

I know in the Southern states, the students are sent to the prinicipal's office to be punished physically. I think many parents are either too busy, don't care or don't know how to disclipine their child, making the tasks of the teachers to focus solely on teaching more challenging.

Parents aren't even motivated to discipline their kids these days. I am against spanking, but there are plenty of other ways to discipline a child but it involves WORK. It means a parent has to actively DO SOMETHING like take away the kids XBox or whatever to punish them, but then that means a parent would actually have to WATCH their kid, but they are too lazy to do that.

And I can't tell you how many times my husband calls a parent of a child who is misbehaving, not doing the work, or truant, and the parent will gush and say, "Oh THANK YOU so MUCH!! I'll talk to him/her about that. I'll fix it! Send me the work and I'll make him do it!" And NOTHING.EVER.HAPPENS. Excuses and avoidance start early apparently. I also loved the one where the mother of the kid (falling asleep in class and not doing the work), was like, "Well....I just can't get him to put that phone away...he stays up all night with it...."(helpless helpless tone). And we wonder why the kids are stupid. Fruit not falling too far from the tree is major reason, not the quality of schooling.

The quality of the kids is inextricably tied to the quality of the parents. However, parents don't like being told or even having it implied, that THEY are the reason their child is failing, and come back snarling more often than not, so when the public schools have been stripped of almost all effective disciplinary measures by a culture that is increasingly in denial about...many things....we as a society will put our collective blinders on, and continue to blame "the schools" which consists of ONLY the teachers (the group least included in policy) - never the administration, and never the legislatures.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Corporal Punishment is still legal in some part of the U

And I can't tell you how many times my husband calls a parent of a child who is misbehaving, not doing the work, or truant, and the parent will gush and say, "Oh THANK YOU so MUCH!! I'll talk to him/her about that. I'll fix it! Send me the work and I'll make him do it!" And NOTHING.EVER.HAPPENS. Excuses and avoidance start early apparently. I also loved the one where the mother of the kid (falling asleep in class and not doing the work), was like, "Well....I just can't get him to put that phone away...he stays up all night with it...."(helpless helpless tone). And we wonder why the kids are stupid. Fruit not falling too far from the tree is major reason, not the quality of schooling.

.

You have no idea how much this problem pisses me off...or maybe you do! We tried to escape wild, crazy, non-abiding classmates, by putting my son in an independent learning program (which required ALL students to take numerous tests to qualify for) and it has backfired because even though the kids in that class tested higher than grade level and have "gifted" qualities, they still are little kids who act like monsters. It's ruined my son's year. He tells me that he is always doing the work for his entire group while the rest of the kids goof off. I feel so bad for him. The teacher even told the kids that they're dumping all the work on my son (who takes school a little TOO seriously), but the kids don't care! I don't even know what to do. GRRRR!!!!