capital punishment

[Dancing Fire]

what about those prisoners who sues the state for serving cold meals? wasting taxpayer's money geez,give me a break...you are there to serve time,not on vacation!!

 

[kenny]

Do prisoners have a right to certain foods, like vegan or Kosher?

 

[waterlilly]

I find it really strange when people make the argument that life in prison is "far worse" than being sentenced to death. And in the same breath say the death penalty is wrong, killing a person for killing a person is morally wrong.

So - killing a person is wrong, but doing something "far worse" to them is somehow morally acceptable? Huh?

Is there anyone out there that can say if someone raped and tortured and murdered your child, you wouldn't advocate the death penalty?

Just to be clear, if someone ever does that to me - not only destroying my life but the lives of my family members who love me - please seek the death penalty for them.

I strongly believe that if capital punishment were more common and clearly defined according to what crimes result in it, it absolutely would deter crime.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

I find it really strange when people make the argument that life in prison is "far worse" than being sentenced to death. And in the same breath say the death penalty is wrong, killing a person for killing a person is morally wrong.

So - killing a person is wrong, but doing something "far worse" to them is somehow morally acceptable? Huh?

Is there anyone out there that can say if someone raped and tortured and murdered your child, you wouldn't advocate the death penalty?

Just to be clear, if someone ever does that to me - not only destroying my life but the lives of my family members who love me - please seek the death penalty for them.

I strongly believe that if capital punishment were more common and clearly defined according to what crimes result in it, it absolutely would deter crime.

Waterlilly, without getting into religion, let me just say this: I believe that killing is wrong. I do not believe that sentencing someone to life in prison is wrong. I believe there have to be appropriate consequences for terrible crimes, of course. Since killing is wrong (in my opinion), that leaves one option: life in prison without parole.

And I can't say for certain how I would feel since (thankfully) I've never been in that situation, but I honestly believe that I still would not advocate the death penalty if someone raped/tortured/murdered my child.

 

[waterlilly]

And what if I knew FOR A FACT that Jeffrey Dahmer murdered all those people? Putting him to death won’t deter other psychos like him or make up for all the pain he’s inflicted. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. We don’t rape rapists and don’t beat up batterers. I hope one day we can, as a society, decide to move past vengence as a form of justice.

Putting him to death will ensure he never breaks out of prison and causes anyone harm again. It's not about vengence, it's about ridding society of people who will brutally murder others without thinking twice if given the chance. These people cannot be rehabilitated. Read any book by a behavioral psychologist on sex crimes/murders.

Also, for people who are adamantly opposed to the death penalty, I would like to ask: if G*d forbid, some sick psychopath laid a hand on their own child/sister/mother, would they still be opposed? How would they feel if the sociopath broke out of jail and killed again?

Imprisoning Dahmer for life would ensure that he wouldn't harm anyone again. The possibility of him, or anyone else, breaking out of prison and killing again is not a reason for the death penalty.

I have degrees in criminology and psychology so I've read plenty about sex crimes and murders. I get that people like Dahmer probably cannot be rehabilitated. But the inability to rehabilitate is also not a reason for the death penalty.

And to answer your question, yes, I would STILL be opposed to the death penalty even if my loved one was a victim. I would be devestated but taking that person's life won't change anything. Relief of anger, pain or grief is not a reason for the death penalty.

Agreed that relief of anger, pain or grief is not a reason for the death penalty. But ridding the world of sick and violent people that aren't capable of living in it sure is.

If you can not function in society without hurting people, then you shouldn't be put in a box, you should be extinguished.

If a dog viscously attacks and kills a child - has been proven to be a true hunter of children, thirsts for their blood, do you think its OK for the owners to keep the dog as long as they say they will never allow it out of the house again?

No, the dog is put down.

Don't give me the argument that "it's a dog, we're talking about people here" because that only reinforces my point further. People are able to make conscious choices, they know right from wrong - they are human, they know hunting and killing a child is wrong - and yet there are some monsters out there that CHOOSE to do it.

Why on earth should we keep a thing like that alive?

 

[packrat]

I've started about 20 different replies throughout the course of this thread and can never bring myself to submit any of them.

Suffice it to say, humans freak out *more* about a wild animal acting on instinct towards a person, than about a human purposely and knowingly committing the most vile, hateful, atrocious things you could ever imagine inflicted upon another human being. Someone swimming in the ocean gets bit, even killed by a shark and people are screaming bloody murder about the beasts in the sea ravaging humans, or someone out hiking in the woods startles a mother bear w/cubs and gets attacked, even killed, and a mounted posse is out hunting it down w/in hours b/c if it's done it once, it will do it again, even tho it's acting out of *instinct* and not a total lack of disregard to human life. Animals don't have BTK or Bundy or the various other wastes of life we could talk about that do unspeakable things to kids (Baby P springs to mind and will haunt me until I die). People that sell babies and kids to sex freaks..what kind of a sentence are they looking at if they're caught? Do they care? Doubtful. People like that don't have a conscious.

Bring me the ball peen hammer and I'll play whack a mole. We're too much of a live and let live, don't hurt anybody's feelings, it's none of my business what goes on behind closed doors society. I bet the families of victims and the victims (the ones that LIVE of course) could give a rat's behind about global warming and second hand smoke and how the neighbor's Fantasy Football thing is turning out. They're probably hoping and praying something like what they experienced doesn't happen to someone else. We put up a token screech when something bad happens, and then go about our business. Shrug and say well, it's been going on for years and years, nothing will ever change it, so...

We *could* try, but yet, we *can't*. Far as I'm concerned, the second you commit disgusting crimes (I'm not talking robbing a convenience store of the beer or smoking a cig under 1 you forfeit your rights. And yes, sometimes innocent people are found guilty and put to death-but I'm betting it's FAR LESS than the amount of innocent people/kids who are just *found* and raped, tortured, abused, killed.

 

[Laila619]

I've started about 20 different replies throughout the course of this thread and can never bring myself to submit any of them.

Suffice it to say, humans freak out *more* about a wild animal acting on instinct towards a person, than about a human purposely and knowingly committing the most vile, hateful, atrocious things you could ever imagine inflicted upon another human being. Someone swimming in the ocean gets bit, even killed by a shark and people are screaming bloody murder about the beasts in the sea ravaging humans, or someone out hiking in the woods startles a mother bear w/cubs and gets attacked, even killed, and a mounted posse is out hunting it down w/in hours b/c if it's done it once, it will do it again, even tho it's acting out of *instinct* and not a total lack of disregard to human life. Animals don't have BTK or Bundy or the various other wastes of life we could talk about that do unspeakable things to kids (Baby P springs to mind and will haunt me until I die). People that sell babies and kids to sex freaks..what kind of a sentence are they looking at if they're caught? Do they care? Doubtful. People like that don't have a conscious.

Bring me the ball peen hammer and I'll play whack a mole. We're too much of a live and let live, don't hurt anybody's feelings, it's none of my business what goes on behind closed doors society. I bet the families of victims and the victims (the ones that LIVE of course) could give a rat's behind about global warming and second hand smoke and how the neighbor's Fantasy Football thing is turning out. They're probably hoping and praying something like what they experienced doesn't happen to someone else. We put up a token screech when something bad happens, and then go about our business. Shrug and say well, it's been going on for years and years, nothing will ever change it, so...

We *could* try, but yet, we *can't*. Far as I'm concerned, the second you commit disgusting crimes (I'm not talking robbing a convenience store of the beer or smoking a cig under 1 you forfeit your rights. And yes, sometimes innocent people are found guilty and put to death-but I'm betting it's FAR LESS than the amount of innocent people/kids who are just *found* and raped, tortured, abused, killed.

Excellent post Packrat!

Here's a good example: people were all up in arms about Michael Vick fighting pit bulls (I know I was) and were practically calling for a public stoning. I think animals are given more care and concern for their safety and welfare than humans--because these same people aren't calling for the public stoning of a vicious, cold-blooded child rapist/killer? Something is way wrong here.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

I've started about 20 different replies throughout the course of this thread and can never bring myself to submit any of them.

Suffice it to say, humans freak out *more* about a wild animal acting on instinct towards a person, than about a human purposely and knowingly committing the most vile, hateful, atrocious things you could ever imagine inflicted upon another human being. Someone swimming in the ocean gets bit, even killed by a shark and people are screaming bloody murder about the beasts in the sea ravaging humans, or someone out hiking in the woods startles a mother bear w/cubs and gets attacked, even killed, and a mounted posse is out hunting it down w/in hours b/c if it's done it once, it will do it again, even tho it's acting out of *instinct* and not a total lack of disregard to human life. Animals don't have BTK or Bundy or the various other wastes of life we could talk about that do unspeakable things to kids (Baby P springs to mind and will haunt me until I die). People that sell babies and kids to sex freaks..what kind of a sentence are they looking at if they're caught? Do they care? Doubtful. People like that don't have a conscious.

Bring me the ball peen hammer and I'll play whack a mole. We're too much of a live and let live, don't hurt anybody's feelings, it's none of my business what goes on behind closed doors society. I bet the families of victims and the victims (the ones that LIVE of course) could give a rat's behind about global warming and second hand smoke and how the neighbor's Fantasy Football thing is turning out. They're probably hoping and praying something like what they experienced doesn't happen to someone else. We put up a token screech when something bad happens, and then go about our business. Shrug and say well, it's been going on for years and years, nothing will ever change it, so...

We *could* try, but yet, we *can't*. Far as I'm concerned, the second you commit disgusting crimes (I'm not talking robbing a convenience store of the beer or smoking a cig under 1 you forfeit your rights. And yes, sometimes innocent people are found guilty and put to death-but I'm betting it's FAR LESS than the amount of innocent people/kids who are just *found* and raped, tortured, abused, killed.

Excellent post Packrat!

Here's a good example: people were all up in arms about Michael Vick fighting pit bulls (I know I was) and were practically calling for a public stoning. I think animals are given more care and concern for their safety and welfare than humans--because these same people aren't calling for the public stoning of a vicious, cold-blooded child rapist/killer? Something is way wrong here.

We're all so very PC nowadays. Besides which, animals are far less ambiguous. It's really really hard to make the argument that a kitten or a puppy is anything other than innocent, so when they're mistreated or killed, there's no ambiguity - it's perfectly alright to view the abuser as a horrible person who deserves many bad and painful things to happen to them. With humans, it's far more complicated. We think - maybe it was self-defense. Maybe the killer was provoked. Not saying it's right or anything, but I think it's far easier to get up in arms about the slaying or abuse of an animal than a human (and I certainly don't judge- I was one of those who would have wanted to lynch that puppy-throwing girl).

 

[doodle]

I've noticed a number of people who have said something to the effect of, "If your loved one were murdered, etc, I bet you'd support capital punishment then." I'm typing this less than twelve hours after learning of the murder of a very dear friend, and yes, I still oppose the death penalty. Killing the monster who blew away my friend and left him for dead in his driveway doesn't bring him back, it doesn't honor the amazing life my friend led, and it doesn't prevent the same from happening again any more than life in prison would. Do I want the guy caught and punished? ABSOLUTELY. But viewing his life as worthless like he did my friend's makes me as callous as the shooter was, in my opinion. I also think the "you'd change your mind if it happened to you" argument advocates basing justice on a gut emotional reaction rather than on reason. That sounds like the makings for a legal system that would leave a heckuva lot of victims in its wake to me.

 

[that_someone_special]

I agree with CP but hesitate... I wonder how many innocent people have been killed. Being innocent and living in prison has to be better than being put to death for a crime you didn't commit... how rare that may be... I don't know. But even ONE person being killed for something they haven't done worries me... so I don't really know where I am on this.

 

[davi_el_mejor]

I agree with CP but hesitate... I wonder how many innocent people have been killed. Being innocent and living in prison has to be better than being put to death for a crime you didn't commit... how rare that may be... I don't know. But even ONE person being killed for something they haven't done worries me... so I don't really know where I am on this.

They're still going to die in prison. Unless someone, somewhere, finds their case, finds enough evidence to overturn the ruling and then gets the money to present it to the state/feds and exonerates them.

Which one do you find more scary? Living a "life" in a prison as an innocent person muddled with truly hardened criminals, or the appellate process of the death penalty? (food for thought, it takes a minimum of 17 years in California for the appeals process for the death penalty)

 

[Irishgrrrl]

They're still going to die in prison. Unless someone, somewhere, finds their case, finds enough evidence to overturn the ruling and then gets the money to present it to the state/feds and exonerates them.

Which one do you find more scary? Living a "life" in a prison as an innocent person muddled with truly hardened criminals, or the appellate process of the death penalty? (food for thought, it takes a minimum of 17 years in California for the appeals process for the death penalty)

So then it's a very good thing that the Innocence Project exists, right?

And in Texas, Joe Gonzalez was executed on September 18, 1996, after spending only 248 days on Death Row. There is no way that a thorough appeal process can take place in less than nine months!

 

[Dreamer_D]

My gut reaction is the same as yours, crasru, when it comes to people who rape and nurder children and commit equally terrible crimes. My gut tells me those people do not deserve to live.

But my head tells me that the system is not perfect, and injustices occurr in the judicial system too frequently for me to feel utterly comfortable with the death penalty. Black men are something like 100x more likely than white men to end up on death row for the same crime, it is not uncommon for men who spend 10 years of more in jail to be found innocent of their purported crimes. Thinking about the possibility that a man would be unjustly put to death, it makes my skin crawl. It makes me a little sick to imagine it happening.

I don't know how to reconcile these two feelings.

 

[princesss]

I've noticed a number of people who have said something to the effect of, "If your loved one were murdered, etc, I bet you'd support capital punishment then." I'm typing this less than twelve hours after learning of the murder of a very dear friend, and yes, I still oppose the death penalty. Killing the monster who blew away my friend and left him for dead in his driveway doesn't bring him back, it doesn't honor the amazing life my friend led, and it doesn't prevent the same from happening again any more than life in prison would. Do I want the guy caught and punished? ABSOLUTELY. But viewing his life as worthless like he did my friend's makes me as callous as the shooter was, in my opinion. I also think the "you'd change your mind if it happened to you" argument advocates basing justice on a gut emotional reaction rather than on reason. That sounds like the makings for a legal system that would leave a heckuva lot of victims in its wake to me.

Doodle, thank you for this post. I've often thought that the "If it happened to you" argument would lead to far too many irrational, reckless, hateful decisions and I think that part of what the justice system does right is remove the response from the heat of the moment - in the heat of the moment I might say I want somebody dead, but would I be able to live with myself a year later? While I do think there is TOO much time between crime and punishment, I do think there needs to be some time.

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss, but thank you for coming here and sharing your perspective. I don't think I could have done it.

*hug*

 

[Arkteia]

I, too, have mixed feelings about capital punishment. On the one hand, I feel that it is necessary. On the other hand, if I were a member of the jury making a decision, I probably would not be able to vote for death. I am a believer, but I do not think it has to do with religious beliefs. I just could not accept the responsibility.

What if I were a relative of a victim of heinous crime - not a random accident, but a cool-blooded, sadistic, premedicated murder? Like Ted Bundy or Green River killer... situations where it had been proven? My first thought was be, I'd take justice in my own hands. Then I thought, no, I would not do it because my beloved ones needed me. The way I am thinking now, if someone brutally, sadistically killed my relative, and got slapped on his hands with a prison term, I'd work as hard as I can and spend as much money as I can on lawyers, trials, petitions, moving the beast to worse jail, what not... to turn prison existence of this monster a torture. And I would not feel remorseful. But only if his guilt was obvious.

And here is an example of a person who took the law in his hands. No comments here, since he represents an ethnic group where vendetta is normal. I am talking about well-known plane collision in Lake Konstanz, Switzerland, area. I don't even know how I feel about the situation, but here is the man who lost his wife and two children in the accident and took the law in his hands because he felt that the man directly responsible for their death was out free in one year and did not feel remorseful.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.avia ... 9ee2b01129

 

[AGBF]

My gut reaction is the same as yours, crasru, when it comes to people who rape and nurder children and commit equally terrible crimes. My gut tells me those people do not deserve to live.

But my head tells me that the system is not perfect, and injustices occurr in the judicial system too frequently for me to feel utterly comfortable with the death penalty. Black men are something like 100x more likely than white men to end up on death row for the same crime, it is not uncommon for men who spend 10 years of more in jail to be found innocent of their purported crimes. Thinking about the possibility that a man would be unjustly put to death, it makes my skin crawl. It makes me a little sick to imagine it happening.

I don't know how to reconcile these two feelings.

You can't reconcile the two. If you put someone innocent to death, you committed the worst crime of which anyone is capable, right? What can be reconciled about that?

(And, once again, a person's possible innocence of a crime has only a small part in my personal opposition to the death penalty.)

AGBF

 

[panda08]

I've noticed a number of people who have said something to the effect of, "If your loved one were murdered, etc, I bet you'd support capital punishment then." I'm typing this less than twelve hours after learning of the murder of a very dear friend, and yes, I still oppose the death penalty. Killing the monster who blew away my friend and left him for dead in his driveway doesn't bring him back, it doesn't honor the amazing life my friend led, and it doesn't prevent the same from happening again any more than life in prison would. Do I want the guy caught and punished? ABSOLUTELY. But viewing his life as worthless like he did my friend's makes me as callous as the shooter was, in my opinion. I also think the "you'd change your mind if it happened to you" argument advocates basing justice on a gut emotional reaction rather than on reason. That sounds like the makings for a legal system that would leave a heckuva lot of victims in its wake to me.

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss, Doodle. I appreciate your thoughtful post in this difficult time. May your dear friend rest in peace.

 

[swimmer]

In the Richard Attenborough movie Gandhi, a Hindu nationalist confesses to Gandhi that he murdered a Muslim child. He is full of remorse and guilt. Gandhi tells him that the only way to repent - though it cannot undo the murder - is to adopt a Muslim child orphaned by the violence, and raise him to be an observant Muslim adult.

And the universe can be made a bit more whole. I'm more into repenting than revenge, but the holy days are upon us.

Two of my siblings were killed. I am still very much opposed to the death penalty. Nothing will bring them back. Sinking to the base level of "an eye for an eye" would render me as soul-less and depraved as their murderers.

 

[dragonfly411]

AGBF - can I ask, what is it you would have done with those that are undeniably guilty of heinous and horrible crimes? What would you have done to those who have killed others with no remorse? Repeatedly? What of those that have left bodies posed, removed limbs and left them to be found, have tied up, tortured, and raped other people before killing them, or injuring them and leaving them to die?

I'm just presenting those as a scenario of people that are undeniably guilty and in my opinion, evil. I do understand you are against the death sentence, but I'd like to hear what your idea of a just punishment is? Manson once requested to be allowed to stay in prison because it felt like home. Should we give those people that comfort, though it is small, and not grand compared to freedom, to some it does become a comfort. What do we do with those people, who show no remorse, and feel like they've won out in getting their bed and three meals a day. Who go on to write books, and poetry like Danny Rolling did (I had the name misspelled earlier, my apologies), before being executed. What of those that kill other inmates, and stab their guards just to be put in a safer environ within the prisons? Is that fair for them to get to, after they killed so many already?


ETA : Actually, I'd be interested to hear others' answers to this question as well. For those of you who are against the death penalty, what do you propose to be a good punishment for these people?

 

[dragonfly411]

Swimmer and Doodle - I am sorry for your losses. I hope that their lives are remembered by embracing fond memories, and that they rest peacefully.

 

[AGBF]

AGBF - can I ask, what is it you would have done with those that are undeniably guilty of heinous and horrible crimes? What would you have done to those who have killed others with no remorse? Repeatedly? What of those that have left bodies posed, removed limbs and left them to be found, have tied up, tortured, and raped other people before killing them, or injuring them and leaving them to die?

I'm just presenting those as a scenario of people that are undeniably guilty and in my opinion, evil. I do understand you are against the death sentence, but I'd like to hear what your idea of a just punishment is? Manson once requested to be allowed to stay in prison because it felt like home. Should we give those people that comfort, though it is small, and not grand compared to freedom, to some it does become a comfort. What do we do with those people, who show no remorse, and feel like they've won out in getting their bed and three meals a day. Who go on to write books, and poetry like Danny Rolling did (I had the name misspelled earlier, my apologies), before being executed. What of those that kill other inmates, and stab their guards just to be put in a safer environ within the prisons? Is that fair for them to get to, after they killed so many already?


ETA : Actually, I'd be interested to hear others' answers to this question as well. For those of you who are against the death penalty, what do you propose to be a good punishment for these people?

dragonfly,

First, I want to say that if someone killed a member of my family and I was was present, I would try to kill that person with own hands. I have no doubt about that. I have no doubt that I would want, in the heat of passion, to exact a terrible revenge. My philosophical position on this, however, is that it is the job of society to restrain individual members from extracting such revenge, for the greater good. In other words, we must be our brothers' keepers, taking turns in restraining each other as we sustain losses and have the natural urge to exact a vengeance that will help no one. (I agree with swimmer that no one will be helped by avenging the deaths of others.)

Second, I would put murderers, rapists, and other sociopaths away someplace from which they could never escape and where they could never hurt others. It would not be a place where they were punished, but a benign environment, sort of like a Howard Johnson's motel, where they could never do further harm to anyone.

The above is not my idea. It is the idea of a psychiatrist who who worked with sociopaths and realized that they could not help themselves and that they were unresponsive to treatment.

A short sentence is useless. They can never go free. Their natures are not their fault. There is no reason to punish them. They cannot be allowed to hurt others. Contrary to popular belief, the appeals process for a death sentence is the most costly procedure in the world. Housing someone for life would ost a pittance compared to the cost of the trials and appeals of the average death row inmate.

So, without putting more than a few seconds of time into my answer, that's what I would do. But whatever glitches I had to work out, one thing I would do right away: I'd stop the death penalty, like all the civilized, European Western countries. I know that is an ethnocentric view, but ethncentrism is universal. I have heard Singapore lauded here for days. I will take the opportunity today to say a few words in favor of Denmark and Sweden.

AGBF


Deb/AGBF

 

[goCubsgo]

I would like to ask a question I am genuinely curious about:

For those who keep saying that the death penalty won't bring their loved one back, well, by that logic neither will a life sentence in jail. So what is the point? No punishment will ever bring a loved one back. I don't get the relevance of that argument. It's a moot point.

I am sorry for those who've experienced such awful losses.

Another question:

You do realize that plenty of convicted prisoners have escaped from jail (and killed again), right? Ted Bundy escaped once from prison after his first arrest, only to kill a 12 year old girl in Florida, where he was ultimately caught for good and executed. How utterly tragic that he was able to take another life before this finally happened.

 

[AGBF]

I would like to ask a question I am genuinely curious about:

For those who keep saying that the death penalty won't bring their loved one back, well, by that logic neither will a life sentence in jail. So what is the point? No punishment will ever bring a loved one back. I don't get the relevance of that argument. It's a moot point.

I am sorry for those who've experienced such awful losses.

The only point of jailing someone who kills is, in my opinion, to keep him off the streets.

AGBF

 

[LadyBlue]

AGBF - can I ask, what is it you would have done with those that are undeniably guilty of heinous and horrible crimes? What would you have done to those who have killed others with no remorse? Repeatedly? What of those that have left bodies posed, removed limbs and left them to be found, have tied up, tortured, and raped other people before killing them, or injuring them and leaving them to die?

I'm just presenting those as a scenario of people that are undeniably guilty and in my opinion, evil. I do understand you are against the death sentence, but I'd like to hear what your idea of a just punishment is? Manson once requested to be allowed to stay in prison because it felt like home. Should we give those people that comfort, though it is small, and not grand compared to freedom, to some it does become a comfort. What do we do with those people, who show no remorse, and feel like they've won out in getting their bed and three meals a day. Who go on to write books, and poetry like Danny Rolling did (I had the name misspelled earlier, my apologies), before being executed. What of those that kill other inmates, and stab their guards just to be put in a safer environ within the prisons? Is that fair for them to get to, after they killed so many already?


ETA : Actually, I'd be interested to hear others' answers to this question as well. For those of you who are against the death penalty, what do you propose to be a good punishment for these people?

Can I ask you who do think you are to have the power to decide how to punish and who deserves to live or not.

My point is not to hurt or make someone's live miserable, in the moment I decided to hurt and punish someone I become one of them.

I acknowledge that they can not be set free because they are dangerous, that's why they should be look for life. I'm not here to punish anybody, that's not my job. My job is to help to create a better world.

 

[goCubsgo]

I would like to ask a question I am genuinely curious about:

For those who keep saying that the death penalty won't bring their loved one back, well, by that logic neither will a life sentence in jail. So what is the point? No punishment will ever bring a loved one back. I don't get the relevance of that argument. It's a moot point.

I am sorry for those who've experienced such awful losses.

The only point of jailing someone who kills is, in my opinion, to keep him off the streets.

AGBF

Not foolproof though, as convicts have escaped and killed again. There was a story just recently in the news about the guy (in Aizona I think?) who escaped and murdered a 60 year old husband and wife. Tragic.

 

[dragonfly411]

AGBF - I like your thought. I assume though that from your standpoint your ideal would be with them in solitary confinement. I'd further be interested to know what rights/privileges you believe they should/should not have.

I ask because I'm in major disagreement with how death row currently operates, with comfort for many of these people. Although I do disagree with your stand point that these people can't help themselves and so should not be punished, I'm curious to know what you view to be the right action with their life time sentences.

Again, any others that want to chime in that are opposed to the death penalty I'd really like to hear from you as well. Thanks!

 

[dragonfly411]

Gaby - I personally don't think I should have the power to decide who should or should not live. I do believe that we need to find some way to punish the people who commit these crimes repeatedly with no remorse. Letting them live out their lives with a bed, books, outlets to write and publish, three hot meals, and recreational time to do as they please to me is not a punishment for their own decision to dictate who should or should not live.

 

[goCubsgo]

Gaby - I personally don't think I should have the power to decide who should or should not live. I do believe that we need to find some way to punish the people who commit these crimes repeatedly with no remorse. Letting them live out their lives with a bed, books, outlets to write and publish, three hot meals, and recreational time to do as they please to me is not a punishment for their own decision to dictate who should or should not live.

Agree. How dare they get to take lives and then still go on with the very privileges they cruelly denied others. These prisoners can get jobs, get married, work out, watch TV, smoke, write letters, read, and get TV time and notoriety by doing interviews. Makes me ill. This is REAL...these prisoners have it better than when they were free on the streets for crying out loud. Maybe if prison time were different (nothing other than a stark cell with a cot, food and water) then I could support it.

 

[Dreamer_D]

My gut reaction is the same as yours, crasru, when it comes to people who rape and nurder children and commit equally terrible crimes. My gut tells me those people do not deserve to live.

But my head tells me that the system is not perfect, and injustices occurr in the judicial system too frequently for me to feel utterly comfortable with the death penalty. Black men are something like 100x more likely than white men to end up on death row for the same crime, it is not uncommon for men who spend 10 years of more in jail to be found innocent of their purported crimes. Thinking about the possibility that a man would be unjustly put to death, it makes my skin crawl. It makes me a little sick to imagine it happening.

I don't know how to reconcile these two feelings.

You can't reconcile the two. If you put someone innocent to death, you committed the worst crime of which anyone is capable, right? What can be reconciled about that?

(And, once again, a person's possible innocence of a crime has only a small part in my personal opposition to the death penalty.)

AGBF

I was speaking about reconciling my opposing emotional reactions to the death penatly, not reconciling broader moral or behavioural issues inherent to each side of the coin. And telling me what you think about the issue will not change my emotional reactions . We are animals, in my opinion, and as such the gut reaction of wanting to aggress against others who hurt us it natural. It is also natural to feel deep pain at the thought of killing someone else. Ignoring either reaction will not make it go away, or change those feelings.

 

[Dreamer_D]

So, without putting more than a few seconds of time into my answer, that's what I would do. But whatever glitches I had to work out, one thing I would do right away: I'd stop the death penalty, like all the civilized, European Western countries. I know that is an ethnocentric view, but ethncentrism is universal. I have heard Singapore lauded here for days. I will take the opportunity today to say a few words in favor of Denmark and Sweden.

AGBF


Deb/AGBF

We do not have a death penalty in Canada either, Deb. You needen't look so far as Europe