Calling all PS thesis-tacklers, researchers, and students!

[AmberGretchen]

katamari - thanks for checking in. Thesis committee meeting prep is coming along, slowly but surely, usually seems like more slowly than surely

Awesome job getting your NSF grant in - I will keep my fingers crossed super hard that it comes through. I really hope you are able to get those papers in too.

Can you at least take a mini-break from work to celebrate? Treat yourself to something small and short, like a nice mani/pedi, or a new novel, or a fun movie? I feel like you deserve something

 

[LabRatPhD]

Just saw this thread and wanted to say hi! I am a 3rd year PhD student in cell and molecular biology. I finished all the required coursework last semester (took my prelim last spring) and now am full-time working on my dissertation. This past week has been so tough as far as motivation for starting a new set of experiments!

I need to collect data from now until the end of March for an NRSA fellowship I am applying for. I am so stressed out about that

I feel like I am in a rut lately with my project and my advisor is not helping the situation. He is incredibly pushy and he keeps adding mini-projects to somehow incorporate into my dissertation. It''s so frustrating because I feel like he doesn''t see how full my plate is with my original dissertation work. Our lab is pretty big and half the time he has no clue what I am doing. The only nice thing is that like AmberGretchen, my advisor is very well-funded so even if I don''t get the NRSA (heard it has become very very competitive), I can continue my research without a problem. The application process still causes me a lot of stress!

Whew, thanks for letting me vent! This is a great thread!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Welcome LabRat - I''m glad you found this thread! I know exactly what you mean about your advisor continually adding small projects to your already-full plate. Mine just decided that my most recent data is interesting enough that he wants me to publish ANOTHER paper - because clearly, I don''t have enough to do what with trying to graduate by the summer and all

I wish I could offer some useful advice, but the only thing I can say is if you just keep coming back to your original proposal and the central hypotheses, and focusing on those, your advisor will most likely forget about at least some of the smaller projects he has asked you to do. Another strategy that has worked for me in the past is to ask my advisor to help me prioritize what are the most important pieces of work to get done in the short term, and which can wait a little longer.

Good luck with your fellowship application - I had several friends who got that fellowship (unfortunately, my application wasn''t considered complete because my undergrad institution failed to submit my transcripts from there on time

), but I really hope it comes through for you!

I''m here at lab, tomorrow is the big thesis committee meeting, and my advisor sent me a snarky note saying I didn''t proofread the most recent draft of my paper carefully enough, and so I''ve spent all day going over it with a fine-tooth comb, and I really hope this is the final draft (though I''m not holding my breath

).

Anyway, if you have some dust to spare, wish me tons of good luck tomorrow around 3pm PST - I''ll come back and update with how the meeting went, fingers crossed!

 

[katamari]

Welcome, LabRat! It is great to see so many grads on PS.

Hopefully the projects your advisor is adding on will at least turn into publications. Are you looking to go into academia? If so, the more projects the better on someone else's funding(as one possible upside). Either way, it might help to talk with your advisor and remind him just how many projects you are working on during this timeline. If he is like my advisors, it will be in one ear and out the other

, but at least you can then remind him of it. Good luck on your fellowship app in March!

That is really close, so feel free to vent as you get closer.



AG I did take a couple days off to wedding plan, and made some big steps. I booked our flights and started making arrangements for our hometown celebration once we return. But, now it is back to work.

Unfortunately, though, I have been sick. I came home at lunch today to take a little nap, set my alarm for a.m. instead of p.m., and SLEPT THROUGH MY APPOINTMENT WITH MY ADVISOR!

She is sooo mad at me, but she agreed to reschedule for Wednesday. I hope it goes okay. She is up for tenure review right now, and is crazy stressed. I really feel for her, and it is making me nervous about having to go through the process myself (assuming I can get a tenure-track job, of course).

I was supposed to hear back from my first grant app. in February. I hope funding hasn't been cut, and am starting to get nervous. Hopefully I can report back with some news, soon.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Hi everyone-- sorry I have been so MIA! This semester has been hellish and I''m honestly scraping just to get by in terms of time.

Welcome to the thread, LabRat! How inconsiderate of your advisor to give you extra projects. I hope you''re able to work something out. Also, wonderful about your funding being strong through your advisor. That is very helpful in the recession, I''m sure!

Amber, I know I already posted this, but CONGRATS on your successful meeting!! You have worked so hard and it obviously shows.

Katamari, I hope you have been feeling better from the last time you posted. I also hope you get good news about the grant. I am sending dust your way!!


I have mostly boring news on my end... thesis is going well, blah blah, planning my symposium presentation here at my own college and putting together my presentation for the regional conference [a *real* conference!!] that I will be going to in May. Thesis stuff is coming along and I feel like I am making progress, even though the project feels insurmountable at times.

BUT on DW''s end, the news is hoppin''! I posted that she got into her first choice PhD program a few weeks ago, but she got an email today about funding!!! She''s been given one of their best fellowships which has all fees and tuition paid for 5 years, health insurance for 5 years, and maybe best of all two years of $21,000 each year in funding as well as three years of paid TA-ships. Sorry if it''s tacky to post all that, but I am just over the moon! We won''t be homeless!! We are moving to Santa Barbara almost for sure now. I am thrilled!!!!

I hope all of your recent news is as positive as mine!

 

[AmberGretchen]

katamari - that''s such a scary thing to miss appointments with your advisor. Honestly, I think everyone does it at least once (I think I''ve done it twice

), I''m sure she''ll have forgotten all about it in a week or so - she obviously has a lot on her mind right now!

I''m so glad you made progress on the wedding.

Wishful - that''s AMAZING news about DW and her fellowship - you guys are going to have such an awesome time in SB - its so beautiful there. Do you know when you''re moving? I think DH and I might be out in SoCal in the middle of August, it would be wild if we could actually meet you guys!

I''m sorry this is such a rough semester - I know that Spring always cheered my spirits, so hopefully when the weather starts perking up in a month or two back East, you will feel a little more able to bear it. In any case, I''m guessing the last few months of school will just fly by for you and DW, especially now that you have such a fantastic year next year to look forward to!

I don''t really have any thesis updates - I''ve been on vacation all week with my lovely DH, just taking some time to kick back and relax and actually spend time together. Its been heavenly.

I''m not looking forward to going back to lab on Monday, but I''m resolved to keep my nose to the grindstone and power through these last few months - I feel much less stressed at least knowing that the end is in sight.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Thanks so much, Amber! It definitely is a lot less stressful knowing what is in store and that it is going to be a wonderful adventure. I can''t wait to finally see Santa Barbara... the first time I get to see it will be when I''m moving for real, so it''d better be as lovely as the pictures!! We will hopefully be moving mid-August. We''re trying to avoid paying rent as long as possible by staying with our families this summer, so I will be in MA most of the summer. Boy is SB expensive! We will have to get used to that, but now we know we won''t live on the street, which is comforting.

It would be lovely to meet you and your DH, Amber! If not this summer perhaps some other time in the near future.

Thanks for the reminder about Spring! It''s terrible and gloomy out here right now, as I''m sure you know. It will hopefully be warmer and brighter soon, which would make alll of us East Coast people happier than we are now. Tempers are a little tight even in class. It''s quite odd.

I''m glad you had such a relaxing vacation with your DH. It sounds like you are refreshed and ready to get back to work. You are almost done!

And, for that matter, so am I! YAY! I wasn''t sure I''d be ready to graduate by May, but I''m ready for sure right now. I am burnt out! I am now thinking of taking two years off and applying not this coming fall, but the next one to grad school. Two main reasons: DW needs to be two years in-residence, so if I applied next year and did not get accepted to UCSB I may have to go elsewhere and we would be apart. If I applied the year after DW would be more flexible. The other reason is that I do not feel prepared to take the GRE right now, and I''d like to have time to actually prepare for it, including maybe taking a class. I am not sure if I will be able to do that and apply on top of moving across the country and at a time when we are frankly going to be struggling financially. It might be better to just settle in first. We''re still playing around with it, but I think it would give both of us more freedom to pursue the things that are important to us individually while not sacrificing our relationship in the process. In other words, we would better be able to negotiate the things which we individually need to do to advance our careers, etc. Really, it would mean a lot less sacrifice on my part in terms of what programs I could go to, which is very appealing to both of us. We''re still thinking it through!

Also, this is a basic grad. app. question that you ladies might have some thoughts on:
Is it really bad if none of my letter of recommendation writers are tenured profs? I am newly obsessed with this website called grad cafe full of over-achieving grad applicants [worse than me, even!] and it''s making me even more neurotic than I already am. I guess the answer doesn''t matter too much either way... I have worked closely with the professors I''ve worked with and I can''t do anything to change that, so they will be who they will be. Do you think this honestly matters? If it helps they all know my work, I''ve taken multiple classes with all of them, all of the classes were A grades, and all three of them have advised me in independent research, including being on my thesis committee. If I sound neurotic it''s because this stupid website [which I am avoiding now, for the record!] has made me second-guess what I thought would be awesome letters of recommendation!

 

[katamari]

Wishful, Yay for your DW!

That is awesome news. I have a similar funding package, and it has made graduate school so much easier! Plus, to get into her top choice program and get funding--that is the best possible option!

Now, just ride out those final 2 MONTHS! of college! You are almost finished!

As for delaying, I have told you before that I would not recommend it, but I just want to again encourage you not to wait. Especially if you are both considering academic jobs, it is so much easier to try to be placed at the same time than to have to have one of you go and then hope that a job opens for the other of you. FI is going to finish behind me and it is almost certain that we will have to live apart through our Assistant Professorships, and, given the distance, it may make it so that we cannot have a family (since we are both already in our 30s). With two PhDs in a household (if you decide to get your PhD), there will be a large likelihood that you will have to live apart. You have to decide that, if you have to be apart, would you rather be apart now or later. Particularly if you plan on a family, it is probably better to be apart earlier. And, think about what this means in terms of age. For instance, I will be at least 38 before I will have tenure (and, as a result, job security). FI, since in math and CS requires 1-2 postdocs, will be closer to 45.

You also cannot assume that DW can actually leave. I know there are rules about being in residence, but as you get further along in the program, it is so much more important for you to have access to your advisors and committee. I would be completely unable to move right now, even though I am technically allowed to move.

Plus, just in general, you can''t let the GRE become too big. The longer you wait, the more you will think it is something larger than it is (it really just is a standardized test that only constitutes a small portion of your graduate application) and you don''t want to become crippled by it. I think taking a class may be a great idea, but thinking that you need a year longer to study for it is putting too much emphasis on it. I used to tutor for SAT and the more concentrated studying you do, the better you will do, because so much of the exam is recall and you can recall crammed information so much better. The only thing, in terms of GRE, that you need to do is hit the minimum required by the departments you are considering.

Don''t get me wrong, I think you are both fully able to come up with your own decision. But, as I mentioned before, you can always come up with a reason to postpone. Again, I promise I do not mean to be lecturing, but you already went from rationalizing not going for one year to rationalizing not going for two years. It is a slippery slope and especially once you start making real money, it becomes slipperier. I suggest you at least apply to UCSB and other colleges within commuting distance that you would consider attending. You seem to be focusing on not getting in--you may actually get in!

And, for more bad news, YES! It totally matters if none of your letter writers are tenured profs. Are they Assistants, and just not tenured? Or, are they lecturers/Visitings? A form letter from a prestigious faculty member is worth a million times more than a letter from someone else. I tell my students this all the time. Unfortunately, being at a large R1 university, our department is structured so that a major can easily graduate without ever taking a class with a faculty member. I have to write letters of recommendation all the time, as a result, many capable students do not get into top programs, and I fully believe they would have, were they to have taken courses with faculty. I honestly can''t believe, though, that your college allows non-faculty to head thesis committees. This is just laziness on your department''s fault, but it does really upset me for you and your fellow students. Particularly for what you must pay in tuition, that is inexcusable.

Basically, what I have heard from our department is that they read letters from non-faculty, but they aren''t considered during admissions decisions. Now, since they read them, the information is obviously considered, because there is no way to forget it. So, in this case, it is good to have a letter or two from your professors who knew you and are familiar with your work. But, my guess is that a faculty letter could pull someone into being admitted that is on the fence otherwise. Particularly if you have faculty in your department that are central to the discipline, you can meet with them, discuss your goals, and still have them write you meaningful letters. If you need 3 letters, I would absolutely make sure that one of them is from faculty.


AG I hope you had a wonderful time on vacation! I cannot wait to hear about it. Enjoy your final day before returning to the lab!


My advisor did forgive me for missing our meeting, I basically did a two week''s worth of work for her in the last three days, and I think that made her happy. I have been waiting to hear back on reviews on the 2 articles I sent out this summer and from my grants. Six months review times make me angry,

particularly because I need these publications to be competitive for top jobs. I am working on another project right now and am trying to get through the end of the quarter (about to enter week 9 of 10) in teaching. I am starting to get panicked beyond belief

about the job market, but am trying to channel it into productivity instead of avoidance.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Thanks for your helpful reply, Katamari. I will try not to make the GRE into a big thing. I am nervous because I bombed the SAT big time, and applied to a college undergrad where they did not consider my score [I did not even have to submit it.] If I do as poorly on the GRE I will not get in anywhere. Period. I am a terrible test-taker. I will take the course this summer and figure out a way to apply in the fall. Everything you''re saying makes perfect sense!

The letter thing is a very, very big deal and a horrible thing. For recommenders I have two visiting assistant profs and a visiting instructor. I cannot emphasize enough how much this screws me if it''s really the case. At my college I have a lot of contact with all of the faculty I have taken courses with, but my department is not stacked with people in my specific subfield. As a result, there are not many tenured profs in my sub-field and I have taken a course with only two of them. I have WAY above the number of required credits in my major, and still I have worked mainly with visiting profs. I don''t feel I know the tenured profs well enough to seriously even ask for a recommendation, and I doubt they would write me a very good or personalized one. My thesis director is a visiting prof, as are the members of my committee. It was either have them advise, or not write a thesis; no one else was qualified to work with me in my subject-matter. I had to petition the department and the dean of the college for permission to have them work with me. I am really freaking out to the point where I am in tears here. There is no way I am going to get into grad school. Just when I thought things were going so well... everything is messed up again and I am back on track stressing and crying. It couldn''t get any worse than this.

 

[katamari]

Date: 3/1/2009 3:25:29 PM
Author: WishfulThinking
For recommenders I have two visiting assistant profs and a visiting instructor.

I am really freaking out to the point where I am in tears here. There is no way I am going to get into grad school. Just when I thought things were going so well... everything is messed up again and I am back on track stressing and crying. It couldn''t get any worse than this.

If they are visiting Assistants, they are tenured faculty, just not tenured through your school, so they are okay! With them, using one instructor won''t be a big deal. You can always ask your Profs what they think. They will know if it will impact you to write the letters, and should have already told you if they didn''t think they would be good recommenders. Plus, for most students applying (like mine), their non-faculty people will be graduate students, so the fact that yours are PhDs will bode better. Again, though, talk to your advisor. They will know your subfield much better, and will be able to talk to faculty for you, if they think you need another letter. In some cases, they can even write the letter for the faculty member and the faculty member will just sign it (as unethical as this sounds, I think it is very common).

Please, please, please try not to worry about graduate school. YOU WILL GET IN!

I promise. At the graduate level, schools are much more interested in your ability to produce independent research THAN ANYTHING ELSE! It is a complete 180 from undergrad (which is why you will enjoy it, too). Grades mean nothing in graduate school as long as you are doing what is expected of you. Test scores are only a screening mechanism. Your thesis was a paper that you came up with yourself, you worked with faculty whose interests are not directly aligned with what you did, and you completed it. This is what will matter for grad schools. I PROMISE THIS IS TRUE!

Plus, and, again, I am really not trying to trivialize what you are experiencing, but the GRE is a test of memorization. The prep books tell you the mathematical formulas that will be on the exam--and they will be. The vocabulary is the only unpredictable part, simply because there are so many words to choose from. But, given the caliber of your education, I promise this will not be a problem for you.

I remember worrying about my GRE. I even wrote an angry letter to my high school about how they ruined my life by not requiring Latin. But, when I think about it now, I cannot believe I let it get to me like that. I am 100% sure that I would have done significantly better on the exam had I not let it worry me so much. I tend to get crippled by anxiety and it ends up ruining me. I just don''t want to have that happen to you, or anyone else! The only way you can be sure to never do good enough on the exam to get into grad school is to never take it!

I suggest staying away from the grad cafe forum. I understand it might be nice to commiserate, but you are getting advice from people who don''t know anything about the admissions process from the admitting side. The only thing it will do, then, is to build unnecessary anxiety. These people are merely speculating and producing worst-case scenarios. They have not even necessarily successfully navigated the system. You are essentially relying on someone with no knowledge or experience, which is a problem! There is a wiki in my field that is the same about the job market. Grad students basically spread rumors, freak out about if there will be jobs/where the jobs will be/what they will be hiring, and in the end, it does them no good. All it does is create anxiety, and, having followed the information through (by being able to see if schools hire/who they hire/etc.) about 95% of the information is false. In fact, a bunch of my colleagues refer to it as the "Terror Alert" because it is so meaningless, yet so able to create irrational fear.

Admissions processes are idiosyncratic. That is scary. But, you honesty can''t make them worse than they are. Faculty on admissions committees are all intelligent enough to understand the limitations of the admissions process. That is why the applications are so multi-faceted. If you could truly be evaluated by a bunch of numbers (i.e. GRE/GPA), they would only ask for that because it is easy. However, they know that is not the case, so you have to submit personal essays, writing samples, letters, etc. . . By presenting yourself as someone who is interested in answering important questions through good research, you will be interesting to departments. I PROMISE! Please do not be upset!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Wishful honey, I''m so sorry to hear you sound so stressed! I am hurting for you reading these posts

I have to say though, I agree with katamari on several of the points. The first is that I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that you WILL GET IN to excellent graduate programs. Really, honestly, and truly you will. The ability and enthusiasm to do independent research in your field is the #1 absolutely most important thing, and your visiting assistant professors will absolutely be able to attest to your extraordinary ability to do that. So please please please do not psych yourself out - there are absolutely things you can do to improve your chances at schools you are especially interested in, but no matter what else you do, you will get in. You are everything a graduate program is looking for, and the people who make these decisions are trained to recognize that.

Secondly, I''m going to ditto katamari on the GRE thing. I''m willing to bet if you could go in to it calmly, without any studying whatsoever, you would do extremely well. Remember that 1/3 of it is writing, and the writing is of the most basic, formulaic kind. I got a perfect score on that part and I''m a scientist

I''m absolutely sure you will ace that part. Another third is the verbal part, and as katamari said, with your education, the vocab and the reading comprehension etc...will be a breeze. Really and truly they will - you would not have come this far unless you had an aptitude for these things. So the verbal and the writing will be a breeze, and then there is just the math. I agree that memorizing the formulas is helpful, but beyond that, remember, you aren''t applying to a math or science program and so they are unlikely to care at all. So basically, you''ve got two sections you are likely to ace, and one that doesn''t really matter anyway. How bad could that be?

Seriously though, I don''t think a class is necessary, though if it will boost your confidence, by all means go for it and take one. But I think you''d probably be fine with just a book and some flashcards.

In terms of waiting a year or two years and coordinating with DW, that gets a little more complicated, and I''m sure you''ve thought it through extensively, but for what its worth, I''ll throw out some thoughts based on my experience, in case they are helpful for you.

The first thought is that you should think about what you both want to do long term. If you are like katamari and her FI, and you both really want tenured faculty positions, then she is probably right that you will likely have to be apart at some point, and you should give some thought to whether it would be better to do that now or later. Tenure-track academia is extremely difficult and competitive - even in my grad program (one of the top in the country for what I do), only the best of the best go on to pursue that path. But I think you''ve said before that you''re not sure if that''s what you want to do eventually, and I don''t think we know what your DW wants to do (forgive me if you''ve posted that and I''ve not read carefully enough)? So I think that really trying to take your best educated guess about what you want your careers to look like should definitely inform your decision.

The second thought is that, for what its worth, I wish I had taken some time off before plunging into my PhD. In my case, if I had, I probably would have changed my mind about doing it at all, and that probably would have been a better decision for me, although I had no inkling of that at the time. With some notable exceptions (including a dear friend of mine), most of the people I know who took time off in between tended to do better in grad school - they really knew what they were getting into more and were more mentally and emotionally prepared. On the other hand, some of them really struggled with trying to have a family and with other commitments outside of school, and also with the financial difficulties of being in school after working and making real money. So I totally get where you are coming from with the idea of taking time off, be it one or two years or more. My DH, who is absolutely brilliant, still doesn''t know if he wants to go back to school or not. He took his GRE''s this year and aced them, but is still considering options as diverse as a PhD in CS vs. law school, and I''ve really encouraged him to take his time and figure out what will truly be the best fit for him. I wish I''d had more experience and more time before I made my decision - I won''t say I regret it (especially now, so close to the end), but I would encourage you to take my experience for what its worth in informing your own.

Anyway, this is turning into a hugely long post. But please hear my bottom line which is this: when and if the time is right, you will have no trouble getting into an excellent graduate school. But I applaud you for taking your time and thinking long and hard about when and if the time is right, and I''d encourage you to continue that process as long as you need to reach the right decision.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Wow, thank you both so much for being so patient with me. Fuses are short. I need to stress less!

Date: 3/1/2009 4:39:09 PM
Author: katamari
If they are visiting Assistants, they are tenured faculty, just not tenured through your school, so they are okay! With them, using one instructor won''t be a big deal. You can always ask your Profs what they think. They will know if it will impact you to write the letters, and should have already told you if they didn''t think they would be good recommenders. Plus, for most students applying (like mine), their non-faculty people will be graduate students, so the fact that yours are PhDs will bode better. Again, though, talk to your advisor. They will know your subfield much better, and will be able to talk to faculty for you, if they think you need another letter. In some cases, they can even write the letter for the faculty member and the faculty member will just sign it (as unethical as this sounds, I think it is very common).

Thank you! Between my last post and now I had a very long meeting with favourite prof/advisor and asked her what she thought would be good to do about recommendations and she said that she thinks I should have thesis chair [visiting prof] write one recommendation, and she is going to talk to the former head of our department who is now Dean of the College and see if she will write me another letter. This professor taught me for one class that I did very well in that was not in the subfield I am in, but she is very well-regarded, and favourite prof is going to either ghostwrite the letter [you''re right, apparently this is done] or supplement the dean''s knowledge of me as a student with her own. Thank you so much for calming me down. It is going to be okay somehow. Also, this dean former prof is extremely nice and likes me a lot, just does not know me very well as a student.

Date: 3/1/2009 4:39:09 PM
Author: katamari
Please, please, please try not to worry about graduate school. YOU WILL GET IN!

I promise. At the graduate level, schools are much more interested in your ability to produce independent research THAN ANYTHING ELSE! It is a complete 180 from undergrad (which is why you will enjoy it, too). Grades mean nothing in graduate school as long as you are doing what is expected of you. Test scores are only a screening mechanism. Your thesis was a paper that you came up with yourself, you worked with faculty whose interests are not directly aligned with what you did, and you completed it. This is what will matter for grad schools. I PROMISE THIS IS TRUE!

I hope so! Thank you for the vote of confidence.

Date: 3/1/2009 4:39:09 PM
Author: katamari
Plus, and, again, I am really not trying to trivialize what you are experiencing, but the GRE is a test of memorization. The prep books tell you the mathematical formulas that will be on the exam--and they will be. The vocabulary is the only unpredictable part, simply because there are so many words to choose from. But, given the caliber of your education, I promise this will not be a problem for you.

You guys are right, I REALLY need to start thinking about it like this. There is no reason why I should be so freaked out!

Date: 3/1/2009 4:39:09 PM
Author: katamari
I remember worrying about my GRE. I even wrote an angry letter to my high school about how they ruined my life by not requiring Latin. But, when I think about it now, I cannot believe I let it get to me like that. I am 100% sure that I would have done significantly better on the exam had I not let it worry me so much. I tend to get crippled by anxiety and it ends up ruining me. I just don''t want to have that happen to you, or anyone else! The only way you can be sure to never do good enough on the exam to get into grad school is to never take it!

Hah, you wrote them a letter! That''s hilarious. I am an anxiety case, for sure.

Date: 3/1/2009 4:39:09 PM
Author: katamari
I suggest staying away from the grad cafe forum. I understand it might be nice to commiserate, but you are getting advice from people who don''t know anything about the admissions process from the admitting side. The only thing it will do, then, is to build unnecessary anxiety. These people are merely speculating and producing worst-case scenarios. They have not even necessarily successfully navigated the system. You are essentially relying on someone with no knowledge or experience, which is a problem! There is a wiki in my field that is the same about the job market. Grad students basically spread rumors, freak out about if there will be jobs/where the jobs will be/what they will be hiring, and in the end, it does them no good. All it does is create anxiety, and, having followed the information through (by being able to see if schools hire/who they hire/etc.) about 95% of the information is false. In fact, a bunch of my colleagues refer to it as the ''Terror Alert'' because it is so meaningless, yet so able to create irrational fear.

Yes! I will stay away. I swear I said those same words to DW when she was obsessively stalking it during her application process... and then I got sucked in. The last thing I need is to fall for the Terror Alert system and freak out about nothing.

Date: 3/1/2009 4:39:09 PM
Author: katamari
Admissions processes are idiosyncratic. That is scary. But, you honesty can''t make them worse than they are. Faculty on admissions committees are all intelligent enough to understand the limitations of the admissions process. That is why the applications are so multi-faceted. If you could truly be evaluated by a bunch of numbers (i.e. GRE/GPA), they would only ask for that because it is easy. However, they know that is not the case, so you have to submit personal essays, writing samples, letters, etc. . . By presenting yourself as someone who is interested in answering important questions through good research, you will be interesting to departments. I PROMISE! Please do not be upset!

See, this is what I am good at. I am not a numbers person. At all. But man can I write a sample, and boy can I come up with a good SoP!

Thanks again, Katamari.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 3/1/2009 5:19:47 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
Wishful honey, I'm so sorry to hear you sound so stressed! I am hurting for you reading these posts

I have to say though, I agree with katamari on several of the points. The first is that I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that you WILL GET IN to excellent graduate programs. Really, honestly, and truly you will. The ability and enthusiasm to do independent research in your field is the #1 absolutely most important thing, and your visiting assistant professors will absolutely be able to attest to your extraordinary ability to do that. So please please please do not psych yourself out - there are absolutely things you can do to improve your chances at schools you are especially interested in, but no matter what else you do, you will get in. You are everything a graduate program is looking for, and the people who make these decisions are trained to recognize that.

Thank you, Amber. I really hope this is true. The more people go on and on about how the economy is so bad, and applicant pools are bigger than ever, and there is no money and funds are being slashed, and programs are going downhill.... ad nauseum. I hear this every single day and it is really getting to me!

Date: 3/1/2009 5:19:47 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
Secondly, I'm going to ditto katamari on the GRE thing. I'm willing to bet if you could go in to it calmly, without any studying whatsoever, you would do extremely well. Remember that 1/3 of it is writing, and the writing is of the most basic, formulaic kind. I got a perfect score on that part and I'm a scientist

I'm absolutely sure you will ace that part. Another third is the verbal part, and as katamari said, with your education, the vocab and the reading comprehension etc...will be a breeze. Really and truly they will - you would not have come this far unless you had an aptitude for these things. So the verbal and the writing will be a breeze, and then there is just the math. I agree that memorizing the formulas is helpful, but beyond that, remember, you aren't applying to a math or science program and so they are unlikely to care at all. So basically, you've got two sections you are likely to ace, and one that doesn't really matter anyway. How bad could that be?

Hopefully not too bad? Technically if I really f*ck up the quantitative portion it won't hurt me too much. It won't exactly look good, but it wouldn't cripple my application like it might in some other fields. It really is the math that I am worried about. I cannot do basic high school algebra. Yikes. I am going to study and look at the formulas, books, and flashcards like you suggested. [/quote]

Date: 3/1/2009 5:19:47 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
In terms of waiting a year or two years and coordinating with DW, that gets a little more complicated, and I'm sure you've thought it through extensively, but for what its worth, I'll throw out some thoughts based on my experience, in case they are helpful for you.


The first thought is that you should think about what you both want to do long term. If you are like katamari and her FI, and you both really want tenured faculty positions, then she is probably right that you will likely have to be apart at some point, and you should give some thought to whether it would be better to do that now or later. Tenure-track academia is extremely difficult and competitive - even in my grad program (one of the top in the country for what I do), only the best of the best go on to pursue that path. But I think you've said before that you're not sure if that's what you want to do eventually, and I don't think we know what your DW wants to do (forgive me if you've posted that and I've not read carefully enough)? So I think that really trying to take your best educated guess about what you want your careers to look like should definitely inform your decision.


The second thought is that, for what its worth, I wish I had taken some time off before plunging into my PhD. In my case, if I had, I probably would have changed my mind about doing it at all, and that probably would have been a better decision for me, although I had no inkling of that at the time. With some notable exceptions (including a dear friend of mine), most of the people I know who took time off in between tended to do better in grad school - they really knew what they were getting into more and were more mentally and emotionally prepared. On the other hand, some of them really struggled with trying to have a family and with other commitments outside of school, and also with the financial difficulties of being in school after working and making real money. So I totally get where you are coming from with the idea of taking time off, be it one or two years or more. My DH, who is absolutely brilliant, still doesn't know if he wants to go back to school or not. He took his GRE's this year and aced them, but is still considering options as diverse as a PhD in CS vs. law school, and I've really encouraged him to take his time and figure out what will truly be the best fit for him. I wish I'd had more experience and more time before I made my decision - I won't say I regret it (especially now, so close to the end), but I would encourage you to take my experience for what its worth in informing your own.

I am really glad you and Katamari weighed in on this. It seems like there is such a diversity of opinion in what I should do. *sigh* For what it is worth, and this seems like a key point, we are both interested in tenured professor positions at some point. We are all too aware of how difficult this is, but also know we're not the first double-academic family ever to exist and won't be the last. It will be hard, but doable somehow if we are dedicated. That is what I tell myself, anyways. The good news is that everyone I have worked with believes in my ability to succeed in academia and become a professor. Maybe it's meaningless, but it's a nice vote of confidence!

Date: 3/1/2009 5:19:47 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
Anyway, this is turning into a hugely long post. But please hear my bottom line which is this: when and if the time is right, you will have no trouble getting into an excellent graduate school. But I applaud you for taking your time and thinking long and hard about when and if the time is right, and I'd encourage you to continue that process as long as you need to reach the right decision.

Thank you! I am so torn about what to do. I think I will try to take the GREs this summer and see what's what after that's done. I think part of what is making me want to take more time off is that I am SO burnt out right now on school. I am stressed and emotionally volatile and nothing seems to be going right. I haven't had any real breaks in a looooong time. Similarly, this summer I am going to be moving across the country and trying to find a job and work and it feels so insurmountable sometimes. I will probably feel differently and want to get back in school as soon as possible once I have a month or two off, though! I do love school. End of the semester second semester after consecutive school with no breaks for 2 years is not the right time to think about doing more school!!

ETA: Sorry about the post formatting. Yuck!

 

[katamari]

Wishful, I am really glad Amber weighed in because she and I have different experiences. I think I am passing off my regret as advice (and, even having waited and regretted it, my life is still pretty rad). I should be more cautious about doing that. Either way, I know you and DW will make the right decision.

And, I hope that my posts didn''t scare you away or come across as mean. Just as someone who has taught undergraduate students for 5 years now, you are at an intellectual level that they cannot compare to, in my opinion, and I hate to think you are not confident about your potential. Most of my students don''t even try reading Foucault, let alone become passionate about his theories. I know it is a terrifying experience, but I assure you that you will get into graduate school and (more importantly) have a wonderful career and life as a result!

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 3/1/2009 11:24:52 PM
Author: katamari
Wishful, I am really glad Amber weighed in because she and I have different experiences. I think I am passing off my regret as advice (and, even having waited and regretted it, my life is still pretty rad). I should be more cautious about doing that. Either way, I know you and DW will make the right decision.


And, I hope that my posts didn''t scare you away or come across as mean. Just as someone who has taught undergraduate students for 5 years now, you are at an intellectual level that they cannot compare to, in my opinion, and I hate to think you are not confident about your potential. Most of my students don''t even try reading Foucault, let alone become passionate about his theories. I know it is a terrifying experience, but I assure you that you will get into graduate school and (more importantly) have a wonderful career and life as a result!

I think it''s really valuable to have both of your input as well as the input of others. It''s hard to synthesize them all, but we''re working on it! I appreciate you both taking the time out of your busy lives to lend me an ear and some of your wise words.

Your initial posts only scared me because they confirmed my own fears! I am realizing now that it is maybe not quite as hopeless as I was imagining... I hope. I am trying to work on the letters of rec thing the best that I can, seeing that I cannot now take any more classes and I am "stuck" [I love them, though!] with the professors who know me and subject to what they are willing and able to do to help me out. It looks as if they are going to be very accommodating and I know that they have my best interests in mind when deciding what to do. I trust that they will do everything they can to get me into my top choice programs as they have always promised they would do! I need to trust them more, and I need to trust myself more as well. Thank you for the vote of confidence about my intellectual abilities. I do know that I am intelligent, but I think my mindset has been permanently messed up by so many years of straining myself to succeed and nothing ever being good enough to please myself-- most of the pressure is internal rather than external, and I am pretty neurotic [obviously...

] I am really trying hard this semester not to be, and it''s sort of working with my actual schoolwork despite the fact that it is very time consuming. Instead I''ve projected all of my usual stress on worrying about applying to grad school.

I am going to try to take one thing at a time and breathe deeply. It is nice to know that others who have teaching experience think highly of me. I am lucky to have intelligent and driven PS members to weigh in on questions as well as my absolutely incredible and dedicated professors who are so generous with their own time and energy in helping me along and believing in me. As for Foucault, I was required to read him for Queer Theory and the love affair began. One of my good friends who I''ve taken many theory courses with loves to tease me about my Foucault obsession, and my professors always make my explain stuff to the class when we''re tangentially covering a theory of his but not reading him for class. I do have a knack for theory, if I do say so myself. I tend to be very passionate about the things I love [

law, policy, Foucault, Althusser, Arendt

] and stuck on them. At least it''s given me distinct research interests.

Thanks again. I finally got my nerves calmed and am [relatively happily] working on my big Machiavelli paper that is due Wed.!! I hope everyone else is doing well. Sorry to hog the thread with all of my stress and thanks for being so understanding.

 

[dockman3]

Hey everyone! I know its been a while since I''ve posted in here, but I''ve had quite a breakthrough today. I handed out my dissertation to my committee to read and set my defense date for April 7! So now its just a countdown until my defense and then I''ll be done! Not that my dissertation is written, I can start coming back here more often and contributing a bit more. I hope everyone is doing well!

 

[WishfulThinking]

Congratulations, Dockman!! That is a huge accomplishment!!!

 

[LabRatPhD]

katamari - Hi! I actually would like to go into industry (biotech or pharma). I worked in industry before I started grad school and for some reason it clicked with me more. Plus my father is a professor and it just never appealed to me. Luckily the additional projects will result in my name being on publications, but it is annoying to feel like I am getting loaded on.

WishfulThinking - yes, I feel fortunate to be able to continue work without worrying about funding. I hated being a TA (did it for the experience) so I am ecstatic that I don''t have to do it again!

Just an update with me. I mentioned that I wanted to submit an NRSA app at the beginning of April. Well now I probably won''t have enough preliminary data because my PI didn''t fill out the appropriate forms to work with our biological agents that we are using (lentivirus) in mice. I am SO ANGRY

. Once we found out (last week) he made me do all the paperwork! I had NO CLUE how to do it and I was upset that it was put on me, a 3rd year grad student. I almost felt like I was getting blamed for not doing the paperwork before! I am not the PI nor do I have experience dealing with lab biosafety and animal protocols!

I managed to submit a lot of the paperwork today but it won''t get approved in time for my fellowship submission. I am just glad it''s almost the weekend because I may go apesh!t on my PI out of frustration if I had to see him more than tomorrow.

Vent over.

 

[LabRatPhD]

Duh I forgot to write what I intended to and went on with my rant

Wishful - I want to thritto what AG and Katamari said. Do not worry about getting into a great graduate program or the GREs. I took the GREs once but it was a nightmare. I was 30 minutes late to take it because I had to drive 1.5 hours away to take it and couldn''t find the testing center! I was so flustered and thought I was going to have a meltdown! I took the test, did very well, and laugh at the experience now! I was so worried I wouldn''t get into any programs but I actually got into a handful, including my top choice (where I am now).

I took a year off before grad school and really figured out what I wanted to do. I was torn between med school and grad school, and the time really let me figure that out. My SO went straight to law school after college and he says he wishes he would have taken time off. He has actually even considered taking the GRE this summer and he is a 3rd year associate at a law firm! It is definitely something you may want to consider.

You sound very bright and motivated. I am sure you will have your choice of graduate programs. I wish you the best of luck!

(sorry if I am blathering on, I am trying to multitask by working on my fellowship proposal simultaneously!)

 

[katamari]

Date: 3/5/2009 4:27:03 PM
Author: dockman3
Hey everyone! I know its been a while since I''ve posted in here, but I''ve had quite a breakthrough today. I handed out my dissertation to my committee to read and set my defense date for April 7! So now its just a countdown until my defense and then I''ll be done! Not that my dissertation is written, I can start coming back here more often and contributing a bit more. I hope everyone is doing well!

Congrats, Dockman! This is huge and amazing news!

I hope that your committed has nothing but simple suggestions for you. Yahoo!

 

[katamari]

So sorry to hear about your application, LabRat. On the positive side, hopefully this is a valuable skill that you will be able to take with you into the field, but it is terribly irritating to have it sprang on you without the time and know-how to do it in time. Do you have anyone in your university that assists with this type work? Or an older grad student that might help you? My advisors are wonderful advisors, but it is almost always better for me to go find help elsewhere when these kinds of things pop up. I hope you had an otherwise relaxing weekend and were able to get this (and PI) off your mind!

 

[AmberGretchen]

WOOHOO Dockman - AWESOME NEWS!!!

I hope to be there in another 1.5-2 months myself - I''m trying to simultaneously wrap up the last bit of my research (literally one more set of experiments at this point), put the finishing touches on one paper and write another, and write my dissertation all at the same time. I''ll probably defend (though its not really a "defense" at my school - more of just a presentation) some time in late May/early June.

Wishful - I''m so glad you are getting helpful advice here. I have faith that you will make the best decision for you, whatever that turns out to be. I also firmly believe that when the time comes you will get into whatever graduate program you want to and will do extremely well there

labrat - I''m sorry, PI''s can be SUPER frustrating sometimes. Mine has been kicking a paper of mine around for almost 4 months now, and I''m getting so stressed about getting it out with enough time to graduate on time. I''m so sorry yours is being such a pain - in my experience it tends to go in cycles, so hopefully this tough time will be followed by an easier time to come (soon!). I''ll be hoping for you!

 

[LabRatPhD]

Hey all -- thanks for the support

Not much to update except I (yes I, not my PI

) submitted the animal protocol paperwork and we were told it would be reviewed at the end of next week. I guess that''s good.

I''ve just been chugging along full speed with my application since my experiments have been halted.

katamari - There is another grad student helping me out but he is in another lab and I am not on their protocol. It becomes very sticky since I am not a member of his lab. I had a fine weekend since the weather was lovely and I submitted all the protocol paperwork I had to do on Thurs!

AG - I''m hoping things start to go more smoothly too! This year has not started off on a strong foot

. Here''s to hoping things look up soon!

 

[AmberGretchen]

labrat - I know it doesn''t really help right now, but for what its worth, basically everyone I know went through some kind of third year slump in their research during a PhD program. For me, it was that my first project failed completely, and I had to start over again from scratch - I didn''t even want to be in grad school anymore at that time, and I seriously considered giving up and walking away with my master''s.

Most of my friends had very similar experiences - projects failing, running into major roadblocks, losing confidence entirely, etc...

But, the good news is, everyone has either graduated already (those who were ahead of me) or will graduate, and so far, amongst my friends, none of us will take longer than 5.5 years to finish.

I don''t know how to describe it, but at some point it will just "click" and you''ll have your story from your research, and suddenly the rest will seem do-able, not easy necessarily, but just possible.

 

[katamari]

Good news, everyone! I just found out that I won a summer research fellowship!

It will allow me to work on my dissertation this summer without having to teach or find another job, which is awesome. I also get to travel to go to a methods workshop and present my findings at our national conference (which I was already attending, but still). I just wanted to share my excitement!

How is everything going with everyone else?


p.s. AG: You are almost done with grad school!

 

[walletnotonfire]

Date: 3/30/2009 12:47:24 PM
Author: katamari
Good news, everyone! I just found out that I won a summer research fellowship!

It will allow me to work on my dissertation this summer without having to teach or find another job, which is awesome. I also get to travel to go to a methods workshop and present my findings at our national conference (which I was already attending, but still). I just wanted to share my excitement!


How is everything going with everyone else?



p.s. AG: You are almost done with grad school!

Congrats katamari, always nice to get fellowship money! I finished my PhD in June 2008, now postdoc''ing. Amazingly, I''m still working on submitting manuscripts for publication. Two more to go (the current one has been bounced by 2 journals already

!!). Hopefully everything gets out before I finish my postdoc! Some unsolicited advice - get your thesis chapters out there for publication sooner than later, it seems like they always end up on the back-burner and dang am I busy with my postdoc... and, *wow*, its hard to remember things I did 1-2 years ago!!!

Congrats again!

-walletnotonfire

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 3/30/2009 12:47:24 PM
Author: katamari
Good news, everyone! I just found out that I won a summer research fellowship!

It will allow me to work on my dissertation this summer without having to teach or find another job, which is awesome. I also get to travel to go to a methods workshop and present my findings at our national conference (which I was already attending, but still). I just wanted to share my excitement!


How is everything going with everyone else?



p.s. AG: You are almost done with grad school!

katamari - CONGRATS on the fellowship, that is awesome!!!

I am *almost* done - still have to schedule my final presentation, but I should be (hopefully!) wrapping up my final experiments by the end of this month. I''ve submitted one of two papers, and the final experiments will be going into the second one, which I''m hoping to submit ASAP. I''ll walking the graduation ceremony May 15th, though my official graduation date will be when I file my dissertation, probably sometime in late June.

Lots to do, but I know somehow it will all get done!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 3/31/2009 12:46:37 AM
Author: walletnotonfire

Congrats katamari, always nice to get fellowship money! I finished my PhD in June 2008, now postdoc''ing. Amazingly, I''m still working on submitting manuscripts for publication. Two more to go (the current one has been bounced by 2 journals already

!!). Hopefully everything gets out before I finish my postdoc! Some unsolicited advice - get your thesis chapters out there for publication sooner than later, it seems like they always end up on the back-burner and dang am I busy with my postdoc... and, *wow*, its hard to remember things I did 1-2 years ago!!!

Congrats again!

-walletnotonfire

wallet - congrats on finishing your PhD

What did you study, if you don''t mind me asking? Welcome to the thread

 

[walletnotonfire]

Amber - my PhD is in Oceanography! More on the biology and chemistry side of it.

Good luck wrapping things up and with your defense! I remember seeing the light at the end of the tunnel

 

[katamari]

Date: 3/31/2009 12:46:37 AM
Author: walletnotonfire

Congrats katamari, always nice to get fellowship money! I finished my PhD in June 2008, now postdoc''ing. Amazingly, I''m still working on submitting manuscripts for publication. Two more to go (the current one has been bounced by 2 journals already

!!). Hopefully everything gets out before I finish my postdoc! Some unsolicited advice - get your thesis chapters out there for publication sooner than later, it seems like they always end up on the back-burner and dang am I busy with my postdoc... and, *wow*, its hard to remember things I did 1-2 years ago!!!

Congrats again!

-walletnotonfire

Thanks, wallet! It is great to see a new face checking in on the researcher forum! I have actually been debating on sending out chapters or hoarding them for tenure. Some schools count your dissertation (and what becomes of it) toward tenure and others don''t. But, I could also very much see how I would want to move on with my research (and, more importantly, get the heck away from my dissertation data) and start new projects. This is great advice!

How is postdocing? Is it a necessity in your field? I have been thinking about taking one (assuming I would get it--they are very scarce in sociology), but part of me is also anxious about moving on with my life and finally knowing where I can settle down. I would love to hear what you think about yours.